Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[UDontMessWith24]

I'm one of those who wants to keep ETH but it's hard to say the other side don't have a case. He bought Antony and he appears to have caused an injury crisis by over training tired players. He's not above fault. I still think we should stick with him but he's made some unforced errors for sure. That said, much of what he's blamed for is down to the Glazers.

Of course he’s not above fault that’s not the point. I’ll have a rational discussion on what he’s done right and wrong all day. The adults in the room are not who I was referring to in that post

 

[TsuWave]

You’ve done a great job reciting statistics. Very enlightening

Hopefully this enlightenment will set you free from Ten Hag's shackles, much like United needs to be freed from him

 

[glazed]

Of course he’s not above fault that’s not the point. I’ll have a rational discussion on what he’s done right and wrong all day. The adults in the room are not who I was referring to in that post

I agree many of his critics are somewhat hysterical and unable to see beyond the unfortunate coach and the last result to the obviously broken football club. That said it's likely (judging by the mood music) ETH is getting sacked at the end of the season so Ratcliffe seems to agree with them and not us.

 

[pocco]

You said he should be getting more from this squad, and was ‘gaslighting’ fans into thinking nobody else would do better.
As the better players are part of the squad, them not being available will affect the performance of this squad. And if you accept that then you have to go back on what you said and admit that maybe he is getting the maximum out of the remaining squad members who aren’t as good as they should be.

But I don't believe that. He's practically leaning on 2 injuries to defenders as an excuse, because some of the players injured at the moment have been playing for large parts of the season. Like I've explained, I think our match day teams are plenty for enough to beat many of the teams we've struggled with. Even when we've had less or no first team injuries we've not looked great. Last season we didn't look great and had some proper horror shows.

In my opinion there's simply no justification for a -2 goal difference, losing practically half our games, and stats the match some of the lowest placed teams in he league at this stage of the season. At any other top club he would have been sacked ages ago and the fans and media wouldn't have blinked an eye. In fact Jose was sacked under very similar circumstances, 11 points off top 4 etc, but he had done a better job than ETH and had spent less money.

I'm pretty sure the right conclusion will be reached eventually so I'm not losing sleep over it.

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

 

[UDontMessWith24]

Hopefully this enlightenment will set you free from Ten Hag's shackles, much like United needs to be freed from him

Unhinged and a little creepy with some subtle Mark Chapman undertones.

 

[spwd]

Can someone post the stats for the matches when we had our 1st 11 please?

 

[croadyman]

They showed a bit of his presser on Premier League Preview,talked about opposition fearing Old Trafford. That will be why Brighton,Palace,Bournemouth & Fulham have all won there this season then.

 

[Jeffthered]

I agree many of his critics are somewhat hysterical and unable to see beyond the unfortunate coach and the last result to the obviously broken football club. That said it's likely (judging by the mood music) ETH is getting sacked at the end of the season so Ratcliffe seems to agree with them and not us.

'...Unfortunate coach..'

You mean like a £400 Millon transfer budget 'unfortunate'

ETH hasn't got to grips with this job. It's too much for him. His confusion is evident in our lack of a playing style, still after 20 months. That's inexcusable.

 

[Malone_Post]

Can someone post the stats for the matches when we had our 1st 11 please?

How often does any manager have their 1st XI available?

 

[Widow]

Scouts don't have the power to do that.

According to Ole on Nevilles Stick to Football, they do.

 

[renatosanches85]

I really wanted this one to work, hoped he would have a trajectory like Arteta but unfortunately it hasn’t. There seems to be a certain toxicity around the manager now, he is clearly a decent manager with principles but I feel now a new “head coach” who is supported with moving players on and bringing in some players identified by the club to fit into a philosophy/ culture/ style of play (pick your term) is the way to go. I hope we can move towards an approach to football where when the manager is replaced at some point the whole philosophy/ culture/ style of play does not have to be ripped up and started again from scratch.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

So Ten Hag has confirmed he was told he’d have both his LBs available by the medical staff.

Now imagine you’re a manager and you get told by qualified professionals that something is going to be the case. Do you against medical advice completely ignore them and keep an extra player?

 

[renatosanches85]

So Ten Hag has confirmed he was told he’d have both his LBs available by the medical staff.

Now imagine you’re a manager and you get told by qualified professionals that something is going to be the case. Do you against medical advice completely ignore them and keep an extra player?

It’s a difficult one alright but the fact that one is coming back from a very serious injury and the other has a track record of missing large chunks of yeh season for the past decade should have come into the decision making process.

 

[JPRouve]

So Ten Hag has confirmed he was told he’d have both his LBs available by the medical staff.

Now imagine you’re a manager and you get told by qualified professionals that something is going to be the case. Do you against medical advice completely ignore them and keep an extra player?

Keeping an extra player doesn't go against medical advice, it's a Football decision. Also I'm highly skeptical about the claim that the medical staff told him that he would have both players available at a specific date unless we are talking about players that were already fit for action. Medical staffs will give you a theoretical timetable that is dependent on future reevaluation(s) and said reevaluation can expose relapses.

Logically if you have two players in the same position with long term injuries and neither are fit today but are scheduled to be fit in a month, you don't not consider that both players' fitness will be guaranteed in a month because you have to account for relapses whether you are told about it or not.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

It’s a difficult one alright but the fact that one is coming back from a very serious injury and the other has a track record of missing large chunks of yeh season for the past decade should have come into the decision making process.

I’m sure it did but I’d also imagine having 3 players competing for one spot, one of which is a loanee looking for game time would have factored in too.

Given that we let Reguilón and Fernandez go he must have been given strong assurances.

Keeping an extra player doesn't go against medical advice, it's a Football decision. Also I'm highly skeptical about the claim that the medical staff told him that he would have both players available at a specific date unless we are talking about players that were already fit for action. Medical staffs will give you a theoretical timetable that is dependent on future reevaluation(s) and said reevaluation can expose relapses.

Logically if you have two players in the same position with long term injuries and neither are fit today but are scheduled to be fit in a month, you don't not consider that both players' fitness will be guaranteed in a month because you have to account for relapses whether you are told about it or not.

Well the medical advice would 100% lead the footballing decision. Let’s say you run an office and you’ve have 2 employees coming back to work in the next week. They have been given the all clear by their Dr to return and want to return. Do you then ask your temp to have another 6 month contract or do you thank the temp for helping your business and see them on their way?

Why would Ten Hag lie about what he was told in public at a press conference? If we are to say that this is a lie then why believe anything anyone says ever? Judge him by the actions and words. If you don’t have very convincing reassurances then do you let all your other LB options leave?

 

[Leftback99]

Ten Hag played Dalot over Reguilon even when he was fit.

 

[VP89]

Ten Hag played Dalot over Reguilon even when he was fit.

Only certain games, and only if wan bissaka was available for the right.

 

[Leftback99]

Only certain games, and only if wan bissaka was available for the right.

And then when he did play (so that Ten Hag didn't have his balance excuse) we still got battered by the likes of Brighton, Newcastle and Bournemouth at home.

 

[JPRouve]

Well the medical advice would 100% lead the footballing decision. Let’s say you run an office and you’ve have 2 employees coming back to work in the next week. They have been given the all clear by their Dr to return and want to return. Do you then ask your temp to have another 6 month contract or do you thank the temp for helping your business and see them on their way?

Why would Ten Hag lie about what he was told in public at a press conference? If we are to say that this is a lie then why believe anything anyone says ever? Judge him by the actions and words. If you don’t have very convincing reassurances then do you let all your other LB options leave?

I keep the temp until I actually have the permanent workers doing their jobs at a normal(sufficient) rhythm. Especially when I have to maintain a certain level of productivity. And if we stick to sport, if my players are scheduled to be back sometimes in the current month, I don't trigger a clause to lose depth at the start of said month instead of doing it at the end of it.

Even if we assumed that somehow the medical staff guaranteed that the players would be 100% back( which is likely BS and meant to shift blame away from whoever decided to reduce squad depth, which could be Murtough, the owners, ETH or all of them). The execution is stupid, if I have a carpenter out and his doctor tells me that he should be back within a month, I don't get rid of his replacement a month early because I still have contracts to fulfill and if I do get rid of the temp then I am 100% responsible for whatever happens whether it is a relapse or an inability to work at the required rhythm for a weeks/months, it will be my decision that put us in that situation, not his doctor.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I keep the temp until I actually have the permanent workers doing their jobs at a normal(sufficient) rhythm. Especially when I have to maintain a certain level of productivity. And if we stick to sport, if my players are scheduled to be back sometimes in the current month, I don't trigger a clause to lose depth at the start of said month instead of doing it at the end of it.

Even if we assumed that somehow the medical staff guaranteed that the players would be 100% back( which is likely BS and meant to shift blame away from whoever decided to reduce squad depth, which could be Murtough, the owners, ETH or all of them). The execution is stupid, if I have a carpenter out and his doctor tells me that he should be back within a month, I don't get rid of his replacement a month early because I still have contracts to fulfill and if I do get rid of the temp then I am 100% responsible for whatever happens whether it is a relapse or an inability to work at the required rhythm for a weeks/months, it will be my decision that put us in that situation, not his doctor.

Which to be fair I agree with. If the temp was on a monthly rolling contract. But committing to 6months with the “knowledge” you have two employees coming back who do the job better would make the temp redundant very shortly.

I think triggering at the start would be more a favour to Reguilón to give him time to work out a move to another club. Something I wouldn’t begrudge him.

I see what you mean though. I think our issue is that any decision made then forces our temp staff to stick around for 6 months not on a rolling contract.

 

[VP89]

And then when he did play (so that Ten Hag didn't have his balance excuse) we still got battered by the likes of Brighton, Newcastle and Bournemouth at home.

Sorry, is your argument that there is an excuse for every single game lost?
If so you're just exaggerating for the nth time this season. There are games on Ten Hag, there are games of bad injuries.

By the way, we haven't played Newcastle at home.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Let's never forget the "Chosen One" banner for Moyes at Old Trafford. Yeah, we stopped doing cringe acts like that after he left, but a lot of the same underlying sentiments remain with the supporters and gets passed on from manager to manager and it's very much apparent with Ten Hag. It's kind of ironic how Manchester United, a club that once had one of the most ruthless reputations in Europe has probably the most lenient and forgiving fanbase of any top club.

Yup, and our managers have had a piss easy ride as generally, they've been given plenty to spend and have very little expectations placed upon them.

 

[Leftback99]

Sorry, is your argument that there is an excuse for every single game lost?
If so you're just exaggerating for the nth time this season. There are games on Ten Hag, there are games of bad injuries.

By the way, we haven't played Newcastle at home.

By the way, we have and we lost 3-0.

He played Dalot over a fit Reguilon away in the league game with Shaw at CB. Another one where we got hopelessly outplayed.

 

[VP89]

By the way, we have and we lost 3-0.

He played Dalot over a fit Reguilon away in the league game with Shaw at CB. Another one where we got hopelessly outplayed.

Ah - youre referring to the EFL Cup? I thought you were talking about in the league.
Did you read my post? I already said there are games where it's on him, and there are many games where he is burdened by injury. Is your suggestion that there is an excuse for every Ten Hag game? If so, you should revisit the post match forums in those games by these posters and revisit their sentiment.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

According to Ole on Nevilles Stick to Football, they do.

I find it hard to believe. Scouts are there to provide reports on players, they can recommend against signing someone but at the end of the day it's up to the people in charge and as we know the manager at United has the power to veto a transfer.

 

[AndySmith1990]

How often does any manager have their 1st XI available?

My memory isn't working right now but I'm absolutely certain Ferguson never had to experience the inconvenience of injuries during his 20+ years of continued success... It's impossible for world class managers to win anything without a full strength team, as we all know from the knowledgeable members of this forum

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Can someone post the stats for the matches when we had our 1st 11 please?

A better stat would be starting teams , amount of times they played together.

I’ve looked at figures before and if I remember right city/ Arsenal and Liverpool have up to 9 players play in 80% of their EPL games. We have 3, Bruno, Dalot and Onan. Two more have 65%, think it’s Rashford and Garnacho , I think everybody else is below 50%

 

[JPRouve]

Which to be fair I agree with. If the temp was on a monthly rolling contract. But committing to 6months with the “knowledge” you have two employees coming back who do the job better would make the temp redundant very shortly.

I think triggering at the start would be more a favour to Reguilón to give him time to work out a move to another club. Something I wouldn’t begrudge him.

I see what you mean though. I think our issue is that any decision made then forces our temp staff to stick around for 6 months not on a rolling contract.

You already committed to it when you initially loaned the player. If what we are talking about is accurate then we are talking about a 12 months loan that can be cancelled midseason, we are not talking about a 6 months loan that can be extended, the distinction is important because it means that the club planned to pay for 12 months and maybe shorten it if everything goes perfectly.

That assumption is based on the idea that we triggered a clause to end the contract.

 

[AndySmith1990]

I agree many of his critics are somewhat hysterical and unable to see beyond the unfortunate coach and the last result to the obviously broken football club. That said it's likely (judging by the mood music) ETH is getting sacked at the end of the season so Ratcliffe seems to agree with them and not us.

You wrongly believe Ten Hag is a casualty of a broken club because you cling on blindly to the belief he's something he isn't, instead of understanding Ten Hag is another poor managerial appointment by an incompetent club. He's another Moyes, but has enjoyed the luxury of being given time and backing instead of instantly ridiculed as a crap British manager. The end result is the same. Poor disjointed football and ultimately found lacking in a job too big for them

 

[Leftback99]

Ah - youre referring to the EFL Cup? I thought you were talking about in the league.
Did you read my post? I already said there are games where it's on him, and there are many games where he is burdened by injury. Is your suggestion that there is an excuse for every Ten Hag game? If so, you should revisit the post match forums in those games by these posters and revisit their sentiment.

I'm just not having the injuries excuse for being as bad as we are. Yes they are a factor (I've said enough so myself in the past) but with a decent system they should be the difference between us being a good team and a very good team, not a poor team and an average one.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

You wrongly believe Ten Hag is a casualty of a broken club because you cling on blindly to the belief he's something he isn't, instead of understanding Ten Hag is another poor managerial appointment by an incompetent club. He's another Moyes but has enjoyed the luxury of being given time instead of instantly ridiculed as a crap British manager

He is a casualty of a broken club. INEOs probably haven’t sacked him for this very reason.

Whether he is good enough to manage the club is a different discussion.

 

[Vidooq]

In hindsight, it would've been better to keep Reguilon, as Shaw, when fit, could've always provided back up on LCB.

 

[Roane]

Yup, and our managers have had a piss easy ride as generally, they've been given plenty to spend and have very little expectations placed upon them.

Just on this note, and others have said similar over the pages on here , have any of you folk been listening to the likes of the Ole and Rooney on podcasts?

That's just two recent ones but there have been others.

This is just my opinion but the managers appear to have had anything but an easy ride.

Yes they have signed players for big money but how do you get over what Rooney said, as in players didn't want Moyes? Or Ole saying players gave up and didn't even want to come out for a half of football?

 

[Tom Van Persie]

You wrongly believe Ten Hag is a casualty of a broken club because you cling on blindly to the belief he's something he isn't, instead of understanding Ten Hag is another poor managerial appointment by an incompetent club. He's another Moyes, but has enjoyed the luxury of being given time and backing instead of instantly ridiculed as a crap British manager. The end result is the same. Poor disjointed football and ultimately found lacking in a job too big for them

Stop with the hyperbole. ten Hag finished 3rd, won a trophy and reached the FA Cup final. Moyes took a title winning team to 7th.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Just on this note, and others have said similar over the pages on here , have any of you folk been listening to the likes of the Ole and Rooney on podcasts?

That's just two recent ones but there have been others.

This is just my opinion but the managers appear to have had anything but an easy ride.

Yes they have signed players for big money but how do you get over what Rooney said, as in players didn't want Moyes? Or Ole saying players gave up and didn't even want to come out for a half of football?

It's part of their job to inspire and motivate their team

 

[Roane]

He is a casualty of a broken club. INEOs probably haven’t sacked him for this very reason.

Whether he is good enough to manage the club is a different discussion.

Have to say prior to listening to likes of Rooney and Ole I would probably have been in the other fellas camp.

Now however I think we are a more than broken as a club. No manager will get us going forward until we fix club structure and player mentality

 

[pocco]

How often does any manager have their 1st XI available?

City have only been able to start Haaland and De Bruyne together 6 times this season, their two best players. Liverpool have had injuries all season and beat Chelsea with mostly kids on the pitch. Hell City won the league without a striker a couple of years ago.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Stop with the hyperbole. ten Hag finished 3rd, won a trophy and reached the FA Cup final. Moyes took a title winning team to 7th.

Ten Hag is as hopeless as Moyes and just as much out of his depth. I base that on (a lot) more than the overly simplistic view you've just provided

 

[JPRouve]

You wrongly believe Ten Hag is a casualty of a broken club because you cling on blindly to the belief he's something he isn't, instead of understanding Ten Hag is another poor managerial appointment by an incompetent club. He's another Moyes, but has enjoyed the luxury of being given time and backing instead of instantly ridiculed as a crap British manager. The end result is the same. Poor disjointed football and ultimately found lacking in a job too big for them

I get where you are coming from but this viewpoint is a bit misguided. Nearly all clubs including top clubs often makes poor managerial appointment, the actual difference between the competent and incompetent clubs is the ability to admit your mistakes and fix them quickly instead of doubling done or being paralyzed by failure.