Because of our crippling injury crises? The man played Pellestri away to Bayern.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
None of them would be as good as Rashford or Antony on the wings.
Yeah I think quite a few people will agree to disagree on that.
Always been a ETH supporter, i wanted him in the first place and thought we did well last season, but were still heavily reliant on Rashford for goals, Casemiro to hold things together in the middle and De Gea who literally won us so many points home and away. The two concerns for me last year was our apparent lack of any particular style of play, and our away form. i did feel the players were with him though.
This year pre-season was very poor, players didnt look fit or focused and this is on the manager and his coaching staff.
Decisions to remove De Gea were brave but im not so sure this was a popular choice with the players.
His staunch support of consistent underperformers like Bruno, Rashford and Anthony is starting to rile fans now.
And there is still huge question marks about our style of play, we dont control games, we cannot keep the ball, we are still on minus goal difference too which tells you the probs we have.
In his favour, he has had to deal with some ugly situations, Greenwood, Sancho, Anthony on playing side, the uncertainty of the takeover and a ruck load of injuries but even some of his most staunch supporters must begin now to doubt the progress being made based on this season's performances
There are arguments that the players are to blame, they get new contracts they down tools, they dont like favouritism in the squad, they dont like what's happening at the club to them and other players/ex players--- that all said a club is only as good as those who run it and make the decisions and we all know the issues there.
For me, we need to stand by the manager, sacking managers all the time is not the answer, we just need a clear defined style of play and this is something he needs to work on with the players he has.
The fans need something to get excited about again, the team performances have been trash, ETH must fix this and fix this quick.
This year pre-season was very poor, players didnt look fit or focused and this is on the manager and his coaching staff.
Decisions to remove De Gea were brave but im not so sure this was a popular choice with the players.
His staunch support of consistent underperformers like Bruno, Rashford and Anthony is starting to rile fans now.
And there is still huge question marks about our style of play, we dont control games, we cannot keep the ball, we are still on minus goal difference too which tells you the probs we have.
In his favour, he has had to deal with some ugly situations, Greenwood, Sancho, Anthony on playing side, the uncertainty of the takeover and a ruck load of injuries but even some of his most staunch supporters must begin now to doubt the progress being made based on this season's performances
There are arguments that the players are to blame, they get new contracts they down tools, they dont like favouritism in the squad, they dont like what's happening at the club to them and other players/ex players--- that all said a club is only as good as those who run it and make the decisions and we all know the issues there.
For me, we need to stand by the manager, sacking managers all the time is not the answer, we just need a clear defined style of play and this is something he needs to work on with the players he has.
The fans need something to get excited about again, the team performances have been trash, ETH must fix this and fix this quick.
10th place?
You’d be as good as Antony
I might be hoping too much, but weve been missing our starting back 4 pretty much all season so far, and this also obviously has a massive impact on a new goalkeeper. No club is going to be playing to a high standard with their back 4 out as much as we have. We signed reguilon as an emergency, and then he got injured! I've worries about how clueless we look in attack too, but things will surely improve when defence is someway settled
That was his choice. Could have played Pellestri against Brighton and gone with the more defensive setup against Bayern. Throwing Pellestri into the deep end was highly questionable. A player he's been reluctant to use but started him in our hardest fixture this season... Bizarre.
I’d stick Martial out left for a few games and leave Rashford on the bench
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Yeah, because they've been absolutely great. 3 goals involvement for Antony in last 365 days is a great return, undroppable quality.
He's even worse.
Yeah but Pellestri didn’t play that well and was dropped soon after
I’m just pointing out the options, you can’t really say drop underperforming players then say playing their replacements is throwing them in the deep end. Usually this season what we have on the pitch is all we have
Imagine being in Pellestris shoes watching our attack be utter shit and only be given 5mins on the odd occasion but then being thrown in the deep end away to Bayern. On top of that the Manager says that his world class opponent is shit at defending. Its just bad management. If he thought Pellestri was an option then surely you give him a bit of time on the pitch prior to that game? Or give him the easier games and use your seniors against Bayern.
Just seemed like he chucked him in as a last resort.
Klopp earned the time he was given by winning the CL and PL. ETH has no such credit in the bank.
He pretty much used up all of his credit for the first two thirds of the season in 22/23 in the last third where we were dreadful.
I don’t trust that ETH’s knows what to do to get us competing at the top of the table. He’s shown nothing that even gives that type of confidence in him. From player recruitment to tactical setup. He doesn’t even seem like the personality to lead a weak group back to the top, he lacks the charisma.
He still has the chance to turn things around once all our players return but I seriously doubt he has what it takes to get us to where we want.
Chelsea look better every single match though. They play more and more like a Pochettino team, their movement is more familiar - players are becoming familiar with their roles. With a proper striker like Osimhen up top they would have beat Arsenal comfortably, they dominated play for much of the game. If they keep going like this they will be a real force after the January window.
Regardless of injuries, we just don't look like a very well coached team.
It’s on the verge of clicking at Chelsea they’re top of the XG charts and are creating tons of chances. I’d be surprised if they finish below us this season.
You can see a style of play and plan at the very least. Chelsea’s biggest crime is spending a billion quid and not buying a top striker.
We were what? 5 games in at that stage? Unless you’re not giving our attackers a chance to fail then it’s near impossible for any back up attacker to get more minutes. He played well in training to the point he kept Sancho at home and got his chance by playing well off the bench. There isn’t much more you can ask of Pellestri or even the manager himself imo.
There’s a lot we can have a go at Ten Hag for but not thrusting youngsters into the deep end during an almost terminal injury crisis shouldn’t be one of them.
We do need to see if things improve when the injury list looks more normal. However, how long after that arbitrary time will he get in the eyes of fans? Not long id assume. Rightly or wrongly his coaching will be under even more scrutiny.
Ah - we’re back to the “Pellistri should be starting games ETH is clueless” part of the criticism cycle. Exciting.
Only at Manchester United, it takes a millennium to get the team sorted. Every other competent team can do it in a month or so...
We've never really hit any performance heights under Ten Hag, and pretty much since Feb/Mar we have been awful.
He hasn't done much with the existing players, his new picks seem mostly a waste, and he himself is stubborn and ineffective.
At this point in time I'd say only Moyes was a worse post-Fergie manager.
We've never really hit any performance heights under Ten Hag, and pretty much since Feb/Mar we have been awful.
He hasn't done much with the existing players, his new picks seem mostly a waste, and he himself is stubborn and ineffective.
At this point in time I'd say only Moyes was a worse post-Fergie manager.
This thread is so toxic that if you dive deep into it, you'll become the Joker.
We got it, every win we had is because of player's brilliance, every loss we had is because of ETH.
We got it, every win we had is because of player's brilliance, every loss we had is because of ETH.
pElLiStRi WiLl SoLvE aLl OuR pRoBlEmS
I bet someone will come in here soon and say "Just promote Shea Lacey to the first team and give him a chance, surely it can't get any worse?", which will probably make my head fecking explode.
I don't think that Pellistri will solve our problems but there are definitely players that are afforded the luxury of stinking up the place and "playing themselves into form". Others barely get a sniff once they've had their shite halves of football (if they even get that).
It's not like Anthony is having noticeably more of an impact on games. A lot of the talk around him is he puts in a shift or he holds his position well, helps the shape of the team or he needs a better right back to unlock him. The price tag isn't his fault but it should be factored in. We could have got a right back and right winger with the same statistical output for the same outlay. For that money you want much more than he's a tactical pressing beast.
If it wasn't for external circumstances forcing his hand would Ten Hag have dropped him? The whole meritocracy being reinstated last year seems increasingly more bullshit with each passing game.
It's not like Anthony is having noticeably more of an impact on games. A lot of the talk around him is he puts in a shift or he holds his position well, helps the shape of the team or he needs a better right back to unlock him. The price tag isn't his fault but it should be factored in. We could have got a right back and right winger with the same statistical output for the same outlay. For that money you want much more than he's a tactical pressing beast.
If it wasn't for external circumstances forcing his hand would Ten Hag have dropped him? The whole meritocracy being reinstated last year seems increasingly more bullshit with each passing game.
I think compared to previous managers, especially OGS the Ronaldo years, ETH provides a much improved play. The attemps, the times players are in opposition box, its all much more than under OGS.
I agree ETH made some mistakes, maybe buying Mount with limited funds wasnt the best idea but who would have though a 2 time Champions league Finalist onana would have such a bad time? Sacking ETH will only make problems bigger. In fact, I do believe the Glazers are at fault for not selling and handing over before 23/24 pre-season. Hojland, Amrabat shouldv been signed much earlier.
If not maybe United should hire 2 or 3 managers, and just take a number out of the hat each weekend who will be the boss? Saves a lot in sacking costs.
I agree ETH made some mistakes, maybe buying Mount with limited funds wasnt the best idea but who would have though a 2 time Champions league Finalist onana would have such a bad time? Sacking ETH will only make problems bigger. In fact, I do believe the Glazers are at fault for not selling and handing over before 23/24 pre-season. Hojland, Amrabat shouldv been signed much earlier.
If not maybe United should hire 2 or 3 managers, and just take a number out of the hat each weekend who will be the boss? Saves a lot in sacking costs.
I get wanting to drop players who continue to have bad games like Rashford or Bruno. But do people really think a new manager will come in and bench them straight away? The players have more power than anyone there. At best you might get a small performance boost out of them but within 6 months they'd be the same shit again and still undroppable.
Well, Barcelona would probably use Lacey
I've mentioned it on this thread before but I find the lack of draws under him worthy of noting.
Of the 74 games he's managed us, we've only drawn 9 times, or about 12% of games. He has a decent win percentage (63.5% which is notably higher than any other Post-Fergie manager) but the problem is when we don't win then more often than not we lose.
I'd put that down to a lack of pragmatism, which is something the team need to learn as a couple of draws this season (we currently have 0) would put us 2 places further up the table.
For reference here are the other draw rates for previous managers:
Rangnick 34%
Solskjaer 22%
Mourinho 22%
Van Gaal 24%
Moyes 18%
For reference, Klopp is also 22% and Arteta around 16%. Pep is the closest at 13% but he also wins most of his games (72%)
Of the 74 games he's managed us, we've only drawn 9 times, or about 12% of games. He has a decent win percentage (63.5% which is notably higher than any other Post-Fergie manager) but the problem is when we don't win then more often than not we lose.
I'd put that down to a lack of pragmatism, which is something the team need to learn as a couple of draws this season (we currently have 0) would put us 2 places further up the table.
For reference here are the other draw rates for previous managers:
Rangnick 34%
Solskjaer 22%
Mourinho 22%
Van Gaal 24%
Moyes 18%
For reference, Klopp is also 22% and Arteta around 16%. Pep is the closest at 13% but he also wins most of his games (72%)
Evenso, the for goals are almost half of the top 6-8. The upcoming games should really sow shome 2-3 plus goal difference wins excluding the city game but if not, I dont see ETH make it to xmass.
You think Martial would last a few games!!
Garnacho's not ready to start regularly, yet.
The problem is the alternatives.
Neither Garnacho nor Pellestri are ready to start regularly. There's not really anyone else to play those positions (Mount possibly on the right?).
How can problem be something we haven't tried?
But we've tried.
When Garnacho starts he gets bullied out of the game.
Pellistri just runs around like headless chicken.
When Garnacho starts he gets bullied out of the game.
Pellistri just runs around like headless chicken.
Garnacho has only had one PL start this season no?
I watched a stream that had Ruud Gullitt as a pundit on Saturday. It may have been to a SouthAfrican audience. Anyway, post match he said the problem is he is trying to play 433 (like he did at Ajax) but his wing play is not servicing the main striker. Both Rashford and Antony "like to come in" and both can not cross to save their lives.
The only player that we have that is capable of crossing is at Getafe.
I think if he gets fully fit and impresses in training, Amad must surely have role in the side?
The only player that we have that is capable of crossing is at Getafe.
I think if he gets fully fit and impresses in training, Amad must surely have role in the side?
Last year after two games we saw pragmatic Ten Hag for the rest of the season. This season he is pushing through implementing a playstyle even though it has cost us points.
I have no problem with a low number of draws. A win and a loss generates more points than two draws. The draw percentage should stay low.
We do need more composure to protect (and extend) leads, which Ten Hag mentiones frequently in press conferences.
We have been struggling with that for sure.
I agree with this but think Ten Hag is to blame for trying to play a 433 with bad options as wingers.
I actually don't much rate Amad either.