I've been saying this for weeks. His record since the cup final has been a negative GD so he's 100% gone - he can't just blame injuries this season. We were and have been poor since the day the team finally started to play the way he's coached them too. None of us has seen anything in the United side that will win enough games to get top 6, let alone top 4. Can't score enough goals.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I dunno, ETH has shown himself to be incredibly lucky and resilient. Anything can happen in football.
I meant Mourinho before his time for us. After us he was even worse.
The shit on a stick football we've endured for almost a year has been difficult to stomach. Injuries or not, it's absolutely nowhere near good enough. He's been a big disappointment.
Mount not Maguire.
Exactly right. The only reason he's still in the job is the turmoil upstairs.
I don't expect him to be United manager next season barring a miraculous turnaround and these weird tactics somehow clicking.
That's a fair ranking of them. Ole at the top despite the lack of trophies then Mourinho with LVG and ETH tied for third.
The decision to loan Amad out was a good one as he got consistent minutes as a guaranteed starter and he was injured in preseason so not much ETH could have done for him this season.
I would have Jose top of the managers we've had post SAF.
The first two years with him was the most balanced, though pragmatic, I've seen us. Naturally, like all our managers post SAF, there was some real low points too. The performance and reaction against Sevilla was a particularly standout low point.
I still believe the football United played in Jose's first few months was the best football we've played for sometime though, even if we did have a ridiculous amount of trouble consistently finding the back of the net.
Ole's time here was more fun but the football was chaotic. Concede stupid goals but would score some genuine outstanding ones. Whatever the game, you felt confident we would score...but also concede. It was a toss of the coin whether the team would be victorious or not in any given game.
Also the lack of control in matches was a fundamental issue, as was the doubt in Ole's direction for the team.
LVG , minor a 4 game period in his 1st season, which wasn't too bad, the football played, more so in his 2nd campaign, was absolutely dreadful.
Moyes. A disaster.
The first two years with him was the most balanced, though pragmatic, I've seen us. Naturally, like all our managers post SAF, there was some real low points too. The performance and reaction against Sevilla was a particularly standout low point.
I still believe the football United played in Jose's first few months was the best football we've played for sometime though, even if we did have a ridiculous amount of trouble consistently finding the back of the net.
Ole's time here was more fun but the football was chaotic. Concede stupid goals but would score some genuine outstanding ones. Whatever the game, you felt confident we would score...but also concede. It was a toss of the coin whether the team would be victorious or not in any given game.
Also the lack of control in matches was a fundamental issue, as was the doubt in Ole's direction for the team.
LVG , minor a 4 game period in his 1st season, which wasn't too bad, the football played, more so in his 2nd campaign, was absolutely dreadful.
Moyes. A disaster.
Both are out but I simply forgot Mount existed.
I think this is ultimately what's going to cost him the job. Many fans have compared the poor performance of Klopp last season due to injuries with that of Erik this season, but the difference is Jurgens bottom was 5th (losing the same amount of games after 38 fixtures as United have at 21).
The issue is Erik's bottom is so poor it's catastrophic, he's allowed the bar to reach the floor this season and that's a catastrophe for anyone with the responsibility of management in any discipline or profession.
He's failed his responsibility as a manager with allowing the performance standards to deplete so drastically. All we have to do is assess his contract situation over the next 4 or so months because that will be the determination of his employment.
ETH has been blamed here for the revolting ill-discipline of his players, an accusation which is not irrational but requires a response.
Let's do talk about Maguire. He got into trouble in Greece and has been shit ever since, with a noticeable upturn in form this season before he pulled his hamstring. There is nothing to pin on ETH for Maguire's downturn in form, which preceded his arrival last season. Point not well taken.
Let's do talk about De Gea. ETH downgraded the keeper position when he cast off De Gea for Onana. Point well taken.
Let's do talk about McTominay. I think we agree that selling Fred and keeping McTominay was madness. Point well taken.
Varane? Sorry, but Varane was outstanding for us last season. Not so this season, but he's been stricken with fitness issues this season but when he's been fit he's one of the first names on the team sheet. Point not well taken.
Martial? Martial was a disaster before ETH arrived and continues to be a disaster. We can't sell him and as I understand now we are not exercising the option on his contract. Point not well taken.
Wan Bissaka? AWB was a disappointment long before ETH arrived. True, we haven't tried to sell him but the club had higher priorities to addressed (which we've botched, which I'll get to shortly) but you can't hang AWB around ETH's neck. Point not well taken.
Bailly? We was gash for years before ETH and is now long gone. A really poor take if you're serious about blaming ETH for EB. Point not well taken.
Fred? Fred was an enigma long before ETH. On some days he was a force of nature and other days he was Foster Brooks in a United kit. He's gone now, but we kept the wrong halfof McFred. Point not well taken.
There is a serious case for the prosecution of ETH and I want to be clear that I am open to sacking him at season's end if both of the following are true: 1) we continue to muddle along as we have been this season AND 2) we have a top manager in hand ready to accept the job. But what I am not open to is sacking him right now, January 31. Why? Who the fukk would take over as interim manager? McClaren? Van der Gaag? Ragnick? Conte? Jose? I don't think so.
Maguire came off the bench against Newport so no longer out
Has he got the shits or something?
If Chelsea win tonight and we lose tomorrow we will be 11th in the league. It’s clear as day we’re just playing this season out now in terms of those above Ten Hag so I’m not expecting interim manager and I don’t think we need CL money with the investment coming in freeing up ffp
I’m not fussed about CL, we haven’t got out of the group in 2 of our last 3 campaigns only scrapping though 2 seasons ago thanks to Ronaldo and even then went out to Atletico in a really shit tie. Unless we have a chance of going far in the competition then there’s no need for us to be in it. It might even help us move a few players, it was reported the pay bump for CL qualification last year priced a few players out of a move away.
Even if he was. That's one of the most absurd things I've ever read
Has he got the shits or something?
Hopefully notMaguire played on the weekend for Man Utd
Completely missed him coming on to be honest as I pretty much switched off after we got the third goal.
Fair.
The season has been dreadful after an encouraging first season? Yes
The players seem in disarray again? Yes
This is a repeating pattern consistent over managers at United for too long now. And this should warrant a deeper discussion than just calling for Ten Hag out and start fresh.
Ten hag is more of a coach than manager really.Especially at Manchester United, a place where there is only disorder, which is a fact given multiple evidences on how the club is run.
You need a SAF level personality to pull this off. Pulling any trophy with this team is more or less equivalent to Pep winning a treble, if you try to also focus on operations. So as a manager this job at United will never give you a platform to shone given the current situation.
A manager couldn’t be fairly judged here at United on their performances barring Moyes/ Van Gaal maybe, a time when the club still had some elements that made us successful.
Personally only reason to say Ten Hag out is his inability sometimes to communicate precisely and with anecdotes. The press has been really hard on him too, more so borderline bullying, which has exposed some of his inter personal and communication flaws quite out in the open. That does open a question if his communication with players is causing issues.
I hope he’s given a chance to work in some structure before kicking him out as he’s shown promise in few moments.
The players seem in disarray again? Yes
This is a repeating pattern consistent over managers at United for too long now. And this should warrant a deeper discussion than just calling for Ten Hag out and start fresh.
Ten hag is more of a coach than manager really.Especially at Manchester United, a place where there is only disorder, which is a fact given multiple evidences on how the club is run.
You need a SAF level personality to pull this off. Pulling any trophy with this team is more or less equivalent to Pep winning a treble, if you try to also focus on operations. So as a manager this job at United will never give you a platform to shone given the current situation.
A manager couldn’t be fairly judged here at United on their performances barring Moyes/ Van Gaal maybe, a time when the club still had some elements that made us successful.
Personally only reason to say Ten Hag out is his inability sometimes to communicate precisely and with anecdotes. The press has been really hard on him too, more so borderline bullying, which has exposed some of his inter personal and communication flaws quite out in the open. That does open a question if his communication with players is causing issues.
I hope he’s given a chance to work in some structure before kicking him out as he’s shown promise in few moments.
Yep, aside from communication all other aspects of his management have been good to great.
That's a brilliant record. He's not playing alone in Champions League. It's supposed to be the tournament with the best of the Europe competing against each other, for God's sake.
Pep’s CL record is underwhelming overall though, he has always had one of the best 2-3 squads in Europe and should have achieved more. He got 2 of those finals and wins back at Barcelona during the first 3 years of his career and then it’s 2 finals and 1 win after that, while he was managing Bayern team that just won the treble and City team with possible the most resources of all European clubs where he had already inherited a good team.
This obviously doesn’t make ETH v Pep comparisons any less ridiculous though. They don’t belong in the same category. If you want managers to compare ETH with in Premier League or the fringes then it’s Hodgson, Nuno, Rodgers, Silva, Moyes etc., they are of the level where you can have a meaningful discussion about who’s better.
9th on the table in February and he's still the manager. One of the most baffling decisions ever to let him keep the job for this long.
I feel for the players who have to wake up and face the reality everyday that they have to train and play for this buffoon.
I feel for the players who have to wake up and face the reality everyday that they have to train and play for this buffoon.
Yeah. People need to compare the record to other managers, not to a sense of what "should" have happened.
It's literally what's happening. We're changing everything, nobody wants to just sack the manager and leave everything as is.
Could not disagree more about the press being hard on him to the point of bullying. If anything they've been easy on him considering the circumstances, ie United manager having the worst season in club's modern history.
Some standards need to be set. "Shown promise in few moments" is not even close to being enough at this point.
Of course it isn't. It was common sense to wait for INEOS to arrive in order for them to appoint the 'best in class', who are actually qualified to make footballing decisions. You would like to think that we have a better chance of making correct decisions with a top CEO/Sporting Director/Head of Recruitment as opposed to what we had previously.
Doesn't do enough squats.Has he got the shits or something?
The first Mourinho season was mostly awful. It was great to win the trophies but the journey getting there wasn't particularly great.
The start of the second season was fantastic until the Liverpool away 0-0 when we seemed to lose all momentum and it was all downhill from there really. The Sevilla game and Chelsea cup final were proper grim to watch.
i find this rose tinted view of Jose strange. Some of the worst and dullest football I ever saw was under Jose, he used to go ultra defensive with 2 holding players against even low placed teams, and still at times lose. He lost the plot after board refused to buy Maguire, remember next game he started McT at center back (he was bad), which was a real 2 fingers to Woodward. Woodward too dumb to even realise. He's also just a nasty, toxic manager. Chartlon was right, should never have been anywhere near United. We can and should do much,, much better.
Loved this from the presser, when asked about the difference in treatment and punishment: Ten Hag replied: "We can sort out everything internally. Jadon chose to go public".
Smack, straight to the point and now subject closed.
Smack, straight to the point and now subject closed.
I also don’t support the ‘press has been so hard on him, making it difficult for him to perform, impossible job’ narrative either. They’ve actually been very lenient and there has been very little talk about his dismissal in what is possibly the worst season by a manager at a top club this century.
Technically Eric made it public in that post match, it was Sancho that made it all worse with his public reaction to it.
Really!? I suppose if direct low block football is your thing.
It's OK if ETH does it! I honestly don't think last season's football was much different to Ole's aside from a bit more pressing.
I would definitely put him above van Gaal and would be tempted to still put him above Ole because he at least won a trophy.
Van Gaal never reached the lows that ten Hag has, his away record against big teams wasn't that bad and he at least managed to finish 4th and 5th.
It's likely ten Hag could have us finish outside the top 6, his away record is poor and we've been thrashed in a few games. Ten Hag's football hasn't been as boring but it has been utterly flaccid at times.
I absolutely agree.
In fact, improving the level of his English is a very serious challenge that he needs to address fully. I feel like many of the negative situations could have been handled more conclusively if he had Pep and Klopps near fluency in the English language.
It is still plaguing him to this day. In fact, the whole "Best transition team" talking point is because of the language he chose, where he later cleared it up and said he does want us to play from the back fully and to dominate possession, but ALSO be the best transition team. Liverpool were all those things under Klopp.
I have realised though, ten Hag is improving pretty quickly. He also has to work on the accent and the little sounds he makes in between stuff. Not just for interactions with the players, but in the press too, in interviews, etc..
I think De Zerbi will suffer the same thing, but far worse, at a "bigger" club like us or Liverpool. It does not help Poch either, and didn't with Conte. It seems mastering the English language is simply a big requirement for consistent success.
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Good presser from him shutting down some journalists.