I think he was bought and Ole sold him on the fact he would take Pogbas place. If Pogba re-signs or if VDB hasnt broken through by the end of the season then he will look to leave. The WC is 2022 and he wont risk not getting game time and not getting picked for that. At the moment he is a regular international. He will get picked for the stupid Euros (which should have been cancelled imo), but another season not playing regularly will impact on his development and thats why I think he will leave if Pogba stays. He needs to be playing regularly at his age.
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Kuyt was a striker/winger though and VDB is a midfielder
I think we'll use Beek as a sweetener in a big deal in the summer.
Dirk Kuyt was a forward that was so bad at scoring they invented the term "Defensive Forward" for him. Also played during the worst period in Liverpools premier league history winning a grand total of one league cup in 6 seasons.
Like many, I thought we'd see more of VDB but for some reason I still feel relaxed about him. I think he's already shown us he's a very good player and more than worthy of a place here albeit nothing explosive due to lack of opportunity. But it is his first season and right now other players are simply performing well in his position. Once he gets a chance via injury or suspension, he may well take it.
Don't buy these notions that we'll sell or anything like that. Quite likely pogba will leave and I think vdb will take on that role while we pursue sancho again
Don't buy these notions that we'll sell or anything like that. Quite likely pogba will leave and I think vdb will take on that role while we pursue sancho again
De Roon is playing as a CDM, not his position. So yeah he's only behind De Jong and Wijnaldum instead of being behind Fernandes/Pogba/Fred/McTominay/Matic. Fernandes and Poga are world class players, so it's only logical that he's behind them. But not Fred/McTominay/Matic. Sure you can say Matic isn't the same position, like De Roon isn't. But then he's still the 5th midfielder. With 2 players ahead of him who are average at best.
If that's your excuse about De Roon then it should also apply on Fred, McTominay & Matic because they are defensive type midfielder, their role and task are different to Donny. So yeah he's only behind Bruno & Pogba.
This is one thing I do not get.. when Frank De Boer and others are speaking out, they don't even have him as a starter so it kind of defeat's the purpose.
Its a bit different to a Giroud situation where he starts.
Perhaps he's having off the field issues.
Can't be essy for a young lad to move to a new country and be stuck in the pandemic situation, in lockdown and not able to have friends and fsmily visiting him as you'd expect would normally happen.
Can't be essy for a young lad to move to a new country and be stuck in the pandemic situation, in lockdown and not able to have friends and fsmily visiting him as you'd expect would normally happen.
I'm willing to bet Donny will never match his goal tally in the prem though.
Kuyt was shit though, don't missunderstand
I think playing for us ATM is one step too many for DvdB, he looks like a rabbit caught in the OT floodlights
He's not too sure what to do with the ball and exactly where he's meant to be playing, possibly not all his fault as he's been dropped in all over the place by Ole
He's not too sure what to do with the ball and exactly where he's meant to be playing, possibly not all his fault as he's been dropped in all over the place by Ole
I personally think he has looked fairly good when he has actually played. Not spectacular but certainly enough to get more minutes than he has.
It seems Ole had/has no clear plan for him which is a bit irresponsible when a young lad's career is in your hands. Given he has started what 2/3 league games and it's mid January he'd be justified in telling his agent to get him the hell out of there.
It seems Ole had/has no clear plan for him which is a bit irresponsible when a young lad's career is in your hands. Given he has started what 2/3 league games and it's mid January he'd be justified in telling his agent to get him the hell out of there.
Pretty much this.
What I would suggest at this time is that we not worry too much about Ole's nonuse of Donny. We're on a great run of form and have Liverpool coming up. When we run through a softer stretch of opponents hopefully we'll see Donny come on earlier than the 85th. If that's not going to be the case, Donny should move on to another club such as Barcelona or Real, which appear to be interested in him.
I dont know about anybody else, but i still feel like I have very little idea about Donny as a player for us. I remember about 60 minutes in against Burnley and im thinking "who can come off the bench and add something?" and when it came to Donny I really had no idea whether he would be a good option in that scenario, against this opponent.
Its a weird one. Reminds me of the Mhkytarian situation. He ultimately wasn't good enough for the team, but from what I've seen from Donny he certainly does look good enough. There must be a longer term plan for him.
Its a weird one. Reminds me of the Mhkytarian situation. He ultimately wasn't good enough for the team, but from what I've seen from Donny he certainly does look good enough. There must be a longer term plan for him.
I don't see him getting many more minutes if he went to Barca or RM...
he's still young enough (24 in April), we should give him a couple of years, he'll either develop into a better player or plateau out at squad player level
I'm sure if he's unhappy with his lack of games, his agent will offer him to other clubs
No doubt it's wonderful for us to have a player like Donny on the squad, but from his perspective there's no way he could accept a couple of years on the bench, especially if it means watching McFred consistently get more quality minutes than him. If he were 20 a two year run as a squad player (think, the situation Greenwood is in now) would make perfect sense, but he's almost 24 now. He can't sit on the bench for two years.
Unless you've been with United since childhood, serving Real or Barcelona's bench is a more attractive option than United's bench.
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he’s been fine, nothing major but it’s to be expected. It’s his first season and with pretty normal 2nd and 3rd season progress he’ll most likely become one of the better midfielders in the league, like Fred has. I don’t get people saying we are going to sell him in the summer. We need a strong and diverse squad. Do we have to do this to every player who doesn’t come in and do a Bruno?
It's impossible to judge VDB until he's had consistent minutes in the team playing along side Bruno, Rashford, Pogba etc. His intelligence and ability to move the ball quickly should, in theory, be a great compliment to them.
My only (minor) criticism of him so far would be he's too safe when in possession, tending to opt for an easy lay off rather than something more direct and incisive. Having said that, that could easily be down to him feeling pressure to not make a mistake as opportunities have been limited thus far and him playing within himself.
I hope he can contribute more as the season progresses but we shouldn't be making any definitive judgements until we're well into next season. Fred and Bailly are perfect examples of patience paying dividends.
My only (minor) criticism of him so far would be he's too safe when in possession, tending to opt for an easy lay off rather than something more direct and incisive. Having said that, that could easily be down to him feeling pressure to not make a mistake as opportunities have been limited thus far and him playing within himself.
I hope he can contribute more as the season progresses but we shouldn't be making any definitive judgements until we're well into next season. Fred and Bailly are perfect examples of patience paying dividends.
Yeah but can be do that on a cold night in Liverpool?
Have to say this a peculiar situation with his lack of game time, granted new to the squad but Ole spoke of his qualities when signing him particularly getting us more goals from midfield, any time I have seen him play he is most importantly very forward focused, he turns instinctively on the ball to get it moving forward, his distribution is tidy, he is intelligent and confident, he moves the ball quickly and accurately and is tenacious in winning it back off the ball, they are all qualities we know Ole wants, we can only keep an eye and see how it develops.
[QUOTE="lex talionis, post: 26646074, member: 109475"]
Pretty much this.
What I would suggest at this time is that we not worry too much about Ole's nonuse of Donny. We're on a great run of form and have Liverpool coming up. When we run through a softer stretch of opponents hopefully we'll see Donny come on earlier than the 85th. If that's not going to be the case, Donny should move on to another club such as Barcelona or Real, which appear to be interested in him.
END QUOTE
Of course I wouldn't suggest throwing him in against Liverpool on Sunday but I do think there is a certain rolling of the dice long term going on here that is a bit concerning.
What I mean is that, although Donny's best position is at number 10 and he isn't going to displace Bruno as Ole has seemingly made his mind up will always play there (even though I would personally like to see him drop into midfield in a 4-3-3 like he played at Lisbon with Donny at no.10 but that's a whole different topic!) a certain part of the reason of why Donny isn't playing at all is because Ole is going with Pogba in the slightly deeper role despite the fact the guy wants to leave and will most likely do so come the Summer.
So if you're a bit pessimistic like I am and think that our league position flatters us and we will ultimately finish behind Liverpool and City then, if that does indeed happen, this Summer we will lose not only Pogba but also potentially Donny because we went with the talented but chronic pain in the arse who we mistakenly bent over backwards to put in the team for the possible short term gains and which ended up not even making the difference that we already knew was going to leave.
Of course Ole is understandably going full tilt for the title but surely he must know that Pogba is most likely to leave regardless of what happens and he is taking a big risk by neglecting Donny. For what it's worth I think there's a reason why the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona would be interested in him and it's because he's a super player that can be devastating when used properly.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this.
What I would suggest at this time is that we not worry too much about Ole's nonuse of Donny. We're on a great run of form and have Liverpool coming up. When we run through a softer stretch of opponents hopefully we'll see Donny come on earlier than the 85th. If that's not going to be the case, Donny should move on to another club such as Barcelona or Real, which appear to be interested in him.
END QUOTE
Of course I wouldn't suggest throwing him in against Liverpool on Sunday but I do think there is a certain rolling of the dice long term going on here that is a bit concerning.
What I mean is that, although Donny's best position is at number 10 and he isn't going to displace Bruno as Ole has seemingly made his mind up will always play there (even though I would personally like to see him drop into midfield in a 4-3-3 like he played at Lisbon with Donny at no.10 but that's a whole different topic!) a certain part of the reason of why Donny isn't playing at all is because Ole is going with Pogba in the slightly deeper role despite the fact the guy wants to leave and will most likely do so come the Summer.
So if you're a bit pessimistic like I am and think that our league position flatters us and we will ultimately finish behind Liverpool and City then, if that does indeed happen, this Summer we will lose not only Pogba but also potentially Donny because we went with the talented but chronic pain in the arse who we mistakenly bent over backwards to put in the team for the possible short term gains and which ended up not even making the difference that we already knew was going to leave.
Of course Ole is understandably going full tilt for the title but surely he must know that Pogba is most likely to leave regardless of what happens and he is taking a big risk by neglecting Donny. For what it's worth I think there's a reason why the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona would be interested in him and it's because he's a super player that can be devastating when used properly.[/QUOTE]
I don't think we are going to sell him in the Summer, what I said was he would be justified in saying to his agent that he should start looking for a move for him. I honestly don't know how anyone can make any assessment at all of him as a United player given his paltry game time. I'm still having to go off his Ajax years to be honest and, from what I've seen there, he's a smashing player.
Whatever way you cut it, 2 league starts for a 35mil player that was one of the hottest young prospects in Europe is absolute bullshit. There's a reason why Real Madrid had basically agreed to sign him before they felt the pinch.
Modern Family. One of the late seasons.
Nobody will ever convince me it’s not him.
Don't see any difference between VDB and any of a million other players who struggled initially for the first season at a new club. It happens.
Hell, Fred looked outright dreadful at times and he still managed to turn it around.
Hell, Fred looked outright dreadful at times and he still managed to turn it around.
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I agree with that. The rub for me is that, perhaps one or two mediocre performances, Donny has actually been very good. But instead of sticking with him before Pogba got back on track in December Ole leaned on James and McTominay before Donny. Neither is superior to Donny, although McTominay’s performance against Leeds was of the highest class. We dropped points against clubs we should have taken more from.
But here we are today, at the top of the table. We’re going to hit another dip in squad performance and when that happens I hope Ole looks past James and McTominay and gives Van de Beek a run of several matches to prove whether or not the investment in him was worth it. If not, then we all just need to move on. Donny is at an age where he can’t afford to be a bystander.
We shall see.
Does Donny play on the wings? James was played in matches predominantly where Ole was looking to use his pace. It didn’t really work apart from against Leeds, but Donny would not have been considered in place of him. Re Mctominay, again he’s used more for his ability to tackle and recycle the ball. I don’t know if Donny would offer as much defensive stability.
I agree with that. The rub for me is that, perhaps one or two mediocre performances, Donny has actually been very good. But instead of sticking with him before Pogba got back on track in December Ole leaned on James and McTominay before Donny. Neither is superior to Donny, although McTominay’s performance against Leeds was of the highest class. We dropped points against clubs we should have taken more from.
But here we are today, at the top of the table. We’re going to hit another dip in squad performance and when that happens I hope Ole looks past James and McTominay and gives Van de Beek a run of several matches to prove whether or not the investment in him was worth it. If not, then we all just need to move on. Donny is at an age where he can’t afford to be a bystander.
We shall see.
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1. James plays LW/RW not CAM. So, I am not sure what you are getting at.
2. Donny has played more minutes than James. Almost twice as many... so can you tell me where is the substance in your pos?
3. McT is in the team to be a destroyer... get about the pitch, win the ball back, mark their attackers. I.e Get on Neymar, Grealish, etc.... So again, can you tell me how McTominay has taken Donnys minutes?
4. Donny is a midfielder who likes to score and get in the box... Bruno is our midfielder who does that, if you say Ole needs to drop him for Donny, it would make more sense.
5. Donny is 23... just come to a new league and hasn't even been a season, how is he a bystander then?
But here we are today, at the top of the table. We’re going to hit another dip in squad performance and when that happens I hope Ole looks past James and McTominay and gives Van de Beek a run of several matches to prove whether or not the investment in him was worth it. If not, then we all just need to move on. Donny is at an age where he can’t afford to be a bystander.
We shall see.
[/QUOTE]
1. James plays LW/RW not CAM. So, I am not sure what you are getting at.
2. Donny has played more minutes than James. Almost twice as many... so can you tell me where is the substance in your pos?
3. McT is in the team to be a destroyer... get about the pitch, win the ball back, mark their attackers. I.e Get on Neymar, Grealish, etc.... So again, can you tell me how McTominay has taken Donnys minutes?
4. Donny is a midfielder who likes to score and get in the box... Bruno is our midfielder who does that, if you say Ole needs to drop him for Donny, it would make more sense.
5. Donny is 23... just come to a new league and hasn't even been a season, how is he a bystander then?
any truth in this ? or just press bollocks.
Inter Milan look to loan Donny van de Beek from Man United (caughtoffside.com)
Inter Milan look to loan Donny van de Beek from Man United (caughtoffside.com)
Premier League football is a bit more frantic than he will be used to. Ole is trying to bed him in slowly, but probably expected him to adapt a bit quicker and didn't expect us to be doing as well as we are in the league so cannot afford to rotate too much.
Obviously in the 2nd half of the season fatigue might be more of an issue so he best be ready to step up. However, I expect to see a lot of him in the Europa League.
Obviously in the 2nd half of the season fatigue might be more of an issue so he best be ready to step up. However, I expect to see a lot of him in the Europa League.
I was thinking this the other day. I think we know his skillset, what he's good at. But in terms of what role he will actually end up fulfilling for us, that's uncertain right now.
If you look at Ajax set-ups when VDB played there, you see some interesting patterns. Very often when Ajax focused on defensive robustness, VDB was moved into the “Bruno-role”, and against easier opponents he played centre in a 4-3-3 system.
In today’s Man Utd set-up it’s pretty obvious VDB fits best in the role occupied by Bruno. It’s nice to have a backup for Bruno, but unfortunately (for VDB) Bruno wants to play all the time and doesn’t seem to need recovery or backup.
I think the only other option for VDB is if United go for a new CDM. That would open a new door for VDB. He will likely be perfect in the position between a CDM and Bruno, for example together with Pogba.
So I agree it looks very difficult for VDB right now, but things could change if Bruno gets injured or if we buy a CDM and decide to change our system a little bit.
In today’s Man Utd set-up it’s pretty obvious VDB fits best in the role occupied by Bruno. It’s nice to have a backup for Bruno, but unfortunately (for VDB) Bruno wants to play all the time and doesn’t seem to need recovery or backup.
I think the only other option for VDB is if United go for a new CDM. That would open a new door for VDB. He will likely be perfect in the position between a CDM and Bruno, for example together with Pogba.
So I agree it looks very difficult for VDB right now, but things could change if Bruno gets injured or if we buy a CDM and decide to change our system a little bit.
1. James plays LW/RW not CAM. So, I am not sure what you are getting at.
2. Donny has played more minutes than James. Almost twice as many... so can you tell me where is the substance in your pos?
3. McT is in the team to be a destroyer... get about the pitch, win the ball back, mark their attackers. I.e Get on Neymar, Grealish, etc.... So again, can you tell me how McTominay has taken Donnys minutes?
4. Donny is a midfielder who likes to score and get in the box... Bruno is our midfielder who does that, if you say Ole needs to drop him for Donny, it would make more sense.
5. Donny is 23... just come to a new league and hasn't even been a season, how is he a bystander then?
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Donny plays deeper than James, no doubt, but through and through he’s an attacking player. Just my opinion but I regard him as superior to James who, and I want to be careful in phrasing but I’ll put it this way anyway, just isn’t United quality.
I’d like to see the minutes in PL games, not cup competitions. I’m not particularly interested in the league cup or the FA Cup. We’ve been in several league matches where we needed something extra in the final third and Ole gave us James, who gave back nothing.
I like McTominay, but I wouldn’t call him a destroyer. Nor would I call VdB a destroyer either. But he’s not much of a creator either. He’s tidy up to a point and we all know about his performance v Leeds, but McTominay’s ability on the ball is a pale shadow of that of Van de Beek. And if that’s not a true statement, that in fact McTominay is in fact a superior ball playing midfielder to Van de Beek then we just shoveled 35m into the furnace.
I have never suggested Donny is the equal of Bruno. Nor Pogba. Pogba was rather shit earlier this season, which I don’t think anyone here denies, on account of health and fitness issues. Now he’s shaken that off and has returned to being the imperious midfielder we’ve seen him be for United on a few previous occasions, though he’s still nowhere close to his form at Juve. Ole is doing exactly the right thing by riding Bruno and Pogba hard during this stretch and there’s no doubt both must start against Liverpool, but what I’m saying is that looking ahead if Donny gets subbed on in the 85th minute every other match through the end of the season, that may be a great thing for United, but he would be mad not to explore other options. You only get this kind of window once in your playing career. It’s a pretty quick turn from being a star player for Ajax to becoming a journeyman who has to settle for, say, Bayer Leverkusen because your career sputtered with United.
The last point is nonresponsive to the previous points.
If Donny is happy with being a long term squad that’s great for United, although it’s hard to imagine a player of his quality entering his prime playing careers being happy to be a long term squad player. Some, like John O’Shea or Nicky Butt, were perfectly suited for such a role. I have doubts that Donny Ban de Beek is suited fir such a role. It’s virtually impossible for such a player, who was stellar for Ajax and is on the radar of both Barcelona and Real, to progress as a footballer being an underused squad man for United.
But we’re top of the table and I see us actually beating Liverpool this weekend, so it’s onward and upward, glory Man United.
Are you sure there isn't even a bit of bias against a player who played for bitter rivals and even scored a few against your team while showing off his badge? He's anything but average in my eyes. I'd play him over McTominay most times than not. He wasn't coveted by Real and Barca for nothing.
1. James plays LW/RW not CAM. So, I am not sure what you are getting at.
2. Donny has played more minutes than James. Almost twice as many... so can you tell me where is the substance in your pos?
3. McT is in the team to be a destroyer... get about the pitch, win the ball back, mark their attackers. I.e Get on Neymar, Grealish, etc.... So again, can you tell me how McTominay has taken Donnys minutes?
4. Donny is a midfielder who likes to score and get in the box... Bruno is our midfielder who does that, if you say Ole needs to drop him for Donny, it would make more sense.
5. Donny is 23... just come to a new league and hasn't even been a season, how is he a bystander then?
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Donny being young is something people don't highight enough
Of course I'm biased against him a bit, that's why I mention my Feyenoord heart. However, I honestly think out of the Ajax team that lost to Spurs, he was a passenger and not one of the key players. He simply doesn't have any abilities beyond getting in position and scoring goals. He has no passing range, he's neither really fast nor really slow, neither really tall nor really short, neither a terrible dribbler nor a fantastic dribbler, he's just, I dunno, an adequate player. Which is fine of course, but I don't think it's fine for a club like United who aim to win leagues and CL's.
On a personal level I really like Donny actually, he seems like a genuinely nice kid. I just have a lot of Ajax supporting friends who never stop talking about how amazing they are and how they're the Dutch Bayern Munchen and how it's only a matter of time until they will be considered among the European elite. So seeing them crash out in the groupstages twice and having them realize not all their players are the new Johan Cruyff tickles me a bit. I'm only human after all.
I would obviously ritually sacrifice our entire midfield if it meant he'd sign for Feyenoord. Well maybe not Jens Toornstra, he's a funny dude.
Perfect player to bring on for a struggling Bruno against a high press Liverpool side playing a high line consisting of makeshift defenders. Nope. Zero minutes. Again. He really is wasted here and should move on for his own career.
If he doesn't get a kick today with Bruno as bad as he was then I'm not sure he has a future here
Knocking on the managers door after the performance of his competition today.
I would replace Scott with VDB and see if that works
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