You think a manager should have all that control over transfers? They’ve failed him either way, it’s been clear De Jong didn’t want to join 12 weeks ago.That seems based more on speculation. It could well be that it was him who insisted on waiting for FDJ and rejecting suggestions for other #6s. In which case the lack of #6 at the start of the season burdens him the most.
In any case he had Eriksen and instead of playing him at #8 to help with ball control in midfield, he played him at #9. He could have played Ronaldo at #9, or if he didn't want to play Ronaldo from the off then Rashford up top and Elanga/Garnacho at LW. But no, he chose the most unorthodox line up by playing without a ball playing CM and without a striker and he paid for it. He didn't need setting up to fail yesterday, he achieved that by himself.
EDIT: Yes, sure, there are glaring problems with the club and its recruitment. And yes, ETH of course deserves time to suss things out. We're not saying otherwise. But yesterday he had the options to set up a better team than he did and chose not to. So most of the blame lies with him for this particular game. Let's hope he learns from it.
If yesterday was a fresh set of problems you could then say it was a formation issue.Even if you have the world's best players, if you play them in a formation where their positions are easily countered by the opponent's formation, they will struggle. Playing a 4-1-2-3 against a 3-6-1 is bound to collapse as the 6 man midfield will squeeze the space of a 3 man midfield. It doesn't matter if you have the best DM and best CMs, there is just not enough space to work with. ETH realized this, which is why he made a formation shift in the 2nd half, leading to better control and a goal.
How much control is "all that control"? Sometimes managers do insist on specific players. See Mourinho and his insistence on Perisic. That goes double if they know them from previous cooperation. But that doesn't mean they have complete control of transfer policy. Again, I simply don't know if waiting for FDJ was on the insistence of Ten Hag or the lack of alternatives suggested from the club.You think a manager should have all that control over transfers? They’ve failed him either way, it’s been clear De Jong didn’t want to join 12 weeks ago.
There's obvious incompetence at play from Murtough as well. No doubt. ETH should have had a better team at the start of the season and he doesn't. But I will shit on them on their own threads and not absolve ETH of his responsibility to manage the team to the best of his ability and not make nonsensical choices. Like Ronaldo on the bench, Eriksen at 9 and McFred in midfield.We all agreed that a new scouting system was needed but sacking most of them without a plan to replace this summer is beyond incompetence.
That's a pretty bad argument, because Brighton didn't play us off the park in the second half when he made the change. Instead we gained control of midfield. If you want to see what not having control of midfield for 90mins against Brighton looks like, you only have to cast your eyes back to 3 months ago when they thumped us 4-0. We were not playing a top team, we were playing Brighton at Old Trafford.Eriksen in midfield would’ve been slightly better but hardly comparable to other top teams midfields. Brighton would’ve still played us off the park, because this team and squad is well below good enough.
Yeah he should've had the humility and wisdom to at least meet with Rangnick and hear his assessment of the squad.
It's a bit tiresome to keep switching managers only for them to go through the same tedious process of slowly coming to the conclusion certain players are crap, when we've all known it for ages.
Its incredible. As woeful as central defence was, the 3 areas you mentioned were worse. To not be able to secure a right back better than Dalot isn't reality - this is wilful neglect of squadThe amazing thing for me is that our top three areas to improve at the start of the summer were defensive midfield, right back and striker... so we start the season with Dalot, McTominay and no striker whatsoever! A midfielder was needed from the last start of last season, never mind this season. They've had over a year to identify a player. Matic has left too, so I would argue we need two, not just one. Haven't even got one in.
We were slightly less shit in the 2nd half, conceded chances while creating very little. Brighton were sitting back a lot more also, so it’s a guessing game of what would’ve happened had we set up differently from the off.How much control is "all that control"? Sometimes managers do insist on specific players. See Mourinho and his insistence on Perisic. That goes double if they know them from previous cooperation. But that doesn't mean they have complete control of transfer policy. Again, I simply don't know if waiting for FDJ was on the insistence of Ten Hag or the lack of alternatives suggested from the club.
There's obvious incompetence at play from Murtough as well. No doubt. ETH should have had a better team at the start of the season and he doesn't. But I will shit on them on their own threads and not absolve ETH of his responsibility to manage the team to the best of his ability and not make nonsensical choices. Like Ronaldo on the bench, Eriksen at 9 and McFred in midfield.
That's a pretty bad argument, because Brighton didn't play us off the park in the second half when he made the change. Instead we gained control of midfield. If you want to see what not having control of midfield for 90mins against Brighton looks like, you only have to cast your eyes back to 3 months ago when they thumped us 4-0. We were not playing a top team, we were playing Brighton at Old Trafford.
You people are insane. The only reason we are targeting players he knows is because:
a - our scouting department just undertook a massive reset
b - ETH wants to inject his system quickly, hence targeting players he knows would fit said scheme
This doesn't necessarily reflect every transfer window for the next 5 years.
It's just been a really horrible 24 hours - I was largely apathetic towards the end of last season but any little bits of hope seem to have gone. From McFred starting, seeing the players head drop straight away, the panic signings. It's all a bit much. I still have total faith in ETH though it's just been a rollercoaster dayYou know what's funny yeah this summer it was almost like we collectively agreed that it would be rough and we would be united behind ETH who would get a free pass for the year. There was even some positivity online before the game.
It really says it all how bad this situation is though both in terms of the transfer window and the team at large that that's all gone tits up after ONE GAME. You just know that even the chronically positive lot are absolutely fuming, don't get me wrong obviously nobody wants him gone but i mean that team looked like they had just started preseason not the opening day of the league under a new manager.
I can’t believe that the Caf is already judging ETH after 1, yes 1, league game. WTF???? Most of the posters on here live in cloud cuckoo land.
The club has only just started getting the right structures in place and it will take time to get the right players in place to implement ETH’s ideas, just as Fergie needed time when he was appointed. There are no short term fixes. Meanwhile, players like Arnoutovic or Rabiot would be good short term acquisitions to temporarily fix gaping holes in the squad. Players of the quality of de Jong are extremely difficult to sign and the club needs time to identify and target the right long term fixes to the squad. Meanwhile, the fans need to be patient and give the club the chance to get their house in order after a decade of mismanagement. Remember Fergie’s first 5 seasons..
Anything would be better than Mcfred, that’s the thing. We looked better with Matic last year and it’s clear they aren’t up for it. We need forwards in now. Feck knows why it’s Arnie but I’m pretty sure he’s only here for numbers at this point and as a plan b off the bench. Yesterdays bench was shocking, but then again our front 3 was horrendous too.I agree.
We need bodies to fit his system. We literally only played one game with mostly the same team as last year, only even worse of version.
Give him time.
time without additions is a waste of time. So what we are saying is give our transfer team more time. Given they’ve had12 months to define their strategy and execute it…it’s abit of an ask.I agree.
We need bodies to fit his system. We literally only played one game with mostly the same team as last year, only even worse of version.
Give him time.
That's a good way to put it the hope has gone hasn't it like theres no way out, ETH is only one man he can't fight against an incompetent structure, greedy owners and an ill equipped squad. Personally i won't be worried unless he starts the problem players again at Brentford, that will really illustrate nothing has changed.It's just been a really horrible 24 hours - I was largely apathetic towards the end of last season but any little bits of hope seem to have gone. From McFred starting, seeing the players head drop straight away, the panic signings. It's all a bit much. I still have total faith in ETH though it's just been a rollercoaster day
Arnautovic and Rabiot are just more of the same shitty signings that won’t resolve anything.I can’t believe that the Caf is already judging ETH after 1, yes 1, league game. WTF???? Most of the posters on here live in cloud cuckoo land.
The club has only just started getting the right structures in place and it will take time to get the right players in place to implement ETH’s ideas, just as Fergie needed time when he was appointed. There are no short term fixes. Meanwhile, players like Arnoutovic or Rabiot would be good short term acquisitions to temporarily fix gaping holes in the squad. Players of the quality of de Jong are extremely difficult to sign and the club needs time to identify and target the right long term fixes to the squad. Meanwhile, the fans need to be patient and give the club the chance to get their house in order after a decade of mismanagement. Remember Fergie’s first 5 seasons..
Maybe those targets are saying 'no chance, pal, not Man Utd, not right now' and he's forced into this. We don't know.I'm within a similar situation not concerning the team sheet but the transfer strategy. Luckhurst's recent tweets all but confirm that ETH is running the show for recruitment this summer and it's actually an outright embarrassment that he is only targeting individuals he has worked with previously. I'm not saying he's a bad manager but surely with the resources at his disposal he can do better to cast a wider net at players concerning new transfers.
Agree on the sentiment. I've wondered if it was arrogance, ignorance or optimism. The way it's been portrayed is that ETH wanted full control of the club but to forgo the opinion of an individual who has been extremely successful in assessing players seems short sighted.Yeah he should've had the humility and wisdom to at least meet with Rangnick and hear his assessment of the squad.
It's a bit tiresome to keep switching managers only for them to go through the same tedious process of slowly coming to the conclusion certain players are crap, when we've all known it for ages.
Nope! I reckon he told Murtough to 'Get me my midfielder', so Murtough knowing he can't get FDJ went for this guyanyone serioulsy believe he asked for rabiot?
He could at least have the decency to veto Arnautovic. The manager of MUFC shouldn't be considering a scumbag like him.Arnautovic and Rabiot are just more of the same shitty signings that won’t resolve anything.
Can’t judge ETH after one game, he’ll need lots of money and lots of time, he might well get neither. Have to feel sorry for ETH, has a very tough season ahead.
Anyone who think the Glazers, Murtough and Arnold are sorting this out is living in a fantasy land. All you can guarantee is they’ll continue to line their pockets whilst presiding over a complete shit show.
Maguire was alright I thought. Dunno why he's getting so much shit.If he is a proper manager Shaw, Maguire and McFred will be on the bench next week. We are already losing with them so give me Malacia, Varane, Eriksen/Garner. Apparently Eriksen played more forward passes in the limited time he was moved to CM than Fred or McTominay had played the whole time they were on the pitch. Just saying club isn't gonna get any better or win many games as long as Fred, McTominay and Maguire are 3/4 of the CM & CB
When put like this it makes bad reading but I guess it's a 3 year process so he's doing what he can in the short term to get results, not that it worked yesterday! That being said I'd struggle to support a team with Arnautovic in it.It's Game 1 but questions do have to be asked.
He's (a) persistent on Arnautovic - a racist and vile character - and he has (b) clearly been mugged off by De Jong meaning we've been chasing after a target who had no interest in us and (c) he thought McFred could be starters and could play Eriksen as a False 9 and (d) has repeatedly said "we sign the right player or we work with what we've got" with the players we've got being utter shit and (e) he keeps targeting Dutch players or players he's worked with which is absurd.
So, yes, questions have to be asked.
Especially as even I couldn't understand Klopp's apparent reluctance to strengthen the core, centre def, keeper, just seemed bizarre. Then he obviously got the green light and they transformed.Some of you lot need to chill. ETH is brilliant. He needs a few years. I can absolutely remember Klopp’s/Peps first few seasons.
It’s panic and desperation now, two players we’d never have considered weeks ago both with attitude problems. But they are cheap and available so looking for the right player has gone out the window.He could at least have the decency to veto Arnautovic. The manager of MUFC shouldn't be considering a scumbag like him.
Kinda wonder if The club is happy to proceed with short term older signings to pad up the squad maybe Conte was the answer after all
He's pushing the Arnautovic deal. And I find it hard to believe that he's not on board with the Rabiot signing since he seems to have final say on everything.If he has seriously ok'd deals for Arnautivic and rabiot then he isn't going to last long.
It’s the culmination of about a decade of built up tension, especially from the last few years.You know what's funny yeah this summer it was almost like we collectively agreed that it would be rough and we would be united behind ETH who would get a free pass for the year. There was even some positivity online before the game.
It really says it all how bad this situation is though both in terms of the transfer window and the team at large that that's all gone tits up after ONE GAME. You just know that even the chronically positive lot are absolutely fuming, don't get me wrong obviously nobody wants him gone but i mean that team looked like they had just started preseason not the opening day of the league under a new manager.
He's pushing the Arnautovic deal. And I find it hard to believe that he's not on board with the Rabiot signing since he seems to have final say on everything.
Heard this alot. He was one of his first signings, played a squad role, and they won the league that year.As an dutchie At Ajax there were also complaints about ten hag signing famillair players who are out of depth like zakaria labyad who he worked with at Utrecht who was benchwarmer at Ajax and jurgen klaiber who also never played
We didn’t play a striker yesterday. Of course Arnautovic is a massive upgrade on Erikson as false 9 when he’s needed much deeper.Well it's ridiculous then.
Arnautovic is 33 and not a prolific scorer. Even as a back up its a poor choice.
Rabiot is known to have attitude problems and again is the definition of average. Neither are an upgrade on what we have which says it all.
Conte doesn't fight with his players but yes he would've demanded a lot from the board right away.Conte should've been who we went for 100% but he is similar to Jose in the sense that he would've been in constant arguments with the board and players. Im certain Conte would've sold half this squad by now, martial, rashford, Shaw would've been moved on without doubt.
