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We played high-line and we don't do offsides? That doesn't make any sense in so many levels.Ole categorically said we don't do offsides and that player should have been marked. In fact before he made the move he shows the Fulham player to Bailly. I also thought we were playing for offside.
Bailly is brilliant and a disaster in the same game. Their goal was because he went to sleep.
It's mostly Pogba's fault, but Maguire and Bailly shouldn't let a gap like that open up. Maguire shouldn't run off wide like he did whilst Bailly should move over to cover.Why is the goal conceded attributed to Bailly? Look at Pogba and how he leaves his runner expecting an offside, you just can’t do that if you play in a midfield two. A runner will always break through, but you expect a midfielder to cover that regardless imo.
This was not a trained pattern like an offside trap. Both AWB and Bailly were 2 meters away from the offside line. It is possible even Bailly played him onside from angles showed on tv. If he didn’t he was only inches away and should make some kind of effort to cover for Maguire. To me, he screw up but is is not the end of the world. Most goals come from CBs screwing up, it’s the nature of the game.Not really. That's why team has pattern of play to drill, so players can be expected to do certain moves in flow.
I assume that FB on far side wouldn't be the last man when keeping an offside trap, for example.
Unfortunately, those championing Bailly over Lindelof in recent weeks have set a precedent. Some of the things he did yesterday, and indeed in recent games despite the praise, Lindelof would've got crucified for. Even against Burnley he was being beaten in the air and shrugged off the ball.Such hyperbole in this thread.
Is a footballer not allowed to make a mistake now and then?
Of course they are, but we’ve seen this before with Bailly after stringing together some incredible performances, and those suddenly claiming him “the best CB at the club”, or putting him in their joint United/Liverpool 11s were getting way ahead of themselves.Such hyperbole in this thread.
Is a footballer not allowed to make a mistake now and then?
I don't think he's a back up. I think his slection last night and omission vs Liverpool was tactical. Against Fulham our centre backs were going to be higher up the pitch as we had the lion's share of possession so Ole favoured Bailly because of his pace to cover the space behind. In games where we're deeper, more compact and with less of the ball I think he trusts Lindelof to do the basics better.Unfortunately, those championing Bailly over Lindelof in recent weeks have set a precedent. Some of the things he did yesterday, and indeed in recent games despite the praise, Lindelof would've got crucified for. Even against Burnley he was being beaten in the air and shrugged off the ball.
Its clear why Ole prefers Lindelof to Bailly. That said, it's good to have a strong back up option, and one bad performance doesn't suddenly make him a terrible defender.
@ the bolded, Burnley is probably the most aerially dominant team in the league but even at that was he really getting beaten in the air? I struggle to recall an instance of this. Perhaps you can refresh my memory somehow.Unfortunately, those championing Bailly over Lindelof in recent weeks have set a precedent. Some of the things he did yesterday, and indeed in recent games despite the praise, Lindelof would've got crucified for. Even against Burnley he was being beaten in the air and shrugged off the ball.
Its clear why Ole prefers Lindelof to Bailly. That said, it's good to have a strong back up option, and one bad performance doesn't suddenly make him a terrible defender.
But he wasn't awful yesterday. He wasn't excellent, yet I would say he was at worst, mediocre. And no one can be expected to be at their best for every single game.Of course they are, but we’ve seen this before with Bailly after stringing together some incredible performances, and those suddenly claiming him “the best CB at the club”, or putting him in their joint United/Liverpool 11s were getting way ahead of themselves.
With Bailly it’s always best to take each game as it comes, our fans should be acutely aware of this.
I’d still play him in the next game mind, because his top level is so good, but I won’t be surprised if he’s awful, or amazing, it’s Eric, he is the enigma.
I don't know, if this was the last game of the season and we needed to win to finish top, then Ole definitely picking Lindelof over Bailly. He's rotating well, and picking Bailly over Lindelof in games that suits him.I don't think he's a back up. I think his slection last night and omission vs Liverpool was tactical. Against Fulham our centre backs were going to be higher up the pitch as we had the lion's share of possession so Ole favoured Bailly because of his pace to cover the space behind. In games where we're deeper, more compact and with less of the ball I think he trusts Lindelof to do the basics better.
Yes. No more so than Lindelof apparently does when he plays against big sides, but if it's enough to criticize Lindelof over, then it's enough to criticize Bailly over, too. I can't remember specific instances; much like I imagine you can't remember specific instances of Bailly winning headers against Burnley, but I do remember thinking at the time: Lindelof would be considered 'bullied' if that happened to him.@ the bolded, Burnley is probably the most aerially dominant team in the league but even at that was he really getting beaten in the air? I struggle to recall an instance of this. Perhaps you can refresh my memory somehow.
And for yesterday, was that really a bad performance or merely a decent one with one or two dodgy moments? I struggle to accept that his involvement in the goal which involved failings from multiple actors is enough to make yesterday's game a bad one.
No it's really not 'entirely on Bailey'. What was Maguire doing? Just because you've walked off the side of the pitch doesn't mean you cease to have responsibility for defending.There was no way for Pogba to get to his man. Bailly was already goal side of him and then suddenly when he was pointed to him decided to play him offside. Ole said we do not do offside. So it is entirely on Bailly.
If he was notably bad in the air in that game you would have remembered it and certainly, others would have and would have made a big deal over it because, like Lindelof, there are always many people waiting for Bailly to make an error. I mean, just look at the way he has been criticised over things like taking a knee in the neck from his own keeper, or having Fred shoot the ball at his hand. I'd imagine any other player gets a pass in these instances.Yes. No more so than Lindelof apparently does when he plays against big sides, but if it's enough to criticize Lindelof over, then it's enough to criticize Bailly over, too. I can't remember specific instances; much like I imagine you can't remember specific instances of Bailly winning headers against Burnley, but I do remember thinking at the time: Lindelof would be considered 'bullied' if that happened to him.
Yes it was. Dodgy moments + being at fault for the goal is a bad game for a CB. The attempts to blame Maguire and Pogba for the goal are completely misplaced. Maguire is fine to step across when it looks as though Shaw is going out to the FB because we have a spare CB behind. Pogba should absolutely not be chasing a player beyond the CBs when we have a spare CB to pass the player on to. Bailly is in the perfect position to see the runner, where his other CB is, and the massive hole between him and Maguire. He has switched off. It happens.
That's a really simplistic view of things. All you have to do is explain what Maguire was doing but no one can.Of course it’s on Bailly man, my God. He can see the line, and he can see the runner, but he switched off.
Bailly, seeing this decides to try and play him off rather than go with the run, and gets it just wrong.
It happens, so what, but don’t try sharing the fecking blame around man.
He followed his man out because Shaw may have been faced with an overload on that side. It proved to be a suboptimal decision, albeit with some defensive logic but Bailly's reaction to it was a much bigger problem.That's a really simplistic view of things. All you have to do is explain what Maguire was doing but no one can.
There are reasons for Maguire to go out there, there are no reasons or excuses whatsoever for Bailly to see everything in front of him and still get it wrong.That's a really simplistic view of things. All you have to do is explain what Maguire was doing but no one can.
Absolutely loads have in this thread.All you have to do is explain what Maguire was doing but no one can.
Cool, you clearly agree that it was suboptimal. Bailey ends up covering Maguire's recently vacated position. You could argue, that, had Maguire not moved across there would be no goal.He followed his man out because Shaw may have been faced with an overload on that side. It proved to be a suboptimal decision, albeit with some defensive logic but Bailly's reaction to it was a much bigger problem.
I posted this in the Maguire thread a moment agoCool, you clearly agree that it was suboptimal. Bailey ends up covering Maguire's recently vacated position. You could argue, that, had Maguire not moved across there would be no goal.
Obviously you've gone with a majority blame rather than an entirely blame position so there's not much point arguing with that. I imagine you would say AWB position is sub optimal too.
All right mate. Calm down.Absolutely loads have in this thread.
And it really doesn’t fecking matter what the other centre half was doing, he could be on the fecking moon, but if a centre half sees a run that he can follow but instead tries to play-off side, and miss times it. It is obviously 100% on him.
The critique some people are moaning about in this thread is being boiled up now by posters so desperate to absolve Bailly of blame, instead of just admitting what it was, a mistake, it happens; and an off game, it happens.
It might seem like a 50/50 damned if you do damned if you don't.I posted this in the Maguire thread a moment ago
Rio said it was fine if Shaw hadn't held his position and went to mark the other Fulham player. Shaw did hold his position though. Maguire made a call and it didn't come off. I think he is at fault to a degree but the sticker is that he'd would have been equally criticised if he didn't follow his man and and Shaw had been exposed on a 2v1 and that led to a Fulham goal.
Bailly doesn't react to the developing danger at all which is the major error.
Ole says we don't actively try to play the offside trap so its hard to fault AWB too much. I'd criticise Pogba more because he could have followed Lookman but let him go to appeal for offside.
So to clarify, you can't remember specific instances of winning the ball in the air, but still maintain I should remember individual instances of him losing the ball in the air? He wasn't atrocious in the air, he just didn't fair any better than Lindelof would've. As I said, I remember thinking: Lindelof would be criticized for that. Unfortunately, when his champions micro analyse every single thing Lindelof does in order to try find fault, they should expect its going to happen to Bailly.If he was notably bad in the air in that game you would have remembered it and certainly, others would have and would have made a big deal over it because, like Lindelof, there are always many people waiting for Bailly to make an error. I mean, just look at the way he has been criticised over things like taking a knee in the neck from his own keeper, or having Fred shoot the ball at his hand. I'd imagine any other player gets a pass in these instances.
And yeah I wasn't thinking of Maguire, more of Pogba and AWB. I did think it very unusual for a CM to be in that position but he was in it and should have seen it through, and to be fair he was going to, and he only stops because he thinks he's playing Lookman offside not because he's passing him off to Bailly. I would have expected Bailly to get tighter seeing that Pogba wasn't tracking well, however.
AWB is on the other hand, clearly out of position doing nothing. Should be concentrating much better.
But overall it seems like your criticism is more in the context of Lindelof vs Bailly and in that respect I would have to say I don't think Lindelof is a bad player. He's been very good this season and was certainly so against Liverpool.
This is where I disagree. Bailly has been described as “incredible” in his last matches. There hasn’t been anything incredible. He’s been good but same level as Maguire -Lindelof have been playing all the time. We kept a clean sheet vs Burnley. Great. A few days later we kept a clean sheet at Anfield (which would be more incredible imo since it was the first time any team got a clean sheet at Anfield since 2018).Of course they are, but we’ve seen this before with Bailly after stringing together some incredible performances, and those suddenly claiming him “the best CB at the club”, or putting him in their joint United/Liverpool 11s were getting way ahead of themselves.
With Bailly it’s always best to take each game as it comes, our fans should be acutely aware of this.
I’d still play him in the next game mind, because his top level is so good, but I won’t be surprised if he’s awful, or amazing, it’s Eric, he is the enigma.
Lindelof was receiving treatments, wasn’t even on the bench. I believe Lindelof and Bailly will alternate because Lindelof can’t play every game any longer and Bailly is good against the weaker teams.I don't think he's a back up. I think his slection last night and omission vs Liverpool was tactical. Against Fulham our centre backs were going to be higher up the pitch as we had the lion's share of possession so Ole favoured Bailly because of his pace to cover the space behind. In games where we're deeper, more compact and with less of the ball I think he trusts Lindelof to do the basics better.
That too but I was referring to the injury time deflection.For that backpass which was almost short?
How exactly was it on Pogba? The fact that Pogba was the closest one to Lookman should tell you all about what you need to know about Maguire's and Bailly's positioning.Good performance with a couple of hair brained moments. Standard from him and obvious why Lindelof plays the big games. Liverpool punish those mistakes while Fulham sky it over the bar.
The goal was 90% on Pogba but Maguire and Bailly should both have been more switched on to the gap that appeared between them.
Sloppy as in sloppy all round, sloppy passing he nearly sold DeGeneres short towards the end. Sloppy in possession like when he tried to dribble into midfield and lost possession. And sloppy with his positioning, I still can't figure out what he was doing with his arms up for their goal. What was he signalling andvyo whom? Only Eric knows.I watched the game and we must've been watching two totally different games. There was a catalogue of errors that led up to the first goal if we are being honest. Like you said multiple people were at fault.
But he played very well aside from that, and the stats back what I observed tbh. I don't even know what you mean by sloppy. To each their own but like I said if VVD had stats like that everybody would cream.
Watching the game now, Bailly is the biggest culprit. Maguire anticipated a pass that never came, and Pogba was always going to lose Lookman there. Bailly had to cover both, that is what he is there for. He just didn't know what was developing around him.It's mostly Pogba's fault, but Maguire and Bailly shouldn't let a gap like that open up. Maguire shouldn't run off wide like he did whilst Bailly should move over to cover.
No, when Lindelof has started he has always been in the squad. Maybe he picked up some minor injury or is working with some prehab and took the day off.Any word on why he wasn't in the squad today?
According to Ole he had a little bruise but he'll be ready to play against Sheffield.Any word on why he wasn't in the squad today?
Ole wants to match Bailly step by step in order to see how he recovers and his body responds to stress or heavy work load. The first priority is to avoid injuries and build him solid or robust for the next season. Ole emphasises long term profit and wouldn’t take risks in order to gain in short term.Looks like it's Lindelof for big games and Bailly for games when the other teams sit deep.
Makes sense.
