The one big worry has to be how much better we looked in general with Eriksen in there instead of Mount. Just the whole flow, everything looked so much better when we had the ball.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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It’s top 5 this season right?
Might have a bit to do with who we played. Let’s see how we fare at home against relegation candidates when Mount is available.
It's a great win. Time to circle the wagons. The bitter pundits previously playing for other teams are trying to put pressure on referees to give decisions against United to even things out. Enough of this ABU crap. If WE don't support United, who will?
Outside of a few matches where the team was severely blown out they don't give up a lot of goals. It's hard to come back when you don't go behind.
What patterns of play? I see none.
But you can recycle the ball with Steele, Dunk, Webster, Gross, March and Welbeck? Mostly players who played a large chunk of their career in the lower leagues?
You can’t tell me the players Brighton have that are dominating every game with 80% possession are better than ours.
Maybe it's just you.
Potentially. What patterns of play can you see?
Dunk is a good on the ball for a CB, and Groß, March and Welbeck are all comfortable in tight spaces, too. Groß less so, but it's less of an issue when you're surrounded by press resistant players. Like Casemiro at Madrid. Even when he was here and a bit of a meme because of his finishing, Welbeck was always one of our best players at keeping the ball under pressure.
Fact is, Brighton have a lot more players comfortable in tight spaces and under pressure than we do. We have more match winners in Rashford, Bruno, even Casemiro. I don't think we have one player in midfield or attack who excels in that regard, and ten Hag isn't addressing that issue with his transfers. I still say that's the main thing holding him back: terrible transfers. Swap managers and I think De Zerbi faces the same struggles here that ten Hag does. The only way he'd fare better is if we either sort out our recruitment strategy or he himself is better than ten Hag at identifying the right players for his system.
Wolves?
You seriously need to go see am ophthalmologist mate.
I think Ten Hag might eventually stumble onto solutions In house by all accounts it seems he was planning to integrate Mainoo this season who knows he might slot in smoothly and may play greater role than initially envisaged .
Mount might be getting written off but he does possess press resistence to a degree and can play on half turn and then there are some tentative links to Amrabat as well .
Gore and Mejbri could also play part though it seems latter isn't rated at all by Ten Hag . It's not all doom and gloom for me at least .
Maybe. What are the consistent patterns of play you see in our game? Do you have examples?
I agree it's not all doom and gloom. I think ten Hag has shown plenty of promise, but that's why I'm personally so miffed about our transfer window. It's because I do think he's shown that he can potentially build a team capable of challenging. It just needed the right players to be able to kick on to that level which I don't think we got. The youngsters you mentioned are promising but, as we all know, they could go either way so it's best not to expect too much.
As for Amrabat, I've been a fan of his for a good few years now so I'm all for that.
People saying we relied on luck to win... wtf?
First two goals were excellent bits of football, as was the pass to Bruno that led to the red card. Rashford's skill won the penalty.
Also, "there's no movement in the box"... first two goals both come from players making great moves in the box.
There's no patterns of play.... go to YouTube and you'll find loads of analysis videos highlighting the patterns in ten Hag's system. The four four two one about the Spurs game was very interesting. First half we had spurs on toast tactically. Second half we didn't.
First two goals were excellent bits of football, as was the pass to Bruno that led to the red card. Rashford's skill won the penalty.
Also, "there's no movement in the box"... first two goals both come from players making great moves in the box.
There's no patterns of play.... go to YouTube and you'll find loads of analysis videos highlighting the patterns in ten Hag's system. The four four two one about the Spurs game was very interesting. First half we had spurs on toast tactically. Second half we didn't.
I can tell you.
1) Attacking through the flanks - passing patterns aimed at opening up space for wide players to exploit.
2) Building up from the back using a back 3
3) A High, narrow press
4) Fluidity amongst the front 5, constant interchange of positions
5) Inverting wing backs
6) quick transitions after winning the ball high up the pitch
7) The striker stays central and rarely moves into channels
You can see the patterns borne from this. Our player positions are very fluid, with different positions filling into different roles at various points. The back 3 for example can have Casemiro drop in ( so AWB and Shaw/Dalot push up and central) or AWB/Shaw tuck in and Casemiro stay slightly higher to receive the first pass through the middle. Bruno and Eriksen/Mount are very fluid across the attacking 4 of the 4141, they frequently move into channels and tend to operate narrow. You can have instances were both Bruno and Eriksen are on one side of the pitch. Bruno in particular can temporarily swap roles with the right winger, creating spaces and channels to exploit.
In terms of the patterns of play, are they always perfect and effective? no. But they exist. Our press is high and narrow, but based on individuals can be broken with small errors. Our back 3 can provide passing lanes, but if players aren't getting into positions early enough or people in the back 3 are hesitant, it will take longer for the build up to occur. Fluidity in the front 5 and inverting wing backs can lead to gaps on the flanks being exploited if people don't get into position quickly enough. If a full back fails to invert effectively, it can either leave the holding midfielder isolated or provide less passing options for team mates. Turnover of possession can happen, but if poor decisions are made when they occur, you will not get the quality quick transitions required. If the striker you have is poor at holding up the ball, is slow to anticipate chances and is slow to get into the right central positions, you are not going to get a focal point that would allow more touches in the box, bring in team mates and be a constant presence in the box for the wide attacks to connect with ( since we are aiming to attack from the flanks).
Essentially, patterns of play clearly exist, but due to early operational issues, they are not as effective as one would hope for at the moment. The expectation is that given more time with players adapting and key players coming back from injuries, the patterns will become more effective; however they do exist
Really or are you joking?
For me personally, the honeymoon period is over for Erik ten Hag. Last year, there was some progress, but we also struggled away from home. The off-field issues that surround us did not help him last year, where he had 1 recognised striker in Martial, and with owners who didn't spend anything in January.
With all that said, ten Hag has been backed. £400 million pounds in 3 transfer windows is definitely a show of faith from Molerat-Bastards. Good things require time, and adequate time has been given to ten Hag in his first season. Hence, this is the season where ten Hag will earn his corn.
Now, I'm not expecting miracles, but more consistent away performances and a clear pattern of play is what I expect. In the first three games, we didn't see that. In fact, far from it.
Yesterday was all a bit all over the place from where I was sitting. After going 2 down in the opening 4 minutes, we expected a response, and while we responded decently, in my opinion, it was a bit desperate rather than assured, as we were still touching cloth every time they attacked. While I'm not panicking, there is a cause for concern from what I've seen so far, because, by God, we'll face a much better calibre of players this season who will put us to the sword.
But again, ten Hag has undoubtedly been hampered by these bloody molerat-bastards. Now, injuries dictate that they have to get the wallet out and spend further considering we've lost 2 full-backs, let go of a striker (albeit an unknown quantity now), and lost our first XI signing for 6-8 weeks.
I hope in the last 5 days we can get a couple of players in that will help him get top 4 again. Anything short of a midfielder, striker and a loan leftback would be a disaster that squarely lies at the feet of the ginger cretins.
All that said, no matter who we bring in, I don't see us challenging City so it's another bumpy road but - with a bit more luck and consistency - perhaps a smoother one than we had last season.
However, if this season were to go up in flames, I hope everyone's ire will be aimed at our parasite owners that pass off as human beings
With all that said, ten Hag has been backed. £400 million pounds in 3 transfer windows is definitely a show of faith from Molerat-Bastards. Good things require time, and adequate time has been given to ten Hag in his first season. Hence, this is the season where ten Hag will earn his corn.
Now, I'm not expecting miracles, but more consistent away performances and a clear pattern of play is what I expect. In the first three games, we didn't see that. In fact, far from it.
Yesterday was all a bit all over the place from where I was sitting. After going 2 down in the opening 4 minutes, we expected a response, and while we responded decently, in my opinion, it was a bit desperate rather than assured, as we were still touching cloth every time they attacked. While I'm not panicking, there is a cause for concern from what I've seen so far, because, by God, we'll face a much better calibre of players this season who will put us to the sword.
But again, ten Hag has undoubtedly been hampered by these bloody molerat-bastards. Now, injuries dictate that they have to get the wallet out and spend further considering we've lost 2 full-backs, let go of a striker (albeit an unknown quantity now), and lost our first XI signing for 6-8 weeks.
I hope in the last 5 days we can get a couple of players in that will help him get top 4 again. Anything short of a midfielder, striker and a loan leftback would be a disaster that squarely lies at the feet of the ginger cretins.
All that said, no matter who we bring in, I don't see us challenging City so it's another bumpy road but - with a bit more luck and consistency - perhaps a smoother one than we had last season.
However, if this season were to go up in flames, I hope everyone's ire will be aimed at our parasite owners that pass off as human beings
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Great post. Thanks for breaking that down, I’ll have a look out for these in our following games. I think the operational issues you quote have a significant negative effect at the moment. This has been the same since the League Cup Final.
They’re trying to do those things for sure but none of it is working. The build up play, press from the front and wing backs look clueless and our striker in the first 3 games (Rashford+2 and Martial) has been comical.
Mash it all together and it’s a mess that makes the side look amateur level at times, like seriously the opposition are picking the ball up on their own 30 yard line and running straight to our box unopposed, you wouldn’t see that on a Sunday morning
Can I mention how small this side is as well? It’s a team full of midgets, there’s little to no physicality and our set pieces both in attack and defence will cost us massively this season
We played like idiots in the last 10, we managed to have no control with a man extra. Gave the ball away too regularly, and gave them free kicks
That's why I'm saying give it time. We didn't see this last season, particularly that first goal.
The build up was fine in this game. I think that issue had more to do with Onana coming in. Licha and Varane were overthinking the build up with Onana coming in, which made it slow but also a bit unbalanced. That has been worked out now. Today, Casemiro slotted in frequently to the back 3 to join Licha and Varane.
The pressing from the front was also tweaked today. We weren't as aggressive and were more structured, sticking to the shape. Our press has actually been very good this season in all the games. The issue hasn't been the press, but rather the recovery from the press when it's broken. It requires intelligence and hard work from the wingers to track back. Garnacho didn't do this well in the first two games. Add that to Shaw struggling to invert effectively, and it led to massive gaps on the flanks, particularly the left flank.
This then also affected the midfield with Mount, as Mount was forced to try and cover Garnacho, which left the centre a lot more exposed. All of these are fixable and just need time. Its quite clear that our preseason wasn't as effective as we would have liked. There still seems to be a few fitness issues lurking.
The one problem that may not be as easy to fix is our attack. We depend on our flanks, because we attack from there. In the first two games, both Garnacho and Antony were terrible. Garnacho in particular was horrendous, people clearly find it easier to focus on Antony, but it was Garnacho who was truly terrible. We need a lot more out of our attackers, at the moment, they are offering nothing ( well until today from Rashford and Antony). They are depending heavily on or midfielders to create for them, but that shouldn't be the case. They should be winning duels and attacking spaces with easy which should lead to easy chances. They have the spaces to exploit and in truth, Bruno has actually been excellent creatively this season, so has been finding them. They've been squandering attack after attack and have shown consistently poor decision making, especially as opposed to other top teams. Hopefully Amad and Rasmus returning helps in this regard, hopefully we can also get more from Sancho, but as at this moment, the attack is the true issue.
The overloads on the wings or our midfielders making runs into the box for example. Or AWB getting into the box like a forward. Or our FBs moving into the midfield. Or a poster above has listed out quite well imo.
Joking aside tbh I'd admit it's actually quite hard to notice the patterns of play under ETH because his football is fecking complicated with players exchange positions and responsibilities on a regular basis. Tbh most of the time I have no idea who's supposed to do what anymore. Unlike under the previous managers when it's pretty easy to see that. It's difficult for us the common folks to notice and understand those stuffs. So it also is for the opponent defenders and managers especially within the match. The whole purpose is to surprise them, create situational overloads and then create chances. So far we do create a lot of chances so whatever his tactic or 'patterns of play' it's quite working imo. It's actually our finishing and our physical conditions that let us down. And Michael Oliver the fecking cnut.
I actually don’t think this is true, and if it was the info would be everywhere. But no one seems to know for sure?
Maybe he needs a possession coach with him so he can implement that pass and move style alongside the other things he wants from them.
We passed and moved pretty well vs Forest.
Our possession play was actually good(bar the last 10 minutes).
There is an extra spot for the 2 countries with the highest co-efficient this season, if we're struggling to make 4th then we may need City to go deep in the CL again to get us in in if we finish 5th.
Sorry but this is just tolerating mediocrity, to be honest, we should be demanding that standards be raised and get maintained at a higher level. Ten men Nottingham Forest dared to attack us at Old Trafford and instead of punishing them the team held on for dear life and we find that acceptable! We must demand better.
On the other hand, our pressing wasn’t as good. We completely stifled Spurs in the first half, we didn’t press as high yesterday. I think it’s not possible with Martial and Eriksen in there.
I think hanging on for dear life is somewhat of an exaggeration. Forrest and throw everything at it and we defended that. We were in full control for 85% of the game.
i see arsenal dropped points to 10 man Fulham late on, it happens.
i see arsenal dropped points to 10 man Fulham late on, it happens.
Saw this earlier
Points in their first 40 Premier league games..
Pep - 82
ETH - 78
klopp - 71
Arteta - 63
Points in their first 40 Premier league games..
Pep - 82
ETH - 78
klopp - 71
Arteta - 63
Well your point is great on paper, but football isn't played on one. Yesterday arsenal gave up their lead to a 10-man Fulham team. Life isn't perfect. Rashford had a great chance on the counter if he could have passed the ball instead of shooting.
And we are missing a bunch of players: our main striker is injured, and a backup played for first time in ages, both our LBs , first choice midfilder and Mainoo in midfield, Amad. Besides our two key players (rashford & Casemiro) are out of form and are known to get started slowly in a new season.
I was amongst those raising questions about the performance and managers tactics in the first two games but not against Nottingham forest.
It is a major concern that ETH seems ok to sign small, slow technical players. The loss of Shaw will exacerbate this but hopefully Höjlund can hit the ground running and contribute some physicality. Not least CM is crying out for some pace and power.
Who is small and slow?
We need more technical players, not Maguires and McTominays.
Over the years on here I’ve heard this exact same thing for Moyes. LVG, Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick.
There is something massively wrong at this club
Yeah it's called those leeching ownersOver the years on here I’ve heard this exact same thing for Moyes. LVG, Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick.
There is something massively wrong at this club
Thinking that managers can overcome bad recruitment. It's always the players on the pitch that matter most.Over the years on here I’ve heard this exact same thing for Moyes. LVG, Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick.
There is something massively wrong at this club
There’s definitely cause for concern regarding the midfield, and Ten Hag takes some responsibility for our erratic start, but there are still some seriously fecking stupid players at this club. This actually includes some of our better ones.
There’s no manager on this planet who can account for the level of idiocy we watched in the first five minutes yesterday. These players are brain dead.
There’s no manager on this planet who can account for the level of idiocy we watched in the first five minutes yesterday. These players are brain dead.
The managers are responsible for the bad recruitment