Its quite clear we should have said no for Antony at that price. Plus we should have identified that we need different profile player than Mount.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
But Murtough is bossing the window, don't you...
People will laugh at Chelsea for spending £100m each on Enzo and Caicedo but they're world class talents that are set to stay there for 10 years.
I will be shocked if Mount stays longer than 3 with us (as anything more than a bench player) and we actually win anything significant. Him and Antony will prove to be Maguire-level flops.
We're still carrying the Sancho weight. I'm just hoping Hojlund comes through for us.
He's a great manager and will be fine, but he seriously messed up tonight. That happens, what's crucial is what next week looks like.
Yikes.
I'm going to have a bit more patience before I get critical because I can and it's definitely justified.
I'm going to have a bit more patience before I get critical because I can and it's definitely justified.
This is where having an actual DoF instead of a yes man fraud would have helped matters. No way should £140m have been sanctioned for Mount and Antony when so many better cheaper players were available.
Also pining after FDJ all summer instead of moving on to other targets was atrocious, shouldnt have put up with it just because it was what Erik wanted. Casemiro was a good signing for one season but the writing is already on the wall, he's not a long term signing and overall will have set us back if we dont replace him efficiently.
Lavia, Caicedo, Isak, Rice, Enzo, Macallister, Gvardiol, Tonali.... all under the age of 24 and transfered since Erik came to the club. Could have signed one or two of them with a better strategy. Without getting into the dozens and dozens of wingers better than Antony.
How much better a position would the club be if we'd spent big on Enzo/Caicedo/Rice, or a combination of the cheaper ones, rather than spending £120m on Casemiro for 1 or 2 good seasons and Mount to warm the subs bench?
We've recruited badly more times than we have well. Now we're paying the price for it. Yes the manager needs to shoulder a bit of the blame but its a systemic problem with this club. I'd even question the value of getting Mount into this team. I hope I'll be proven wrong.
It was pretty disheartening to see us play without aggression and purpose for the most part. Wolves would feel aggrieved to not have had at least a point. We shouldn't crumble against every team that plays with a low block.
It was pretty disheartening to see us play without aggression and purpose for the most part. Wolves would feel aggrieved to not have had at least a point. We shouldn't crumble against every team that plays with a low block.
It's an absolute disgrace that despite this approach having failed under consecutive managers it's still in full effect under the current regime.
Even if ETH was very successful, player identification and the acquisition process should be overseen by the DOF and recruitment exclusively with some liaison with the manager for integration. It's almost like no one in the hierarchy has learned anything, I was always informed in business to redefine failure as feedback so the club has to take accountability and make changes.
Look at Newcastle's change in approach for recruitment, I've learned today from a posters that it's been spearheaded by Brighton's former DOF. Arsenal have rejuvenated their selection process for players which has been successful with Edu and co. United are still following the same format of letting the manager control every dynamic. It's an outdated model that will not hold together in modern football.
Dont even think it's a problem of aggression there's just no physical strength in the front 6 anywhere.
Front 3 are spineless, Mount and Bruno lightweights and Casemiro spent most of the time making desperate lunges.
No amount of sprints and running can make up for the fact that Mount/Bruno/Rashford/Antony/Garnacho lose almost every 50/50.
Same. It worries me that he seems to think the current system we're trying to play is workable in this league (or in most leagues for that matter).
Perhaps because it’s ONE fecking game into the season and you’re already panicking.
He needs to push for two deals this week,midfield looks a huge priority compared to defence.
People are panicking because we aren't a team
Yep, someone who doesn't get bounced off the ball easily would be a nice start. Wolves easily shrugged off our midfield and were given a free run at the defense.
Reading these comments, you‘d think we are in deep shit and the manager is clueless.
He called it exactly how it is in the post-match conference, but struck a positive tone about the team as well.
We were sloppy on the ball and lost too many duels.
But also: we kept on battling and fpund a way to win.
He called it exactly how it is in the post-match conference, but struck a positive tone about the team as well.
We were sloppy on the ball and lost too many duels.
But also: we kept on battling and fpund a way to win.
I don’t think things are as grim as being made - this was one of the poorest performances under him in terms of general play and it will get better as the season goes on.
At the same time, the control we have over games and our overall quality of possession play needs revitalisation. Whether that’s from a playmaker in midfield which I still think we need or from a RB who is a natural on the ball, is another matter. But with what we have now I’m not sure if we’ll dominate games the way people want and that’s ignoring the goal scoring where we have a lot of young talent rather than established quality
At the same time, the control we have over games and our overall quality of possession play needs revitalisation. Whether that’s from a playmaker in midfield which I still think we need or from a RB who is a natural on the ball, is another matter. But with what we have now I’m not sure if we’ll dominate games the way people want and that’s ignoring the goal scoring where we have a lot of young talent rather than established quality
Didn’t watch the game but watched the 12-min highlights. It seems that we had tried to play high line but Wolf had a great shape, easily broke to counter and did it a few time. The stats is clear that we were completely overrun. What’s going on?!
No higher than usual.
The issue was that Bruno and Mount were pressing too high, meaning the team was frequently caught out in a 4-1-0-5.
Easy friend, it's not 2006 anymore.
Yes, from the highlights, every time they broke from their half, we had Varane, Lica, Shaw at the halfway line. There was a large space between them and the other outfield players. Wolf counter in speed and numbers 3 or 4 even 5 vs 3.
you'd think that United lost the game judging by the posts here
the irony of the car crash of posts after the first match of the season.
It's not the minority that's gone over the top, on every thread most of them are fecking moaning.
It also started literally 5 minutes into the match.
the irony of the car crash of posts after the first match of the season.
It's not the minority that's gone over the top, on every thread most of them are fecking moaning.
When I checked the stats and saw Wolf had 22 shots, I couldn’t believe it. I remember when Ole figured out how to play them, we normally limit them less than 6 shots per game. Since then, we normally dominated play against them. People must be completely shocked today.
the irony of the car crash of posts after the first match of the season.
It's not the minority that's gone over the top, on every thread most of them are fecking moaning.
I have to admit, I am getting somewhat concerned. On one hand Ten Hag does seem to inspire some confidence in the fact he always seems composed and stating what vision he has for the future etc. The team in general is a lot more solid.
The problem I am having is that his signings so far, I can't really say they've been successful. I like Martinez but is that just because I like his attitude?
Antony - I find so frustrating and he cost €95 million.
Eriksen - what moments did he produce last year?
Malacia - One or two good games followed by numerous howlers.
I just want to enjoy watching the team where we play exciting attacking football for the most part. It's been very solid under Ten Hag which is pleasing but has the football been enjoyable?
Is it time to take the signings out of Ten Hags hands. Is he taking on too much work? It might be best he's left to coach the team and leave the signings to the DOF.
On a side note, prepare to have more incidents like the peno that never was, Onana statistically is clearly poor in the air but at least he can pass out from the back eh?
Eridivisie FC
The problem I am having is that his signings so far, I can't really say they've been successful. I like Martinez but is that just because I like his attitude?
Antony - I find so frustrating and he cost €95 million.
Eriksen - what moments did he produce last year?
Malacia - One or two good games followed by numerous howlers.
I just want to enjoy watching the team where we play exciting attacking football for the most part. It's been very solid under Ten Hag which is pleasing but has the football been enjoyable?
Is it time to take the signings out of Ten Hags hands. Is he taking on too much work? It might be best he's left to coach the team and leave the signings to the DOF.
On a side note, prepare to have more incidents like the peno that never was, Onana statistically is clearly poor in the air but at least he can pass out from the back eh?
Eridivisie FC
Some question marks indeed: how can we remain so weak physically, be slow and mentally not up for it, is Mount reall the right profile and why we struggle so much in keeping, controlling the ball and to create chances
Because we have no bully in midfield and that player who can control the tempo either
Yah... I know. I cant even say... going down to the chinkies anymore.
I wasn't confident betting on us yesterday, thankfully. I'm concerned we could be last season's Chelsea/Liverpool. Better the latter I suppose..
They aren't saying anything wrong when that performance was absolutely dire
that’s a good point. I’m no fitness expert but I’m hoping physical strength is something that can be conditioned and improved upon. Otherwise we will struggle to get into the top 4 let alone mount a title challenge.
It is more about the mentality to fight and push, we seem like a bunch of nice guys to play a bit of casual football. Rashy was the prime example, zero fight in him
Remember when we battered Leeds on the opening day of the season and then played that exact same style of football for the rest of the year?
Very poor performance, we have to improve big time.
Playing Rashford as CF, he is making 2 positions weaker.
Playing Rashford as CF, he is making 2 positions weaker.
ETH is a pragmatic manager. He has certain principles but no fixed system he likes to deploy and he adapts his style to the players he has available.
Since he has come in it is clear he has looked at what we have and decided to build a team around Bruno and Rashford. All this talk about being the best transition team is because that's where both these players excel almost exclusively in fact. He has made one captain and given the other a huge contract extension. Both play almost every game. Both of them are very good but have a very low bottom level.
The question we have to ask ourselves and the same one ETH needs to figure out is what is how we get a team that can compete with city that features these two players as their core components.
Forgetting the defensive five for now, I'll separate the discussion into two parts. We need a midfield that gets the best out of Bruno and an attack that gets the best out of rashford.
I think a midfield of Enzo, caicedo and Bruno would be something close to the best you could hope for so we should pursue those profiles of players(yes it won't be easy) What we currently have with Bruno, casemiro and mount/eriksen lacks too much defensively and physically. When Mainoo gets healthy he could help us in this regard too.
As for attack I think we've seen enough of Rashford to realize he is a master at one thing and average to poor at everything else. He is best on the left , getting behind the defense and playing with a cf that can hold the ball up well. Once we get rashford on the left playing with Rasmus up top, I do think.we will see a much more balanced and fluid attack. Will that attack score enough goals remains to be seen. I was glad to see Pellestri get minutes yesterday. If we can get solid end product from that right wing between him, Antony and Amad then we could finally have a potent attack. Sancho looked good yesterday too and could have a role to play.
I think we are still creating understanding and patterns of play between the players. The amount of potential cutbacks missed yesterday was infuriating but I do think the core structure is solid. We had our front three put in absolute dogshit performances and still won and kept a clean sheet. Onwards and upwards we go
Since he has come in it is clear he has looked at what we have and decided to build a team around Bruno and Rashford. All this talk about being the best transition team is because that's where both these players excel almost exclusively in fact. He has made one captain and given the other a huge contract extension. Both play almost every game. Both of them are very good but have a very low bottom level.
The question we have to ask ourselves and the same one ETH needs to figure out is what is how we get a team that can compete with city that features these two players as their core components.
Forgetting the defensive five for now, I'll separate the discussion into two parts. We need a midfield that gets the best out of Bruno and an attack that gets the best out of rashford.
I think a midfield of Enzo, caicedo and Bruno would be something close to the best you could hope for so we should pursue those profiles of players(yes it won't be easy) What we currently have with Bruno, casemiro and mount/eriksen lacks too much defensively and physically. When Mainoo gets healthy he could help us in this regard too.
As for attack I think we've seen enough of Rashford to realize he is a master at one thing and average to poor at everything else. He is best on the left , getting behind the defense and playing with a cf that can hold the ball up well. Once we get rashford on the left playing with Rasmus up top, I do think.we will see a much more balanced and fluid attack. Will that attack score enough goals remains to be seen. I was glad to see Pellestri get minutes yesterday. If we can get solid end product from that right wing between him, Antony and Amad then we could finally have a potent attack. Sancho looked good yesterday too and could have a role to play.
I think we are still creating understanding and patterns of play between the players. The amount of potential cutbacks missed yesterday was infuriating but I do think the core structure is solid. We had our front three put in absolute dogshit performances and still won and kept a clean sheet. Onwards and upwards we go
I just can't fathom Mount signing.
Judging from the nature of our business. It's clear Mount's crucial to ETH's plan but everything is pointing to the other direction. The truth is you could hardly find anyone rate Mount except Chelsea's fans that says something.
Bruno and Mount...are like the worst high profile number 8s you could think of when you want some sort of possession. The worrying aspect of it, is ETH will be too persistent to force this formation.
Judging from the nature of our business. It's clear Mount's crucial to ETH's plan but everything is pointing to the other direction. The truth is you could hardly find anyone rate Mount except Chelsea's fans that says something.
Bruno and Mount...are like the worst high profile number 8s you could think of when you want some sort of possession. The worrying aspect of it, is ETH will be too persistent to force this formation.
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Half of the Cafe could see that coming. We pushed high (especially Bruno and Mount), Wolves were happy to sit tight and wait for a counter, they got quite a few of those and caused us troubles, especially runners through midfield.
Btw this is exactly what happened against Lens first half.
The thing with this setup is you need players who are very good on the ball and a system that helps to keep it. The latter is much bigger issue than the former, so ETH has some work to do.
Btw this is exactly what happened against Lens first half.
The thing with this setup is you need players who are very good on the ball and a system that helps to keep it. The latter is much bigger issue than the former, so ETH has some work to do.
Positive: still won even when playing bad, hopefully it will become a habbit rather than not bothering to score when it isnt our day. Varane did well to score that goal
Negative: Garnacho didnt play well in contrast to pre season, Rashford still hasnt found his form, I still dont see anything good with Mount experiment, Casemiro had to play as a solo midfield... which makes me worried that we dont have Fred anymore when Mount hasnt done anything of note so far
Ten Hag has a specific plan for this team. But he doesnt have the luxury of time anymore, its his 2nd season and hopefully we will start seeing what he wants to implement
Negative: Garnacho didnt play well in contrast to pre season, Rashford still hasnt found his form, I still dont see anything good with Mount experiment, Casemiro had to play as a solo midfield... which makes me worried that we dont have Fred anymore when Mount hasnt done anything of note so far
Ten Hag has a specific plan for this team. But he doesnt have the luxury of time anymore, its his 2nd season and hopefully we will start seeing what he wants to implement
Watching yesterday I’m beginning to subscribe to the idea, that we haven’t improved the starting XI much. Depth is better, but overall we will not dominate more than last year. Onana is an improvement, but on the other hand someone like Casemiro seems to have aged significantly since a year ago.
I know it’s kneejerk but soon there might be an argument to be made that ALL of his signings turn out poor. Let’s see about Hojlund, but we should definitely stop signing blindly his wishes.
I think most people are missing the point and just don't truly know what it takes. What most fans don't understand is that to win the league...you don't just need a good first 11, you need a really top-tier squad. No matter how good your first 11 is, you will find teams like Wolves who are ready for the game and just don't make mistakes at the back, no matter how much you force them. Furthermore, when they have the ball, they have carriers who use it well. Even peak Liverpool and mancity struggled against teams like Wolves who had carriers like adama traore...they minimize your strengths and will hurt you in the space behind because your team is keeping a high line.
The real difference maker is having a deep squad with quality...when you can remove Garnacho and bring Sancho or remove Anthony and bring someone like Amad etc. That's why I don't understand fans who keep saying things like we should send Amad out on loan again (yet we struggled when Anthony got injured last season) or those who say we don't need MG (we may not like him, but we definitely absolutely need him...this is why Ten Hag is okay with bringing him back).
Being able to sub Rashford, Rasmus, and Anthony for something like Garnacho, MG/Martial, or Amad is the stuff that allows us to break teams like wolves....defenders are tired, and you are bringing on top-tier quality and pace. They will eventually give out the goal and once you have it you can easily go 3 or 4 up after that just because you have fresh legs while they don't. Mancity did this with their squad last season... Foden isn't working, bring Mahrez. if Haaland has failed then bring on Alvarez. This is why Ten Hag says we need a deep squad and why we need someone like Amrabat urgently. Amrabat may not replace Casemiro but he will help him and he is another massive option off the bench. We need all the quality we can get because every team we are competing against has top-tier quality waiting to come off the bench. The funny thing is we used to have a top bench under Ferguson...giggs goes off for Nani, Anderson on for Scholes or Carrick...etc
The real difference maker is having a deep squad with quality...when you can remove Garnacho and bring Sancho or remove Anthony and bring someone like Amad etc. That's why I don't understand fans who keep saying things like we should send Amad out on loan again (yet we struggled when Anthony got injured last season) or those who say we don't need MG (we may not like him, but we definitely absolutely need him...this is why Ten Hag is okay with bringing him back).
Being able to sub Rashford, Rasmus, and Anthony for something like Garnacho, MG/Martial, or Amad is the stuff that allows us to break teams like wolves....defenders are tired, and you are bringing on top-tier quality and pace. They will eventually give out the goal and once you have it you can easily go 3 or 4 up after that just because you have fresh legs while they don't. Mancity did this with their squad last season... Foden isn't working, bring Mahrez. if Haaland has failed then bring on Alvarez. This is why Ten Hag says we need a deep squad and why we need someone like Amrabat urgently. Amrabat may not replace Casemiro but he will help him and he is another massive option off the bench. We need all the quality we can get because every team we are competing against has top-tier quality waiting to come off the bench. The funny thing is we used to have a top bench under Ferguson...giggs goes off for Nani, Anderson on for Scholes or Carrick...etc