Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[Rista]

United didn’t need to agree to it, why do you think they did? Was it because it suited the club because we have been a mess in transfers for years?

They wanted to "back the manager" which is what our naive fanbase has wanted for years. It is why we spent over our budget, they wanted to back him as much as they could. Of course, it was a stupid decision but it does't absolve ETH of the blame which is why they all need to go.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

To be fair, alot of that post is your subjective interpretation of events. So many of you state things as fact that we simply don’t know for sure.

Simple question. Do you think injuries , fatigue from last seasons schedule (that killed Liverpool last season), issues with Sancho, Anthony greenwood, striker issues , club sale issues, do you honestly think these have zero affect on the squad harmony and confidence of the team?

The bolded statement (about Liverpool being killed by fatigue) is also a subjective interpretation of events and not a fact.

I agree with you that it's not easy to quantify the effects of these things. But people arguing in their favor are saying it is easy.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

The bolded statement (about Liverpool being killed by fatigue) is also a subjective interpretation of events and not a fact.

Liverpool went from

EPL -runners up to 5th (25 less points - 28% drop off in points)
CL - runners up to last 16
Fa cup winners to 4th round
League cup winners to 4th round

What do you think explains it?

If you look at our drop , it’s actually remarkably similar :

EPL - currently on course for 59 points which is oddly the exact same drop of 28% of points as Pool

CL - didn’t qualify, Europa quarter final - knocked out in groups
Fa cup - final - at least 4h round, prob 5th a minimum
League cup - win to 4th

So what explains the similarities? We had injuries and possible fatigue that many believe is probable explanation , what is your insight?

I’ve said many times it actually isn’t easy to quantity the club/squad issues versus the manager not being up for it. This is why having an absolutely confident stance on ETH is so misguided.

Many people are choosing to think these are just excuses and dont factor them in on any level. They compare our injuries with Newcastle as if it’s just injuries. They compare spending on transfers as if United spend money aswell as other clubs. There’s so much more I could write but there’s no point, they always revert back to one or two things in isolation and ignore everything else.

 

[stefan92]

Liverpool went from

EPL -runners up to 5th (25 less points - 28% drop off in points)
CL - runners up to last 16
Fa cup winners to 4th round
League cup winners to 4th round

What do you think explains it?

If you look at our drop , it’s actually remarkably similar :

EPL - currently on course for 59 points which is oddly the exact same drop of 28% of points as Pool

CL - didn’t qualify, Europa quarter final - knocked out in groups
Fa cup - final - at least 4h round, prob 5th a minimum
League cup - win to 4th

So what explains the similarities? We had injuries and possible fatigue that many believe is probable explanation , what is your insight?

I’ve said many times it actually isn’t easy to quantity the club/squad issues versus the manager not being up for it. This is why having an absolutely confident stance on ETH is so misguided.

Many people are choosing to think these are just excuses and dont factor them in on any level. They compare our injuries with Newcastle as if it’s just injuries. They compare spending on transfers as if United spend money aswell as other clubs. There’s so much more I could write but there’s no point, they always revert back to one or two things in isolation and ignore everything else.

There definitely are similarities between the two teams and the high amount of games played definitely can be a huge factor. But what are we looking at? A team close to winning the quadruple dropped in quality while still looking like a well drilled team that just didn't have the backups needed to keep playing on that level through that crisis. Probably Klopp could have managed that situation a bit better, but that's how it looked to me. On the other hand we have a team that seemed to have fundamental issues in its setup dropping a level due to lots of injuries. It's understandable that United perform worse than last season based on that. But it's not acceptable that the issues with the tactical setup are still unresolved and arguably even got worse.

I don't see how EtH's tactics can reliably work on the highest level even if everybody is fit again. I could see that with Klopp's Liverpool even during their crisis. That's why I don't think that EtH is doing a good job and why I think "injuries" are used as an excuse by explaining more of United's issues with them than justified.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

What do you think explains it?

Liverpool played Real Madrid in the CL final. In 21/22, Real Madrid's players averaged 2976 minutes played per player. This is higher than what Liverpool's players averaged in 21/22, which is 2724 minutes per player (I'm only counting players above 700 minutes).

The change from 21/22 to 22/23 for Real Madrid was: CL final to CL semis (not much change in performance), worse league performance (86 to 78 points), and better cup performance (QFs to Final). There is a change, but it is nowhere near as dramatic as Liverpool's. RM ended up playing more games with a thinner squad in 22/23, and as a result they averaged 3160 minutes per player last season. This season they are top of the table and have won every single CL group stage game.

Why is another team, whose players have more minutes on them, and which is competing at the highest level, not suffering from competitive collapse due to fatigue?

Well, an explanation could be that La Liga is easier than the PL. Fine, let's look at a PL team. Manchester City's squad averaged 2936 minutes per player in 21/22. This number is, once again, higher than Liverpool's in the same season. Did they experience competitive decline as a result of fatigue in 22/23? They did not. They won a treble.

Those are two obvious examples (teams Liverpool competed against in 21/22).

This isn't proof that fatigue was not the issue. I am just highlighting that there is a lot of cherry picking in these type of arguments.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

There definitely are similarities between the two teams and the high amount of games played definitely can be a huge factor. But what are we looking at? A team close to winning the quadruple dropped in quality while still looking like a well drilled team that just didn't have the backups needed to keep playing on that level through that crisis. Probably Klopp could have managed that situation a bit better, but that's how it looked to me. On the other hand we have a team that seemed to have fundamental issues in its setup dropping a level due to lots of injuries. It's understandable that United perform worse than last season based on that. But it's not acceptable that the issues with the tactical setup are still unresolved and arguably even got worse.

I don't see how EtH's tactics can reliably work on the highest level even if everybody is fit again. I could see that with Klopp's Liverpool even during their crisis. That's why I don't think that EtH is doing a good job and why I think "injuries" are used as an excuse by explaining more of United's issues with them than justified.

Klopp was manager for a long time, of course pool could maintain a system they were all comfortable with.

ETH took over a dysfunctional team already in a mess. Made them work for a season better then any of us could of hoped and then we had our season of Injuries/fatigue.

They nearly won everything playing a system Klopp has perfected over years at Pool, United basically had a better season then a miserable one before with the manager in many eyes over achieving.

And even at that, liverpool have supports for their manager to help with squad building and offloading players he doesnt want. Liverpool dont have the question mark of who does what at the club, Uniteds ownership issue has unsettled many, including no doubt players. Liverpool didnt have a Ronado, sancho, Anthoy, Greenwood drama situation. Liverpool didnt make a new GK signing when their entire defence went missing for the majority of the season. Liverpool werent needing major restructure at any stage in the last 2 years.

All these things affect squad harmony and confidence. That affects how a team will play. A team with low confidence will have to change tactics. An inconsistent team, with an inconsistent lineup will struggle to play consistent football. A team thats not even properly ever had time to gel together or be succesful together is gonna find it even harder.

What baggage has the Spurs manager have to handle at spurs ? They sold Kane, there was no drama, ETH had to deal with Ronaldo the day he walked in the door. These things matter to squad harmony, but theres never been a time when there isnt some drama that ETH has to deal with. Some he could of handled better and some may even be his own fault, but alot of it is out of his control. And hes managing a team thats not spurs or Brighton or Newcastle, the levels of expectation and pressure is in a differnt world, you need to add that to the mix,

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Liverpool played Real Madrid in the CL final. In 21/22, Real Madrid's players averaged 2976 minutes played per player. This is higher than what Liverpool's players averaged in 21/22, which is 2724 minutes per player (I'm only counting players above 700 minutes).

The change from 21/22 to 22/23 for Real Madrid was: CL final to CL semis (not much change in performance), worse league performance (86 to 78 points), and better cup performance (QFs to Final). There is a change, but it is nowhere near as dramatic as Liverpool's. RM ended up playing more games with a thinner squad in 22/23, and as a result they averaged 3160 minutes per player last season. This season they are top of the table and have won every single CL group stage game.

Why is another team, whose players have more minutes on them, and which is competing at the highest level, not suffering from competitive collapse due to fatigue?

Well, an explanation could be that La Liga is easier than the PL. Fine, let's look at a PL team. Manchester City's squad averaged 2936 minutes per player in 21/22. This number is, once again, higher than Liverpool's in the same season. Did they experience competitive decline as a result of fatigue in 22/23? They did not. They won a treble.

Those are two obvious examples (teams Liverpool competed against in 21/22).

This isn't proof that fatigue was not the issue. I am just highlighting that there is a lot of cherry picking in these type of arguments.

The EPL is most definitely tougher then La Primera so lets discard Madrid to be fair who can win some league games in 1st gear that you dont really get away with in England. Madrid are a club setup to succeed and are seldom far off top honors, perhaps there are other factors , like maybe factors of excellence that help their players/manager.

I would say theres similar supports of excellence at City, but I would be very interested to see how Pep managed his squad, specifically regarding being able to rotate in/out players when he wants to , as opposed to when he has to. I would also be interested to see the quality of benches. Minutes on the pitch are not the same as strategicly planned minutes. City walked the league aswell, so its not exactly as gruelling a season for them when their nearest rival collapsed

These factors matter. If I can rest players in some games becasue I have quality alternatives, I can plan out the season and give players rests here and there as I want to. Having to rest players because you over played them (because you have poor alternatives) is different and can cause you issues, that includes playing players that need a rest.

I see it so often with United games, this and last season, "make a sub", and you look at our bench and I am like, "who do you want to come on ??" . I agree at times it would be nice to change things up, but very often (not always) theres f**k all realistic options to bring on.

I mean even the Wigan game, wed all like to see rotation and players given minutes, but if we lose due to upset its a disaster, so it makes sense for the manager to take no chances.

You are correct in that cherry picking information can be made look a certain way, but at least we are discussing information outside of "ETH is bad, his football is bad, hes out of his depth". This isnt an exact science and isnt easy to quantify. But many people are stripping it down to the bear bones of "I see crap in games, therefore manager crap", which we both know is not that simple.

 

[DJ_21]

Not wrong but it was also nowhere near this level of fall. We all roasted Mourinho when he finished 2nd with still our highest point tally since SAF left, because everybody thought we should be challenging for the title. When ETH was appointed standards were low but now they are rock bottom. People acting like we're some kind of experiment project instead of the biggest club in England and one of the biggest in the world. We shouldn't be "letting" anybody "try to improve" us. This goes for everyone, the manager, the players. We cannot afford to give any underperforming personell that much time based on blind faith just to see what happens. I saw in the Antony thread yesterday people suggesting we convert him to a fullback or loan him to a weaker club to see if he gets better. We seem unable to just let things so.

The thing is though not 1 manager is gonna come into this club and instantly make us challengers for the league and challengers for the CL and that’s what a lot of fans want but it ain’t happening. We need every single person within the club to be on the same page and all pull together. There’s absolutely no reason why we can’t be challenging… I mean we’ve shown last season we can beat some of the best teams. It’s a case of players dropping there standards once they’ve earned a big contract. Not all our problems come down to the manager.

 

[erikcred]

It’s a case of players dropping there standards once they’ve earned a big contract. Not all our problems come down to the manager.

It's also possible that the manager dropped his standards after achieving the holy grail - a league cup.

 

[Rista]

The thing is though not 1 manager is gonna come into this club and instantly make us challengers for the league and challengers for the CL and that’s what a lot of fans want but it ain’t happening. We need every single person within the club to be on the same page and all pull together. There’s absolutely no reason why we can’t be challenging… I mean we’ve shown last season we can beat some of the best teams. It’s a case of players dropping there standards once they’ve earned a big contract. Not all our problems come down to the manager.

But nobody is expecting that. We can't be blaming players for "downing tools" when things aren't going well but then credit the manager when we do win. People go on about "structure" but ETH has very much been part of the structure and is part of the problem. I just don't understand why so many want to change everything at the club but keep the manager. It would be like keeping all the players because they've been playing under poor structure so we have to give all of them more time. People have no problem whatsoever shipping out our best performers from last season but again, they want to keep the manager. Our fanbase is incredibly weird when it comes to managers.

 

[chocolate cloud]

VDB gone on loan, Sancho gone on loan, Hannibal gone on loan, Reguilon loan cancelled, Martial always ill, Loads out injured, Antony crap, McTominay always starting. Feels so bleak.

 

[DSG]

Klopp was manager for a long time, of course pool could maintain a system they were all comfortable with.

ETH took over a dysfunctional team already in a mess. Made them work for a season better then any of us could of hoped and then we had our season of Injuries/fatigue.

They nearly won everything playing a system Klopp has perfected over years at Pool, United basically had a better season then a miserable one before with the manager in many eyes over achieving.

And even at that, liverpool have supports for their manager to help with squad building and offloading players he doesnt want. Liverpool dont have the question mark of who does what at the club, Uniteds ownership issue has unsettled many, including no doubt players. Liverpool didnt have a Ronado, sancho, Anthoy, Greenwood drama situation. Liverpool didnt make a new GK signing when their entire defence went missing for the majority of the season. Liverpool werent needing major restructure at any stage in the last 2 years.

All these things affect squad harmony and confidence. That affects how a team will play. A team with low confidence will have to change tactics. An inconsistent team, with an inconsistent lineup will struggle to play consistent football. A team thats not even properly ever had time to gel together or be succesful together is gonna find it even harder.

What baggage has the Spurs manager have to handle at spurs ? They sold Kane, there was no drama, ETH had to deal with Ronaldo the day he walked in the door. These things matter to squad harmony, but theres never been a time when there isnt some drama that ETH has to deal with. Some he could of handled better and some may even be his own fault, but alot of it is out of his control. And hes managing a team thats not spurs or Brighton or Newcastle, the levels of expectation and pressure is in a differnt world, you need to add that to the mix,

Sad that the **** of ETH just keeps justifying shitty results. You’re comparing a bad run of form from Liverpool, a team that had won a CL and PL and a proven manager. Ten Hag has a fraction of the pedigree of Klopp.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

The thing is though not 1 manager is gonna come into this club and instantly make us challengers for the league and challengers for the CL and that’s what a lot of fans want but it ain’t happening. We need every single person within the club to be on the same page and all pull together. There’s absolutely no reason why we can’t be challenging… I mean we’ve shown last season we can beat some of the best teams. It’s a case of players dropping there standards once they’ve earned a big contract. Not all our problems come down to the manager.

I keep seeing this strawman popping up. Who are these fans?

There’s a difference between wanting immediate results & questioning a manager that lost 14 games before New Year.

Saying ‘not all’ our problems come down to the manager doesn’t mean the manager isn’t one of the problems.

 

[DJ_21]

I keep seeing this strawman popping up. Who are these fans?

There’s a difference between wanting immediate results & questioning a manager that lost 14 games before New Year.

Saying ‘not all’ our problems come down to the manager doesn’t mean the manager isn’t one of the problems.

I know. But it also doesn’t mean he’s the full problem which means we won’t be any better of with a different manager.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I know. But it also doesn’t mean he’s the full problem which means we won’t be any better of with a different manager.

I have no idea how someone can watch us this year and look at our results currently and think not a single manager could do better. That's a hilarious line of thinking, you'd think Ten Hag was having to work with a U-16 squad

 

[DJ_21]

I have no idea how someone can watch us this year and look at our results currently and think not a single manager could do better. That's a hilarious line of thinking, you'd think Ten Hag was having to work with a U-16 squad

Aslong as he’s working with Rashford then he ain’t getting what he wants. He’s a bad egg in the dressing room. He’s the last man standing who’s worked with every single manager previously.

 

[Shark]

Aslong as he’s working with Rashford then he ain’t getting what he wants. He’s a bad egg in the dressing room. He’s the last man standing who’s worked with every single manager previously.

Why is he playing all of these bad eggs then? Even when Rashford has a stinker which is 90% of games he still ends up playing. The money he spent on Antony alone could have funded another wide man and Sancho is now loaned back to Dortmund.

 

[redcucumber]

Aslong as he’s working with Rashford then he ain’t getting what he wants. He’s a bad egg in the dressing room. He’s the last man standing who’s worked with every single manager previously.

Bit of an odd cop out, that. Rashford got a huge long-term contract under his watch and has been one of his main men since he started managing us.

 

[DJ_21]

Bit of an odd cop out, that. Rashford got a huge long-term contract under his watch and has been one of his main men since he started managing us.

Yes and since getting a big contract he’s underperformed. I’m sorry but you don’t go from being one of the best players to one of the worse in the space of a season. I get players go out of form but he’s not even hit form once this season.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Aslong as he’s working with Rashford then he ain’t getting what he wants. He’s a bad egg in the dressing room. He’s the last man standing who’s worked with every single manager previously.

If that were true then he'd be dropped the same way Ronaldo and Sancho were dropped

 

[DJ_21]

If that were true then he'd be dropped the same way Ronaldo and Sancho were dropped

Maybe he’s smarter. He can be the one doing the leaks and unsettling the dressing room behind closed doors. The other 2 was more vocal about it

 

[Zlatan 7]

He’s paid millions to coach and manage the team. He’s a tracksuit manager. All the other things that he has to navigate (including transfers) , that Klopp and peo don’t, are down to our clubs dysfunction.

You say Murtagh is a Buffoon yet think that shouldn’t affect the kind of support ETH got from him. United over spend on players, that’s not an ETH thing, that’s a United thing. I’m not going into individual players signed because none of us know for sure the exact nature of why certain players were signed. We know they were signed, we know ETH said he wanted them (like all United managers say about every transfer), we know uniteds transfer policy has been a mess for a decade but we don’t know how we ended up getting ETH signings over potential alternatives.

Top manager’s don’t rotate their best squads. They build up momentum. They adapt to their circumstances and sometimes changing teams is not feasible. We don’t have a massive squad so he hasn’t got world class alternatives, this has been part of the problem , so rotating could of meant no league cup , fa cup final or even that great win against Barca.

So I wil ask again, why was it ok for Klopps pool to get a free pass due to fatigue/injuries and the same doesn’t apply to United? Klopp getting success makes no difference, either his squad injuries and fatigue explained their fall off or it didn’t.

Apart from transfers (that he wanted to) what are all these other things he had to manage that klopp and pep don’t out of interest.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Aslong as he’s working with Rashford then he ain’t getting what he wants. He’s a bad egg in the dressing room. He’s the last man standing who’s worked with every single manager previously.

I’m more than happy to bin off Rashford, Bruno, and the rest of the veterans for what it’s worth. I think they all need to go

 

[kaku06]

Aslong as he’s working with Rashford then he ain’t getting what he wants. He’s a bad egg in the dressing room. He’s the last man standing who’s worked with every single manager previously.

I also think the same to be honest.

 

[DJ_21]

I’m more than happy to bin off Rashford, Bruno, and the rest of the veterans for what it’s worth. I think they all need to go

Absolutely. Need to create a good working environment. An happy squad is a winning one

 

[Dec9003]

I know. But it also doesn’t mean he’s the full problem which means we won’t be any better of with a different manager.

That doesn’t make any sense. If you have multiple problems and you fix one of them, you are still better off.

 

[Redstain]

Aslong as he’s working with Rashford then he ain’t getting what he wants. He’s a bad egg in the dressing room. He’s the last man standing who’s worked with every single manager previously.

Then how do you explain last year when Rashford was almost single handedly the reason why the team was identified as having a successful season? Did the manager get what he wanted last season when he was the teams highest goal scorer and the most productive attacking threat. The manager oversaw Rashfords contract extension and we know he has say over these things with the De Gea debacle.

There are many opinions in this thread with connotations of Erik being the best manager in Europe. Nothing of significance and I repeat nothing has been achieved for fans to have sold out to such extent with this manager.

 

[DJ_21]

Then how do you explain last year when Rashford was almost single handedly the reason why the team was identified as having a successful season? Did the manager get what he wanted last season when he was the teams highest goal scorer and the most productive attacking threat. The manager oversaw Rashfords contract extension and we know he has say over these things with the De Gea debacle.

There are many opinions in this thread with connotations of Erik being the best manager in Europe. Nothing of significance and I repeat nothing has been achieved for fans to have sold out to such extent with this manager.

That’s a bit too far. I’ve not seen anyone on here mention he’s the best manager in Europe. I’ve seen debates from people as to whether we should keep him or not. Like I’ve said before, Rashford was one of the best players last season and it was obviously because he wanted a big pay rise, which is what he’s now got and now he’s underperforming. How on earth can you go from one of the best players to one of the worse in the space of a season? You can have up and down form but he’s not even hit any kind of form this season and we’re in the 2nd halve of it. You don’t see him being consistent like Salah and all the other top wide forwards. And he’s one of the only players left from the LVG era. I remember Ole having an interview not that long ago and he said there was a trouble maker in the dressing room that’s currently still here…

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Apart from transfers (that he wanted to) what are all these other things he had to manage that klopp and pep don’t out of interest.

I literally posted it. I’m not rehashing the same things over and over again.

What dramas and issues have been unique to United the last 18 months that haven’t been at city? If you can’t find any , there’s no point in talking with you.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I literally posted it. I’m not rehashing the same things over and over again.

What dramas and issues have been unique to United the last 18 months that haven’t been at city? If you can’t find any , there’s no point in talking with you.

Not in the post I quoted you didn’t. You said we didn’t have a massive squad. And in that case the manager shouldn’t have been so naive last year burning our players out going for every cup last year instead of building the team and squad and then going for it. I said it last year and this year with all these injuries people keep bringing up just reinforces that.

 

[JPRouve]

Not in the post I quoted you didn’t. You said we didn’t have a massive squad. And in that case the manager shouldn’t have been so naive last year burning our players out going for every cup last year instead of building the team and squad and then going for it. I said it last year and this year with all these injuries people keep bringing up just reinforces that.

Also our squad size was above 25 which is the amount of players you can actually register. People need to make a difference between a manager refusing to use depth players and not having depth/youth players. And they should also quit with the idea that teams routinely have 25 starters, nearly every clubs have a drop in quality after the 15th-16th players.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Not in the post I quoted you didn’t. You said we didn’t have a massive squad. And in that case the manager shouldn’t have been so naive last year burning our players out going for every cup last year instead of building the team and squad and then going for it. I said it last year and this year with all these injuries people keep bringing up just reinforces that.

If we don’t have a strong squad , who can the manager bring in to replace important players? Having bodies doesng make your squad strong.

Liverpool and City generally are there and there abouts for league or CL most seasons. They can afford to take league and fa cup less seriously. United don’t have that luxury as we have never been near our top honors targets so have to take the lessor cups more serious.

That aside, top managers don’t regularly rotate their teams unless they absolutely have to. Even Pep whinges about player fatigue and he has the strongest squad to pick from in the world.

When he took over
He did not join a settled club or squad, we had a terrible season the summer he joined,

Serious Player issues:
Ronaldo , Sancho , Anthony , Greenwood

Club issues:
Club sale has unsettled things for ETH entire tenure. Will new owners want him as manager ? Will they take a different approach and sell certain players ? anybody in team must be wondering about manager or club future. Will things be better or worse? It’s like the opposite of Newcastle where everything at the club must be so positive.

World Cup in between season
Granted this affected all clubs, but we had the World Cup the same season as we had a gruelling season. Liverpool were already wrecked after a similar season to us without the World Cup

Striker issue
Lost his best striker whose ego tried to derail everything and was eventually offered a cheap option. He got weghorst but clearly funds weren’t there to do much better
Club signs an injured young striker and nobody else. Greenwood was to be our other option but that fell apart too late to rectfy

Defender issues - New GK
At the best of times it can be tough for new keepers to settle in, particularly at united. But the season we sign a new keeper , the entire defence is injured for prolonged periods of time. The keeper seldom has a settled defence on front of him.

I can’t think of anything else that could actually go wrong for ETH , he’s been at the club 18 months , not several years!! I can’t see how all these things can be brushed away as things everybody just has to deal with Because you won’t find a top club with comparable issues all at once.

 

[Donut]

I’m fully confident he won’t be our manager next season. He’s just not a good coach/manager and it’s getting more obvious with every game we play.

 

[chocolate cloud]

When are Martinez, Shaw, Malacia, Casemiro, Mount, Martial back to full fitness??

 

[Rista]

I know. But it also doesn’t mean he’s the full problem which means we won’t be any better of with a different manager.

I don't get this conclusion? He's part of the problem, not the full problem, so replacing him will not make us any better. How? There isn't one single full problem at the club. You can't point at anyone and say replacing him will fix the issue. But if you're replacing all the parts of the problem then ETH is one of them, there's no escaping that.

Aslong as he’s working with Rashford then he ain’t getting what he wants. He’s a bad egg in the dressing room. He’s the last man standing who’s worked with every single manager previously.

We'd be nowhere last season without Rashford. How come people have no problem wanting to ship him out and blame him for everything after underperforming but when the manager is underperfoming it's a completely different story.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

We'd be nowhere last season without Rashford. How come people have no problem wanting to ship him out and blame him for everything after underperforming but when the manager is underperfoming it's a completely different story.

Rashford got a 5 year contract in July. His form seems to peak when hes looking for more money. Hes not the first player we have seen this from to be fair.

A big issue for Rashford, is particularly when you look at Garnacho. You cant put his poor form down to how the team plays, doesnt seem to be affecting Garnacho. And not just that, even more damning, is how hard Garnacho works to win back the ball or at least track back.

In the Wigan game, wigans first goal chance (that was nearly a goal), came from Rashfords end, he didnt bother even going in for a tackle and they broke down the other end. Thats the sort of stuff that is nothing to do with how your team is playing or tactics or coaching, thats a players attitutde , mentality. Even when you are low in confidence you can still try.

Rashfords demeanor this season has more often then not been very very poor.

At what stage do we look at these players and actually apply some standards to them ?

 

[stefan92]

Rashford got a 5 year contract in July. His form seems to peak when hes looking for more money. Hes not the first player we have seen this from to be fair.

A big issue for Rashford, is particularly when you look at Garnacho. You cant put his poor form down to how the team plays, doesnt seem to be affecting Garnacho. And not just that, even more damning, is how hard Garnacho works to win back the ball or at least track back.

In the Wigan game, wigans first goal chance (that was nearly a goal), came from Rashfords end, he didnt bother even going in for a tackle and they broke down the other end. Thats the sort of stuff that is nothing to do with how your team is playing or tactics or coaching, thats a players attitutde , mentality. Even when you are low in confidence you can still try.

Rashfords demeanor this season has more often then not been very very poor.

At what stage do we look at these players and actually apply some standards to them ?

I mostly agree, but due to EtH shifting the system more to a 4141 instead of a 4231 the wingers are playing a bit wider than last season. That simply doesn't suit Rashford's strength and can also be part of the reason why he performs much worse.

Garnacho seems to have less of a problem with playing wide but Rashford needs to play in the half spaces to be at his best.

 

[r0663664]

Yes, our squad is poor. McTominay wasn't never a XI player since he was promoted, Rashford has never been consistent, Martial??? Why the hack he is still here, huge transfer fee for Sancho and Antony, AWB was 50 million pound, Fed was 50million, VDB, Bailly and so many other. Overall, our transfer suck over the year and poor academy players get promoted to first team so overall quality suck. Erik blows 180 million on Mount, Onana and Hoijund and 80 million on Antony. How can we not suck???? I reckon it will take 4 years to cover from this crap. We won't be competing for the next 3-4 years. Only hope is Mainoo and Garnacho will stick around to see this turnaround else they will likely leave rather stuck here.

 

[DJ_21]

Rashford got a 5 year contract in July. His form seems to peak when hes looking for more money. Hes not the first player we have seen this from to be fair.

A big issue for Rashford, is particularly when you look at Garnacho. You cant put his poor form down to how the team plays, doesnt seem to be affecting Garnacho. And not just that, even more damning, is how hard Garnacho works to win back the ball or at least track back.

In the Wigan game, wigans first goal chance (that was nearly a goal), came from Rashfords end, he didnt bother even going in for a tackle and they broke down the other end. Thats the sort of stuff that is nothing to do with how your team is playing or tactics or coaching, thats a players attitutde , mentality. Even when you are low in confidence you can still try.

Rashfords demeanor this season has more often then not been very very poor.

At what stage do we look at these players and actually apply some standards to them ?

Exactly! Good point

 

[Redstain]

That’s a bit too far. I’ve not seen anyone on here mention he’s the best manager in Europe. I’ve seen debates from people as to whether we should keep him or not. Like I’ve said before, Rashford was one of the best players last season and it was obviously because he wanted a big pay rise, which is what he’s now got and now he’s underperforming. How on earth can you go from one of the best players to one of the worse in the space of a season? You can have up and down form but he’s not even hit any kind of form this season and we’re in the 2nd halve of it. You don’t see him being consistent like Salah and all the other top wide forwards. And he’s one of the only players left from the LVG era. I remember Ole having an interview not that long ago and he said there was a trouble maker in the dressing room that’s currently still here…

I'm not backing Rashford in any way but in the initial post I responded to, you asserted that the poor performances this season has been due to the manager having to work with Rashford which is a diabolical assessment when the team has fundamentally been poor tactically this season throughout almost every single phase of play from back to front.



That's a good breakdown of the issue, it's also not the first time good attacking players have lost form when a new system is implemented as the very same thing is happening with Saka / Martinelli who are struggling as a result of Arteta's changes for the team this season. Whenever anyone says "no other manager would fix the issues this season" it's a line of thinking that's repeatedly mentioned among many posters and it's a form of aggrandisement that the present manager is the best in their field.