Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

Should ETH be kept on or fired by INEOS


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I think you're reaching a bit to suggest we control all our games. We didn't control the Leeds games, we didn't control the 2nd half against Palace away, we didn't control against Fulham, we didn't control against Villa. We've regularly had to bring Maguire on for the last 5 minutes to head the ball away as we hang on for dear life for a 1 goal lead. We're already over-performing our xPTS so very generous to think we should be much further ahead than we are.

The underlying stats suggest we're not really much ahead of where we were when we were finishing top 4 finishes under Ole. Our xPTS extrapolated for this season is 67 points, if we carry on over-performing we might get 75 actual.

Ole's main issue was in 3 years he just made barely any progress season upon season and eventually it collapsed. ETH will be expected to get top 4 this season and actually turn us into an elite football team next season. He can't just languish around this current level forever which is what we were doing under Ole before it turned sour, I'm confident ETH will actually make the progress that Ole couldn't. However we shouldn't pretend we're anything more than we are so far this season, we're just look like a top 4 side achieving a normal top 4 points tally, who scrapes a lot of close wins and doesn't score enough goals.

The eye test suggests we're a better organised team than we were under Ole and our games feel less hectic than under Ole, we have to say that. I think we're seem to be a fair way off being a genuinely top side, which is to be expected given it's his first season.
fecking ell, stats clearly don’t tell the full story then do they? Because the eye test clearly tells us we’re already miles ahead of the Ole shit show, and way ahead of schedule.
I’d bet my right ballsack we’ll finish the season with more points than Ole ever managed, and if you think Ole could’ve ever taken a side to Barcelona and feel aggrieved to come away with just a point, you need your head checking.
 

yfoFC

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Fully expecting Arsenal to bounce back from last few results with win over Villa,also wouldn't expect City to get troubled until Newcastle game on Mar 4 but hope I'm totally wrong
That's why I said we need a few results to go our way bruv ;)
 

Adnan

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It shouldn't come as a surprise that when a DoF was given the responsibility to appoint a permanent head coach at the club, he nailed it on the first attempt.

The guy that tore up the scouting lists was John Murtough and not Erik ten Hag. Because it was Murtough who fired Lawlor and Bout. So predictably it was wise to go with ten Hag's choices (with the exception of Casemiro) whilst the likes of Mayorga and Wells took up their new roles, replacing the out-going head scouts. And contrary to what some of you guys believe, a head coach can only carry on leading on recruitment for so long before he fails in the present day. Liverpool is a great example in that regard where Rodgers was undermining the recruitment team and after a brief high, things came crashing down for him and he was sacked. Klopp came in and worked with the existing recruitment team where he knew that for him to succeed, he needed the club's recruitment team to concentrate on recruitment so he himself could concentrate on coaching the team. But before he did that, he took charge of the summer transfer window in 2016, and mostly signed players that were either associated with the German and Austrian bundesliga. The Liverpool recruitment team was then given time to prepare scouting reports for the profile of player Klopp wanted and they succeeded in a big way starting in the summer of 2017. All this was relayed by the Liverpool correspondents.

Any manager/head coach in the present day is asking for trouble if he doesn't make use of the vast resources available to him at the club. Fergie in his time created a small structure that suited him but things have changed now and a head coach cannot coach the team whilst also seeing to the scouting, data, youth, sport science, transfers etc. It's why Guardiola went on record and said if Txiki wasn't at Man City in a DoF role, he wouldn't have joined. Because he doesn't want to be the manager but rather concentrate on being the head coach whilst Txiki takes care of the rest of the duties on the football side of the club.

From what I've read, ten Hag has given the scouts his guidance on how to scout for his methods. And we're on the right track with ten Hag working with the football department and not working with independent/personal scouts like Mourinho and Ole did.
 

Marwood

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Kinda agree with you there. Around late 2020 to early 2021, apart from the CL clusterfeck, we looked very good in the league. If we had invested more in the midfield and a bit more focus in the coaching, Ole might still be around (not sure if that would be good in the long term as he had a low ceiling).
Yeah if Ole had bought a couple of CM's who could pass and a right winger who was ready to start, who knows. Amazed he didn't do this. When you think of the midfielders he played in front of, how did he ever think Fred and McTominay were good enough?

There's a bit of rewriting history with Ole. We're all lauding a draw with a decent Barca(rightly so) but Ole beat a better PSG team with a poorer United XI. He did it twice, one of them a very good performance. A very good record against City, at times outplaying them.

I'm not saying this to defend Ole as such but what happened is a good lesson in how promise can be quickly ruined with a few bad choices.
 

dubplate warrior

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Yeah if Ole had bought a couple of CM's who could pass and a right winger who was ready to start, who knows. Amazed he didn't do this. When you think of the midfielders he played in front of, how did he ever think Fred and McTominay were good enough?

There's a bit of rewriting history with Ole. We're all lauding a draw with a decent Barca(rightly so) but Ole beat a better PSG team with a poorer United XI. He did it twice, one of them a very good performance. A very good record against City, at times outplaying them.


I'm not saying this to defend Ole as such but what happened is a good lesson in how promise can be quickly ruined with a few bad choices.
I take exception to this. We never took the game and dominated to a top team like Barcelona under any of our previous managers like we did on Thursday.
 

stefan92

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He has nothing to prove. Beat the strongest teams in Europe with about10% of their budget.
But only in matches, he didn't win a European title, unlike SAF at Aberdeen. So it's the right call to say that ETH has still more to prove than SAF had when he started at United.
 

Marwood

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I take exception to this. We never took the game and dominated to a top team like Barcelona under any of our previous managers like we did on Thursday.
Well for starters we didn't take the game to them in the first half. Our passing was rubbish first half. We still created a few chances with long balls over the top but it wasn't great. Second half much better but we didn't "dominate" them. 2-2 was a fair result in the end.

But this is what I mean about rewriting history. We absolutely have taken the game to top teams in the past. Better teams than this current Barca as well.

There was a first half against peak City, at the Etihad, where we almost toyed with them. Second game against PSG away?

I really like ETH but folk are getting giddy. The next two transfer windows will decide how his tenure here goes.
 

NLunited

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Well for starters we didn't take the game to them in the first half. Our passing was rubbish first half. We still created a few chances with long balls over the top but it wasn't great. Second half much better but we didn't "dominate" them. 2-2 was a fair result in the end.

But this is what I mean about rewriting history. We absolutely have taken the game to top teams in the past. Better teams than this current Barca as well.

There was a first half against peak City, at the Etihad, where we almost toyed with them. Second game against PSG away?

I really like ETH but folk are getting giddy. The next two transfer windows will decide how his tenure here goes.
We did dominate them in terms of good goal scoring opportunities. Scoreline could easily have been 4-1. Expected goals was about double of theirs. The ‚eye‘ test told me we were far more dangerous.

This performance wasn’t a one off, we have done it against City recently. So after all these years of horror, I take it. Most people here said we didn‘t stand a chance, I said we could win, no reason to fear them.
 

NLunited

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But only in matches, he didn't win a European title, unlike SAF at Aberdeen. So it's the right call to say that ETH has still more to prove than SAF had when he started at United.
Winning a European title with an underdog team requires luck. Ajax was very close. More impressive was how we dispatched topsides like Real Madrid, Juventus, Bayern and Borussia. Did SAF do that with Aberdeen?

No, Ten Hag has nothing to prove.
 

RuudTom83

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As far as the takeover diminishing any future achievements is concern….half the league will be owned by a billionaire the way things are going.

Only Real Madrid and Barcelona fans could complain and that is already happening.
 

GaryLifo

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This guy is on another level to anything we've had since Ferguson. Other team's managers are even praising him and our team these days.
 

nickm

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I feel he is going to get the short end of the stick. A downward spiral of 3-4 losses coupled with draws and you are looking at him gone from the club instead of giving him the time to sort things out. This is how I am sure the club is going to function. Sucks but that's the way it will be. The culture and ethos of the club will be replaced with cut throat competition to be the best. A lot of good people will fall by the wayside. Similar to how Chelsea operated under Roman.
What a bizarre post.
 

NLunited

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As far as the takeover diminishing any future achievements is concern….half the league will be owned by a billionaire the way things are going.

Only Real Madrid and Barcelona fans could complain and that is already happening.
Oil money with strings attached. The strings will be the problem. First of all it is against UEFA rules do there will be an immediate concern that there is corruption ( and there is) if the deal is approved.

Secondly being owned by a corrupt repressive regime is going to hurt us in more than one way. Our reputation will suffer. We may land ourselves in trouble like City, who is threatened with relegation and already was excluded from two years of European Football. Most of their titles may be taken away.

So apart from moral grounds, there are many reasons to question Qatari ownership. My stance is: keep them far, far away.
 

DJ_21

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This guy is on another level to anything we've had since Ferguson. Other team's managers are even praising him and our team these days.
Exactly. You’ve got people praising the work he’s done in such a short time and saying what a good coach he is. Even xavi said we’re one of the best teams in Europe. Probably a bit of an exaggeration but that’s where ETH wants to take us.
 

Marwood

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We did dominate them in terms of good goal scoring opportunities. Scoreline could easily have been 4-1. Expected goals was about double of theirs. The ‚eye‘ test told me we were far more dangerous.

This performance wasn’t a one off, we have done it against City recently. So after all these years of horror, I take it. Most people here said we didn‘t stand a chance, I said we could win, no reason to fear them.
Agree we looked more dangerous but they were worth more than the one goal as well.

We did well against City but we have in the past as well, against a better version of City.

I still think there's plenty to be sorted in that front four before we get carried away, thinking of trophies. We don't score anywhere near enough goals.
 

dubplate warrior

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[/QUOTE]
Well for starters we didn't take the game to them in the first half. Our passing was rubbish first half. We still created a few chances with long balls over the top but it wasn't great. Second half much better but we didn't "dominate" them. 2-2 was a fair result in the end.

But this is what I mean about rewriting history. We absolutely have taken the game to top teams in the past. Better teams than this current Barca as well.

There was a first half against peak City, at the Etihad, where we almost toyed with them. Second game against PSG away?

I really like ETH but folk are getting giddy. The next two transfer windows will decide how his tenure here goes.
We should have scored for or five goals. We also can pass and move properly off the ball. Now we play like an actual football team who can show patterns of play and a discernible gameplan outside of sit deep and counter.

Feels good to have a proper manager and a proper set up. For the last few years we've had a bloke so clearly wing it game by game.
 

next_number_seven

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Exactly. It's the nature of the performances rather than the results which excites me.

The hardest thing in football is progressing the ball with control and creating chances whilst also maintaining defensive stability. We've been doing that consistently against the best sides in Europe.

This is after basically just one transfer window and not much time on the training ground with the volume of games and the World Cup.

I think next season we'll be very competitive.
We have most of our first 11 settled and familiar with his philosophy.
3 quality signings and another full preseason and we're back in business.
 
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Marwood

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We should have scored for or five goals. We also can pass and move properly off the ball. Now we play like an actual football team who can show patterns of play and a discernible gameplan outside of sit deep and counter.

Feels good to have a proper manager and a proper set up. For the last few years we've had a bloke so clearly wing it game by game.
I've seen flashes of it but we struggle to score so the passing and moving can't be that good can it? Alright we haven't got that top number 9 but neither have other teams in the top 9 who have outscored us.

Our main attacking style is still what it has been the last three years. It's still Bruno going long to Rashford. It was against Barcelona. Not too much has changed in that regard.

What has changed is that we're now much more solid. Better defenders and we retain possession better in CM.
 

dubplate warrior

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I've seen flashes of it but we struggle to score so the passing and moving can't be that good can it? Alright we haven't got that top number 9 but neither have other teams in the top 9 who have outscored us.

Our main attacking style is still what it has been the last three years. It's still Bruno going long to Rashford. It was against Barcelona. Not too much has changed in that regard.

What has changed is that we're now much more solid.
He's in February in his first season and has been able to implement elements of our game that we didn't see in three years. Imagine with more time what he does.

Furthermore, we don't need to score a ton of goals to see that our general play is much better and cohesive.
 

2Injurytimegoal

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Results is one thing, the most important is now we play like a proper football team.

Last year we often struggle to have a shot on target in a whole game, our GD is ZERO in season end, we can't string a few pass together with MCT and Fred as our midfield duo.

We conceded goals like a relegation team, 57 Goals, 1.5goals/game!

But still there are people moaning? why so negative.
 

mav_9me

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I've seen flashes of it but we struggle to score so the passing and moving can't be that good can it? Alright we haven't got that top number 9 but neither have other teams in the top 9 who have outscored us.

Our main attacking style is still what it has been the last three years. It's still Bruno going long to Rashford. It was against Barcelona. Not too much has changed in that regard.

What has changed is that we're now much more solid. Better defenders and we retain possession better in CM.
Who? Also we don't just miss a top no. 9, we miss a decent no. 9
 

Marwood

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Who? Also we don't just miss a top no. 9, we miss a decent no. 9
Up until recently we were the lowest scoring of the top 9.

That's improved a bit as things stand but we've still scored less than Brigthton, only four more than Fulham, only two more than Brentford and the worst Liverpool we've seen for about six years. Obviously quite a way off Arsenal. City way ahead but that's to be expected with Haaland.

And ok we haven't got that number 9 but we've still got Rashford. He's fourth top in PL goals.

Our final third attacking play hasn't improved all that much, it might have even regressed from Ole's best period. I know plenty will balk at that sentence because they've convinced themselves about "patterns of play."

Our main go to option is still a long ball from Bruno to Rashford.

I'm confident it will improve but some are talking like we're already there. Instead its going to take at least a very good summer window. Probably longer.
 

Posh Red

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Up until recently we were the lowest scoring of the top 9.

That's improved a bit as things stand but we've still scored less than Brigthton, only four more than Fulham, only two more than Brentford and the worst Liverpool we've seen for about six years. Obviously quite a way off Arsenal. City way ahead but that's to be expected with Haaland.

And ok we haven't got that number 9 but we've still got Rashford. He's fourth top in PL goals.

Our final third attacking play hasn't improved all that much, it might have even regressed from Ole's best period. I know plenty will balk at that sentence because they've convinced themselves about "patterns of play."

Our main go to option is still a long ball from Bruno to Rashford.

I'm confident it will improve but some are talking like we're already there. Instead its going to take at least a very good summer window. Probably longer.
The general attacking play is night and day when compared to the Ole period. I’m not saying United play the best football in the league or anything, but I find that statement absurd.
 

mav_9me

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Up until recently we were the lowest scoring of the top 9.

That's improved a bit as things stand but we've still scored less than Brigthton, only four more than Fulham, only two more than Brentford and the worst Liverpool we've seen for about six years. Obviously quite a way off Arsenal. City way ahead but that's to be expected with Haaland.

And ok we haven't got that number 9 but we've still got Rashford. He's fourth top in PL goals.

Our final third attacking play hasn't improved all that much, it might have even regressed from Ole's best period. I know plenty will balk at that sentence because they've convinced themselves about "patterns of play."

Our main go to option is still a long ball from Bruno to Rashford.

I'm confident it will improve but some are talking like we're already there. Instead its going to take at least a very good summer window. Probably longer.
Evan Ferguson
Mitrovic
Toney
Nunez
Jesus
Haaland/Alvarez

See my point about the no. 9 we lack.

Yes we've compensated with Rashford as our goalscorer but that's credit to ETH and the coaches no?

Where we disagree is the nuance. I think a lot of our goals and chances have come off good attacking 3rd play, even if Rashford is our only real goalscorer and Bruno to Rashford is a chief weapon in our arsenal. There have been so many videos of ETH ball showing goals with multiple passes. Off the top of my head, Sancho against Liverpool, Rashford first goal against Arsenal, Shaw to Rashford against Leeds, Rashford first goal vs Barcelona, Bruno vs Crystal Palace away from Eriksen, Bruno outside of foot cross to Rashford who then passed it across to Fred for tap in against Forest etc etc.
 

Escobar

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He has very high standards and principles. The new owners, whoever it might be, better dont piss him off.
 

florisW

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I wonder how the supporters would react if Man Utd got 2nd and he got replaced by the new owners
 

Marwood

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The general attacking play is night and day when compared to the Ole period. I’m not saying United play the best football in the league or anything, but I find that statement absurd.
I really don't get how it can be classed as night and day when:

A) Our maint attacking strength is as it was under Ole i.e. ball over top to Rashford

B) We're currently struggling for goals. Let's face it, if Rashford gets injured we're buggered. For spells under Ole the goals really flowed. This hasn't happened under ETH yet. Didn't we set a record for scoring 4 in a run of games about two years back?

No way can you call it night and day even if somehow you think we're a better attacking unit now. Which we're not because we score less now.

Evan Ferguson
Mitrovic
Toney
Nunez
Jesus
Haaland/Alvarez

See my point about the no. 9 we lack.

Yes we've compensated with Rashford as our goalscorer but that's credit to ETH and the coaches no?

Where we disagree is the nuance. I think a lot of our goals and chances have come off good attacking 3rd play, even if Rashford is our only real goalscorer and Bruno to Rashford is a chief weapon in our arsenal. There have been so many videos of ETH ball showing goals with multiple passes. Off the top of my head, Sancho against Liverpool, Rashford first goal against Arsenal, Shaw to Rashford against Leeds, Rashford first goal vs Barcelona, Bruno vs Crystal Palace away from Eriksen, Bruno outside of foot cross to Rashford who then passed it across to Fred for tap in against Forest etc etc.
I don't think we can be saying its ok to score similar or less than Brighton/Fulham because they have Evan Ferguson and Mitrovic. That's nuts.

Jesus has been injured for a huge chunk of the season, Nunez has been a flop.

Rashford has outcored all these guys. Which I agree is credit to ETH.

Yeah without a top no.9 we can't be expected to win the league but we could still be scoring more given we have an £85 million player on the right and currently the most dangerous player in the world on the left.

As for decent goals, course we've scored some but are we really saying we didn't score high quality goals under Ole?

I'm not criticising ETH here, just saying what I see. Final third we're still one dimensionsal. Its still all about Bruno and the long ball to Rashford. We're not that creative, the attack doesn't flow, we simply don't score anywhere near enough.

The goals for column doesn't lie.
 
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Leftback99

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The general attacking play is night and day when compared to the Ole period. I’m not saying United play the best football in the league or anything, but I find that statement absurd.
Doesn't really stack up when we've scored just 1 more than last season after 23 games, 11 less than the season before. The improvement defensively on the other hand i would say is night and day.
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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Up until recently we were the lowest scoring of the top 9.

That's improved a bit as things stand but we've still scored less than Brigthton, only four more than Fulham, only two more than Brentford and the worst Liverpool we've seen for about six years. Obviously quite a way off Arsenal. City way ahead but that's to be expected with Haaland.

And ok we haven't got that number 9 but we've still got Rashford. He's fourth top in PL goals.

Our final third attacking play hasn't improved all that much, it might have even regressed from Ole's best period. I know plenty will balk at that sentence because they've convinced themselves about "patterns of play."

Our main go to option is still a long ball from Bruno to Rashford.

I'm confident it will improve but some are talking like we're already there. Instead its going to take at least a very good summer window. Probably longer.
We scored more at Ole's best period because we had a lethal front 3 with Martial and Greenwood both complimenting Rashford, as well as Bruno being better in front of goal than he has been in recent years.
 

bosskeano

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he's got a massive task on his hands until the end of the month with this fixture list and visiting Anfield on March 5th....real test of his ability to prioritize matches/competitions
 

Red the Bear

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His win rate so far is menacingly close to his ajax rate( i think 70 percent to 75) which is insane to think about considering the circumstances, I know football isn't linear but he could potentially build a very very formidable team given the support he deserves.
 
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