[MadMike]

Really hope he has a good season next year.

He's technically better than anyone we have in the CM area and has been criminally underused this year.

I'm a massive Ole fan, but one thing I would pick up on is his reluctance to shift from the Fred/McTominey pairing. He's played it way too safe for way too long with these two as a pair, and Donny hasn't got a sniff bar odd minutes here and there.

I really feel for Donny, a tough first year. He's gone from an assured starter at a title challenging team who always have a decent champions league run to watching from the stands. Yes, utd is a big step up but he's got to be kicking himself after a frustrating year.

When he has played - he's been used in different positions and not had a run of games to establish himself. When he's used like this, how can he ever find any form?

Hoping he plays more with Fred as a CM. While he can play the #10 role - I dont think the counter style we prefer overly suits him - he's come from a very technical possession based Ajax team. He has to play deeper in more of an #8 role for me - where his passing/vision/technical ability will stand out. He's streets ahead of both Fred and certainly Mctominey when it comes to using the ball. McTominey spends half his life moving OUT of space to avoid getting the ball. Donny is a much better footballer than both combined.

He needs to play - end of.

No. He hasn't even come close to earning it.

He's not better than Pogba or Fernandes for the more creative roles in midfield and he doesn't bring the work rate, physicality and defensive contributions of Fred or McTominay.

If Ole felt he could get away with only one defensive-minded CM, Pogba would still play next to them ahead of VdB. But Ole clearly feels he needs two water-carriers when he plays 4-2-3-1 with 4 attacking players out there (Cavani - Rashford - Fernandes - Greenwood) to balance things out. VdB is not a water carrier and he can't be.

Also his playstyle doesn't suit us. He's a possession based player that likes to play short give-and-go passes and moving into space. He's neither fast, nor very direct, nor a great runner with the ball. Which are all good attributes for a team playing counter attacking football. Pogba is fast, a great runner with the ball and a sublime crosser with both feet. Fernandes is not very fast but very direct always looking for balls over the top or through the defence and making great runs into the box. Both are much more suited to counter attacking football than Donny. Our wingers are inside forwards (Rashford and Greewood) who at better running behind defences than they are at playing with ball at feet. They are also suited to counter attacking football. Long story short I don't see us changing the way we play any time soon, not for VdB anyway.

He's a decent player but a square peg in a round hole. He was just the wrong acquisition, which wasn't his fault. I think it's best for both parties he moves on.

 

[youmeletsfly]

No. He hasn't even come close to earning it.

He's not better than Pogba or Fernandes for the more creative roles in midfield and he doesn't bring the work rate, physicality and defensive contributions of Fred or McTominay.

If Ole felt he could get away with only one defensive-minded CM, Pogba would still play next to them ahead of VdB. But Ole clearly feels he needs two water-carriers when he plays 4-2-3-1 with 4 attacking players out there (Cavani - Rashford - Fernandes - Greenwood) to balance things out. VdB is not a water carrier and he can't be.

Also his playstyle doesn't suit us. He's a possession based player that likes to play short give-and-go passes and moving into space. He's neither fast, nor very direct, nor a great runner with the ball. Which are all good attributes for a team playing counter attacking football. Pogba is fast, a great runner with the ball and a sublime crosser with both feet. Fernandes is not very fast but very direct always looking for balls over the top or through the defence and making great runs into the box. Both are much more suited to counter attacking football than Donny. Our wingers are inside forwards (Rashford and Greewood) who at better running behind defences than they are at playing with ball at feet. They are also suited to ocunter attacking football. I don't see us changing the way we play any time soon, not for VdB anyway.

He's a decent player but square peg in a round hole. He was just the wrong acquisition which wasn't his fault. I thin it's best for both parties he moves on.

This kind of sums it up for me. Even if Donny would be adapted into a CM(similar to what Conte did with Erisken at Inter), he's going to look lost for a long while in that position. The disadvantages(bad runner with the ball, weak physical & defensive attributes) would outweigh the advantages (being a good short passer and a good receiver of the ball when facing his own goal).

To adapt him to CM would also mean us adapting our whole midfield setup around him and that, I think, would make our progressive play quite a lot slower.

 

[acnumber9]

I really feel for Donny, a tough first year. He's gone from an assured starter at a title challenging team who always have a decent champions league run to watching from the stands.

Ajax have got out of the Champions League groups once in 15 years. He’s made a massive step up and isn’t as good as the players he directly competes with for a role. He’ll be a sub at any big club in the big leagues.

 

[Mr Smith]

He got studs with a fair bit of force planted onto his ankle/upper foot. That fecking hurts. The contact might not have tripped him up but you can see why he went down the moment he put had to put weight on that foot.

Nah, I disagree completely to be honest. The freeze shots make it look like he got studs hard into his ankle, but watch it back at regular speed. It really wasn't that much contact, and again, he doesn't break stride. It's also not really true that he goes down after he puts weight on it either. Watch closely, and you'll see he collapses that leg before he puts weight on it.

There's no reason to be partisan about this. We're all United fans here. It was a dive and shouldn't have been a penalty. I'm not blaming Van De Beek for doing it. I'm blaming the terrible refereeing that actively encourages players to do this, rather than using common sense and acknowledging that not all contact is enough for you to go down. Is there a grey area? Hell yes, and I'm quite fine incidents in that area going either way. But the Van De Beek penalty was not in it for me, and I want this to change before the other shoe drops and we get one of these against us.

 

[b82REZ]

Nah, I disagree completely to be honest. The freeze shots make it look like he got studs hard into his ankle, but watch it back at regular speed. It really wasn't that much contact, and again, he doesn't break stride. It's also not really true that he goes down after he puts weight on it either. Watch closely, and you'll see he collapses that leg before he puts weight on it.

There's no reason to be partisan about this. We're all United fans here. It was a dive and shouldn't have been a penalty. I'm not blaming Van De Beek for doing it. I'm blaming the terrible refereeing that actively encourages players to do this, rather than using common sense and acknowledging that not all contact is enough for you to go down. Is there a grey area? Hell yes, and I'm quite fine incidents in that area going either way. But the Van De Beek penalty was not in it for me, and I want this to change before the other shoe drops and we get one of these against us.

You're wrong.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Why are we still arguing about this?

 

[Adam-Utd]

@Mr Smith The tackle visibly wobbles his ankle, he's lucky he didn't go over on it and do his ligaments.

People are welcome to dislike VDB if they like but to try and pretend he didn't get fouled or it wasn't a penalty are just bonkers.

 

[CG1010]

I actually have no problem with VDB going down, but it's definitely not a pen for me, because he takes an extra step with the same foot that the contact was made without breaking stride, so clearly the contact doesn't make any difference. But that's on the ref and VAR, who just seem to give pens for the slightest contact these days. It may have gone for us this time, but I'd be apoplectic if that kind of a pen was given against us.

It was a penalty for me. The contact was deliberate and not even attempting the ball. You cannot allow such things that disadvantage attackers. Its a foul outside the box and its a foul inside it and therefore a penalty. It was stupid by the defender.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Was watching clips of some Ajax players and that Gravenberch seems a real talent - plenty of skill and pace from midfield.

With VDB on the other hand it seems we've gone for one of the most run of the mill footballers in their squad.

On the above discussion, it was a clear penalty.

 

[George the Cat]

He came second behind Brewster in the worst flop category in The Guardian end of season thing. Hopefully he will turn things around next season.

 

[Raven]

He came second behind Brewster in the worst flop category in The Guardian end of season thing. Hopefully he will turn things around next season.

I'm pretty sure Modric got a similar label after his first season at Real.

 

[Tallis]

Can’t wait for him to prove doubters wrong next season. The Wolves game was evidence for me that he is quality player who is taking time to adapt because he hasn’t been able to adapt to our tactics so far due to lack of playing time.

 

[Rozay]

This is what you get when sometimes you just keep the ball and look around instead of treating It like hot potato and trying to play first touch football all the time but…..
Was It really that good game ? Or we are just used to his subpar performances and did not expect anything from him.

i have no idea but if he change his poor games to at least level from Wolves we could need him next season but still far far away from the level required for first 11 I am hoping for.

I echo this. He played with midfielders who are mire careful with the ball, both behind and ahead of him, and it suited him. Our typical game is 100 mph with little patience or precision in our build up. Mata and Matic, along with Amad dropping in, suited him far better.

Ultimately, as the level of football goes up, I think this is the type of midfield we need, perhaps with better individuals though. For the first half we controlled the game, unlike the normal end to end we often find ourselves in.

 

[Mr Smith]

@Mr Smith The tackle visibly wobbles his ankle, he's lucky he didn't go over on it and do his ligaments.

People are welcome to dislike VDB if they like but to try and pretend he didn't get fouled or it wasn't a penalty are just bonkers.

To be clear, this is nothing to do with VDB, I'm not criticising him at all (and for that reason, I'm going to try to stop banging on about it to avoid derailing the thread). It's just an example of an increasing phenomenon I believe we're seeing in the game, which is a lack of common sense in refereeing. I absolutely accept there was contact, but I strongly believe it wasn't enough to actually stop him from running. Again, totally understandable given the standard for penalties in the modern game; he's totally within his rights to go down. I just think refereeing has allowed contact that doesn't actually stop a player or prevent a chance for being called as a penalty.

 

[snk123]

I'm pretty sure Modric got a similar label after his first season at Real.

And I'm sure a lot of players got a similar label and did eventually end up as flops.

 

[Raven]

And I'm sure a lot of players got a similar label and did eventually end up as flops.

I'm just saying it's a largely irrelevant, some players take a while to settle in, some don't.

 

[Ali Dia]

I reckon he’s quietly been improving since the last international break. I think if he gets a solid pre season we should see him come on quite a bit. If he wants to play in our current system he needs to be able to get up and down the pitch. The technical side is a huge jump up in difficulty too. I have a feeling if he gets fit and goes box to box he could still be a good player for us

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Was watching clips of some Ajax players and that Gravenberch seems a real talent - plenty of skill and pace from midfield.

With VDB on the other hand it seems we've gone for one of the most run of the mill footballers in their squad.

On the above discussion, it was a clear penalty.

He's probably their most talented player right now.

 

[snk123]

I'm just saying it's a largely irrelevant, some players take a while to settle in, some don't.

I don’t disagree with you but we’ve been down this road a lot of times.

Giving players more chances then they deserve and then eventually them turning out to be poor - at that time we don’t get a good enough price for them. Players like Jones, Smalling, Anderson, Rojo, Matic should never have been at this club for as long as they were.

We might get a good £ for Donny this summer but we wont if he stays and doesn’t perform for another year. We’re going to be stuck with him or end up selling him for 10-15m.

Whatever Donny has shown so far, there is nothing to suggest he’s ever going to be more than a squad player for us. It’s best to cash in now and use the money on someone like Tielemens or Grealish. It’s best for all parties.

 

[criticalanalysis]

To be clear, this is nothing to do with VDB, I'm not criticising him at all (and for that reason, I'm going to try to stop banging on about it to avoid derailing the thread). It's just an example of an increasing phenomenon I believe we're seeing in the game, which is a lack of common sense in refereeing. I absolutely accept there was contact, but I strongly believe it wasn't enough to actually stop him from running. Again, totally understandable given the standard for penalties in the modern game; he's totally within his rights to go down. I just think refereeing has allowed contact that doesn't actually stop a player or prevent a chance for being called as a penalty.

I understand what you're saying and it is a grey area but then you're advocating kicks, knicks, nudges, arms around players and all those other impeding type of contact where it doesn't entirely 'stop' a player.

I think 'common sense' was applied to this incident. The defender lunged, missed the ball and treads on VDB's ankle. How VDB reacted afterwards is sort of irrelevant. A foul is a foul.

 

[Marcus]

To be clear, this is nothing to do with VDB, I'm not criticising him at all (and for that reason, I'm going to try to stop banging on about it to avoid derailing the thread). It's just an example of an increasing phenomenon I believe we're seeing in the game, which is a lack of common sense in refereeing. I absolutely accept there was contact, but I strongly believe it wasn't enough to actually stop him from running. Again, totally understandable given the standard for penalties in the modern game; he's totally within his rights to go down. I just think refereeing has allowed contact that doesn't actually stop a player or prevent a chance for being called as a penalty.

This wasn't a shoulder barge. This was a foot to ankle challenge with enough force to move his leg while he is running. Of course you would be affected. Just because you can continue running doesn't mean the opposing player hasn't gained an unfair advantage for his team by putting you off.

 

[roonster09]

I don't know why there is any doubt in that penalty decision, you can even see the studs on his ankle, clear and proper contact too.

 

[Mr Smith]

This wasn't a shoulder barge. This was a foot to ankle challenge with enough force to move his leg while he is running. Of course you would be affected. Just because you can continue running doesn't mean the opposing player hasn't gained an unfair advantage for his team by putting you off.

I would argue the fact that he is able to continue running without stumbling at the moment of contact is all the evidence you need that the defender didn't gain an unfair advantage. But I recognise I'm in the minority opinion here, so I'll let it go.

 

[Bebestation]

I would argue the fact that he is able to continue running without stumbling at the moment of contact is all the evidence you need that the defender didn't gain an unfair advantage. But I recognise I'm in the minority opinion here, so I'll let it go.

Maintaining of balance doesn’t mean it was fake though.

It can be pure luck that the right foot steps at the right time and keeps you up.

Have you not slipped and still maintained balanced so you didn’t fall and hurt your head?

That’s all that had to VDB, he maintained his balance when his foot went down but it wasn’t enough to keep him up for the whole run.

 

[Bondi77]

This all day long. There was painful contact. What is wrong with the posters who disagree?

Of course, how is this even being debated.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Was there a foul.... Yes

Did he go down dramatically.. Yes

Even with VAR, would the ref have given it if there was no fall.. No

 

[tenpoless]

VAR de beek.
He won a penalty for us, why is it a problem ffs.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I'm just saying it's a largely irrelevant, some players take a while to settle in, some don't.

Fact is most players who don't click in their first season end up as flops. Sure there's an exceptions here and there but I wouldn't put my money in it.

 

[KirkDuyt]

He's made the team for the Euro's. Probably for lack of a decent alternative, because if we had any kind of decent back up I think he would've been left behind. Regardless, I doubt he'll play much since he's clearly below Klaassen in the pecking order.

 

[Sea-Cow]

Something to hold onto for next season with that performance. He’s a likeable guy so really wanting him to do well in his second season.

I agree. He seems like such a nice little lad and I really hope he does well, even if its not with us. I hope he doesn't just fade away and end up playing for a bottom tier club in Germany or something.

 

[Eendracht maakt macht]

He's made the team for the Euro's. Probably for lack of a decent alternative, because if we had any kind of decent back up I think he would've been left behind. Regardless, I doubt he'll play much since he's clearly below Klaassen in the pecking order.

Sad that we don’t have someone better than him. We used to be good.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Sad that we don’t have someone better than him. We used to be good.

Yeah, if only we had De Ligt and Van Dijk in 2010 instead of Heitinga and Matthijsen.

 

[Sea-Cow]

Yeah easily his best position. He isnt a #10 in a United side. He isn't a DM either, needs to be the #8 with a true defensive midfielder and he might actually have a future as a starter here. Never going to be anything as a 10 though.

Yeah that position might be his best but for United it is pretty much locked down by one of the most productive players I've seen in ages! So he needs to get more lean and mean and really work on his fitness I think. If he improves on his fitness and gets where he can bomb around as B2B #8 I think he could be very useful here.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Should have come on for Pogba after about 65 minutes if you ask me.

Wonder what he's thinking, big money move and can't even get on the pitch in 120 minutes.

 

[Terranova]

was to be expected, after every "good" performance there is a match where he isn't playing

 

[mu4c_20le]

Should have come on for Pogba after about 65 minutes if you ask me.

Wonder what he's thinking, big money move and can't even get on the pitch in 120 minutes.

"Damn, why doesn't Bruno ever get tired."

 

[BarstoolProphet]

MotM.

 

[Irrational.]

Needs to leave. His career will be in tatters as long as Ole’s in charge.

 

[MattofManchester]

I really can't understand why we insist on not giving him a go as one of the midfield duo, when his qualities are better suited to that role than Pogba.

 

[bosnian_red]

What the feck is the point of his signing? 40m, played in big matches for Ajax yet doesn't get on the pitch in 120 minutes against in the final. We don't bring him on when we need a goal, we don't bring him on to calm things down and give us control, we don't bring him on to hold onto a result. What's the point?