Kag
Full Member
He really is superb.
I don't watch him in Ligue 1 regularly. However, I do remember he conceded a penalty in his last PSG game which was may be about a week before Chelsea signed him back in 2016. He's a defender who is gifted with good physical attribute and has technique to play the ball from the back. But when if it's about defending, very average. Lack of concentration, no anticipation skills, doesn't know how to read the situation when he needs to make tackle & poor positioning. If he's not capable to play from the back, he would never even stand a chance to play for top team.Damn, that's like 4 red cards and 8 penalties over the course of a season
Wasn't he subbed at half time in a defeat v Palace and basically blacklisted by Mourinho afterwards? Think he went to PSG that summer.He was overall decent - the spell you're referring to was in 2013-14 under Mourinho. During the second half of the season he and Matic were a formidable physical partnership, but in some ways this seemed to exacerbate some of his worst tendencies - he was not diligent in tracking back (especially against poorer opposition), he was prone to taking silly shots & wasting possession, and he never really learned how to pass and move to allow for quick combinations. Given his physical attributes, he'd be best served as a deep lying regista / sweeper, but the problem is he has never been disciplined enough defensively to stay back and play patiently (at least at that point in his career).
That said, he was undeniably brilliant at the heart of Chelsea's 3 man defense in 16/17, and had seemingly learned to play more conservatively & within the team structure. I will always content though that his late stage career was altered by the horrendous challenge Aguero put in on him at the end of the 3-1 Chelsea win at the Etihad - his knee was never the same and he lost so much of the pace & aerial ability that allowed him to recover from some of his rash decision-making.
Yep your timeline is spot on. Frankly it was a bit ludicrous that Mourinho had started with such a defensive midfield given he was facing a Tony Pulis Palace side but hindsight is 20/20.Wasn't he subbed at half time in a defeat v Palace and basically blacklisted by Mourinho afterwards? Think he went to PSG that summer.
I agree his best prem season was 16/17. With his type of kamikaze defending you need to play in a 3 and he had two alongside him in Cahill and Azpilcueta who love last ditch blocks and defending deeper so ideal combination. Playing him in a flat back 4 with full backs pushing right up is madness as has been shown time and again.
There are some people who have little problems in "fronting up" and admitting their mistakes because it feeds into their egos of looking good and appearing to be a big man. I think Luiz is one of them. He pulled the same shit post 7-1 Germany.
wants to stay at arsenal
Manager after manager seems to pick him too. He's a bit overrated on the ball and that seems to fool a lot of managers into playing him.How does a defender who can't defend play for so many top clubs and get transferred for so much?
He's a product of the "ball playing defender" hype.I don't watch him in Ligue 1 regularly. However, I do remember he conceded a penalty in his last PSG game which was may be about a week before Chelsea signed him back in 2016. He's a defender who is gifted with good physical attribute and has technique to play the ball from the back. But when if it's about defending, very average. Lack of concentration, no anticipation skills, doesn't know how to read the situation when he needs to make tackle & poor positioning. If he's not capable to play from the back, he would never even stand a chance to play for top team.
He's been mostly very good his entire career. That's why so many managers buy him and play him.Manager after manager seems to pick him too. He's a bit overrated on the ball and that seems to fool a lot of managers into playing him.
Jose sold him after one season, Benitez played him in defensive midfield, Conte used him in a similar role in a back 3. Pretty much all of these managers knew that he was constantly one concentration lapse away from costing them a game.He's been mostly very good his entire career. That's why so many managers buy him and play him.
Do you honestly think fans have some insight and that Mourinho, Ancelotti, Benitez, Conte and Sarri were all "fooled" into playing him?
When he's bad, he's really, really bad of course but all of the managers he has played under think that the positives outweigh the negatives.
Cahill & Terry were pretty much Mourinho's preference pair. I still remember Ancelotti's face of how furious he was to Luiz after Chicharito scored early goal against Chelsea in 2011. Benitez was just an interim manager, playing with whatever he got fit.He's been mostly very good his entire career. That's why so many managers buy him and play him.
Do you honestly think fans have some insight and that Mourinho, Ancelotti, Benitez, Conte and Sarri were all "fooled" into playing him?
When he's bad, he's really, really bad of course but all of the managers he has played under think that the positives outweigh the negatives.
He’s basically the central defensive version of Paul Pogba, isn’t he?Cahill & Terry were pretty much Mourinho's preference pair. I still remember Ancelotti's face of how furious he was to Luiz after Chicharito scored early goal against Chelsea in 2011. Benitez was just an interim manager, playing with whatever he got fit.
Both Conte & Sarri played him because his ball playing skill. And credit on Conte to be able to use him at his best by protecting him with Cahill on his left, Azpilicueta on his right and two defensive mind midfielder Matic & Kante in front of him, can't ask better way to make one centre back looks decent defensively. If Arsenal has those four players, bet Luiz would look decent last night.
They all picked him though.Jose sold him after one season, Benitez played him in defensive midfield, Conte used him in a similar role in a back 3. Pretty much all of these managers knew that he was constantly one concentration lapse away from costing them a game.
Not sure where is the comparison. Pogba is a midfielder and his primary job as a midfielder is to create something, which he's good at it. Luiz is a defender, his job is to defend, which he's not good at it.He’s basically the central defensive version of Paul Pogba, isn’t he?
The comparison couldn’t be more obvious. Re-read the post of yours I quoted. Especially the bit about Conte.Not sure where is the comparison. Pogba is a midfielder and his primary job as a midfielder is to create something, which he's good at it. Luiz is a defender, his job is to defend, which he's not good at it.
Luiz needed Cahill, Azpi, Kante & Matic to make him looks decent while Pogba needed Kante to make France won World Cup. I don't think you can see the difference.The comparison couldn’t be more obvious. Re-read the post of yours I quoted. Especially the bit about Conte.
Pogba didn’t “make France win” anything. He had a few good games. Luiz under Conte showed a much more sustained run of good performances.Luiz needed Cahill, Azpi, Kante & Matic to make him looks decent while Pogba needed Kante to make France won World Cup. I don't think you can see the difference.
It's so easy to say they all picked him without looking at the bigger picture why they picked him.They all picked him though.
As for Jose selling him, we received a crazy offer for a player that could be replaced, he wasn't dropped and transfer listed.
That's not the point though. The point was Pogba needed Kante next to him to give him support like how KDB needed Fernandinho/Gundogan or like how Scholes needed Carrick/Keane. While Luiz needed Cahill, Azpi, Kante & Matic to hide his poor defensive ability, a centre back who needs to play in 5 defense system and two defensive mid in front of him to hide his weakness.Pogba didn’t “make France win” anything. He had a few good games. Luiz under Conte showed a much more sustained run of good performances.
And Smalling is also a good player.It's so easy to say they all picked him without looking at the bigger picture why they picked him.
Man, that's like saying Luiz = Smalling. Every of our managers picked Smalling. Even during Ole's last season, Smalling played lot of games under Ole, guess what happened this season? Loaned out to Roma.
I'm honestly baffled that he's played as a defender though. He's just not that good at defending whereas the other parts of his game is actually good other than him losing concentration at he worst time possible.And Smalling is also a good player.
Most of us throw around "he's shit" as a joke but it does seem some think Luiz is genuinely a bad player who has bluffed his way into a career at the top of the game, which is bonkers.
I never say Smalling is a bad player though. Smalling never being overrated like how people overrated Luiz. People give credit to Smalling where he deserves, Luiz got credit that he doesn't deserve as a centre back. The argument or discussion between us pretty much sums up, your reason about Luiz is being picked by his managers is the only thing you can come out with, it just really doesn't justify enough to defend the over-credit he received.And Smalling is also a good player.
Most of us throw around "he's shit" as a joke but it does seem some think Luiz is genuinely a bad player who has bluffed his way into a career at the top of the game, which is bonkers.
Can link to a post or article where Luiz gets a lot of credit that you think he does not deserve? He's the most criticised defender I can think of.I never say Smalling is a bad player though. Smalling never being overrated like how people overrated Luiz. People give credit to Smalling where he deserves, Luiz got credit that he doesn't deserve as a centre back. The argument or discussion between us pretty much sums up, your reason about Luiz is being picked by his managers is the only thing you can come out with, it just really doesn't justify enough to defend the over-credit he received.
except maybe Mustafi.Can link to a post or article where Luiz gets a lot of credit that you think he does not deserve? He's the most criticised defender I can think of.
Oh please, let's not pretend you never heard once.Can link to a post or article where Luiz gets a lot of credit that you think he does not deserve? He's the most criticised defender I can think of.
Aye. He was great with the protection afforded by two centre-halves flanking him and that central spot capitalised on his passing range. In previous eras sometimes classy ball players (Schuster, Thon, Hoddle, even Sammer) would drop back into that middle role in the back three, but no manager would ever have gambled with them in the middle of a back four.Wasn't he subbed at half time in a defeat v Palace and basically blacklisted by Mourinho afterwards? Think he went to PSG that summer.
I agree his best prem season was 16/17. With his type of kamikaze defending you need to play in a 3 and he had two alongside him in Cahill and Azpilcueta who love last ditch blocks and defending deeper so ideal combination. Playing him in a flat back 4 with full backs pushing right up is madness as has been shown time and again.
Oh yes.Smalling never being overrated like how people overrated Luiz.
Smalling is actually a decent defender though, as evidenced at Roma.
Worst than Titus Bramble and Boumsong?Mustafi and Luiz in Central defence must be the maddest idea in PL history. Can't think of such a similar mad pairing. Even worse when your team is an attacking one, and gets caught on counters.
Maybe new thread material for who the worst centerback pairings in PL history is?