That man was a visionary. It's getting harder and harder after the oil money poured in, he just said it 30 years too early.Didn't someone once say, something like -
You won't win anything with Kids
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
I take your point regarding Spurs and Arsenal but we are very, very thin in some areas beyond our starting 11 and we have starters who themselves are questionable. I would also say Spurs and Arsenal are in better positions than us simply due to Conte and Arteta being more established in their roles, further on with their own projects. Then Hag has a sh*tload on his plate moving on from where we currently are so I'd still put us behind both of those clubs.
Disagree that ETH needs to deliver top 4 (or CL qualification in any format) in his first season to keep his job.
What he needs is to show steady improvement, both in playing style and results. If we finish the season in 9th place playing shit zombie football, then yes, he will probably be sacked.
Fully agreed.
They were working off VHS.
He should be judged by second half of the season, even if he has a terrible first half (which is quite likely to happen because of the squad), and then gets us playing better and addresses the pain points over two windows (not all, major), then he should stay regardless if we finish 5th, 6th or 7th (I don't expect anything lower or higher).
Weren’t they watching via stream back in Russia and phoning Armas during the game?
Setting himself up to fail, with his “De Jong or bust” approach.
It’s pretty clear, that we do not have a Plan B target, and that if we do not sign De Jong, then he is content with McFred as his main midfielders.
It’s pretty clear, that we do not have a Plan B target, and that if we do not sign De Jong, then he is content with McFred as his main midfielders.
Yep. As much as we mocked Armas, at least his job was clear. What does Fletcher do?
Puts kids in line for the first team. He’s never had it so easy
I believe his official job description is “Overlord of all things Manchester United”
I really hope ETH will get us back to at least where we were few seasons ago.. The standards have dropped a lot, and this transfer market dropping it even further (if no one else coming in). I think if he gets us to compete for the domestic cups, and have a good run/win Europa, I think there will be hope. I’m excited for the new season, regardless of the transfer activity (obviously if we got more players, it would have been better), but I think many people underestimating what good coaching can do.
I think generally it is very clear to see if is the manager causing bad performances, if players are not up to speed yet and just making mistakes that will be ironed out, or if certain players are holding us back and being problematic. And that's what it comes down to ultimately.
Our squad right now has clear issues, but that won't stop Ten Hag from having his impact. How we play out from the back, how we press as a team, the patterns to get into the box, and then at a certain point it's down to the players. For example - in pre season I think there's been a night and day difference between Sancho and Elanga. Sancho brings Dalot into the game, helps our build up and creativity, and our attack clicks better. Elanga in for him and suddenly we aren't even using a side of the pitch, or it just breaks down on that side. To me that's clear player quality holding us down. Like if we have a striker who can't hold up the ball or refuses to press but have no other options, then it's a player holding the team back.
On the other hand, if we repeatedly make the same mistakes irrespective of selections, if we look dysfunctional regardless of players on the pitch, if the players aren't motivated, etc, that's clearly on the manager. A whole squad can't be demotivated as a player problem. That's always the management. Up to the management and coaching to give them a platform to succeed and show their best form. If they can't fit in, then they should be replaced. If we can't replace him, it's usually clear that the manager tries not to use them unless they have to.
So for me it's always the same. If the manager shows he's doing a good job but being held back by other factors, you always back them, regardless of table position or wins/losses or however luck pans out. Klopp finished 8th in his first season. It was obvious they were on the right path though. If it's obvious that the manager is holding the players back or causing the problems, then they have to go.
Our squad right now has clear issues, but that won't stop Ten Hag from having his impact. How we play out from the back, how we press as a team, the patterns to get into the box, and then at a certain point it's down to the players. For example - in pre season I think there's been a night and day difference between Sancho and Elanga. Sancho brings Dalot into the game, helps our build up and creativity, and our attack clicks better. Elanga in for him and suddenly we aren't even using a side of the pitch, or it just breaks down on that side. To me that's clear player quality holding us down. Like if we have a striker who can't hold up the ball or refuses to press but have no other options, then it's a player holding the team back.
On the other hand, if we repeatedly make the same mistakes irrespective of selections, if we look dysfunctional regardless of players on the pitch, if the players aren't motivated, etc, that's clearly on the manager. A whole squad can't be demotivated as a player problem. That's always the management. Up to the management and coaching to give them a platform to succeed and show their best form. If they can't fit in, then they should be replaced. If we can't replace him, it's usually clear that the manager tries not to use them unless they have to.
So for me it's always the same. If the manager shows he's doing a good job but being held back by other factors, you always back them, regardless of table position or wins/losses or however luck pans out. Klopp finished 8th in his first season. It was obvious they were on the right path though. If it's obvious that the manager is holding the players back or causing the problems, then they have to go.
The lack of transfer activity really worries me no matter how talented ten Hag is.
His role is to ensure that the academy is aligned with the first team. He works with the head of academy and the first team manager to look at various areas including first team development, academy player development roadmap for first team, type of players to sign for the academy, the training approaches etc.
Normally the director of football looks at this, but because Murtough is overseeing operations as well as the technical aspects, Fletcher is assisting him with the technical portion which is what has been mentioned above.
Is there a unwritten rule that we must sign 6 players minimum? With the exception of defensive/central midfield, we are well covered in the other areas, including academy talent.
Dont get why lack or transfer activity is worrying or something to blame ETH for. Transfers arent his job. He tells the people whos job it is the players he we wants and thats all he does. He will also talk to the player and explain the player how he intends to use that player and what his goals are but negotiating or drafting a contract isnt ETH his job.
Dont worry though, season is almost starting.. At that point people can start calling him a fraud for not starting the right players, not making the correct subs and bad tactics. Followed by a ''should have gone for Poch' or Conte' or something like that..
Dont worry though, season is almost starting.. At that point people can start calling him a fraud for not starting the right players, not making the correct subs and bad tactics. Followed by a ''should have gone for Poch' or Conte' or something like that..
Is that true for United? Seriously asking because I can't keep up with the changes, Ralf leaving was my last checkpoint.
Like for example Martinez was approved by ETH so he's responsible for him, but if we don't land any midfielder it's because someone else didn't do his job?
Too many Football Manager/FIFA merchants on here that think they know much better. I mean they judge where we finish on how many payers we sign ffs.
If only it was that straighforward.Wait what? You think we’re fine up front? And right back? Some will argue GK as well.
And being short in midfield is a huge deal. We are seriously short of talent. Any manager no matter who they are, needs the top players to be a success. Look at Pep’s first season at City. Or Klopp before Salah, Allison, Van Dijk.
Don‘t play any of those things but thanks for guessing.You think we’re fine going into the new season then?Too many Football Manager/FIFA merchants on here that think they know much better. I mean they judge where we finish on how many payers we sign ffs.
Poch is available... so that dream for some won't die for now.
The brief was to improve existing players and try and get some players in with the right attitude. Feel like ETH is doing fine so far. Look at the transfer window in general, many clubs are having trouble shifting/signing players. Seems like a tricky time. That said if we end up looking stupid over FDJ I would wonder why he was pursued for so long and so publicly. Let’s see
We are well covered in midfield too even. Maybe not to a top top level, but we have good players starting and decent players as depth.
- Fred - incredibly underrated and is a starter for Brazil along with regularly being one of our best players over the years
- Bruno - obviously
- Eriksen - obviously - up to Ten Hag to make them work together
- Van de Beek - i don't rate him too highly but he is decent and was previously rated highly (under ten hag). As squad player obvious
- McTominay - as squad player, very good option. Not talented enough as a starter but has his place
- Garner - loads of people rate him highly, Forest fans loved him, just needs to mentally step up and show his talent. But he's a premier league level young player as our 6th midfielder
- Martial - always had talent, but struggled with fitness. If fit, could be a very good player again
- Rashford - multiple top years, 1 bad year. He'll be fine and back to being good.
- Sancho - potentially world class, wouldn't swap him for anyone in the league apart from probably haaland as strikers are harder to get
- Ronaldo - IMO should go as he isn't good for the group and doesn't suit Ten Hag at all, but better than nothing
- Elanga/Amad/Garnacho/Pellistri - none of them are ready to play for Man United on the right
We can make do without more midfield signings - of course it's a weakness, but we still have decent to good players as starters or depth. In attack, we are currently forced to overplay all of them which might cause injuries and a loss of form, and that's just negligence.
Yes we are fine up front. Like i said we also have academy talent coming in as well.
The key thing for ETH is to be tactically versatile. Even if we get all the top players, you cannot guarantee that all will adapt immediately and injuries can happen. So he will still need to identify different type of formations that brings out the best of the squad. This will determine his success in the long run. From what i have observed from the squad and ETH's tactical approach, we are in for a good season (unless your aim is to win the EPL immediately).
No I don’t aim for the PL. I’m concerned we won’t get top 4. The competition is so strong and we finally have a brilliant manager in his prime. He deserves to be backed fully and it seems we have a thin squad and a few injuries away from major issues, especially up front. Say Martial and Sandro get injured. We rely on Elanga and ….Garnacho who has just turned 18. A serious talent but a kid.
Our rivals. They also have some of the best managers around. There’s no Lampard at Chelsea this time, or Keegan at Newcastle.
Our squad while far from perfect should keep us in the running until the last game of the season unless we are to assume 4th place ends up being on 75+points. This squad can get around 66-70 points.
I think how ETH would be judged come the end of the season would depend on multiple factors starting from league position in relation to our opponent level, if the battle for top four is anything like last season and we don't make it he wouldn't be viewed favorably, you can't actually be playing "good football" and finish behind the version of Tottenham and Arsenal we saw last season.
I see all the lamenting about our window so far, but weather we get that one or two signings in won't be as decisive in the long run, we have moved past that individual dominant model to a more team based model (hopefully), and yes while the quality of the individuals within the team matters, we already have a lot of quality, in real life the make shift player in the "De Jong role" Fred could end up the player of the season. One of four youth forwards (Garnacho, Pellistri, Amad, Elanga) could have a break out season at least to the level of being a viable substitute. And this is assuming we don't get in a few more addition before the window close which I feel we will. No need to panic on the long run we're on the right path. Believe!!
I see all the lamenting about our window so far, but weather we get that one or two signings in won't be as decisive in the long run, we have moved past that individual dominant model to a more team based model (hopefully), and yes while the quality of the individuals within the team matters, we already have a lot of quality, in real life the make shift player in the "De Jong role" Fred could end up the player of the season. One of four youth forwards (Garnacho, Pellistri, Amad, Elanga) could have a break out season at least to the level of being a viable substitute. And this is assuming we don't get in a few more addition before the window close which I feel we will. No need to panic on the long run we're on the right path. Believe!!
I’m expecting a high bar this season to get 4th. City and Liverpool are givens. So it’s us, Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal. Not easy.
We have a really talented Manager. But we would need to have luck with injuries because you only have to take out say Fred and Sancho and suddenly the team looks way off. Not trying to be negative, just realistic. How would Klopp do with a front 3 of Rashford Martial Elanga? or our midfield? He’d struggle to get top 4 as well.
Patience has gone down the shitter. I fully expect ten hag to be thrown under the bus by the players, board and a segment of the fanbase by christmas.
In that order.
Ten Hag is going to get a lot more patience from me than any other manager.
My expectations were top 4 contention and win a trophy but not now. How he implements his style of football will be interesting to watch though.
My expectations were top 4 contention and win a trophy but not now. How he implements his style of football will be interesting to watch though.
Acceptance of his resignation is also a decision.
Objectively ETH has a weaker squad than Ole did last season. I don't see how FIFA someone would have to play for common sense to kick in that United need multiple signings to cover weaker areas of the squad. Or is a 6th place finish the worst in the club's history within the premier League era not enough of a barometer to assess the squads capabilities ?Too many Football Manager/FIFA merchants on here that think they know much better. I mean they judge where we finish on how many payers we sign ffs.
He was sacked
7th under Moyes
It also goes without saying that he would have wanted all our business done before the season starts. Ideally before pre-season. Even if we hire 2 or 3 players before the end of this month a few bad results in the opening games could make all the difference in the league table in May.
Or maybe there are people who realize that a midfield of Fred, McTominay, and Garner is never going to compete with midfields that contain players such as Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Tchoumeni, Valverde and Camavinga.Too many Football Manager/FIFA merchants on here that think they know much better. I mean they judge where we finish on how many payers we sign ffs.
Luckily for them this season they won't have to compete with that players :P
Poch baby
Couldn't think of anything worse to be honest, if this was the thinking of the board.
If this was the future for us we may as well write the next 5 years off from a trophy and entertainment spectacle.
How about De Bruyne, Rodri, Gundogan, Phillips, Bernando Silva and Alvarez?