The January window is played down every year regardless
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Yeah or a striker on loan I reckon. Unless Barca get forced into a fire sale when they miss out on CL football and the never ending De Jong saga begins again.
I think if we shift Ronaldo then funds will be available.
A RB if AWB leaves would be the only player I can see unless a top striker/CM we’re tracking is about to join another club and we’re forced to act ala Diaz with Liverpool. We might just recall Laird though.
Newc, Spurs, Chelsea are bigger games and tougher tests for us. I'm not sure ETH will rotate much tonight but I think he should. The team you've written there should be sufficient against Omonoia.
No, I don’t think so. Well, ok, 15 points from 8 games, 6 from 3 in EL, GD of -2 in the league, maybe it’s closer to 7/10 than 6. That’s a point. Quite a few of the results are one goal margin victories, though, while two of the three losses were clear, so that skews it a bit. On the other hand, Arse, Livp, City in 8 gaames says it’s a somewhat tough run of games.
As for quality of play, pragmatic or possesion based, I think we’ve been better than the opponent every game bar Brighton, Brentford, Arsenal and City. Arsenal too, really, as it was close looking at the productivity of chances, but we had more quality in the final pass and finishing. It’s been patchy games, but our good periods have been more and better than our opponents, including all games in the EL. So a 7/10 is fair, I think.
The results are produced by the play and luck, and the play is produced by the players on the pitch. The manager gives the players some of the the means to produce it, through tactical instructions (gameplan), tactical development (learning a style) and motivational assistance (man management). Gameplans are tailored to the opposition and out own team. The first two games showed that the game plans were badly tailored to our own team. This is understandable, as it were the first times Ten Hag saw our players try to use any of his tactics in a real competitive environment. The quality of gameplanning shows in wether he manages to change gameplans successfully from that experience. I think it’s clear he did. The game plans have been generally very good in every game since, bar City, and even there, several things point towards the players panicking so the gameplan wasn’t actually executed. Ten Hag also has a part in this, but’s a minor error severely punished at this stage, rather than a glaring mistake that was doomed to fail, IMO. The development of style is about learning, so it takes time. It’s seen more on a month-to-month basis than game to game, and it’s about reaching tactical goals, rather than results goals or performance goals. I see changes in how we press collectively, how players move to be available, how defense is structured, how we pass to keep the ball more - little by little. The Everton and Omonia games (recent games), we stood higher more successfully and kept the ball better than in the CP and Sheriff games (early games against similar level opponents and with similar gameplans), for instance. I think most people recognize this kin of development. If you don’t see it at all, we may be imagining things and being caught in a frenzy of wishful thinking, but is there also a possibility that we spot things that you haven’t really spotted yet?
Assessing the decisions a manager does is difficult and for the most part guesswork, as we don’t see the trainings, don’t see the game plans, don’t see the managers interactions with the players, don’t know his thoughts about how he sees the long term development. But from what I see, a lot of the apparent decisions make sense to me, regarding gameplans, tactics, squad handling and man management. If this continues, I expect to see changes in controlling games and style of play more clearly by the end of the year, or next year in Octobre.
The only thing I dont like is that he does not start/play more youth players in the EL
Erik is a superchad. Love the guy. Huh
Hardly winning the games with the first team players. The team isnt good enough to experiment with youth players. I think he would bring them on during a comfortable lead but that hasnt been an option yet.
We lost the first game and are desperate to win the group. We have to treat every match as must win.
Think the first game loss, and only 1st place automatically qualifying for next round has stopped this happening.
Did you watch the first game?
Yes, "should" being the operative word, and it's at Old Trafford.
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Does he have that luxury?
Fans nowadays are willing to throw the manager out after a few bad results...I just don't think EtH has the credit in the bank to just play the kids and live with a few bad results. Plus, the media would have a field day ripping him to shreds.
I think for the foreseeable future EtH will just have to play every game like it's a must win and play the strongest team available.
"Should be sufficient" still gets the manager closer to being sacked if the players don't deliver.
I don't think we should contemplate going full strength today, sunday, wednesday, saturday. Not when today is against vastly inferior opposition to Newcastle, Spurs and Chelsea.
Right, but you've dodged the argument a bit here, haven't you? The EL is a competition the club should be competing for, and you think ETH should play the kids. Why do I get the sense you'll be one of the first posters in here proclaiming ETH should be sacked if the kids don't perform?
Your argument being what? That playing a weakened side could push ETH towards being sacked.. Didn't think it needed a response.
Why do we have a squad if we won't rotate and use those players for Omonia at home? Can you specify the circumstances in which you would advocate rotation - or is it never with the squad we have?
I think Ten Hag should go with a blend of rotation and first 11. Some players can physically play more games than others.
I get Resting Rashford, Eriksen and Dalot but likes of Bruno, Martinez, Sancho, Malacia, Lindelof, Casemiro can all play, it also helps with competition for places for the weekends game.
I get Resting Rashford, Eriksen and Dalot but likes of Bruno, Martinez, Sancho, Malacia, Lindelof, Casemiro can all play, it also helps with competition for places for the weekends game.
We have not been even pushing for that extra goal, fairly comforteable with one goal advantage. I do feel like we've been quite pragmatic so far and probably rightly so, but first half vs Everton was also much better football than we've seen in the previous months.
The results have been better than the performances I agree, fully expect to drop points in the coming fixtures but he's been doing good work so far. This attack isn't firing apart from moments of brilliance (apart from when Martial is on the pitch for 27mins, when we actually look quite good), but at least defensively we've been better and midfield finally looks like it knows the job (sometimes the execution is not there, but at least the right ideas are clearly visible).
I'm sure he'll rotate the squad a bit, I'm just pointing out that if you think he should stick the deadweight players and some academy kids out there you're basically admitting you're alright with losing this one.
Yeah I'm actually really worried about the Newcastle game in particular. They're a really good side now under Howe + all their new signings. We need to be in really good form to win that game and can't afford to slip up in games like these if we want top four.
Spurs and Chelsea we have a few days to rest and recover. Given it's still early on in the season I think they'll be fine with 3 day gaps still.
I'd go something like:
DDG
Malacia - Lindelof - Maguire - Shaw
Casemiro - Fred
Elanga -- Ronaldo -- Sancho
Malacia - Lindelof - Maguire - Shaw
Casemiro - Fred
Elanga -- Ronaldo -- Sancho
Rest: Bruno, Eriksen, McT, Antony, Rashford, Dalot at the very least.
Shaw could use more match sharpness, Malacia lost his spot at LB so it's fine for him to play, Casemiro is just getting into the squad, Sancho again lost his place, so he's second choice. Only question mark is Ronaldo.
Enough of this Ole ball in the Prem and trying to play his brand of football in Europe. Commit to changing things and take the lumps.
Hopefully we've used up all of our shit finishing and shit luck and they'll go in for ETH vs Newcastle.
He doesn't have the players nor had the time to commit to his preferred style of play. Man City was a humbling reminder of that. Point is he has us winning games, if he's given time and the personnel he'll completely change how we do it as well.
Needs to start subbing Fernandes. Otherwise not much you can blame him for. He cannot buy himself a whole new team
I don't think he is doing anything differently in Europa vs Premier league. If we were playing Aston villa or Nottingham at home I think it would be similar attack vs defense.
Didn't really benefit from starting such a strong side, needs to take some risks with his selections in games like this.
In couple of moments he looked haggard and worried. Seen that before. Clear out must continue for his own good.
Sixth sense with that McSauce sub.
Sixth sense with that McSauce sub.
His analysis was spot on. Outside of a 10 minute period at the end of the first half where we stopped following the principles, started forcing the ball and as a result gave it away giving them that big opportunity we were very good, kept going and totally dominated the game. An Xg over 4, 33 shots, 80% possession and they had 1 shot on target…poor finishing has masked what a good performance it was.
Absolutely, they basically created nothing outside those minutes where we went mental, absolutely battered them and should of won4/5-0
Yeah, the determination of the BT commentary team to spin it as United making a pig’s ear of a cakewalk made our performance seem a lot less good than it really was. Over the last few years we’ve watched a hell of a lot of under par performances against weak opposition but this was not one of them.
The poor finishing is a bit of a worry though. We need a new striker so so badly. Can’t see us doing much this season without one.
He’s been good so far. People need to relax and come to terms with the fact that we were an awful team last year. That will not change in 3 months. Results have been largely positive, besides the City game (first two don’t count) we’ve looked decent all year. I do think we’re doing some of the stuff he wants us to but I have to be honest I’m not seeing an overall identity with this team, yet; I’m sure we’ll get there. Patience is key.
Even though the opponent is weak, this game shows what type of football we are heading toward. Very very good. Replacing Ronaldo would have us create more clear cut chances and scored more. The players become very comfortable to the system. It’s the final third the issue is. We simply need someone in CF rather than Ronaldo.
I don’t think that’s necessarily true tbh. We’ve looked shit without Ronaldo in the side in the games we’ve lost too. You literally can’t pin all our issues on one guy. Do I think Ronaldo is the ideal striker for this team? Nope. But thats not our biggest problem. We still need a midfielder in the mold of FDJ. We also have players that absolutely bottle it under pressure, case in point the city game where btw Ronaldo didn’t play for a second. But I’m confident we’ll get there soon.
I'm happy with that performance.
Any other day it's a 7-0 victory. I reckon it's only a matter of time till we give out a drubbing to a team, that's 2 games in a row now where the score line should've been a lot higher.
Any other day it's a 7-0 victory. I reckon it's only a matter of time till we give out a drubbing to a team, that's 2 games in a row now where the score line should've been a lot higher.
I thought it was what ETH wants to see.
I don't think he wants to see such wastefulness, and I am sure he wants better decision making from some of our creators and a bit more from Ronaldo. Well, he's probably a bit sick of Ronaldo and dying for a proper striker, but we have to deal with it.
But generally in the way we approached it, horded the ball, recycled possession, won it back early, I think that is what the manager wants in terms of dominating the pitch. The only problem is we're some way off regularly doing that in the league. Omonia are quite poor at playing out, all they really had was lumping it to the best Bruno on the pitch.
I don't think he wants to see such wastefulness, and I am sure he wants better decision making from some of our creators and a bit more from Ronaldo. Well, he's probably a bit sick of Ronaldo and dying for a proper striker, but we have to deal with it.
But generally in the way we approached it, horded the ball, recycled possession, won it back early, I think that is what the manager wants in terms of dominating the pitch. The only problem is we're some way off regularly doing that in the league. Omonia are quite poor at playing out, all they really had was lumping it to the best Bruno on the pitch.
I dont think our forwards have clicked at all. Theres been good individual performances scattered around and I think most of the wide players are playing a bit better each week without being particularly impressive. We need a striker really.
I also support taking lumps but we took 10 against Man city and Brentford. Pretty much only if ETH can manage it without losing his job. When we try to play expansive football against stronger competition we might actually be closer to a relegation side. The contrast is that bad. Just when you're thinking it can't be that bad, the goals just keep pouring like a broken faucet. We aren't built to sustain possession so we just end up running towards our goal all game, but wait it gets worse because we also suck at defending transitions and space so it's never long before we're on the end of a massive score. We've conceded 4 in the first half so many times in the past 12 months and they always come when we go attack, Liverpool last year, brentford and city this year, I believe RR had a few.
We first need to fix the midfield and rebalance the attack. The speed at which ETH dropped his tactics tells us he saw it too. It couldn't have been easy after working really hard in preseason on playing a certain way. The team needs serious work to get to that level.
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Had we put away a couple of early chances I wonder if these stats would show how dominant we were.
Still, we are definitely a much more creative side than we were last season or even the last few years. It does seem the quality of chances is higher but, we just lack that incisiveness that the top teams have.