I don't get the Haaland stuff. Yes, we know that Ole was pushing for United to sign him even when he was managing him for Molde.He's not the only one with a veto though. Look at the interview and then tell me if SAF would ever have put up with something like that. And people wonder why the recruitment has been bad.
Edit: Ole said he was trying to get them to sign Haaland before he went to City. Did they do it - no. Think how different it could have been if they had.
Doubt it.I thought it was largely reported that John Murtough's cock up that led to Jude eventually making the decision to snub us.
They finished 3rd.Tuchel has proven he can win the biggest prizes at the highest level playing good football. He didn't manage to win the league against a freak invincible team.
His career has dwarved Ten Hag's to date which is why you finding it laughable to say he is an upgrade is absolutely absurd and proves a clear bias.
Who has shown more ability to be a manager at the top level to date, Ten Hag or Tuchel? I'm genuinely fascinated to hear your opinion.
How has Ten Hag done significantly worse than Poch? They’re done as bad as each other. As for Tuchel he just managed to get third in a 1 horse race:Bit of a double standard considering ETH has done significantly worse than both. And I say that as someone who isn't a fan of Pochettino and doesn't want us to hire him.
How was it a one horse race (for Bayern) when the team that won didn't lose a single gameHow has Ten Hag done significantly worse than Poch? They’re done as bad as each other. As for Tuchel he just managed to get third in a 1 horse race:
They both won a trophy. But that's beside the point initially made.And one won a trophy when the other one didn’t.
Last match syndrome. People want Amarabat to stay after one good game.This place is crazy man, Manchester United just had a season in which we finished 8th with a negative GD & went out in the group stages of the CL and half the people want the manager back. Standards are in the gutter
Part of it yes, but not everyone is that simplistic. It is possible that some people are able to simultaneously recognise that the season was terrible and still think he deserves a chance/is currently better than the alternatives to start next season under the new structure, and that not be based on 1 good performance.The poll is 45/54 because we won the FA Cup, that's it.
Well it’s quite a coincidence that it went from 30% to 45% over the last 2 days thenPart of it yes, but not everyone is that simplistic. It is possible that some people are able to simultaneously recognise that the season was terrible and still think he deserves a chance/is currently better than the alternatives to start next season under the new structure, and that not be based on 1 good performance.
Good post - I also think if we keep ETH, everything will be scrutinized too. If things don't go well people will start asking why we didn't go for x, y or z. If McKenna, Tuchel or Poch have a great start to the season that's better than ours, questions will be asked why we just let them go to another club.The FA cup win is glorious. Beating City (even though they looked half drunk) after a horrible horrible season was joyous. Kudos to Ten Hag for finally realizing that the team he built isn't made for progressive football and sitting back & being compact was our best hope for this tie. Beating Liverpool on the way to this cup win makes it sweeter. No can say that we had an easy route to the final like last year's league cup.
However, Ten Hag still need to go. The overall body of work has been far from impressive. The football in the last eighteen months has been horrendous and I don't see it changing very much. Like most decent managers, he can get results when we play as an underdog, but his primary style of football is naive and not suited to this league. It leaves too many gaps in the midfield and leaves the defense vulnerable. On top, his ability to recognize talent needed for this league, his squad management & rotation, his in game management and overall charisma leaves much to be desired. I cannot see us challenging for the big two prizes with him.
INEOS do have a tough decision to make, though. His stock is pretty high at the moment and if the next manager doesn't turn to be good or the new management takes time to get us out of the mess Ten Hag created with his signings then things will get toxic pretty fast. Watch folks who don't like "negativity" act like total wankers everywhere on social media. Every move by the next manager will be scrutinized in the minutest detail and chastised. The press who are after Ten Hag at the moment and don't think he is good enough will most likely do an about turn and criticize us for sacking a manager who won two trophies in two seasons.
They still have to make the decision. If they had decided that a change is warranted before the cup final then they have to go through with it. They can't think about the pressure and the scrutiny that would come from the fans and the media. They have to have conviction in their decision making. Otherwise we'd see redux of the same stupidity we saw under the Glazers and Woody who gave Ole a permanent contract after a good manager bounce and didn't even wait till the end of the season to assess the situation as they had planned.
It's for INEOS to decide if they like the Glazers are happy to see us continue as a yo-yo club that wins an odd trophy. Or they really want to see us back at the top. And maybe they think Ten Hag is the man for that for all we know.
It said it here mockingly, but this is INEOS' big first test. Let's see what happens.
Why does he 'deserve' a chance that our other recently sacked managers didn't get even though he just had a season worse than all of them?Part of it yes, but not everyone is that simplistic. It is possible that some people are able to simultaneously recognise that the season was terrible and still think he deserves a chance/is currently better than the alternatives to start next season under the new structure, and that not be based on 1 good performance.
That's nice. He's had 18 months to tweak it, though. Why are we rolling the dice that this summer it'll suddenly come to him? We can't afford another season like the one we just had. People are way, way too soft with him for some reason.It was executed shit and the tactics themselves certainly needed tweaking. He's the first to admit that - he called the league campaign "crap" by his own words. That's not his standard and it's not his ceiling.
We had a better season than Arsenal.....Why does he 'deserve' a chance that our other recently sacked managers didn't get even though he just had a season worse than all of them?
Absolute bollox. Shaw and Martinez being out shouldn't cause the fecking world to collapse. We lost 3 nil to Bournemouth at home! We got 1 point from Forest! Injuries being an excuse for a £1bn team finishing 8th with negative goal difference is deranged.The fans that want him out will turn on the new guy after about another 2 years and be saying the same things about him. If the club had listened to these, SAF would have been sacked before he ever got going. ETH had terrible luck this year with injuries. That's not his fault, it's just bad luck.
But I thought he was the next Arteta if only given time. What do we want?...We had a better season than Arsenal.....
@simonhch with another banger.Yes because United and Real Madrid are apt comparisons. Christ on a bike. Real Madrid have shown they can win in every way imaginable. This is just a preposterous comparison to make.
I agree that ESPN coverage and punditry is about the worst in the business, but it’s smoke and mirrors to discount the validity of what he was saying just because of where he said it.
The fact is, Ten Hag used yesterdays game to say that having everyone fit, the game showed “what the team was capable of”, and that they were finally able to “play football they way we wanted to”. Well I bloody well hope not. What it showed, if anything was that with everyone fit he was capable of putting a game plan together that could produce a result, but the way we played and how we got that result was surely, surely, not indicative of the type of football we want to play.
This is apparently also a manager that can only produce when all his players are fit - if you listen to him - and can only produce when Martinez is fit - if you listen to the Caf - which is another huge red flag. A good manager has to be able to produce at least a competent performance during an injury crisis, even if no one is expecting you to perform at your best.
It’s also worth remembering, and I pointed this out earlier, to which no one had a reply, but at the start of the season - his second season - we lost 6 of our first 10 games with a nearly full fit squad. That kind of horrendous loss rate continued throughout the season, and was later explained away by some as the result of an injury crisis, but we came out the gate this season losing every other game. Spurs, Arsenal. Bayern, Palace, Brighton and Galatasaray, all turned us over in the first 10 games. We scored 15 and conceded 18 in that period. That run of 4 wins and 6 losses in the first ten games also included the opening day 1-0 over Wolves, where they tore us to pieces and had a stonewall penalty not given, and a very lucky 3-2 win over ten man Forest. So it could have been even worse.
Our form had been dismal since the Carabao cup final win last season, and has stayed pretty consistently poor regardless of personnel.
I think a lot of people, myself certainly, would be happy to give him another season if there were signs of actual progression in the team. There were a fair few people at the end of last season who were ringing alarms bells and saying he was shit, and I very vigorously defended him. I saw enough last season to see he had us moving in the right direction, and put the late season slump down to fatigue. Fatigue from competing on so many fronts (a consequence of success). But we came out of the gates this season looking completely clueless and disorganised with a non-sensical tactical approach. Almost every fan on this forum has been screaming for nearly the entire season about the absurdity of our midfield set up. Yet we win the FA cup with a park the bus performance, and suddenly people are all “give him time”.
I’d LOVE to give him time, IF he had shown any signs this season that he was building something, that he was moving us towards a clear style of play. But he simply hasn’t. He’s persisted with a baffling non-midfield set up, resulting in a record amount of goals and shots on goal conceded, as well as our lowest ever PL finish; and then in the final weeks of the season abandoned that approach for an ultra conservative 4-2-4-0 to win a cup. So what the giddy feck is the plan for next season? Park the bus? Back to tactical seppuku? Something new we haven’t seen yet, meaning we’ve built no foundation over his first two years? No, I’m sorry, but whichever way I shake it, he just doesn’t cut the mustard. He’s developed nothing in the last two years that can be built on. We are basically starting from scratch next season, with or without him, because there is nothing about the way we’ve set up this season that is even remotely usable for next season. That is damning.
The two things I will give him credit for, because a bad manager can do good things, is his consistent commitment to bringing through youth players in a meaningful way (vital for a United manager), and the way he’s handled disciplinary issues - which I fundamentally agree with. The problem is, if you are going to rule with an iron fist - especially in modern football where players are all over paid prima Donna’s - you have to back it up by being successful on the pitch. Otherwise it just doesn’t work.
Without a doubt. All the horrible performances, all the records broken negatively, -1GD and 8th place have been forgotten just like thatThe poll is 45/54 because we won the FA Cup, that's it.
It wasn't open for 18 months, and there are other factors. No ones being too soft, he won back to back trophies for the first time since 16/17 and the alternatives probably wont do better than that. At best back to back top 4.That's nice. He's had 18 months to tweak it, though. Why are we rolling the dice that this summer it'll suddenly come to him? We can't afford another season like the one we just had. People are way, way too soft with him for some reason.
They probably aren't going to sack him while he is on holiday.I wish the club would just either back him or move on, the last thing we want is uncertainty hanging over us going into pre-season.
A big few days coming up for Ineos.
They were also a laughing stock for a large portion of the season and because of that, he was sacked. It's a hard pass from me.Poch finished above Ten Hag with the shitshow that is chelsea, not to mention a massive injury list as well, whilst getting them playing good football to watch,.
Just like that? You mean winning a major trophy against our cross-town rivals, denying them a double.Without a doubt. All the horrible performances, all the records broken negatively, -1GD and 8th place have been forgotten just like that
Yes because United and Real Madrid are apt comparisons. Christ on a bike. Real Madrid have shown they can win in every way imaginable. This is just a preposterous comparison to make.
I agree that ESPN coverage and punditry is about the worst in the business, but it’s smoke and mirrors to discount the validity of what he was saying just because of where he said it.
The fact is, Ten Hag used yesterdays game to say that having everyone fit, the game showed “what the team was capable of”, and that they were finally able to “play football they way we wanted to”. Well I bloody well hope not. What it showed, if anything was that with everyone fit he was capable of putting a game plan together that could produce a result, but the way we played and how we got that result was surely, surely, not indicative of the type of football we want to play.
This is apparently also a manager that can only produce when all his players are fit - if you listen to him - and can only produce when Martinez is fit - if you listen to the Caf - which is another huge red flag. A good manager has to be able to produce at least a competent performance during an injury crisis, even if no one is expecting you to perform at your best.
It’s also worth remembering, and I pointed this out earlier, to which no one had a reply, but at the start of the season - his second season - we lost 6 of our first 10 games with a nearly full fit squad. That kind of horrendous loss rate continued throughout the season, and was later explained away by some as the result of an injury crisis, but we came out the gate this season losing every other game. Spurs, Arsenal. Bayern, Palace, Brighton and Galatasaray, all turned us over in the first 10 games. We scored 15 and conceded 18 in that period. That run of 4 wins and 6 losses in the first ten games also included the opening day 1-0 over Wolves, where they tore us to pieces and had a stonewall penalty not given, and a very lucky 3-2 win over ten man Forest. So it could have been even worse.
Our form had been dismal since the Carabao cup final win last season, and has stayed pretty consistently poor regardless of personnel.
I think a lot of people, myself certainly, would be happy to give him another season if there were signs of actual progression in the team. There were a fair few people at the end of last season who were ringing alarms bells and saying he was shit, and I very vigorously defended him. I saw enough last season to see he had us moving in the right direction, and put the late season slump down to fatigue. Fatigue from competing on so many fronts (a consequence of success). But we came out of the gates this season looking completely clueless and disorganised with a non-sensical tactical approach. Almost every fan on this forum has been screaming for nearly the entire season about the absurdity of our midfield set up. Yet we win the FA cup with a park the bus performance, and suddenly people are all “give him time”.
I’d LOVE to give him time, IF he had shown any signs this season that he was building something, that he was moving us towards a clear style of play. But he simply hasn’t. He’s persisted with a baffling non-midfield set up, resulting in a record amount of goals and shots on goal conceded, as well as our lowest ever PL finish; and then in the final weeks of the season abandoned that approach for an ultra conservative 4-2-4-0 to win a cup. So what the giddy feck is the plan for next season? Park the bus? Back to tactical seppuku? Something new we haven’t seen yet, meaning we’ve built no foundation over his first two years? No, I’m sorry, but whichever way I shake it, he just doesn’t cut the mustard. He’s developed nothing in the last two years that can be built on. We are basically starting from scratch next season, with or without him, because there is nothing about the way we’ve set up this season that is even remotely usable for next season. That is damning.
The two things I will give him credit for, because a bad manager can do good things, is his consistent commitment to bringing through youth players in a meaningful way (vital for a United manager), and the way he’s handled disciplinary issues - which I fundamentally agree with. The problem is, if you are going to rule with an iron fist - especially in modern football where players are all over paid prima Donna’s - you have to back it up by being successful on the pitch. Otherwise it just doesn’t work.
We've been rudderless for more than just this season. To suggest we didn't hobble over the line last season is either disingenuous or the result of some seriously rose-tinted nostalgia goggles. We just don't know what ten Hag wants us to look like and you can't have that at United after 2 years and close to half a billion spent. We've got potential academy worldies that we owe a proper system and structure to.It wasn't open for 18 months, and there are other factors. No ones being too soft, he won back to back trophies for the first time since 16/17 and the alternatives probably wont do better than that. At best back to back top 4.
Let's be fair here mate in any other season he would have probably been sacked by Xmas but for the takeover going through.And that was his stubbornness in thinking it would eventually click like it did with Ajax when everyone doubted him. He should now know the PL is a different beast, but he should also have room to make his mistakes, so long as he keeps us relevant. He did that this year by bringing home the FA Cup.
Agreed!This place is crazy man, Manchester United just had a season in which we finished 8th with a negative GD & went out in the group stages of the CL and half the people want the manager back. Standards are in the gutter. I don’t really care what the market is like & who is available, you have to assess ETH on his own basis and make the decision. How can anyone know what the manager market will be like in December or next summer ? If we keep him then he will be sacked by December anyways and you are basically throwing another season away. There is also the question of transfers this summer, we have wasted so much money on his transfers that I don’t want more of his guys . This guy after two years in charge said this week that if we buy the right players we can be back fighting for top 4 next season , that’s just pathetic imo .
I would say that having 4-5 young players we can build around for the next decade is a lot better than aging strikers, failed wonderkids and one dimensional defenders. Not sure how much credit Ten Hag deserves for it, but we are definitely not needing to build from the ground up again. We have a solid young core.We've been rudderless for more than just this season. To suggest we didn't hobble over the line last season is either disingenuous or the result of some seriously rose-tinted nostalgia goggles. We just don't know what ten Hag wants us to look like and you can't have that at United after 2 years and close to half a billion spent. We've got potential academy worldies that we owe a proper system and structure to.
The alternatives could easily have us in a better place than where we are currently at, be reasonable. We are in the gutter. Saturday doesn't change the fact that we are basically starting from the ground up - again.
That's never made sense to me, he wanted Casemiro. He's admitted that recently.Of course. Because we had Casemiro and McT doing what Deklan Rice or prime N'golo Kante needed to do. And Maguire and Evans not doing what players like Martinez and Virgil van Dijk do. But he played it anyway because he thought to do otherwise was to waste the season and put us back further. .
Yeah he seems to have greatly misjudged tye entire situation alright. He needed to be more adaptable.He thought he could get a tune out of the players he had and he was wrong
