Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[pocco]

The problem ETH had is, in order to get the job he had to go through an interview process. He had to sell himself to Man United to get the job.

He couldn't say to the board, the squad is pathetic, we need to spend 300 million and replace them all. He wouldn't of got the job.

Mourinho was in a similar situation with Spurs, he said all the right things, that he wanted to play attacking football and he was happy with the squad, then when the sh** hit the fan he reverted back to parking the bus and slagging off the squad.

ETH is in a long term (hopefully) battle with the board, unfortunately, Man United are no longer about winning football games, Cash is king.

He needs time to change the squad gradually over maybe 3 to 5 years before he can be judged.

Every man and his dog knows Maguire is nowhere good enough for Man United but if ETH had said that in his interview, would he of got the job? No he wouldn't, he had to speak music to the ears of the board, where cash is King. They don't want to offload Maguire for 7 million and have to spend another £50m.

That's the opposite of what we heard. The stories coming out were that he went in on the club and gave them a grilling. Even so much so that Arnold apparently wanted to meet him on his own so he could speak freely about things that might reflect badly on Murtough etc.

So what did he demand and what have we done to support him? Because it looks very little to me.

Even if he did ask the club to focus on FDJ to make sure we could afford him, they should have said "don't worry, we'll have the money but let's get your other targets whilst we wait". That's what a club serious about getting back to the top would do.

 

[pocco]

After all we’ve been through as fans it’s only fair. The decisions are baffling right now and it’s clear to everyone.

It doesn't look good does it. I just hope that this is on the club and not Erik, I can't go through that again with another failed manager. I also hope he comes down like a tonne of bricks on these players and rolls out the changes to more deserved players. Or at least give more time and more bench space to the youngsters who, let's be honest, were the shining light in pre season. It simply HAS to be on merit from now on. I thought this would be the first principle from a manager like ETH.

 

[Newtonius]

It might be stating the obvious at this point but i think we are broke personally, or at least very very restricted in what we can do. Don't really have any explanation otherwise i mean we are not acting like a club with money in this market, like Chelsea for instance who are going after everyone, even if it sometimes doesn't work out.

Dont think its a coincidence either that the Glazers are in the stands and the day after they try go after 3 players.

You can hear the greedy incompetent rationale can't you, "well a lot of this squad finished second a couple of years ago and now you have a good manager there is no need to spend money" etc.

I hope to see big changes for the next game. I'll almost be at the stage of despair already if we see a similar team selected. If he plays youth players then I think more supporters could accept the season isn't going to be smooth, with a view to the bigger picture. I think we will need a good DM to support the young midfielders though, if they were given a chance. I can't see it happening though.

Yeah this for sure if we don't see big changes next game then that's the point to worry. Its still a possibility he highly underestimated and overestimated both the league and the squad, again "this team finished 2nd" "waiting for the right players" etc. It has to be big changes too, if Martial is still injured then Rashford up front Garnacho on the left. Donny for Bruno, Eriksen and Fred deep. Malacia for Shaw. etc etc.

 

[croadyman]

It might be stating the obvious at this point but i think we are broke personally, or at least very very restricted in what we can do. Don't really have any explanation otherwise i mean we are not acting like a club with money in this market, like Chelsea for instance who are going after everyone, even if it sometimes doesn't work out.

Dont think its a coincidence either that the Glazers are in the stands and the day after they try go after 3 players.

You can hear the greedy incompetent rationale can't you, "well a lot of this squad finished second a couple of years ago and now you have a good manager there is no need to spend money" etc.



Yeah this for sure if we don't see big changes next game then that's the point to worry. Its still a possibility he highly underestimated and overestimated both the league and the squad, again "this team finished 2nd" "waiting for the right players" etc. It has to be big changes too, if Martial is still injured then Rashford up front Garnacho on the left. Donny for Bruno, Eriksen and Fred deep. Malacia for Shaw. etc etc.

We are broke then it's over for us as a big club so thanks you yankee leeches for landing the fatal blow on this once great club

 

[bosnian_red]

It might be stating the obvious at this point but i think we are broke personally, or at least very very restricted in what we can do. Don't really have any explanation otherwise i mean we are not acting like a club with money in this market, like Chelsea for instance who are going after everyone, even if it sometimes doesn't work out.

Dont think its a coincidence either that the Glazers are in the stands and the day after they try go after 3 players.

You can hear the greedy incompetent rationale can't you, "well a lot of this squad finished second a couple of years ago and now you have a good manager there is no need to spend money" etc.



Yeah this for sure if we don't see big changes next game then that's the point to worry. Its still a possibility he highly underestimated and overestimated both the league and the squad, again "this team finished 2nd" "waiting for the right players" etc. It has to be big changes too, if Martial is still injured then Rashford up front Garnacho on the left. Donny for Bruno, Eriksen and Fred deep. Malacia for Shaw. etc etc.

Thing is if we are truly broke with a really small transfer budget, we should be going all out for the free agents while we can. And not be spending 55m on any single player in that case. There are plenty of deals to be found.our problem is 8e that we get too caught up on 1 target and don't have multiple targets. We aren't flexible in the market at all.

 

[Sweet Square]

While there clearly is the same old United shiteness we get in almost every transfer window, I do think people are genuinely underestimating just how much of a nerd Ten Hag is(The man had the training pitch cut to exactly 15 millimetres).

He seems to be buying players who fit certain roles in a system rather than getting in the “best” football players(Martinez is a good example of this). All of which is making us very confused but at this point we’ve just got to bet that Ten Hag is smarter than everyone else.

Basically the guy has over 200 hours in PES and still hasn’t been sacked. He must be doing something right.

 

[croadyman]

While there is clearly the same old United shiteness we get almost in every transfer window, I do think people are genuinely underestimating just how much of a nerd Ten Hag is. He seems to be buying players who fits certain roles in a system rather getting in the “best” football players(Martinez is a good example of this).

At this point we’ve just got to bet that Ten Hag is smarter than everyone else.

I can't feel any positivity whoever is signed because these leeches have totally killed any morale for this club

 

[bond19821982]

I need to hear from those supporters that were absolutely convinced of ETH, because as much as it genuinely pains me to say it, I am a bit worried.

I was at the game this weekend and left shell shocked. I think my exact words when Brighton scored the second and we looked abysmal were "this cannot be happening". I've not posted a lot about ETH since then whilst I try to figure out what I'm thinking about this whole thing. But there's a lot on my mind that I'd like to discuss (may have been discussed 1000 times already this week so far).

1) Those tactics. Going with the false 9. Fred deepest midfielder and Mctominay advanced. Honestly, what was he thinking? I genuinely believe he has massively underestimated the PL. He's tried to come off as a genius, tried to do what others failed at. In my opinion, you can't play with a false 9 with this squad until we have absolutely mastered the possession side at least. We lost an outlet, a focal point, and were aimless. A false 9 is not a player of Eriksen or Bruno's mould. Next, it was proven a long time ago that Fred cannot play that role. There are actual quotes from players to say that Fred is the trigger to press us, it is common knowledge that this is his weakness. We actually played to his weakness!! He can only function further up the pitch, pressing and linking. That is it. And Mctominay offers nothing further up the pitch. In fact, he's such a liability for defensive positioning and recovery that he's useless at the strongest aspect of his game if he's too far forward.

So, has ETH watched us play in depth? He's supposed to be a man of detail yet missed very glaring issues. Which leads me to my next question, does nobody at the club, Fletcher for example, point all this out to him when discussing tactics? He's been there to witness this with his own eyes.

2) Our shape. On the ball we had 2 CBs with Fred in front of them. Our fullbacks right up the pitch practically marking themselves out of the game. The rest of our players (this probably wasn't noticeable on TV for those not there) were literally in a line across the pitch about 35 yards ahead. When our CBs had the ball they looked up and saw a sea of Brighton players. Nobody ahead dropping back to offer an angle past Fred. No movement. Is this by design? Because I was at there thinking that I can see how this will look like LVG football very quickly, chaining the ball across defence very slowly to find an opening. I thought he's all about possession? Where's the triangles? The numerous passing options? Watch analysis of Peps football and you'll see that City and Barca create diamond shapes around players in possession so they always have plenty of options. Movement to create opening, 3rd man running. We saw none of that and not even an attempt at that. What we actually ended up with was a lot of long balls to nowhere because we had no passing options.

3) the subs. I know this has been discussed but it felt like we killed the game for them from the 80th minute onwards. Just as we had a head of steam. It was clear from early on that Rashford wasn't offering a thing. There was no risk in throwing Garnacho on earlier, for example. Then the fact that he took Sancho off instead. He looked a bit tired, but I would have liked to have seen him on the left instead of Rashford as he has proven to be a goal threat from there.

4) We did better in the second half up to a point. I said at half time that Eriksen needs to play deeper as he's our only hope of progressing play forward. We did that and it worked, though I think more because Brighton closed out the game instead and changed their shape. But, what I saw in the second half was a bit worrying again. No route through the middle but instead trying to whip crosses in. Moyes Vs Fulham anyone? But what was happening a lot was that line of 6 or 7 players up the pitch just wasn't making enough effort to get into the box. In preseason we overloaded the box well. Against Brighton our wide players were having to delay too many times to wait for the runs. Why did this happen? Are we going to become a long ball/crossing team against well organised teams?

5) Shaw coming straight back in. It's been discussed. But what a lazy, reactive player he is. Zero intensity, half asleep on the pitch. Stops to watch his man receive the ball before he realises he needs to close them down. It is time to integrate Malacia.

6) No Iqbal on the bench. I know people will say it was only preseason and he's just a kid, but due to point number 2, we were crying out for a player that can beat the press by carrying the ball. Only because we'd backed ourselves into such a corner with our shape, but surely he would have been a good option in this sense. Not only that but he deserved it. He was better than most of these lot. I seriously hope ETH isn't going to be that manager that puts players unworthy ahead in the pecking order just because of their name or their age. Iqbal should have been on the bench and Savage looked far better than Garner and he's disappeared.

7) Unrelated to the game but another thing that is bothering me. Thinking back to Rangnick being let go and ETH not wanting to talk to him. Plus the stories about demands from ETH to get the job, I'm starting to wonder if ETH wanted full control over transfers. And if he did, this summer brings me nothing but fear if so. Are these his targets? Are we genuinely going to go along with this? Is the FDJ debacle down to him? Honestly he's treating us like we play in Eredivise with some of these names we're being linked with. I'm hoping he's not going to prove to be an arrogant manager that doesn't believe the hype about the PL, only to be eaten alive by it. I've seen it with LVG, another Dutch manager that felt his very particular ideas were the only way to play football.

I wanted to get all this off my chest because I'm desperate for him to be a success and I'm a bit worried right now.

The simple answer is , it was just one match. Credit to Potter as well. They aren't actually your typical long ball team but they did it on Sunday. It was full long diagonal balls. Even ETH said he didn't expect that. I will say this again - it's going to get worse before it gets better. Brentford and Liverpool is going to be shocking displays .

 

[Sweet Square]

I can't feel any positivity whoever is signed because these leeches have totally killed any morale for this club

True but at some point you’ve got believe no matter how unrealistic is it that whoever our manger is, they will perform miracles.

Otherwise your just wasting your own time watching and supporting something that is making you depressed. Which tbh I do think there is a decent amount of United fans who support the club out of pure habit.

 

[Azhar88]

I hope to see big changes for the next game. I'll almost be at the stage of despair already if we see a similar team selected. If he plays youth players then I think more supporters could accept the season isn't going to be smooth, with a view to the bigger picture. I think we will need a good DM to support the young midfielders though, if they were given a chance. I can't see it happening though.

I think the key to this is the contract ETH has signed, which is obviously confidential so we can only guess at it. But I bet if we see a similar team to Sunday vs Brentford (older more experienced players) we can conclude he has the clause. The clause they've all had since Moyes: get us into the CL or else.... So to give himself the best chance of scraping top-4 he will not risk anything, not even dropping Ronaldo from the squad, which should have happened vs Brighton.

But if Man United are serious about a proper re-build including trying out promising younger players e.g. Garner, Savage and Garnacho, I really hope ETH has been given an assurance that even a top-10 finish will not end his time at the club and I hope that is in black and white on his contract. But sadly, I fear not because the people at the top want CL next season (and every season) & they don't care about the longer term and the fact a season out of Europe might help reset things completely.

 

[Melvin Udall]

I can't disagree with this. He might have underestimated the talent deficit in the midfield. The recent movement in the transfer market is in itself an acknowledgment of the mistaken belief that the problem could be patched internally. The thing is, and this can't be said enough, he wasn't leading recruitment at Ajax. Leaving everything to him was going to lead to learning mistakes. We needed to give him a good structure. Then again our current DoF wasn't leading recruitment here either (or anywhere for that matter) so that would still come back to ETH being the most qualified to make those calls. We doomed his first season when we let him come into a barebones setup without experience or a true guiding hand to supplement his.

Right. I don’t blame ETH for making mistakes on the market, as that really should not be his job.

I just wonder what was discussed when he was interviewing/negotiating with the club. Did the club tell him that he would be in charge of identifying targets? Did they pitch him on support from Rangnick?

I can’t say I trusted the club to really get things straightened out under Murtough, but I’m somehow still surprised at how they’ve mismanaged the window.

 

[E-mal]

People don't want to say the truth but he has as much blame as everyone else for insisting we sign FDJ first before other signings go through.
Him and the board dilly dallied and now we are desperate.
At the least he should have brought in another central midfielder like Rabiot that is cheap and few attackers early on before preseason and then go ahead and wait for FDJ. He underestimated the magnitude of the job and overestimated his and United's pull.

 

[Marcus]

I still have hope in ETH. I would give him until end of the year to make an imprint on this team. Play only players who believe in his philosophy and bench those who can't/won't adapt. I think he is an intelligent modern manager who will make a difference to the style we play and winning games. He will be seeing first hand which players can make it or not and if it means playing more of the youth team at the expense of experienced players to make a point, so be it.

 

[Melvin Udall]

People don't want to say the truth but he has as much blame as everyone else for insisting we sign FDJ first before other signings go through.
Him and the board dilly dallied and now we are desperate.
At the least he should have brought in another central midfielder like Rabiot that is cheap and few attackers early on before preseason and then go ahead and wait for FDJ. He underestimated the magnitude of the job and overestimated his and United's pull.

He was wrong, but he shouldn’t even be allowed to make those decisions, at least not yet. The DoF’s role is supposed to ensure that the club keeps moving forward, regardless of who the manager is. How can we follow any sort of plan if we cater to the whims of every manager.

this all should’ve been covered before ETH signed. Murtough should’ve been able to say, “we need to strengthen in these positions, and this is our total budget. We have a list of targets in each area that run from cheap to expensive, and want you to help decide which areas to spend the most on and which areas to look for budget options.”

ETH requesting FDJ is fine, but the club should’ve told him that we can’t spend all our money on him because we need a right back, multiple midfielders, a center back, a rw, and a striker. The club should’ve had ETH prepared for us to pull the plug on pursuing FDJ when either the price was too high, or negotiations went on too long. It seems like both of those have happened.

even if ETH demanded a lot of control on transfers during negotiations, it was foolish of the club to give it to him. They should’ve told him to kick rocks. It all goes back to Murtough and the glazers for letting this happen.

 

[sglowrider]

The simple answer is , it was just one match. Credit to Potter as well. They aren't actually your typical long ball team but they did it on Sunday. It was full long diagonal balls. Even ETH said he didn't expect that. I will say this again - it's going to get worse before it gets better. Brentford and Liverpool is going to be shocking displays .

This.

I think it's the case of underestimating the league and its quality -- and you don't blame him when his team has been dominating the Eredivisie for the time he was there. That has to feck with your self of confidence.

The key like Pep and Klopp when they first came, is whether he can learn from his mistakes and have a steep learning curve. That will be over a period of 18 months and not one match or season.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

Is ETH our Andre Villa Boas?

Comes with a good reputation but can’t quite cut it in England?

I was so positive before the new season started now after that defeat…im still positive he could do a good job (unlike AVB) just a shame we have shit owners and even worse idiots running the footballing side

The planet sized holes in our team are there for all to see all through last year yet we still haven’t addressed them in any significant way.

I can see a season like last year if we don't get the right players in, FDJ might not happen so then promote the youth its probably the only way ETH gets extra leeway.

Promote the youth fk the players who don’t want to come.

….Also don’t buy has-been racist players!

 

[sglowrider]

Is ETH our Andre Villa Boas?

Comes with a good reputation but can’t quite cut it in England?

I was so positive before the new season started now after that defeat…im still positive he could do a good job (unlike AVB) just a shame we have shit owners and even worse idiots running the footballing side

The planet sized holes in our team are there for all to see all through last year yet we still haven’t addressed them in any significant way.

I can see a season like last year if we don't get the right players in, FDJ might not happen so then promote the youth its probably the only way ETH gets extra leeway.

Promote the youth fk the players who don’t want to come.

….Also don’t buy has-been racist players!

I think its about expectations. We all expected Klopp & Pep to kick off the moment they arrived. But even they struggled.

ETH isn't a saviour -- he will need the right amount of support from the management and the fans. But also he needs to do some self-reflection and be open to learning and changing as he goes, like Pep and Klopp.

 

[AmanNits04]

People are already doubting him, after just one match. So much for back your manager

 

[sglowrider]

People are already doubting him, after just one match. So much for back your manager

It ain't a cult where you aren't allowed to discuss any mistakes he may have made.

Discussing mistakes isn't about doubts. Its about mistakes. He will be on a learning curve as will the squad.

Its a mature discussion and not some infantile expectations of ETH being some saviour.

 

[Vapor trail]

People are already doubting him, after just one match. So much for back your manager

Doubt your manager after not winning the league for 9+ years and being inconsistent competitively. I honestly think it's the conditions around the club (owners included) that make the perspective far worse. I think judgements should be reserved until the end of the season.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

I am not the kind who reacts quickly, I always try to be measured and avoid being hyperbole and dramatic.

But in the next game, few players should be dropped, 2 players must not start together no matter what (McFred), 1 must not start no matter what (McTominay).

- McTominay must not start, simple as.
- Shaw, Fred, Bruno & Rashford must be dropped, I'd be happy if Malacia, Garner, DvB & Garnacho replace them.
- I would also like to see Dalot dropped as well, but the other options aren't good enough (AWB is shite and Laird is not ready for PL footy).

These players should expect to be dropped and remain dropped when they perform badly as they did against Brighton, and if they are dropped, and the team wins the next game, then that should mean the same players who started in the winning game should keep their places, as long as they perform to a minimum acceptable level (at least 6/10). I know the game afterwards is vs Liverpool, but I don't care really, these players can't just keep stinking up the place and be selected to start every game, and I am certain this way, they will know that their reputation (which is already in the gutter) would go further down if they are benched by players like Garner or DvB or Malacia.

One thing I'm 100% sure of, despite what I mentioned above, I will get it if Ten Hag starts these players again and gives them another chance (Shaw, Fred, Bruno, Rashford, etc...), but if Ten Hag starts McTominay against The Bees, I will lose respect for him, and I will doubt his coaching & managerial credentials and not trust his ability to be the head coach at United, which means I will be firmly in the Ten Hag Out camp the moment he selects McTominay to start a PL game.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

It ain't a cult where you aren't allowed to discuss any mistakes he may have made.

Discussing mistakes isn't about doubts. Its about mistakes. He will be on a learning curve as will the squad.

Its a mature discussion and not some infantile expectations of ETH being some saviour.

I agree with every thing you said here.

I am very supportive of Ten Hag as a Head Coach, however, I still know that he will need a lot of time to get his playing style functioning in the side.

and it is fair to discuss and talk about mistakes in his selections (starting McTominay for example), or his subs, or his tactics, etc...

 

[frostbite]

Even if he did ask the club to focus on FDJ to make sure we could afford him, they should have said "don't worry, we'll have the money but let's get your other targets whilst we wait". That's what a club serious about getting back to the top would do.

We have spent $60m on Martinez, $18m on Malacia, and it will be around $85m for FdJ. Total near $160m. How much is our budget this summer?

 

[sglowrider]

I agree with every thing you said here.

I am very supportive of Ten Hag as a Head Coach, however, I still know that he will need a lot of time to get his playing style functioning in the side.

and it is fair to discuss and talk about mistakes in his selections (starting McTominay for example), or his subs, or his tactics, etc...

Agree. To me, it's all under the umbrella of 'the learning curve'.

Not sure why people are so binary-minded. That's how you get from he's the greatest since sliced bread to he needs to be sacked within a month.

 

[In Rainbows]

I need to hear from those supporters that were absolutely convinced of ETH, because as much as it genuinely pains me to say it, I am a bit worried.

I was at the game this weekend and left shell shocked. I think my exact words when Brighton scored the second and we looked abysmal were "this cannot be happening". I've not posted a lot about ETH since then whilst I try to figure out what I'm thinking about this whole thing. But there's a lot on my mind that I'd like to discuss (may have been discussed 1000 times already this week so far).

1) Those tactics. Going with the false 9. Fred deepest midfielder and Mctominay advanced. Honestly, what was he thinking? I genuinely believe he has massively underestimated the PL. He's tried to come off as a genius, tried to do what others failed at. In my opinion, you can't play with a false 9 with this squad until we have absolutely mastered the possession side at least. We lost an outlet, a focal point, and were aimless. A false 9 is not a player of Eriksen or Bruno's mould. Next, it was proven a long time ago that Fred cannot play that role. There are actual quotes from players to say that Fred is the trigger to press us, it is common knowledge that this is his weakness. We actually played to his weakness!! He can only function further up the pitch, pressing and linking. That is it. And Mctominay offers nothing further up the pitch. In fact, he's such a liability for defensive positioning and recovery that he's useless at the strongest aspect of his game if he's too far forward.

So, has ETH watched us play in depth? He's supposed to be a man of detail yet missed very glaring issues. Which leads me to my next question, does nobody at the club, Fletcher for example, point all this out to him when discussing tactics? He's been there to witness this with his own eyes.

2) Our shape. On the ball we had 2 CBs with Fred in front of them. Our fullbacks right up the pitch practically marking themselves out of the game. The rest of our players (this probably wasn't noticeable on TV for those not there) were literally in a line across the pitch about 35 yards ahead. When our CBs had the ball they looked up and saw a sea of Brighton players. Nobody ahead dropping back to offer an angle past Fred. No movement. Is this by design? Because I was at there thinking that I can see how this will look like LVG football very quickly, chaining the ball across defence very slowly to find an opening. I thought he's all about possession? Where's the triangles? The numerous passing options? Watch analysis of Peps football and you'll see that City and Barca create diamond shapes around players in possession so they always have plenty of options. Movement to create opening, 3rd man running. We saw none of that and not even an attempt at that. What we actually ended up with was a lot of long balls to nowhere because we had no passing options.

3) the subs. I know this has been discussed but it felt like we killed the game for them from the 80th minute onwards. Just as we had a head of steam. It was clear from early on that Rashford wasn't offering a thing. There was no risk in throwing Garnacho on earlier, for example. Then the fact that he took Sancho off instead. He looked a bit tired, but I would have liked to have seen him on the left instead of Rashford as he has proven to be a goal threat from there.

4) We did better in the second half up to a point. I said at half time that Eriksen needs to play deeper as he's our only hope of progressing play forward. We did that and it worked, though I think more because Brighton closed out the game instead and changed their shape. But, what I saw in the second half was a bit worrying again. No route through the middle but instead trying to whip crosses in. Moyes Vs Fulham anyone? But what was happening a lot was that line of 6 or 7 players up the pitch just wasn't making enough effort to get into the box. In preseason we overloaded the box well. Against Brighton our wide players were having to delay too many times to wait for the runs. Why did this happen? Are we going to become a long ball/crossing team against well organised teams?

5) Shaw coming straight back in. It's been discussed. But what a lazy, reactive player he is. Zero intensity, half asleep on the pitch. Stops to watch his man receive the ball before he realises he needs to close them down. It is time to integrate Malacia.

6) No Iqbal on the bench. I know people will say it was only preseason and he's just a kid, but due to point number 2, we were crying out for a player that can beat the press by carrying the ball. Only because we'd backed ourselves into such a corner with our shape, but surely he would have been a good option in this sense. Not only that but he deserved it. He was better than most of these lot. I seriously hope ETH isn't going to be that manager that puts players unworthy ahead in the pecking order just because of their name or their age. Iqbal should have been on the bench and Savage looked far better than Garner and he's disappeared.

7) Unrelated to the game but another thing that is bothering me. Thinking back to Rangnick being let go and ETH not wanting to talk to him. Plus the stories about demands from ETH to get the job, I'm starting to wonder if ETH wanted full control over transfers. And if he did, this summer brings me nothing but fear if so. Are these his targets? Are we genuinely going to go along with this? Is the FDJ debacle down to him? Honestly he's treating us like we play in Eredivise with some of these names we're being linked with. I'm hoping he's not going to prove to be an arrogant manager that doesn't believe the hype about the PL, only to be eaten alive by it. I've seen it with LVG, another Dutch manager that felt his very particular ideas were the only way to play football.

I wanted to get all this off my chest because I'm desperate for him to be a success and I'm a bit worried right now.

I don't understand some of your worries. The problem didn't come from lack of coaching. It came from mental fortitude.

1. False 9 only occurred due to the Martial injury and a lack of genuine striker options. The choice of going with Fred as the 6 and McTominay as the 8 was not a case of him trying to look like a genius, and it did not come from underestimating the PL. He wants to play a possession based playstyle and he needs the 6 to get the balls from the CBs, and make himself available in vulnerable positions. McTominay does not have that ability. McTominay might be less susceptible to getting dispossessed only because he would likely not carry out the proper instructions of what he wants from his 6 because McTominay knows his limitations and is far less willing to show for the ball or try any difficult (for him) passes. ETH chose Fred because Fred has more technical quality than McTominay. What ETH did not know is just how panicky Fred is under pressure, which is something he largely did not witness as much in preseason.

The match was indeed an eye opener for ETH in multiple ways. He now knows the floor McTominay and Fred are capable of because they largely did not show that in preseason. We as fans have seen this for years so we know all about the qualities they have, nor do we have the confidence a manager has in their ability to mask the awfulness of McFred.

2. I think this is a wait and see. Is his 8 always supposed to be that far up? Or was it just McTominay being more reserved than what ETH wants? We saw a lot of verticality and quick passes during preseason to challenge this. Did the players not trust in themselves to do that? Because as in my opening remark, it was quite clear that many of the players were nervous and did not apply what we had seen in preseason.

3. Definitely a mistake

4. Isn't this just more evidence that the players reverted back to their original ways. That doesn't come from ETH. So I'm not worried about the manager. The comparison to Moyes is a bit out there because of this. Despite the performance, I would not place the blame on ETH's instructions. It just felt like more of an eye opener on the mentality of the players, and their inability to carry out his instructions in actual pressure situations.

5. We'll see, but hopefully this is just ETH letting Shaw hang himself in order to justify Malacia's increased playing time.

 

[Anustart89]

We’ve had issues in sustaining pressure for a number of years now and I don’t think that’ll change until the players are replaced as it strikes me as a mentality issue in the squad. We are able to have five minutes of dominance where the opponents can’t get the ball but one break, they make a couple of subs or fake an injury and we’re unable to get a hold of the game again. I said to my buddy as we were watching United pile on the pressure around the 70 minute mark that United won’t be able to get it back once Brighton break out from it once, and lo and behold we fell apart as soon as they did.

With regards to the game itself, it’s obvious that he had to go with a system he hadn’t played during pre-season (false 9) due to Martial getting injured and him not wanting to play Ronaldo from start. What had been effective during pre-season was martial running in behind whereas Ronaldo has been busy trying to undermine him and the club for the entire pre-season before showing up for 45 minutes and then fecking off home. I agree with the decision to not play him from start even if it might have been to the detriment of the team in this particular game. But looking past the first 90 minutes, if we’re somehow thinking of starting a new era with the manager’s authority being unquestionable, we can’t have a player acting like he’s bigger than the manager in literally the first competitive game. People thinking that he should’ve stuck Ronaldo in there despite his behaviour over the summer have no view of the bigger picture here. If Ronaldo gets away with that, what’s to stop the rest of the players from going back to their old tricks of leaking to the media, downing tools etc? How do you expect him to have control of the dressing room if he lets Ronaldo act like that and then play him from start a week later, with all the Ronaldo fanboys getting on his back for it?

If we’re going to go with EtH and think he’s the man then him being in control is absolutely vital despite what the Ronaldo fanboys think of the result in the first league game. Yeah, us having to play a false nine in the first game wasn’t optimal, but that’s more due to us having no other strikers other than Ronaldo and Martial in the squad having lost Cavani and Greenwood. And don’t give me the Elanga up front shite either, considering we’ve spent the entire pre-season lamenting how poor he’s been and that he’s not good enough yet.

 

[#07]

I can't disagree with this. He might have underestimated the talent deficit in the midfield. The recent movement in the transfer market is in itself an acknowledgment of the mistaken belief that the problem could be patched internally. The thing is, and this can't be said enough, he wasn't leading recruitment at Ajax. Leaving everything to him was going to lead to learning mistakes. We needed to give him a good structure. Then again our current DoF wasn't leading recruitment here either (or anywhere for that matter) so that would still come back to ETH being the most qualified to make those calls. We doomed his first season when we let him come into a barebones setup without experience or a true guiding hand to supplement his.

Agree with all of this.

We hired a head coach but we want him to be a manager. It's bizarre, frankly.

We were warned about the need to have a support system in place for Ten Hag. However, we just did the same thing we have done for the past decade.

Why do we need a Football Director and/or Technical Director if this is how we are going to do things?

This club is run in the most unexplainable way.

 

[sglowrider]

Agree with all of this.

We hired a head coach but we want him to be a manager. It's bizarre, frankly.

We were warned about the need to have a support system in place for Ten Hag. However, we just did the same thing we have done for the past decade.

Why do we need a Football Director and/or Technical Director if this is how we are going to do things?

This club is run in the most unexplainable way.

Tbf. They have given him a long rope when it comes to his transfer targets. And they allowed him to bring on McClaren despite initial hesitation.

We just need to let him play it out the season then look back to see what can be improved next summer.

 

[#07]

Tbf. They have given him a long rope when it comes to his transfer targets. And they allowed him to bring on McClaren despite initial hesitation.

We just need to let him play it out the season then look back to see what can be improved next summer.

But why did they do this?

When they hired him it was widely reported that they had gone for a head coach, cos they wanted someone to fit into the new structure.

Where is the evidence this new structure actually exists besides in puff pieces by the journalists favoured at Man Utd? We are meant to do background checks on every target, yet somehow missed Arnautovic's red flags?

It just comes across as BS.

We should never have given Ten Hag so much rope with regards to transfers. Had he stayed at Ajax, or gone to any other major club, he wouldn't have had that. He's not experienced with it. So why ask him to do it? That's not backing the manager. It's setting him up to fail.

Backing the manager would have been creating a shortlist of targets based on profiles he specified. Not just asking him who he likes. Look at Man City, Pep wanted Kane and Cucurella, didn't get them. That's not cos they don't back Pep. It's because there's a functioning hierarchy there that's able to give him what he needs rather than what he wants.

What's happening is just another example of United not learning from past mistakes. Reminds me so much of LVGs first summer, where we are asking someone who's been a tracksuit manager to suddenly become a recruitment expert. Then people are shocked that the only targets he has are people he's managed or play against.

 

[sglowrider]

But why did they do this?

When they hired him it was widely reported that they had gone for a head coach, cos they wanted someone to fit into the new structure.

Where is the evidence this new structure actually exists besides in puff pieces by the favoured journalists at Man Utd? We are meant to do background checks on every target, yet somehow missed Arnautovic's red flags?

It just comes across as BS.

We should never have given Ten Hag so much rope with regards to transfers. Had he stayed at Ajax, or gone to any other major club, he wouldn't have had that. He's not experienced with it? So why ask him to do it? That's not backing the manager it's setting him up to fail.

Backing the manager would have been creating a shortlist of targets based on profiles he specified. Not just asking him who he likes. Look at Man City, Pep wanted Kane and Cucurella, didn't get them. That's not cos they don't back Pep. It's because there's a functioning hierarchy there that's able to give him what he needs rather than what he wants.

What's happening is just another example of United not learning from past mistakes. Reminds me so much of LVGs first summer, where we are asking someone who's been a tracksuit manager to suddenly become a recruitment expert. Then people are shocked that the only targets he has are people he's managed or play against.

If they didn't they would be accused of not supporting a world class manager.

 

[Longshanks]

I need to hear from those supporters that were absolutely convinced of ETH, because as much as it genuinely pains me to say it, I am a bit worried.

I was at the game this weekend and left shell shocked. I think my exact words when Brighton scored the second and we looked abysmal were "this cannot be happening". I've not posted a lot about ETH since then whilst I try to figure out what I'm thinking about this whole thing. But there's a lot on my mind that I'd like to discuss (may have been discussed 1000 times already this week so far).

1) Those tactics. Going with the false 9. Fred deepest midfielder and Mctominay advanced. Honestly, what was he thinking? I genuinely believe he has massively underestimated the PL. He's tried to come off as a genius, tried to do what others failed at. In my opinion, you can't play with a false 9 with this squad until we have absolutely mastered the possession side at least. We lost an outlet, a focal point, and were aimless. A false 9 is not a player of Eriksen or Bruno's mould. Next, it was proven a long time ago that Fred cannot play that role. There are actual quotes from players to say that Fred is the trigger to press us, it is common knowledge that this is his weakness. We actually played to his weakness!! He can only function further up the pitch, pressing and linking. That is it. And Mctominay offers nothing further up the pitch. In fact, he's such a liability for defensive positioning and recovery that he's useless at the strongest aspect of his game if he's too far forward.

So, has ETH watched us play in depth? He's supposed to be a man of detail yet missed very glaring issues. Which leads me to my next question, does nobody at the club, Fletcher for example, point all this out to him when discussing tactics? He's been there to witness this with his own eyes.

2) Our shape. On the ball we had 2 CBs with Fred in front of them. Our fullbacks right up the pitch practically marking themselves out of the game. The rest of our players (this probably wasn't noticeable on TV for those not there) were literally in a line across the pitch about 35 yards ahead. When our CBs had the ball they looked up and saw a sea of Brighton players. Nobody ahead dropping back to offer an angle past Fred. No movement. Is this by design? Because I was at there thinking that I can see how this will look like LVG football very quickly, chaining the ball across defence very slowly to find an opening. I thought he's all about possession? Where's the triangles? The numerous passing options? Watch analysis of Peps football and you'll see that City and Barca create diamond shapes around players in possession so they always have plenty of options. Movement to create opening, 3rd man running. We saw none of that and not even an attempt at that. What we actually ended up with was a lot of long balls to nowhere because we had no passing options.

3) the subs. I know this has been discussed but it felt like we killed the game for them from the 80th minute onwards. Just as we had a head of steam. It was clear from early on that Rashford wasn't offering a thing. There was no risk in throwing Garnacho on earlier, for example. Then the fact that he took Sancho off instead. He looked a bit tired, but I would have liked to have seen him on the left instead of Rashford as he has proven to be a goal threat from there.

4) We did better in the second half up to a point. I said at half time that Eriksen needs to play deeper as he's our only hope of progressing play forward. We did that and it worked, though I think more because Brighton closed out the game instead and changed their shape. But, what I saw in the second half was a bit worrying again. No route through the middle but instead trying to whip crosses in. Moyes Vs Fulham anyone? But what was happening a lot was that line of 6 or 7 players up the pitch just wasn't making enough effort to get into the box. In preseason we overloaded the box well. Against Brighton our wide players were having to delay too many times to wait for the runs. Why did this happen? Are we going to become a long ball/crossing team against well organised teams?

5) Shaw coming straight back in. It's been discussed. But what a lazy, reactive player he is. Zero intensity, half asleep on the pitch. Stops to watch his man receive the ball before he realises he needs to close them down. It is time to integrate Malacia.

6) No Iqbal on the bench. I know people will say it was only preseason and he's just a kid, but due to point number 2, we were crying out for a player that can beat the press by carrying the ball. Only because we'd backed ourselves into such a corner with our shape, but surely he would have been a good option in this sense. Not only that but he deserved it. He was better than most of these lot. I seriously hope ETH isn't going to be that manager that puts players unworthy ahead in the pecking order just because of their name or their age. Iqbal should have been on the bench and Savage looked far better than Garner and he's disappeared.

7) Unrelated to the game but another thing that is bothering me. Thinking back to Rangnick being let go and ETH not wanting to talk to him. Plus the stories about demands from ETH to get the job, I'm starting to wonder if ETH wanted full control over transfers. And if he did, this summer brings me nothing but fear if so. Are these his targets? Are we genuinely going to go along with this? Is the FDJ debacle down to him? Honestly he's treating us like we play in Eredivise with some of these names we're being linked with. I'm hoping he's not going to prove to be an arrogant manager that doesn't believe the hype about the PL, only to be eaten alive by it. I've seen it with LVG, another Dutch manager that felt his very particular ideas were the only way to play football.

I wanted to get all this off my chest because I'm desperate for him to be a success and I'm a bit worried right now.

I would say slightly knee jerky after one game but I can't help but admit similar thoughts have been running through my mind after Sunday.

Just gonna touch on the Eriksen as a false 9 ploy, he didn't play as a false 9 he basically played as another number 8 alongside bruno and mctom and got in the way and didn't offer us the false 9 focal point. He should of been playing inbetween the lines offering a passing option but he was basically was just another midfielder. That lack of focal point killed us all game.

It is so frustrating when things we know as fans don't work e.g. Fred as a no 6 or De gea's rubbish distribution hampering our build up and then get to watch it all again under a new manager. And you are left wondering did you actually watch any videos of us last season to see where the big issue where or are we gonna have to watch a new manager make the same mistakes as previous managers?

 

[#07]

If they didn't they would be accused of not supporting a world class manager.

Two questions:

1. Would they?
2. Would it matter?

Which other major club operates like this, where the Football Director is just a goafer for the coach? As I just pointed out, City didn't give Pep Kane and Cucurella. Are they being accused of not backing Pep, who everyone agrees is a world class coach?

Even if the club was accused of this, why would it matter if it's the right thing to do? Look at how Luis Campos is revolutionising the playing staff Galtier has to coach. Isn't that a better example of a Football Director and a club backing their head coach than what we are doing?

 

[Drainy]

If ETH started Garnacho and Iqbal, let’s say, he would be able to win over the fans. But what have we got - the same stuff as last year? There is no point

If he did some noisy fans would start calling them shit and overrated academy trash

 

[hellhunter]

This is a bit Captain Hindsight, but it always irked me that people who knew him from previous clubs mentioned he's rather average with transfers but he himself demanded a lot of input and power over signings before joining United.

 

[Bebestation]

This is a bit Captain Hindsight, but it always irked me that people who knew him from previous clubs mentioned he's rather average with transfers but he himself demanded a lot of input and power over signings before joining United.

I got hated for saying that I heard this.

Ajax fans said he was quite crap at transfers.

 

[hellhunter]

I got hated for saying that I heard this.

Ajax fans said he was quite crap at transfers.

People just can't handle your superior intellect

 

[Trigg]

Well that early season optimism didn’t last as long as thought it would…

 

[In Rainbows]

If he did some noisy fans would start calling them shit and overrated academy trash

"I just don't see it with them."

"Bang average"

"Why didn't he stick with the midfield (McFred) from preseason?"

 

[izak]

It's time he mix it up, Either one of Zidane or Savage as to come in for Mctominay, and please put Ronaldo up top.

 

[Xaviboy]

Can't believe we have fans already doubting him or giving out.

We were crying out for a modern coach and modern style of football and we have fans already giving out. Needs time and chance to rebuild. Was left with a average squad from previous managers.


Only thing letting him down so far is going in to the job with a very bad midfield and not addressing it straight away. Chasing FDJ for nearly whole transfer window is starting to not look good. Should of been more ruthless and walked away from deal by now.

Mctominey is not good enough and should only be selected for league cup games at best or sell. Fred isn't good enough to start at DM role.

Erikson is a very good technical player and good on ball for our midfield which is what we need and more of it.

I don't have any coaching badges but we all know once you have or build a solid spine to the team you start to get somewhere. Our midfield is rubbish and I think he relises now it will let him down or won't get anywhere. I'm surprised he didn't relise this before and pre season has fooled him with McFred.

The current midfield will get him sacked if not addressed very soon.