it was a nigh-on impossible save even if he stood a meter to the left
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it was a nigh-on impossible save even if he stood a meter to the leftMaybe if he goes with his top hand, which many people would say is the wrong hand he might get there. Like that Mata one years ago. That's a big maybe.
Sometimes you have to just accept it was a quality strike. Power, dip and swerve, not many keepers are saving that, even if they are right under whereit hits the bar.
DDG made some great saves tonight…gutted for him.
Free kick was unstoppable for a keeper to save.
Free kick was unstoppable for a keeper to save.
It was a good save in the first half but the freekick we conceded which was ultimately costly, came about because De Gea decided to hoof it long and from the resulting possession loss, Crystal Palace advanced forward and won the freekick. There was a simple pass on but he decided to kick it long.
He's just not a keeper for a coach who wants to implement positional play and dominate the first phase of the build up.
He's just not a keeper for a coach who wants to implement positional play and dominate the first phase of the build up.
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Made a couple of excellent saves tonight, I won’t blame him for the goal it was just brilliant free kick, a freak goal you can’t do anything about.
Won us a point imo. Nothing he could have done about that FK.
Wow, anything to put him on the chopping block. You could argued that the 2 midfielder could have done better with the aerial balls as well as fault Shaw for committing the foul. You chose to go beyond those and blame it on De Gea for hoofing.
I won't blame him for the free kick and he did make two great saves but the guy is tragic with crosses. There was one which was high in the air for ages and he stayed rooted to his line. His kicking is also way below par.
You can trace every goal back to a mistake somewhere, yes he made a couple of saves. But it's those situations where his lack of composure on the ball and the inevitable aimless hoof costs the team possession the ability to control the ball to see out the game.
People could see that Ronaldo's style of play was a problem at the other end of the pitch, even though he scored some crucial goals. Others ignored the problems and claimed his goals were all that mattered.
DDG for all his saves, his reactive style overall just doesn't suit how the team style is evolving. Some people can see it, others choose to ignore it and focus on the few really good saves and say he's not a problem.
Did I just read above someone blaming him for the goal This place
This placeBlaming him for the goal conceded would be insanely harsh, as is being overly critical of him at all given how crucial that save was.
That said, the point about his distribution above is well made. It's easy to ignore when it doesn't lead to a goal but every time he gives the ball away or we have to boot it long where another keeper would have allow us to keep possession, it hurts the team slightly. And over a season those slight hurts add up to goals not scored, goals conceded and us being on the back-foot in crucial periods of games. We saw it against City as well where in one of the toughest games his distribution hampered us. That's why the best teams in the league have keepers with better distribution than DGG.
That said, the point about his distribution above is well made. It's easy to ignore when it doesn't lead to a goal but every time he gives the ball away or we have to boot it long where another keeper would have allow us to keep possession, it hurts the team slightly. And over a season those slight hurts add up to goals not scored, goals conceded and us being on the back-foot in crucial periods of games. We saw it against City as well where in one of the toughest games his distribution hampered us. That's why the best teams in the league have keepers with better distribution than DGG.
Felt so bad for him - we was in one of those moods where nothing was going to get past him. Did his best but that goal was something else
So, so good.
It's insane. Being blamed for hoofing a ball from a pass back when he was being closed down, that ended in the opposition's half. People are braindead.Did I just read above someone blaming him for the goal
If your blaming anyone blame rashford for not challenging the header. He stood and watched.
I just can't take RedCafe seriously when it comes to De Gea and Bruno. The forum is reasonable when it comes to the other players, but not these two.
I think the forum has become obsessed with versatility. There are only two acceptable roles now: versatile possession-machine and super-direct attacker with blistering pace and lots of goals. And the last one is basically just Mbappe.
Was great to be honest and that free kick ws almost inch perfect.
He did his part and made crucial saves earlier to keep us ahead (which is impressive seeing how little he had to do for most of it's duration) but that's life, sometime you can't do anything about conceding a goal or two.
He did his part and made crucial saves earlier to keep us ahead (which is impressive seeing how little he had to do for most of it's duration) but that's life, sometime you can't do anything about conceding a goal or two.
Wtf is Rashford doing there? It is 90th minute and he decides the best thing is to fully give up on challenging the ball and watch.
He's my MotM. Can't believe how people just can't appreciate him with those incredible saves, which are as good as a goal or two scored at the other end. A striker scores a tap in? Wheyyy.. give him a lifetime contract!! A Gk did incredible saves?? but... his passing!!
He saved guaranteed goals which would have pegged us back earlier.
We became collectively knackered and possibly brain-dead after about 70 mins. Nothing to do with De Gea.
We became collectively knackered and possibly brain-dead after about 70 mins. Nothing to do with De Gea.
Close but AWB was man of the match, that last ditch tackle amongst others was tackle of the season.
People criticising the aimless hoof to nobody aren't wrong, it gave up possession at a critical stage of the game while there was a very simple pass to Martinez on that pretty well every other goalkeeper in the Premier League plays in their sleep. It's not the first instance either, this has been an issue in his game for years, how many times did he give the ball away on Saturday by just aimlessly lumping it up field? Half the time in the past it has even ended up with him getting credit for making a brilliant save like Brighton at home last year when everyone just casually ignored that the person that initially fecked up and gave the ball away was him. It is a detail that won't be lost on Ten Hag who strives for control and was very critical of the team as a whole for not managing the game better.
He's a poor goalkeeper in terms of managing a game because he doesn't do any of the things most goalkeepers do to alleviate pressure on their defenders such as coming out to claim crosses or being a genuine option in possession. To be fair to him he has been better this season at sweeping behind the defence but in reality he hasn't had to do much of it because we sit with one of the deepest lines in the league for no reason other than to protect him and ensure that all he has to do is make saves; which is fine to a point, but long term won't work because you can't fully control games by playing as spread out as we have to.
I don't think anyone has criticised him for not stopping the free kick btw, which was both perfectly struck and taken from six yards closer to the goal than it should have been. Had the free kick been taken from the correct place there is next to no chance Olise would have shot, it would have been just another cross into the box that up to that point we'd been defending by are large ok.
He's a poor goalkeeper in terms of managing a game because he doesn't do any of the things most goalkeepers do to alleviate pressure on their defenders such as coming out to claim crosses or being a genuine option in possession. To be fair to him he has been better this season at sweeping behind the defence but in reality he hasn't had to do much of it because we sit with one of the deepest lines in the league for no reason other than to protect him and ensure that all he has to do is make saves; which is fine to a point, but long term won't work because you can't fully control games by playing as spread out as we have to.
I don't think anyone has criticised him for not stopping the free kick btw, which was both perfectly struck and taken from six yards closer to the goal than it should have been. Had the free kick been taken from the correct place there is next to no chance Olise would have shot, it would have been just another cross into the box that up to that point we'd been defending by are large ok.
I thought the wall was a bit short myself but then I considered that Palace might have some big players up for the set piece so that was probably the best option.
Should have had someone taller in the wall & the tallest should have been on the near post side. I would have given up winning a soft, slow cross that wouldn’t have been headed on goal with much power for a taller wall positioned properly. Should have gone top hand too.
But even doing those two things wouldn’t have saved a shot that went in off the crossbar. Some shots are simply perfect & thwart even the best of plans.
Yeah the problem with that is then you have shorties like Fred trying to win a header. And we have a propensity to give away those kinds of goals in the last few seasons.
As you say, stunner of a free kick. Probably not much point in wondering if anything could have prevented it.
I mean, I get that De Gea isn't good with his feet, but blaming him for going long in the 90th minute is weak at best. I'd get it if he tried to go long, miskicked it to an opposing player in our half that then scored shortly after. Conceeding posession in the other half with the entire team behind the ball should not be problem really. It's also pretty common that keepers go more long in the last minutes, when the opponents chases a goal more and more intensely.
The most annoying thing in that clip by far is Rashford fecking standing still on the half way line while the ball drops out of the sky a few yards away from him. WTF?!
Yep and making no attempt for the second ball either.
McT standing still and watching the whole thing develop without even making a token effort to get back and defend is equally annoying, mind you.
This is some serious clutching, it has to be said.
In fairness, Ronaldo was our top scorer last season and third highest scorer in the league but there was still debate about whether that outweighed the weaknesses in his broader game.
It isn't clutching at all but rather you being one of many posters/fans who refuses to see his short comings when it comes to keeping the ball.
I've already pointed out his mistake in not passing the ball to Martinez and instead kicking it long to concede possession. But another thing that needs pointing out, is that he kicked the ball vertically and should've kicked the ball to the side of the pitch instead, which is what most sensible keepers would've done in that situation if they were going to go long. I would've understood if we still had Weghorst on the pitch, but it was silly to kick it long into the middle of the pitch where Crystal Palace were the favourites to win the aerial duel against Rashford, who has never been known to do well in those duels.
I've seen posts in the past making excuses for De Gea due to the CBs he's had infront him and how those CBs hinder his passing. In the game yesterday he had one of the best ball playing CB's next to him and decided to kick it long instead. And instead of United being in possession via a short pass to Martinez, De Gea's decision to hoof it long vertically puts us in a position where we're second favourites to win the second ball because Rashford is weak in that scenario. Keeping the ball is the key in those situations and his decision to hoof it long vertically instead of passing it to Martinez cost us.
If De Gea had saved the freekick, most of you would've been saying how he's saving us, when in reality he's the one who was the cause of Crystal Palace winning the freekick in the first instance.
Erik ten Hag is a head coach/manager who wants to dominate all phases of play with the aim of playing in the opponent's half. We aren't going to do that if our keeper is weak with the ball at his feet for the level we aspire to be at.
Rashford and Bruno were the two worst players on the pitch imo. But that doesn't mean I'm going to overlook the keeper's contribution in us conceding the equalising goal. De Gea is weak at multiple facets of goal keeping and the game has passed him by. And I'm only discussing his short comings when it comes to his ability on the ball and not his other glaring weaknesses.
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To those who felt the hoof cost us the win: the way we were playing in the last 20 minutes of the match, do you honestly feel like we would have been better off in him passing it short to a player, and for us to then play comfortable possession football after?
If it wasn't him that lumped it forward, it would have been another and a similar situation would arise. Our midfield was clumsy in dealing with the first header as they looped it back easily enough for us to deal with calmly.
They pressed hard like most teams do in the final minutes, and the outfield players did not deal with it. A ridiculous blame on a player who kept us a point instead of losing the match.
If it wasn't him that lumped it forward, it would have been another and a similar situation would arise. Our midfield was clumsy in dealing with the first header as they looped it back easily enough for us to deal with calmly.
They pressed hard like most teams do in the final minutes, and the outfield players did not deal with it. A ridiculous blame on a player who kept us a point instead of losing the match.
I don't refuse to see his shortcomings, I agree De Gea needs replacing but pinning the blame solely on him for that goal when there were multiple opportunities to clean that up is harsh. If Diogo Costa or whatever other flavour of the month keeper plays that same ball, I doubt anyone makes a big thing of it at all.
I don't subscribe to the belief De Gea is saving us either. He's done okay this season but there are elements to his game which need improving, those include his kicking. We can certainly do better in that regard but there's more nuance than De Gea = bad. A lot of things went badly in that second half, that kick is a strange thing to come away from the game with as your main takeaway for dropping points.
Nobody has said he is solely to blame. @Adnan has pointed out that none of the following issues would have arisen had De Gea not aimlessly hoofed the ball forward and instead played the very simple pass to Martinez.
There is a big difference between the blame lying solely with De Gea and the situation not arising had De Gea not hoofed the ball forward.
We didn't play well in the second half yesterday but we hadn't conceded up to that stage, and had De Gea given the ball to Martinez rather than hitting it up to nobody, that particular situation that they scored from would not have happened.
Which if we are being honest is fine is the team is setup to deal with the situation like that. In the dying minutes of games where you are winning 1-0, playing it safe, keeping the ball and running down the clock is the ideal, but not always possible. Long aimless punts that lose the ball just invites more pressure.
We'd all be mad if a player ran up the line and crossed the ball and it came straight back down the other end for a goal.
That forward is not 100% at fault for the goal, but with a bit of cleverness and composure it's avoidable. He could have played for the corner or turned and played back. I see this as no different.
If you look at that clip, Martinez drops out to look for the pass and it should have been played to him, he wasn't under that much pressure. It wasn't and a long needless and aimless hoof down the middle of the field came straight back and cost a goal. He's not 100% at fault for it, but its a situation that is avoidable by him being more composed and playing the easy pass that was on to keep the ball.
There were plenty of occasions in that game where our outfield players were loose in possession as well though. Palace were pressing high as well, him playing that pass to Martinez doesn't necessarily equate to us winning the game.
I get that there's an issue with De Gea but I don't think that particular instance was one you use as justification for that. I've seen plenty of ball playing goalkeepers make worse and more rash mistakes than that. I genuinely think if any of Alisson, Ederson or Ramsdale made a kick like that and an opposing team scored, nobody would be blaming the result on the goalkeeper.
But those occasions didn't lead directly to a goal. I agree, the players didn't play well and frankly I'd say a draw was a fair result. But the fact remains that we had gone 89 minutes without conceding, De Gea aimlessly kicked the ball long instead of giving the ball to an available defender who was showing for the ball under no pressure, which led to them regaining possession and scoring a goal. Nobody is blaming the result specifically on De Gea but it's an inarguable fact that had he played the easy pass to Martinez that exact scenario would not have played out the way it did. The three goalkeepers you mentioned all make the simple pass in that instance. Even the less technical goalkeepers in the league make that pass, it was that simple, and if they don't then they still don't just aimlessly hit it high in the air, they basically aim for over the top of the full backs heads to make them turn round to collect possession.
That doesn't mean any errors from individuals after that were not contributing factors, it just allowed them to regain possession in a spell where we needed to regain some composure going into stoppage time. I was there yesterday, it didn't feel overly nervy despite them having opportunities; we were unconventional but seeing the game out. It was just an unnecessary thing to do as more often than not that kind of clearance in the late stages just creates panic, regardless of whether it's goalkeeper or a defender doing it. As I've said in this thread already the biggest issue I have is with the referee because if the free kick was taken from the correct position, Olise isn't shooting, it'd just have been another cross into the box which the defence had been dealing with relatively well. I cannot fathom how a referee can allow a free kick in such a critical position to be taken 6 yards away from where the foul took place.
I'm not solely blaming him, because I feel there was other players who were far worse. But I thought I'd give those particular player performance threads a wide berth due to what was developing in those threads.
I'm not particularly worried about our final third players because I'm of the firm belief that until we rectify the problems in the defensive and middle thirds of the pitch, we won't effectively transition/build play through those thirds. And the goalkeeper is important in that regard because his role is of the 11th outfield player in possesion. And unfortunately we don't really have that option currently, and it's a option that's important for any head coach who wants to exert control in the build up phase.
And on top of that it would be great to see a keeper who is also authoritative when it comes to commanding his box.
Yeah, that's true in general season. But I was talking about after the game, between a striker scores two taps in vs a Gk pulls off two excellent saves.
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