Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[bosnian_red]

So is this suggesting he is trying to play how his Ajax player? After saying he wasn’t going to do this with us he might now have thought feck it, jobs on the line balls to the wall I’m going for it

It's more saying there were always similar structures in how we have tried to play and how Ajax did. There was definitely some stuff lost in translation with what he meant when he commented on that, but in terms of what our team has consistently done since Ten Hag took over - we've shown consistent and similar tactical issues.

Is it a case of the Premier League has better coaches who have better tactics? Is there more focus on each team and teams put more energy into finding ways to pick you apart faster? Is it better players capable of taking advantage of the gaps you have in your system? Really it's a mix of the 3. Coaches need to adapt constantly in the Prem to make it work. Ten Hag can't play the same way as Ajax, because that wouldn't work here. The opposition is too strong, the opposition would find the gaps, and the opposition would relentless take advantage of those gaps as the player quality is actually capable of taking advantage of it, while they aren't capable of that in the Dutch league. You also don't have the same level of player superiority here as he did in the Dutch league. The Prem has relegation teams spending more than any Italian side for example.

This isn't a case of "he's come here and abandoned his philosophy". This is a case of he's come here, and hasn't been able to adapt his game to the premier league. Teams have worked out his system, and he hasn't adapted to it. He has implemented the rough style of play that he wanted to, it would be a really bad look on him if after 18 months he wasn't capable of coaching us to do what he wants anyway, but the thing that I see is that he has brought in his system. It's just asking far too much of that 1 deep midfielder in build up and leaves us horribly exposed defensively. Basically, it doesn't work in the Prem. It's up to him to adapt it to make it work, and he hasn't done that.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

There is no funds because that same manager wasted it on dross. We've spent pretty much more than any other club during that period, the funds excuse is very thin. Do you really think almost every other manager doesn't face all those exact same issues? Inheriting unbalanced squads who have overseen the sacking of multiple managers. It is absolutely the norm. The only difference is that 99.99% of them do get to spend 400 million.

There is nothing normal about how man United have been running the football side for over a decade. Worse than that is how sh*te United are at negotiating for players. Spending nearly double what a player is worth is not the managers fault.

Woodward started with over paying for fellaini and continued this trend until he left and It’s not changed. A manager doesn’t decide what we spend. When United over spend on a player it’s not the managers fault. I don’t see how anybody can make that leap to be honest, they have nothing to do with negotiations.

So when United spends 400 million , their sh*t ability to negotiate ends up with 200 million worth of talent.

I get some of you want to blame managers for everything that’s gone wrong, but that’s just horseshit

 

[Zlatan 7]

Look at our line up last night. There's a good chance every one of those players would have featured if available, either starting or off the bench.

Same against Liverpool and as well as Maguire and Shaw out, Bruno is suspended. Rashford is back though and he'll probably start, not because he deserves it but basically by default.

A better way to look at it is to name the players currently available for the Liverpool game who would be starters if everyone was fit.

Onana
One of Dalot or AWB
Varane
Garnacho or Antony (you'd expect Rashford to play more often than not)
Hojlund.

So 5, less than half the team. Let's add Mainoo as well because he's a genuine talent and alongside better players should be even better. To counter that, Hojlund has no business starting at United right now. But it's not like we are spoilt for choice is it.

So we have a United side with half the starting line up unavailable and of those that are available, up to 3 are under 20.

Come on man, how is that not a major problem? And this has been the case for large parts of the season. The slight glimmer of hope is that we could see a few of them back in the team soon, Bruno is only out for one game and Casemiro and Martinez are apparently back training.

Yes it is a problem for against Liverpool . Bruno is suspended and hojlund not good enough. But the games previous it’s only Martinez and Casemiro who have been the obvious first eleven players missing. I agree others would be options from the bench but players like Mount, eriksen, martial, were being left out even before the injuries. So as much as you want to keep mentioning 13 players out injured, how many of these 13 would actually make a difference to how ten hag lines up? 2, possibly 3.

 

[Sarni]

No way. We did far worse in 2005-2006 with a far superior manager and a far superior pool of talent than any in this squad. Without an injury crisis to boot.

Not really. We got 6 points in a much tougher group. We did not have a powerhouse like Bayern but all the teams were well above the level of Copenhagen and Galatasaray. We actually performed OK, just could not finish our opponents and ended up with two 0-0 draws against Villarreal and a couple of narrow losses at Benfica and Lille. It was nothing like the chaotic, disorganized performances this year.

And of course no sane person would have sacked Fergie back then even if we lost all the games 7-0.

Also we cannot keep justifying the manager by giving examples of how once upon a time we may have done worse in a similar game/competition. The goal is not to be on par with our worst ever performances.

 

[Zlatan 7]

It's more saying there were always similar structures in how we have tried to play and how Ajax did. There was definitely some stuff lost in translation with what he meant when he commented on that, but in terms of what our team has consistently done since Ten Hag took over - we've shown consistent and similar tactical issues.

Is it a case of the Premier League has better coaches who have better tactics? Is there more focus on each team and teams put more energy into finding ways to pick you apart faster? Is it better players capable of taking advantage of the gaps you have in your system? Really it's a mix of the 3. Coaches need to adapt constantly in the Prem to make it work. Ten Hag can't play the same way as Ajax, because that wouldn't work here. The opposition is too strong, the opposition would find the gaps, and the opposition would relentless take advantage of those gaps as the player quality is actually capable of taking advantage of it, while they aren't capable of that in the Dutch league. You also don't have the same level of player superiority here as he did in the Dutch league. The Prem has relegation teams spending more than any Italian side for example.

This isn't a case of "he's come here and abandoned his philosophy". This is a case of he's come here, and hasn't been able to adapt his game to the premier league. Teams have worked out his system, and he hasn't adapted to it. He has implemented the rough style of play that he wanted to, it would be a really bad look on him if after 18 months he wasn't capable of coaching us to do what he wants anyway, but the thing that I see is that he has brought in his system. It's just asking far too much of that 1 deep midfielder in build up and leaves us horribly exposed defensively. Basically, it doesn't work in the Prem. It's up to him to adapt it to make it work, and he hasn't done that.

That makes for grim reading then. Hopefully with Bruno and Mount out now he’s forced to play 2 dm’s and tighten up the midfield a bit against Liverpool, like what he sees and slowly adapts from there as I can’t see him going anywhere soon

 

[RedRocket9908]

If the Dortmund thing is true I would let him go, it would be best for him and the club.

 

[TsuWave]

No way. We did far worse in 2005-2006 with a far superior manager and a far superior pool of talent than any in this squad. Without an injury crisis to boot.

We actually got 6 points then by the way, not 4. But these false equivalences and comparisons need to stop. That one was considered a catastrophic campaign but it was with a proven manager that had moulded this club into what it is/was, and had won a bunch of trophies and consequently had infinite goodwill. It shouldn't be surprising to anyone why a horrible CL campaign under Ferguson is tolerable.

Ten Hag is a random bloke from the Netherlands.

These things are not remotely the same.

 

[Sarni]

We actually got 6 points then by the way, not 4. But these false equivalences and comparisons need to stop. That one was considered a catastrophic campaign but it was with a proven manager that had moulded this club into what it is/was, and had won a bunch of trophies and consequently had infinite goodwill. It should't be surprising to anyone why a horrible CL campaign under Ferguson is tolerable.

Ten Hag is a random bloke from the Netherlands.

These things are not remotely the same.

Also ‘far worse’ is such a stretch. It’s literally impossible to do ‘far worse’ than we did this year. I would be disappointed with this outcome if it was my Polish team turning them in as you’d expect anyone to do better in a group with Copenhagen and Galatasaray.

 

[MyBloodIsRed]

I'm not sure I can judge ETH when half the squad is injured and has been the whole first half of the year. I mean clearly he can get a tune from a mediocre group (see last season). We stayed pretty injury free and were able to perform well.

This season we needed to bring in players but recruitment was crap. I agree with Scholes... why didn't we go for Kane, Rice and there's even Kim Ming-Jae. Buy those players and keep DDG and we would be miles ahead of where we are now. Fix the top structure first then if he isn't performing time to sack the manager.

 

[Alex99]

It's more saying there were always similar structures in how we have tried to play and how Ajax did. There was definitely some stuff lost in translation with what he meant when he commented on that, but in terms of what our team has consistently done since Ten Hag took over - we've shown consistent and similar tactical issues.

Is it a case of the Premier League has better coaches who have better tactics? Is there more focus on each team and teams put more energy into finding ways to pick you apart faster? Is it better players capable of taking advantage of the gaps you have in your system? Really it's a mix of the 3. Coaches need to adapt constantly in the Prem to make it work. Ten Hag can't play the same way as Ajax, because that wouldn't work here. The opposition is too strong, the opposition would find the gaps, and the opposition would relentless take advantage of those gaps as the player quality is actually capable of taking advantage of it, while they aren't capable of that in the Dutch league. You also don't have the same level of player superiority here as he did in the Dutch league. The Prem has relegation teams spending more than any Italian side for example.

This isn't a case of "he's come here and abandoned his philosophy". This is a case of he's come here, and hasn't been able to adapt his game to the premier league. Teams have worked out his system, and he hasn't adapted to it. He has implemented the rough style of play that he wanted to, it would be a really bad look on him if after 18 months he wasn't capable of coaching us to do what he wants anyway, but the thing that I see is that he has brought in his system. It's just asking far too much of that 1 deep midfielder in build up and leaves us horribly exposed defensively. Basically, it doesn't work in the Prem. It's up to him to adapt it to make it work, and he hasn't done that.

I don't think the "1 deep midfielder" thing is the issue. Other top teams play like that.

I do agree that an issue is, broadly, failing to adapt though (and that might include not sticking to his plans for one deep midfielder, at least with the set of players at his disposal).

Guardiola had to adapt, as did Klopp, and they had far more adept (for the top level) tactical set ups than Ten Hag came in with.

 

[Nicoseth]

He’d do well at Dortmund.

Yeah, you just know wherever he goes next he'll smash it.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

We actually got 6 points then by the way, not 4.

So what? We finished bottom of a weaker group whilst managed by a literal footballing god of a manager with thrice the talent on this roster and no injury crisis. You literally have to be born stupid to pretend that wasn't worse than this campaign and by far the worst UCL campaign in our history since the Champions league started.

I can get being upset with how things have panned out under ETH. I just can't stand re writing history and over exaggerating present disasters.

 

[TsuWave]

So what?

What do you mean "so what?" The post you quoted literally says "4 points out of 6 games in a group with Gala and Copenhagen is incredible and should get you ran out of town" - and your retort was "We did far worse in 2005-2006"

I can get being upset with how things have panned out under ETH. I just can't stand re writing history and over exaggerating present disasters.

4 points out of 6 games in a group with Gala and Copenhagen is incredible and should get you ran out of town. Where is the exaggeration?

You're maneuvering, angling and trying to turn this into a conversation about "which CL campaign was worse" to the point you're wrestling with yourself about points no one has made ("can't stand re writing history" - who has done that? you're the one that brought up Ferguson and 05/06), which is not something I'm interested in.

Again, a horrible CL campaign under Ferguson and a horrible CL campaign under Ten Hag are not the same - and to use your own words - you literally have to be born stupid to pretend they are.

 

[Sarni]

So what? We finished bottom of a weaker group whilst managed by a literal footballing god of a manager with thrice the talent on this roster and no injury crisis. You literally have to be born stupid to pretend that wasn't worse than this campaign and by far the worst UCL campaign in our history since the Champions league started.

I can get being upset with how things have panned out under ETH. I just can't stand re writing history and over exaggerating present disasters.

Every single team in that group was considerably better than Copenhagen and Galatasaray and at least we did not concede 15 goals.

Maybe I was born stupid though.

 

[TsuWave]

Ten Hag hasn’t done nowhere near enough for Manchester United for people to jump in this thread furious and start insulting fellow United fans to defend him.

That’s crazy

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

What do you mean "so what?" The post you quoted literally says "4 points out of 6 games in a group with Gala and Copenhagen is incredible and should get you ran out of town" - and your retort was "We did far worse in 2005-2006" >

Because we did. If you seriously think 6 points and bottom in a group with 2 teams with no UCL experience, and Portuguese champions, with a roster packed with world class talent coached by a living manager legend isn't worse than finishing bottom of a group with a Bayern in it, a humungous injury crisis and a manager who the jury is still out on, and a roster without world class performers, with 4 points. There is literally no point in discussing the topic further.

You're maneuvering, angling and trying to turn this into a conversation about "which CL campaign was worse" .....

Rubbish. I'm literally calling out utter Bullshit. I'm sick and tired of people on here making caricatures of reality.

 

[Revan]

Every single team in that group was considerably better than Copenhagen and Galatasaray and at least we did not concede 15 goals.

Maybe I was born stupid though.

That Villareal team in particular was very good. They were a missed penalty away in the last minute of the match from reaching the final of UCL.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Every single team in that group was considerably better than Copenhagen and Galatasaray and at least we did not concede 15 goals.

......

That UNITED was coached by far better and stacked with talent far better than almost any in this entire group clique ETH just finished bottom in. So that doesnt remotely count as a valid defence. But do contnnue with the mad caricature of reality. Whatever makes y'all sleep better at night

 

[JagUTD]

Ten Hag hasn’t done nowhere near enough for Manchester United for people to jump in this thread furious and start insulting people to defend him.

That’s crazy

Pointing out he's had a few things go against him and it might not be his fault entirely is furious?

And insults? Really? You think it's us cultists insulting people? Between our satanic rituals and involvement in domestic violence and one of you Saints claimed earlier, we have no time for insults.

 

[bosnian_red]

I don't think the "1 deep midfielder" thing is the issue. Other top teams play like that.

I do agree that an issue is, broadly, failing to adapt though (and that might include not sticking to his plans for one deep midfielder, at least with the set of players at his disposal).

Guardiola had to adapt, as did Klopp, and they had far more adept (for the top level) tactical set ups than Ten Hag came in with.

Yeah I agree. There are ways to make 1 deep guy work, I just don't think it works with how spread everyone around that 1 guy is. That 1 guy needs to be an insanely good player to make this system work basically, and at that point some other system probably just handles it better.

I always like to give managers time because theoretically, there is no reason why they can't just adapt and implement a new system, or modified system. It's not like a player who is just not talented enough. It's just ideas and how you coach them. But at a certain amount of time, I basically lose hope that they will adapt it properly (Newcastle was that point for me).

 

[JagUTD]

Rubbish. I'm literally calling out utter Bullshit. I'm sick and tired of people on here making caricatures of reality.

The bullshit isn't called out anywhere near enough on here.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Ten Hag hasn’t done nowhere near enough for Manchester United for people to jump in this thread furious and start insulting fellow United fans to defend him.

That’s crazy

He showed promise though. For 6 months last season he had United in title winning form. Back into the CL and won them their first trophy in years.

I’m not blindly behind him for that, and if he’s sacked tomorrow then ultimately I can’t defend the performances this season. But I also think he’s capable of getting things back on track once we have key players back.

If, come May, United are outside the CL places then I think it’s inevitable that he’s gone

 

[RedRocket9908]

I recon he will be gone as soon as the Shiekh Jassim takeover or SJR buy-in is completed, he may well have been sacked already if it wasnt for those.

 

[Remember the geese]

I recon he will be gone as soon as the Shiekh Jassim takeover or SJR buy-in is completed, he may well have been sacked already if it wasnt for those.

Why even mention Shiekh Jassim?

 

[crossy1686]

Yeah, you just know wherever he goes next he'll smash it.

Because he’ll end up in a slower league where his players can take 2 or 3 touches before they have to pass the ball.

 

[TsuWave]

Because we did. If you seriously think 6 points and bottom in a group with 2 teams with no UCL experience, and Portuguese champions, with a roster packed with world class talent coached by a living manager legend isn't worse than finishing bottom of a group with a Bayern in it, a humungous injury crisis and a manager who the jury is still out on, and a roster without world class performers, with 4 points. There is literally no point in discussing the topic further.

Why are you having a circular conversation with yourself? Do you do this regularly? Who was talking about which CL campaign is worse between 05/06 and this? No one was. You created a scarecrow and started fighting against it all by yourself - and now you seemingly frustrated yourself in that process.

My statement was "4 point out of 6 games in a group with Gala and Copehangen is incredible and should get you ran out of town". Again, you came out of nowhere talking about Ferguson in 05/06.

You seemingly have the capacity to contextualise things - so surely you know why a horrible CL campaign under Ferguson wouldn't get him ran out of town - and why a horrible CL campaign under a random Manager should after the outlay spent here, no?

Rubbish. I'm literally calling out utter Bullshit. I'm sick and tired of people on here making caricatures of reality.

Please, no more angling and manoeuvring. No more fighting with yourself about points no one has made. No more attempts at trying to alleviate how bad this CL campaign by arbitrarily comparing to Ferguson in 05/06 as if they hold the same weight and have the same goodwill.

You can reserve the right to be content with this CL campaign. To me, it is simple - 4 points out of 6 games in a group with Gala and Copenhagen is incredible and should get you ran out of town

 

[RedRocket9908]

Why even mention Shiekh Jassim?

Why not?

 

[TsuWave]

He showed promise though. For 6 months last season he had United in title winning form. Back into the CL and won them their first trophy in years.

I’m not blindly behind him for that, and if he’s sacked tomorrow then ultimately I can’t defend the performances this season. But I also think he’s capable of getting things back on track once we have key players back.

If, come May, United are outside the CL places then I think it’s inevitable that he’s gone

I don't really hold it against people wanting this to work - at one point I did too. Ultimately, for me, it hasn't panned out and I see too many limitations/shortcomings with him, so I'm hoping we part ways. I believe posters Fortitude and Eddy_Jukez made some good posts articulating said limitations/shortcomings.

IMO we were poor for substantial parts even of last season - especially so after the league cup - though we also had some games in which it seemed like something was coming together. Whichever promise people believe he's shown though, I think some of the attitudes people are taking towards fellow United users are bizarre - and he hasn't done nowhere near enough here for those attitudes to be explainable, let alone justified in his defense.

 

[Shakesy]

I'm here for the caricatures of reality

 

[Remember the geese]

Why not?

Because it isn't a possibility.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Because it isn't a possibility.

Its as much a possibility as Sir Jim at this point

 

[Remember the geese]

Its as much a possibility as Sir Jim at this point

It most certainly isn't. The deal with Sir Jim is done.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Because we did. If you seriously think 6 points and bottom in a group with 2 teams with no UCL experience, and Portuguese champions, with a roster packed with world class talent coached by a living manager legend isn't worse than finishing bottom of a group with a Bayern in it, a humungous injury crisis and a manager who the jury is still out on, and a roster without world class performers, with 4 points. There is literally no point in discussing the topic further.


Rubbish. I'm literally calling out utter Bullshit. I'm sick and tired of people on here making caricatures of reality.

you are the one who brought up a season almost 20 years ago to compare with this one

 

[RedRocket9908]

It most certainly isn't. The deal with Sir Jim is done.

Its not though, there would be an announcement if it was

 

[Ted Lasso]

How does this season look if we kept Ronaldo and De Gea? I generally give ETH time and patience blaming the players but these two decisions do land squarely on him.

Onana has made as many critical mistakes in one half a season as I recall from DDG in maybe 3 or 4 years.

 

[RuudTom83]

You have to remember EtH wasn't satisfied with last seasons Eriksen/Casemiro/Bruno trio...I bet he would do anything to have those 3 back playing every week.

 

[King7Eric]

I think that game was a freak result and hopefully history won’t repeat itself.

The fact that we have to say hopefully a 7-0 doesn't repeat itself, says it all about our current state.

 

[Chicharo]

What else do you expect him to say, it's been widely communicated that we are trying to ship out some players who aren't justifying their wages and want to revamp the squad. We haven't had clarity regarding the Ineos deal and outcome from it, if and who will change in the club's hierarchy, and we don't know how much we can afford to spend shortly if all - on top of all that, he needs to make sure he keeps the players as on high spirits as possible and try to adjust the team to get out results.

On top of it all, you have the media and everyone and a cat is saying that he is awful and can't do shit. And all the players are rubbish.

Tell me, what he should come out to the media and say about that scenario?

I understand his reluctance to stir up controversy and criticize the players, but in such a scenario, I expect some signs of improvement. Nevertheless, with the identical players, unaltered tactics, and a notably unusual selection, the team plays the same, ETH follows the same playing style, and ultimately, he delivers identical statements.

 

[InspiRED]

They can't have been serious surely? Anyone with more than 2 brain cells can see the trend with Rashford.

Think they were serious, so i guess we have to make a logical deduction regarding brain cell count.

 

[Dec9003]

No he isn’t

Yes he is.