Oh absolutely. I saw our back four and immediately chucked £15 in a depressingly predictable bet builder.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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Oh absolutely. I saw our back four and immediately chucked £15 in a depressingly predictable bet builder.
The players you mentioned are ones he trusts and plays whenever they are available. The only bullshit thing is treating someone like Rashford as not one of his guys when he's indispensable for Ten Hag and played a huge role in us finishing top 4 and winning that cup last season, yet he's not "his player".
Clutching at straws, basically.Also no, Scott playing isn't a squad rotation. He has been a main starter for about 2 months now while Mount and Amrabat are warming the bench for him despite being his main midfielders signings last summer. More like he realized his signings are crap and resorted back to Scott McTominay, which is ultimately Ten Hag's fault for choosing players to begin with. Scott starting ahead of Mount instead of him trying to play Mount into form like how he has been doing for Rashford since the season has started proves that in how own mind Ten Hag doesn't have any time it patience for Mount, his biggest signing last summer, to start performing. He's not forced to start McTominay.
He bought half of the current main lineup and the other half are mostly indispensable for him whenever they are available. You basically want the guy to come in and buy 11 new players that he picks in starting lineup and consider any player he didn't bought as being forced on him. That's pretty dumb way of thinking. No manager will walk in and replace the entire team just to be "his team". Bring me examples of this?
Klopp basically did this to be fair. I remember arguing against people that said klopp took a team and improved the players when basically instead he changed the entire first elevenThe players you mentioned are ones he trusts and plays whenever they are available. The only bullshit thing is treating someone like Rashford as not one of his guys when he's indispensable for Ten Hag and played a huge role in us finishing top 4 and winning that cup last season, yet he's not "his player".
Also no, Scott playing isn't a squad rotation. He has been a main starter for about 2 months now while Mount and Amrabat are warming the bench for him despite being his main midfielders signings last summer. More like he realized his signings are crap and resorted back to Scott McTominay, which is ultimately Ten Hag's fault for choosing players to begin with. Scott starting ahead of Mount instead of him trying to play Mount into form like how he has been doing for Rashford since the season has started proves that in how own mind Ten Hag doesn't have any time it patience for Mount, his biggest signing last summer, to start performing. He's not forced to start McTominay.
He bought half of the current main lineup and the other half are mostly indispensable for him whenever they are available. You basically want the guy to come in and buy 11 new players that he picks in starting lineup and consider any player he didn't bought as being forced on him. That's pretty dumb way of thinking. No manager will walk in and replace the entire team just to be "his team". Bring me examples of this?
I appreciate the outlook and positive stats here. Some of these definitely get lost in the chaos. However, it seems ETH knows how to win the ball back high up the pitch but potentially doesn't know how to implement a style that will move the ball quickly and create a solid chance. I mean I do agree that it is obvious were winning the ball in key areas only to inevitably be frustrated when the play breaks down 2 seconds later. Due to a misplaced pass, a cutback or shot from distance when other players were in better positions. Etc.
We've been rather terrible at scoring goals (for a multitude of reasons) as a team since he's been the manager and that doesn't seem to be improving. If he can fix that problem some of the outlook here may change. But for now we're left frustrated and stuck comparing United to City and Liverpool who score goals for fun. And we're also left wondering about all the "what if's" just as the author of the Guardian article put it in that quoted last paragraph.
Pretty much this./The players you mentioned are ones he trusts and plays whenever they are available. The only bullshit thing is treating someone like Rashford as not one of his guys when he's indispensable for Ten Hag and played a huge role in us finishing top 4 and winning that cup last season, yet he's not "his player".
Also no, Scott playing isn't a squad rotation. He has been a main starter for about 2 months now while Mount and Amrabat are warming the bench for him despite being his main midfielders signings last summer. More like he realized his signings are crap and resorted back to Scott McTominay, which is ultimately Ten Hag's fault for choosing players to begin with. Scott starting ahead of Mount instead of him trying to play Mount into form like how he has been doing for Rashford since the season has started proves that in how own mind Ten Hag doesn't have any time it patience for Mount, his biggest signing last summer, to start performing. He's not forced to start McTominay.
He bought half of the current main lineup and the other half are mostly indispensable for him whenever they are available. You basically want the guy to come in and buy 11 new players that he picks in starting lineup and consider any player he didn't bought as being forced on him. That's pretty dumb way of thinking. No manager will walk in and replace the entire team just to be "his team". Bring me examples of this?
I don’t spend time on other forums but are other fanbases so cucked. Since when was it against the rules of coaching for a manager to come in to a club & improve players? I like EtH but the people making excuses for him are actually wearing me down.
Antony, Mount, Eriksen, Malacia, Martinez, Onana, Amrabat. Bar Hojlund & Casemiro (who wasn’t his preferred signing) EtH has bought players that are clearly phys not up to a 38 game season at the top level. I list Onana because he’s ‘small’ for a goalkeeper. EtH seemingly still hasn’t come to terms with what profile of payer succeeds in the league so giving him more money would be foolish.
But he had some players overperform until they were replaced though. Klopp had some shockers that people look past but he made players better also.
Maybe he made a few better but still not good enough, he took over in was it 2015 and I think the champions league was his first trophy in 2019 once the entire team had been changed.
I’m not using this as a time equals success argument. It’s also quite bad because we’ve changed half of our first 11 since ten hag came in and the players brought in don’t look anywhere near good enough or will need replacing again
Everton A - dog
Galatasaray A - dog
Newcastle A - dog
Chelsea H - dog
Bourmouth H - I didn't even know he played running back, he's a dog
Bayern H - dog
Liverpool A - dog
West Ham A - dog
Aston villa - dog
Forest A - dog
Galatasaray A - dog
Newcastle A - dog
Chelsea H - dog
Bourmouth H - I didn't even know he played running back, he's a dog
Bayern H - dog
Liverpool A - dog
West Ham A - dog
Aston villa - dog
Forest A - dog
But he did make them ’good enough’, ‘good enough’ for him to keep his job & for the team to evolve by buying more players.
If the current form under EtH continues we’ll never see the starting 11 of his dreams because he’ll be gone. Managers rarely come into a ready made situation, what we were sold with EtH was the first few years would be a mix of performance & results, I never thought we were a Harry Kane away but the football is gross & results unsustainable.
My biggest concern with EtH are the profile of players he’s recruiting. The squad lacks leadership so he buys Mason Mount & a 20 year old striker. Onana isn’t a leader & Amrabat simply isn’t very good. He’s been here a year & has learnt little.
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I don’t disagree with any of that really.
when I said good enough, I meant Good enough to win anything meaningful. He clearly did enough to keep his job
Hmm I guess it really depends on the new guys at the top that will be running the footballing side of the club. Because we've seen instances before where it's expected that a manager gets to the end of the season no matter what and then the results/performances crater so hard that the noise is too much and we sack them.
You prediction will be surely off significantly if only considering the result of every game, because there are too many draws. We rarely end up with draw. But the points might be close. We might win three or four games and lost all the others in the league.
I admire you, honestly, your optimism. That’s a treasure. No kidding.
Mate you're turning this into another debate. I'm not saying he doesn't trust my named players. I'm saying he's obligated to trust them because unlike your lie, this is NOT his squad.The players you mentioned are ones he trusts and plays whenever they are available. The only bullshit thing is treating someone like Rashford as not one of his guys when he's indispensable for Ten Hag and played a huge role in us finishing top 4 and winning that cup last season, yet he's not "his player".
Also no, Scott playing isn't a squad rotation. He has been a main starter for about 2 months now while Mount and Amrabat are warming the bench for him despite being his main midfielders signings last summer. More like he realized his signings are crap and resorted back to Scott McTominay, which is ultimately Ten Hag's fault for choosing players to begin with. Scott starting ahead of Mount instead of him trying to play Mount into form like how he has been doing for Rashford since the season has started proves that in how own mind Ten Hag doesn't have any time it patience for Mount, his biggest signing last summer, to start performing. He's not forced to start McTominay.
He bought half of the current main lineup and the other half are mostly indispensable for him whenever they are available. You basically want the guy to come in and buy 11 new players that he picks in starting lineup and consider any player he didn't bought as being forced on him. That's pretty dumb way of thinking. No manager will walk in and replace the entire team just to be "his team". Bring me examples of this?
Him playing McT over Mount doesn't mean it's his squad. It means one of his signings means more time and that's extremely common if you consider how various players have needed to settle, from Thiago to Cancelo to Fabinho to Grealish.
Amrabat has made 10 apps and already played around 600 minutes for us despite joining injured and needing to get into the rhythm of the squad. You're acting like he's never used which is just bullshit (again).
This is not his squad, so you can't go out and lie that it is. As you put, that is a pretty dumb way of thinking. You can't throw around these terms after your own posts which are commonly classed on this forum as bipolar.
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Responsibility for what specifically. Do you know what is being debated?
Yes he takes responsibility for the performance of his signings. No he does not have his own squad, given he's obligated to pick 6-8 players that he didn't actually buy. McTominay is the only one who he is voluntarily picking over one or two new signings whereas Lindelof, Maguire, Dalot, wan bissaka, Rashford, martial are all inherited.
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Also you, don't make dumb opinions as you call other people's opinions dumb way of thinking.
What threshold will make this squad his? 23 players?
You're very delusional if you think this is not ETH squad.
Only the defence he has not 'properly' address but he has bought a new keeper, a new CB, 3 midfielders, 1 right winger, 1 striker.
Only Fullbacks, 1 more CB, and Left wing he has not bought a player there.
ETH has been massively backed. He's lucky a new regime is coming as they will back him even more.
Read the posts better - he brought in the "dumb way of thinking line" first, not me.
Do you know what a squad is by the way? Sorry for the patronising question but it needs to be asked. Saying this is his squad before accepting a third of his outfield positions (together with a left winger who is inherited) aren't actually his shows you don't really know the answer.
Also this idea that he's been able to build a squad is just crazy. Do you lot really think if he had money to spend to build his squad over two windows (no fecking manager can do this who isn't state backed anyway), he'd choose to buy Amrabat? The man was a Loan. He's obligated to dumpster dive for budget signings and then we see lazy posters who give bipolar opinions shout at him for not choosing them.
You want to crticisie his pick of Mount or Antony fair fecks. But that doesn't mean he's not using any of his signings and it doesn't mean the entire squad is his own so don't make shit up
Yeah he bought half of the main lineup but it's not his team. He needs to replace Varane, Shaw, Bruno and Rashford to make it his team.
So now we are getting somewhere. You've understood the difference between a squad and a first XI, and you also understand that he hasn't bought a whole new one.
The only thing I'm understanding is that you are asking for the manager to come in and buy a full new starting lineup to make it his team which is dumb no matter how you look into it but gives you additional excuses to defend him. If he buys 10 starting players and leaves Rashford on the pitch it won't be his team.
Good morning buddy.
No, you can't follow posts well if you think that's what I said.The only thing I'm understanding is that you are asking for the manager to come in and buy a full new starting lineup to make it his team which is dumb no matter how you look into it but gives you additional excuses to defend him. If he buys 10 starting players and leaves Rashford on the pitch it won't be his team.
Good morning buddy.
I'm just calling you out for literally making shit up and being overly extreme in your posts again.
Good morning my friend
No, you can't follow posts well if you think that's what I said.
I'm just calling you out for literally making shit up and being overly extreme in your posts again.
Good morning my friend
Have a nice day.
That's a moot point, though. He could buy 50 players with 400m to spend, and make the squad plus the reserve all his "players", but he chose not to.
Let's go into these soundbites. He inherited a squad where around 10 squad /match day players left. He also had holes in the existing team, ie no striker, no real back up striker, no right winger, a midfield duo commonly trashed each time they started together and an entire back 5 incabable of playing a high line with attacking interchanges bar Shaw (and Varane, but he's made of glass).
The 400m line is thrown around like it's a huge sum of money but it's not going to fix those holes in today's market. A top striker is more than 100m alone. So is an absolute top single midfielder.
The Antony signing is a royal feck up but guess what, he's not 400m.
Back to your quote, I don't see how its a moot point because all I said is it's not "his squad". He's obligated to play so many players he inherited, not least since most of his signings have often been injured or unavailable.
ETH has made some shrewd purchases in Hojlund, Onana and Casemiro. You can see that the club is now better with these players.
Amazing discussion... EtH is manager of Manchester United, so the squad of Manchester United is his squad to work with. He is responsible getting results and for that it doesn't matter how many of the players he inherited or bought himself.
We can discuss whether the squad is good enough and whether he made it better or not, and we can discuss if he gets this squad performing on a level it should looking at the player quality. But claiming that this isn’t his squad is just a lame excuse
We can discuss whether the squad is good enough and whether he made it better or not, and we can discuss if he gets this squad performing on a level it should looking at the player quality. But claiming that this isn’t his squad is just a lame excuse
He chose not to make it his "squad". He knew a club like United has budget constraint.
Buying 50-75m players (or top players) only, so that can be part of his "squad", he'd be a lesser manager than I thought. If you're right.
Thats actually not true. Some of our FFP issues came because of sponsorship renewal issues and the regulators not taking kindly to our losses in covid years for which we expected more leniancy (there was an article from Athletic if I recall, where the club were disappointed by that from FFP regulators).
Also he couldn't predict ronaldos situation and needing to dumpster dive in January with a 2m budget for a striker. Every manager comes in expecting constraints but he has both made mistakes and been dealt a very tricky hand.
Don’t you know? Unless you have signed all 25 players in a squad, then it’s not your squad and by extension you bear absolutely no responsibility for the performances and results.
Sarcasm aside, the discussion of whether the squad is good enough is also a judgement on the manager. He made 11 permanent signings in 15 months (after having previously won a boardroom battle to oust Rangnick and the previous scouting team) most of which were his personal choices.
If the team is playing/performing too poorly for its quality level, tha’s squarely with him. And if the squad quality is poor, then that’s at least partly on him. There’s just no way he can be rationally shielded from all criticism.
EDIT: Also it’s insteresting to hear the rational explanation of why the more the team becomes “his” the worse it is performing.
He had 200m to spend every season. That's far away from FFP constraint.
And Ronaldo issue was done early half of last season. He wasn't that good anymore anyway. Most of us wanted him gone, as people agreed that "he prevented us playing ten Hag ball, and made the team playing worse". So why using him as excuse?
200m doesn't actually fill as many gaps as you might expect in one window, if you want say a top striker and a top midfielder then that's the money gone.
I disagree most of us wanted Ronaldo gone when ten hag came in. He was our top scorer.
We just made the worst start to a league campaign in over 60 years?
With god knows how many injuries, player problems (Sancho, Antony), and uncertainty over the ownership. And yet, we are only 6 points off second place. Performance wise we are shit but considering everything, we really are not that bad in terms of where we are placed in the table.
We have? In the post-SAF era alone, we've had fewer (or the same, just once) than 21 points after 12 games in 6/10 previous campaigns. Not that this excuses our current form or the quality of the performances, but who makes this stuff up? Is it a Social Media thing, people creating narratives to ride the current trends? Also, it's quite interesting that half of these seasons don't fall into the "wheels came off" category.
That was only true after about 5 games; certainly not anymore. This season has felt painful, but at the moment it's actually the third best start in the last six league seasons. In fact going back over the the 11 years since Fergie retired, only four times have we had more than 21 points after 12 games (plus another time with the same points but better goal difference).
At this point in the last 11 seasons:
13/14 - 21 points
14/15 - 19 points
15/16 - 24 points
16/17 - 19 points
17/18 - 26 points
18/19 - 20 points
19/20 - 16 points
20/21 - 23 points
21/22 - 17 points
22/23 - 23 points
23/24 - 21 points
It's the cup games which really hurts this season, losing 4 of the 6 games in the CL and EFL Cup.
Edit: Actually it wasn't even true after five games. 14/15 we were worse off with only 5 points as opposed to the 6 we had this season.
I wouldn't bother mate the guy you're replying to is a lunatic.
What you've highlighted though about points by season is very valid and completely ignored by people who should know better (ie, journalists, pundits and our own fans)
What's more significant to me also is how far we are off top spot in each of those seasons, as the context is important. For example, in 17/18 and 22/23 we were 8 points behind top spot after 12 games and this season we're 7 points behind.
Even saying that, 12 games is relatively few to judge on. We were 2 points behind at this stage in 15/16 and finished 15 points behind Leicester. It's all just sound bites and ammo to attack the club and increase the pressure.
Well if Noel demands his sacking, who are we to disagree
Ten Hag sack demand at Man Utd made as Noel Gallagher picks shock Premier League boss as successor (msn.com)
Ten Hag sack demand at Man Utd made as Noel Gallagher picks shock Premier League boss as successor (msn.com)
I don’t think you can call this Ten Hag’s squad yet, although it is slowly moving in the right direction.
New signings: Casemiro isn’t exactly a Ten Hag player either.
Now we see players like McTominay and Maguire playing themselves into the side, also not Ten Hag players.
It does not matter, he has to manage them and win games. But to claim he now has his squad is silly.
New signings: Casemiro isn’t exactly a Ten Hag player either.
Now we see players like McTominay and Maguire playing themselves into the side, also not Ten Hag players.
It does not matter, he has to manage them and win games. But to claim he now has his squad is silly.
I disagree with that ! if you sign 5 players you expect them to turn the situation to your side
I've been busy recently, but when I looked at the league table, we are only 7 points behind City who are first, the teams ahead of us dropped alot of points too which makes it respectable.
I know we are shit right now but there is a chance to salvage the league (as in secure top 4)
I know we are shit right now but there is a chance to salvage the league (as in secure top 4)