He really is superb.
David Luiz
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Can’t wait to hear what Ken Early made of that.
There was also a stat that Cech conceded more goals vs Liverpool at Arsenal in three years than he ever did with us.
Damn, that's like 4 red cards and 8 penalties over the course of a season
I don't watch him in Ligue 1 regularly. However, I do remember he conceded a penalty in his last PSG game which was may be about a week before Chelsea signed him back in 2016. He's a defender who is gifted with good physical attribute and has technique to play the ball from the back. But when if it's about defending, very average. Lack of concentration, no anticipation skills, doesn't know how to read the situation when he needs to make tackle & poor positioning. If he's not capable to play from the back, he would never even stand a chance to play for top team.Damn, that's like 4 red cards and 8 penalties over the course of a season
Wasn't he subbed at half time in a defeat v Palace and basically blacklisted by Mourinho afterwards? Think he went to PSG that summer.
I agree his best prem season was 16/17. With his type of kamikaze defending you need to play in a 3 and he had two alongside him in Cahill and Azpilcueta who love last ditch blocks and defending deeper so ideal combination. Playing him in a flat back 4 with full backs pushing right up is madness as has been shown time and again.
Yep your timeline is spot on. Frankly it was a bit ludicrous that Mourinho had started with such a defensive midfield given he was facing a Tony Pulis Palace side but hindsight is 20/20.
His career in the PL is finished, I think. Two games ban (1 for straight red, 1 for 2nd red card offence) means his contract will be up and they won't look at renewing his contract.
wants to stay at arsenal
Don't see why they signed him. Would have been better to go with a defender with genuine potential at.. defending.
There are some people who have little problems in "fronting up" and admitting their mistakes because it feeds into their egos of looking good and appearing to be a big man. I think Luiz is one of them. He pulled the same shit post 7-1 Germany.
Helps little when you don't learn from your mistakes.
How does a defender who can't defend play for so many top clubs and get transferred for so much?
Manager after manager seems to pick him too. He's a bit overrated on the ball and that seems to fool a lot of managers into playing him.
He's a product of the "ball playing defender" hype.
Only recently people started to remember that defenders, first and foremost, need to be good at defending.
He's been mostly very good his entire career. That's why so many managers buy him and play him.
Do you honestly think fans have some insight and that Mourinho, Ancelotti, Benitez, Conte and Sarri were all "fooled" into playing him?
When he's bad, he's really, really bad of course but all of the managers he has played under think that the positives outweigh the negatives.
What am absolute clown, always has been. Very average footballer and a shit defender to boot. Love seeing him struggle the cheating bastard.
Jose sold him after one season, Benitez played him in defensive midfield, Conte used him in a similar role in a back 3. Pretty much all of these managers knew that he was constantly one concentration lapse away from costing them a game.
Cahill & Terry were pretty much Mourinho's preference pair. I still remember Ancelotti's face of how furious he was to Luiz after Chicharito scored early goal against Chelsea in 2011. Benitez was just an interim manager, playing with whatever he got fit.
Both Conte & Sarri played him because his ball playing skill. And credit on Conte to be able to use him at his best by protecting him with Cahill on his left, Azpilicueta on his right and two defensive mind midfielder Matic & Kante in front of him, can't ask better way to make one centre back looks decent defensively. If Arsenal has those four players, bet Luiz would look decent last night.
He’s basically the central defensive version of Paul Pogba, isn’t he?
They all picked him though.
As for Jose selling him, we received a crazy offer for a player that could be replaced, he wasn't dropped and transfer listed.
Not sure where is the comparison. Pogba is a midfielder and his primary job as a midfielder is to create something, which he's good at it. Luiz is a defender, his job is to defend, which he's not good at it.
The comparison couldn’t be more obvious. Re-read the post of yours I quoted. Especially the bit about Conte.
Luiz needed Cahill, Azpi, Kante & Matic to make him looks decent while Pogba needed Kante to make France won World Cup. I don't think you can see the difference.
Pogba didn’t “make France win” anything. He had a few good games. Luiz under Conte showed a much more sustained run of good performances.
That’s beside the point. The comparison is obvious but you’re ignoring it. Talented footballers, capable of great performances but with huge flaws in their games that managers have to bend over backwards to try and accommodate in their team. With many failing to do this. Including Jose Mourinho.
It's so easy to say they all picked him without looking at the bigger picture why they picked him.
Man, that's like saying Luiz = Smalling. Every of our managers picked Smalling. Even during Ole's last season, Smalling played lot of games under Ole, guess what happened this season? Loaned out to Roma.
That's not the point though. The point was Pogba needed Kante next to him to give him support like how KDB needed Fernandinho/Gundogan or like how Scholes needed Carrick/Keane. While Luiz needed Cahill, Azpi, Kante & Matic to hide his poor defensive ability, a centre back who needs to play in 5 defense system and two defensive mid in front of him to hide his weakness.
And Smalling is also a good player.
Most of us throw around "he's shit" as a joke but it does seem some think Luiz is genuinely a bad player who has bluffed his way into a career at the top of the game, which is bonkers.
I'm honestly baffled that he's played as a defender though. He's just not that good at defending whereas the other parts of his game is actually good other than him losing concentration at he worst time possible.
I never say Smalling is a bad player though. Smalling never being overrated like how people overrated Luiz. People give credit to Smalling where he deserves, Luiz got credit that he doesn't deserve as a centre back. The argument or discussion between us pretty much sums up, your reason about Luiz is being picked by his managers is the only thing you can come out with, it just really doesn't justify enough to defend the over-credit he received.
That was a very entertaining sitcom last night till the ref spoiled it with the red card.
Can link to a post or article where Luiz gets a lot of credit that you think he does not deserve? He's the most criticised defender I can think of.
Oh please, let's not pretend you never heard once.
The guy was one point labelled as world class centre back & even named in PFA TOTY. Are you telling me this guy was a world class? I even mentioned how Conte was able to hide his poor defensive ability by playing him with Azpi & Cahill on his right & left side with two defensive mid in front of him in 5 defenders formation which made people believe he was the best PL centre back in 16/17. And 50m for someone who is always known to be poor with his defensive aspect.
Just watch the Sky Sport video post today's match. The presenter David Jones even mentioned about Luiz under Conte. Even if Arsenal has the Luiz under Conte, they'll still have the same Luiz who is poor in defending.
Even Arsenal fans thought they got such a star & bargain for Luiz. The reality is that they helped Chelsea getting rid the deadwood.
Aye. He was great with the protection afforded by two centre-halves flanking him and that central spot capitalised on his passing range. In previous eras sometimes classy ball players (Schuster, Thon, Hoddle, even Sammer) would drop back into that middle role in the back three, but no manager would ever have gambled with them in the middle of a back four.
Leaving the system aside, you can sort of see the rationale behind PSG buying him, when they typically have 70% possession and only have to defend for a few minutes per game. Still flawed though because the critical 180 minutes in PSG's season come when they are in a battle with another equally stacked side at the business end of the Champions League. And that's when they need proper defenders with backbone to get them over the line.
Mustafi and Luiz in Central defence must be the maddest idea in PL history. Can't think of such a similar mad pairing. Even worse when your team is an attacking one, and gets caught on counters.
Maybe new thread material for who the worst centerback pairings in PL history is?
Maybe new thread material for who the worst centerback pairings in PL history is?
He's like one of those eccentric forwards that needs to play in a free role, with no instruction to thrive.
In the 'free' role in a 3 man central defence for Chelsea, he was superb. But put him marking someone in a 2 man pairing and he's just a car-crash.
In the 'free' role in a 3 man central defence for Chelsea, he was superb. But put him marking someone in a 2 man pairing and he's just a car-crash.
I see him play and think "sideshow Bob".... and not just for the hair.
Smalling is actually a decent defender though, as evidenced at Roma.
Worst than Titus Bramble and Boumsong?