What did Pep say?
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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Add to that without Martinez and Shaw, we are completely devoid of penetratrive passing and driving forward from defense. And our forward players have continued to be trash. It's a lot of different problems and I don't think he has the courage of his convictions needed to push through. Every game feels like it's going to be a slog just like the Ole days .
We were sold such a dream, man. The baldest of all frauds.On the dutch paper site AD, there are quotes from Ten Hag talking to VIAPLAY saying we will never play like how he played at ajax, that's not why he came here. "The way we played at AJAX, you won't ever see that here." "The player material decides how we play. That's why I can not let this team play the way I did at ajax. I have to, I can't play the same way here. It's also not in the DNA of Manchester United. Ajax football is very specific, here we have to play more direct. We have the type of players for that."
He speaks like at United we do not accept or want Ajax type of football and he is forced to play a different brand... I'm sure many on the caf were dreaming of our team playing like his Ajax team and that it was a big reason many wanted him here for... Is this shit football and his player acquirement strategy just a confused Ten Hag thinking we want hoofball?
I think it's a valid point, he's fighting the tide if he's trying to make the first team play in a way that is not being coached throughout the club. City completely changed everything about their whole club to facilitate Pep, Ten Hag would have had similar at Ajax already in place. We have already seen that our players cannot handle that type of play, and he probably hears every day about 'the Utd way'. I genuinely have no idea how we become a properly successful club again at the moment, we're like a kid building a Lego car without looking at the instructions.
Pep doesnt really care, lets not fall for what he says. Yes the big problem is the owners, but we should at least have a plan on the pitch and look coherent. I dont care if we lose but show some passion and attacking verve. We changed formation several times during the match, why? Anthony and Mount are pathetic signing, as ETH only likes to sign players he knows. We are lost and going backwards. That's all on the manager.
It does seem that way but then at the same time his dealing with Ronaldo, Maguire and Sancho, even Rashford when he turned up late to a meeting suggests he does have the balls to make big, unpopular decisions.
I think it's more of a case of him being on the ropes than lacking courage.
Guardiola was asked what the difference was between the two clubs after Sunday’s convincing derby victory, and his answer was revealing. The Catalan was keen to stress the unity that was behind the scenes at his club, with it being left unsaid that this was not the case at Old Trafford.
Speaking in the post-match press conference, Guardiola explained: "I have said many times we go in the same direction, the chairman, the manager, the CEO... first season unconditional support..." Guardiola then added that "it's not easy" to maintain being respectful due to the difference between the sides.
Again more pathetic excuses. Do Spurs or Villa need a consistent coaching throughout the club for a manager to have an impact and implement a clear style of play. Of course not. So none of our players can play possession football? Really?
That’s… his job?
he’s the head coach. Hears the United way from who? He coaches the team.That quote just solidifies what looked pretty evident to me.
He is spot on. Why should people not listen to him??
I'm 100% behind the manager, but boy he made a mistake by saying those quotes.
Those same levels above him gave us a 3rd place, a cup and a cup final. So what's changed above him? So arent you like scapegoating those above him?
The only thing they are culpable of is hiring ETH, and supporting (or not) him with most of the players that he wanted. If ETH is shit it's only because they hired him.
Both management and ETH are interlocked/intertwined
However, ETH is predominantly responsible for the performance of the team. The levels above him are responsible for putting him in a position to be successful -- which for all intents and purposes they have by getting the 'his' players, more so than any manager post-Fergie.
Exactly. Having a consistent setup throughout the club makes it easier to decide on transfers and to promote youth players (as they are used to a similar setup in the youth teams as in the first team), and that's about it. It helps with transfer business as well, as easier promotion means that you might get away with a youth player instead of a cheap stopgap transfer, but that's about it. It does also help with youth transfers when you can show a clear path into the first team, which in turn can create lots of value in the long run, but it's definitely not required to set a certain style in the first team.
Completely untrue
So would I, but its Manchester United. That’s who we should be aiming for. Give him what he requires
It’s better to leave this thread. Made up minds. The manager got to go, rinse and repeat.
It could be panic but these signs were evident after the league cup win. He has failed to build a cohesive unit. He has failed to build a hard working unit. He has failed to build an attractive footballing side. This group of players isn't even particularly likable bar a few exceptions.
Sancho fecked himself so that's an easy decision I think. 99% of managers do the exact same thing.
Maguire was just a very normal thing of new manager picking a new cb and a new captain but the media and fans have hyped it up
The only tough decision was Ronado and I think its fair to say he needed dressing room support. The same support that he might feel he needs to put his trust in right now.
He doesn't have to go but he will if he doesn't change things wouldn't you agree?
Maybe ETH thinks he is like Pep who can change or create new footballing philosophies out of thin air every new season?
Well, it’s nearly 5 in a row so it seems it’s not that absurd.
Reckon they might be thinking the same thing. New structure, new coaching set up and a couple of winter signings (if it's even done by then) and remove a lot of the negativity around the club.
https://x.com/unitedstandmufc/status/1718922946020843714?s=46&t=-CWsO3kA7ZeCOTYwtcOsQg
You heard it here folks, we will never play the style of play seen at Ajax from the horse’s mouth.
You heard it here folks, we will never play the style of play seen at Ajax from the horse’s mouth.
We came third last season, it's great to wank over every new manager in the league, but lets see how Spurs look in the middle of next season maybe? I think it;s increibly obvious that people like Fernandes and Rashford can't play possession football, yes.
What's his job? The things I've described should be done by the footballing hierarchy of the club, there should be a coherent plan in place that supersedes a manager/head coach, and if we have a traditional way of playing that permeates through the entire club, then we should never hire managers that don't fit that play style. I don't think Ten Hag is doing a great job, but it also appears to me at this point that essentially anyone is set up to fail. The club is in shit.That’s… his job?
That quote just solidifies what looked pretty evident to me.
Basically, ETH has caved in to pressure. Even Arteta stood up through ridicule of 'trust the process' for two seasons before something clicked.
I would love to see the Glazers go before him. Or at least Ineos and Sir Jim in to make the footballing decisions. Hopefully it happens soon. If not we will rinse and repeat.
And yes, he will go if he can’t turn it around. It will be hard to do under these conditions though.
His job is to coach the senior squad to play a good brand of football. Just because we used to play counterattacking 442 football under Sir Alex 20 years ago doesn’t mean Hag isn’t there and isn’t able to coach the senior squad to play a better brand of modern based football. What the U17s are doing right now is irrelevant — his immediate concern is to sort out the starting squad, which he isn’t doing.
What do you suggest? Are owners responsible for the team's performance, and footballing philosophies too?
New owners doesnt guarantee anything -- just look at Chelsea. 3 managers and billion-plus spent in 2 seasons. And Chelsea hasd the infrastructure too -- arguably the most successful club in England in the past 20 years.
I don't think its as straightforward as just changing the top. Its not that obvious.
Bald egos
Doesn't make any sense. All his signings to date suggest that is the style he was aiming to bring to the team.
Something has gone badly wrong, he must have realised that his two main attacking undroppables aren't capable of anything other than counter attacking football.
Yes, and he has tried to do that, with mixed results. The problem comes in this scenario when you have injuries to the level we have had, and you have to use fringe players that have been here for years, youth players etc., and it all falls to shit. How is he supposed to deal with our biggest players being terrible at possession football? This notion of dropping everyone and anyone is nice for posters on a football forum, but real life management doesn't really work like that.
He has clearly realised at some stage that he needs to play the football he can with the players he has in their entirety, who knows if he's right in that decision, but he knows infinitely more about the day to day and footballing situation at the club than anyone on this forum, so I'm not really buying the armchair management from the posters here.
Yesterday definitely seems his worst day as manager of the club. And it wasn't even the result, we've become accustomed to these smashings vs other top clubs, but it seemed clear as day ETH got it so wrong with some of the worst in-game management you could see. It also highlighted several clear other problems.
First being one of signings, and how most his signings have been crap, it's one thing saying the players on the pitch yesterday many were at the club before he arrived and not good enough, but as has been pointed out, you've got his 80m signing sitting on the bench for 87 mins deemed not good enough to play, and the thing is nearly everyone would agree with that assessment that he isn't good enough to play. You've got the 50m midfielder ETH seemed desperate to sign this summer sitting on the bench deemed not good enough to play this or pretty much any game it seems, a signing that was questioned pretty much from the beginning of where does he fit, and so far we do not have the answer to that question.
His interview after the match didn't particularly help matters. It was the type of interview you see from a manager on the verge of the sack, which I've not really bought ETH is, and I still don't think he's on the verge, but the sort of total rubbish and contradictions he was spouting is normally the sort of interview you see at the end of a manager's reign. He's on the one hand arguing we were very good in the first half, but on the other hand arguing we had to change it at HT to something that never looked like it would work before we even saw it, that just makes no sense.
First being one of signings, and how most his signings have been crap, it's one thing saying the players on the pitch yesterday many were at the club before he arrived and not good enough, but as has been pointed out, you've got his 80m signing sitting on the bench for 87 mins deemed not good enough to play, and the thing is nearly everyone would agree with that assessment that he isn't good enough to play. You've got the 50m midfielder ETH seemed desperate to sign this summer sitting on the bench deemed not good enough to play this or pretty much any game it seems, a signing that was questioned pretty much from the beginning of where does he fit, and so far we do not have the answer to that question.
His interview after the match didn't particularly help matters. It was the type of interview you see from a manager on the verge of the sack, which I've not really bought ETH is, and I still don't think he's on the verge, but the sort of total rubbish and contradictions he was spouting is normally the sort of interview you see at the end of a manager's reign. He's on the one hand arguing we were very good in the first half, but on the other hand arguing we had to change it at HT to something that never looked like it would work before we even saw it, that just makes no sense.
Is there a video clip of him actually saying this?
It feels like the end of Ole's time here when we looked absolutely terrible every single game. I just can't see what his plan is and this season has been an absolute shit-show. I don't think he's getting sacked anytime soon, and tbh, I really don't care. The club is a mess from top-to-bottom and whoever comes in under this current structure, is just as likely to fail.
I’m not disagreeing with you and this is a line that is parroted a lot, but what specific changes above EtH will make the situation on the pitch better? And how long do you envisage it taking? Is this just a nebulous way of saying, stop letting ten hag make decisions on signings?
Imagine your looking for a personal chef and you find one that makes some of the best Italian pasta you've ever tried in your life. You hire him because of this but then you ask him to make you a Kebab.
Agreed. It’s as if the hurt of watching yesterday has led to plenty of hysterical revisionism comments from a lot of folk on here.
5 managers in a row all suffering from the same second season syndrome. Deja vu happening time and time again.
this clubs is not set up for sporting success. It has no football structure or hierarchy.
the clubs that we should be competing with absolutely do. We have a concoction of 5 managers players and a history of allowing player power and downing tools to ultimately reset the process.
ten Hag got plenty wrong yesterday but has shown enough to me since he joined that with at least a fully fit squad we can perform to a decent level.
we are not getting close to city or Liverpool who have managers and structures in place For years now. I don’t like it but expecting him to be some miracle worker is far fetched and before anyone brings up spurs or arsenal or any other team currently higher in the league than us it’s October, let’s at least see where they are in March before we get too giddy that they will break the domination of city and Liverpool in this league. They have the best managers, best footballing structure and in city’s case the best squad.
I think so. I have experienced it in several companies over the years. We have seen it at several clubs. If everyone works together and the people are good at doing their jobs, results will come.
It’s not easy thriving when you are not a unit who backs each other and work hard for the same goals.
I know that United and City can’t be talked about in the same manner when it comes to that. They are a tight group with common goals. Blend in great people and respect for each other and you got a winning team from top to bottom.
It is an jnterview to viaplay nederland after the game and available to watch but behind a paywall. It is in dutch.