Puting faith in qualified personnel to get it right isnt just thrown in the bin because there are few cases where they draw a wrong conclusion.
I trust them more than forum fans or lazy skysports pundits.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
I trust them more than forum fans or lazy skysports pundits.
A) no they havent, theyve criticised him plenty as is their right. b) youre still missing the point- from my point of view, and probably ten hags too, is that there is just no way they would ask guardiola or klopp, for example, if they were embarrassed or if their players were. As plenty have pointed out, cup upsets happen all the time, the same media peddle the 'magic of the cup' shite, for this exact reason. There was a general explosion of emotion and anger that var 'robbed' them of their great story and uniteds greatest humiliation, and they were all overreacting. Fans are allowed to be emotional in the heat of a game, professional journalists should do better.
That's not a stance I suggested you should take. In fact, my replies to you suggest a more measured approach rather than oh '"qualified people = trust the audit" or vice versa. For the record qualified people failing isn't a "few cases" thing, it happens all the time.
In respect of the frequency of audits, it is a few. A very small percentage in fact.
My approach was perfectly measured, there's no need for your concern.
I trust in Wilcox to be able to deduce the right conclusions from the audit. Can he get it wrong? Yes. Is he likely to? No. Is he more than likely to deduce a more informed conclusion than us? Yes. Do I trust him on that account to get to the right decision? Yes.
He has been diabolical all season. Criticism has been relatively mild considering our poor results and disastrous performances.
Tbh not sure what all the fuss is about, Ten Hag could have got far worse after Sunday's game, and the media are just doing what they always do. Lapping up every United drama like they do with no other club, because that's what makes them money.
Its definately not bad luck we have had problems with injuries at this club for years.
And a United manager has every right to call it what it is
He did an interview after 2/3 games last season, an interview where he had to defend himself and his methods.
How is his approval improving since Sunday I remember it being at 21.8....
I'm curious about this stance, which I guess is probably the majority view. Why is no amount of injuries an excuse? Surely there is, rationally, a number of injuries which would be considered a reasonable excuse? And if so, where should we actually draw the line? I think something often happens where fans will be quite rational about what can be expected during a short injury crisis and their tolerance threshold simply moves as a crisis drags on.
I think injuries this season have been so debilitating to ETH's ability to ever put players capable of what he wants in the positions he wants them in, not just in one or two positions but in a handful of positions in the majority of games, that I don't think you can really use this season as a measure of how successfully he might manage us in a season with a more typical number of injuries, with someone else in control of transfer business. I just think fewer people agree with me now because there's a fatigue that develops watching your team play badly and lose over an entire season.
Allegations that his transfers and other decisions left us with fewer good options to weather the injury crisis are entirely fair.
And I completely agree with your second paragraph, clearly the injuries can't be viewed as some unavoidable act of god either, and some part/parts of the blame there should fall on the manager.
Not saying he doesn't, but he can hardly be surprised.
Like i say I don't think the media stuff was even that bad given the circumstances.
How hard were they on Klopp last season? Bollocks.
Do you think they would talk like this to Guardiola? He tells them their job sucks to their faces. They bend over for him and take it.
Think back to the opening game and the Onana penalty call that wasn’t given. Have you ever seen such a media reaction to that, and a fecking apology from the Refs to Wolves? (I don’t think it was a penalty).
Crickets if we don’t get a penalty (Højlund against Arsenal, Romero blocks Garnacho shot with arm against Spurs).
They won’t even show you the replay most of the time.
Nah man, there is a real media bias against us.
I think you are too used to ABU media to be honest
Are you suggesting the cafe poll is as bend as PGMOL?
"In respect of the frequency of audits"? What?
I'm not concerned about you, I'm concerned about the framing that we should trust the outcome of the audit because Wilcox.
The whole point of a forum is to- ah nevermind. You just always seem in a combative stance.
It's over.
Do you struggle with comprehension? What percentage of audits do you think generally fall to the wrong conclusion?
And I said there's no need for your concern.
You came out with some pedantic nonsense that had nothing to do with my point.
And then you called me combative. Very ironic.
Of course they didn’t go after Klopp in the same way because he has proven his credentials over several seasons. Same way Fergie would have had an easier time if he had had a terrible outlier season.
There is a negative narrative around United, which sometimes leads to overly negative coverage. The Wolves call is a good example. But it’s mostly our own doing. And ETH certainly hasn’t gotten more criticism than he’s deserved.
It's unlikely to be one thing only. But ETH admitted when Hojlund got injured it was a product of his intense training techniques. Now that's all well and good when you have a young big squad, but we don't even have 11 players we can trust to play in a high press, let alone 22. So he was cutting his own throat by refusing to compromise on intensity in training. So to my mind, while the main problem is the club, he's also brought some of this on himself.
Like Klopp last season? No
Again, he has a bit more credit in the bank, for obvious reasons.
Then what you said previously isn't true then
Goalposts moving alert.....he's been criticised all season, called out of his depth and has had constant calls or reasons why united should sack him. What exactly do you consider a level up from this sort of criticism? Im genuinely asking. For professional journalists to criticise in those ways (As they are entitled to do) that you call 'mild', tell me what severe criticism looks like? Personal attacks? Rumours about how bad he is in bed? What are you actually talking about? You're plainly wrong. It really is that simple. He's gotten as criticised as any manager of any big club would and has been (english managers aside)
Slamdunk. But wait, the net will move again...
Its been since day one. Or I would argue since before he took over. And tough luck to him, he has to be a tough character if he wants to manage united. But there's copious amounts of shit in this thread, just plain lying for the sake of it.
That is just not my experience of the media coverage. What I saw for months was most pundits and journalists criticizing our performances but stopping short of blaming ETH or questioning his qualities. Only recently did they start pointing the finger directly at ETH. Considering how bad it’s been this season, I think it could have been a lot worse a lot earlier.
Thats a lot of BS. Charrager did a whole segment trying to berate Ten Hags system. Then they dicked on it some more on the Overlap. Just days ago Charrager said he's basically a dead man walking. As has Shearer.
Yes, and that was the end of February.
He also questioned him and his lack of progression months before that. In October.
Where’s this. The media-fed berks on here who can’t back their own manager / team are really starting to boil my p1ss
Some of us support the club, not the manager
Did it occur to you that maybe it is because some of us are not media-fed that we don't share this "feck media" attitude and simply base our opinions on what we see on the field?
Whatever people think of ETH that isn’t the point. I can’t see how people can’t separate the two things.
The media ignoring the penalty in the last minute of stoppage time that should have been overturned, then the penalty we didn’t get which was far more of a shout than the one they gave….while focussing on an offside goal…is embarrassing.
Turn the incidents around and all the talk would be the opposite of what it was
The media ignoring the penalty in the last minute of stoppage time that should have been overturned, then the penalty we didn’t get which was far more of a shout than the one they gave….while focussing on an offside goal…is embarrassing.
Turn the incidents around and all the talk would be the opposite of what it was
It did mate, believe it or not. It’s why I used the term media-fed berks.
People who can think for themselves are more than welcome, even if their opinion differs from mine.
Unfortunately the tide of the media-fed berks gets bigger by the hour.
I can only speak for myself here, but my view is that a top manager should be capable of getting results under adverse circumstances. I wouldn't expect any manager to win 15 games in a row with 10 first team players out injured, but they should be able to get results by changing their game plan.
When ETH keeps saying he can't play his style of football because players in certain positions are out injured, this implies to me he can only succeed under ideal circumstances. And ideal circumstances hardly ever occur at this level of football.
All top sides even this season have had spells with key players out injured, and their performance expectedly dropped, but they still got the results. That to me highlights their managers' and teams ability to eke out results under adverse circumstances. I recognize they have better squads, but then again our manager has been responsible for almost a dozen signings, only a few of whom have actually strengthened us.
Ever since the last international break, we haven't won a game in 90 mins. During this time we are only missing 2-3 key starters. If you are still using injuries as an excuse for our performances against Brentford, Bournemouth, Coventry, then I'm sorry I just cannot agree with it. With the available squad we should have won all these games. Especially when as I mentioned in my previous post, you have constructed a squad where certain key players are well established as being injury prone.
It's not true though. You had high profile pundits such as Murphy and Keown calling him out of his depth as early as october. Sky listing reasons why Ratcliffe could sack him in early December. Carragher saying he lacks charisma and character. I don't know what news you consume, but he'd been treated like a dead man walking since a couple of early defeats in the season.
yeah I’m sure if Klopp or Pep capitulated a 3 goal lead to the mighty Coventry conceding 11 goals in the last 4 games they’d be slaughtered too
We must just have a different media diet then. I mostly read The Athletic, where Carl Anka and Laurie Whitwell have been quite apologetic of him, and The Guardian, and watch Sky Sports/Overlap stuff on YouTube.
I think Neville called it right, injuries can account for the results to an extent. But they can't explain just how bad performances have been all season.
That all sounds pretty fair to me.
Anyway, you're talking about United-hating knob heads who played for our rivals. They'd find a way of criticising Ferguson if he were still here.
On the whole Ten Hag is getting off far lighter than he should be considering how bad he is. It's pretty odd behaviour to see some people applauding him for having a go at journalists the moment they start having a go. He should count himself fortunate it's taken this long