Probably going to 2 FC cup finals in 2 seasons
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Can someone shine a light why Antony went LB for that 15 minutes? Was it before or after Rashford equalised? Did Ten Hag loosen the suicide 4 winger approach?
I don't know why but it looked like Klopp got Voodoo-ed and LFC just static to the United approach and setup in ET. After the 2-3 they retreated and appeared not to know who to cover and how to press.
I don't know why but it looked like Klopp got Voodoo-ed and LFC just static to the United approach and setup in ET. After the 2-3 they retreated and appeared not to know who to cover and how to press.
The biggest difference between EtH and the other post Fergie managers (maybe outside of LVG) is that he still has the players playing for him. Mou and OGS lost the players. EtH still has the players giving their all most games.
I might be in the minority but I would love to see Amad replace Bruno and have a front 4 of Hojlund - Rashford - Amad - Garnacho
I might be in the minority but I would love to see Amad replace Bruno and have a front 4 of Hojlund - Rashford - Amad - Garnacho
He brought Mount on for Lindelof, presumably to give even more attacking power as we were 2-3 behind, and moved Antony back to maintain some semblance of shape (but a far more attacking LB obviously than Lindelof).
Insane take
I’ve read many a stupid thing in the football forums but seriously? Brentford this season more dramatic?
You’ve just come off the first train from WUM City.
I assume Ten Hag moved Antony to lb to have speed in the back line so that we could press up high. Maguire was allowed to get forward to knock balls down in the box.
I‘d have to rewatch the game to see exactly what happened when. We put maximum pressure on Pool.
I love the colours. I think we have not played well in all the games we won since Cmas, but definitely deserved the wins.
If you think we are consistently lucky, you don‘t understand how luck works.
Was just taking a jab
Irrespective of one’s position, there’s always someone around to tell you the opposite is true.
The brief hiatus from the sniping seems to have abated now though, was enjoyable while it lasted!
They really didn't though. "Players downed tools" has always been a coping mechanism on the Caf. The only managers the players ever actually gave up on were Moyes toward the end of his tenure and Rangnick (players were already checked out for the season once he came in as interim).
Welcome to the forums!
Was going to say exactly this.
Never understood why so many people say this, about Mourinho in particular - easy to forget we came back from 2-0 down to save a game literally a week before he was sacked. Not too long before that we came back to beat Bournemouth in the last minute, and again from 2-0 down to beat Newcastle.
And the funniest part is, the players at the heart of these comebacks are the ones people on here scream loudest about "downing tools" and "throwing managers under the bus" and all that - Pogba, Rashford, and especially Martial, who was playing out of his skin while we were flailing at the end of Mourinho's spell.
Even under Ole, we responded to the Liverpool 5-0 by smashing Spurs and pulling off yet another 90th-minute CL comeback against Atalanta (we'd already done the 0-2 to 3-2 comeback routine in the return fixture a few weeks before) in the same week. These aren't things that happen when players down tools, it's just lazy narratives.
With all the previous managers I'd given up hope and was happy with them getting the sack. And LVG was someone I wanted us to appoint and even with him I felt he deserved the sack, eventhough he was a personal favourite of mine. But right now things may not look as rosey as some fans had envisaged, but it's the first time since Fergie retired where I honestly believe we're close to completing the system of play. And that system of play is one where we build play from the back, press high as a collective unit and have the players at the back and in midfield who have the attributes to control large space in defensive transition.
This for me is a process which requires 3 players to complete the system as far as the first 11 is concerned. We can sack him but the equation would still be the same with someone like Graham Potter who will also have to sign the same players that fit the criteria above. There has to be a reason for me to be patient with a head coach, and it's pretty clear to me that we just don't have the players who can handle transitions in a higher defensive line along with missing one player in midfield who has the technical and athletic ability to raise the level of our midfield along with Kobbie Mainoo.
Klopp had a better midfield 3 at his disposal yesterday from a technical perspective and had two CBs who are absolutely comfortable defending higher up the pitch. And those are the two big differences between the teams right now and we have the opportunity in the summer transfer window to potentially eradicate those key differences imo. Our forwards have goals in them but unlike at Liverpool or Arsenal, their players at the back and in midfield provide a much stronger foundation for their forwards to thrive both in possession and out of possession via applying the press because the guys behind them are comfortable at stepping up and closing off the space infront of them to maintain compactness. Our players at the back can't do this and it creates all sorts of issues with people then claiming we don't have a midfield, when in reality our CBs are refusing to push up, which is understandable with certain players because it would then expose them in 1v1 situations high up the pitch.
Does ten Hag and the players know that the back-line isn't stepping up to fill in the vacated space? Yes, we now have clear evidence from the game yesterday that ten Hag was seen telling the last line to push up but they kept back pedalling. I don't blame Lindelof in that regard because he's not really that type of CB, and if one player in the last line doesn't want to push up, it compromises the other players who will likely be confused as they don't know if they should stay or go, which then benefits the opponent who has players in the big gaping hole in the middle. Our front guys and advanced midfielders have done their job but have been let down by the last line who have not moved up. Below is evidence from The Athletic podcast about ten Hag gesturing to the backline to move up and Diogo Dalot/ten Hag in the clip/interview below also acknowledging that the spacing between the lines is a problem.
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But this problem didn't just come about now, it's been like that since Solskjaer was manager and when he bought Maguire and sold Smalling to create a backline involving Maguire, Lindelof and De Gea as the GK, he made a massive mistake at a time when the EPL was becoming more tactical and even more transition based with many teams looking for players with pace and power along with the technical requirements on the ball. So to make up the disadvantage athletically, he went with a midfield two of McFred to protect his backline, which did help with getting 2nd and 3rd, but it was never sustainable and the system was flawed due to the personnel he bought.
There was only 4 starters in the game yesterday that were part of the new regime. Onana was a ten Hag signing with Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund all being John Murtough signings via the scouts he brought to the club since 2013, or scouts that he replaced Bout and Lawlor with who identified Hojlund. I'm not saying some of the existing players are not good enough because I do believe there's a few who are very good and will contribute going forward for us. But ten Hag is still having to utilise a lot of players that were bought by previous managers and it's not always easy to shift them if they don't want to leave.
But when you inherit a team which has no long-term central striker, no long-term GK for what is required in the game today, not one CB you want to build the team with going forward and a midfield of Fred and McTominay with Matic being past his best and Pogba leaving on a free. Then you can't just focus everything on the midfield in the first two years because signing a striker, GK, CBs, along with creating a midfield composition will take time. We need a couple of midfielders and a couple of CBs imo, and I believe those positions are absolutely in the cross hairs unlike like last season where the GK and striker positions became a priority.
When Real Madrid, Bayern or even Barcelona in the past sacked their managers, it was after providing them with all the tools necessary to succeed as far the playing personnel is concerned. So when Ancelotti or LVG was sacked from Bayern, you can't really say it was unjust with the players they had. But in the EPL the league is as strong as I've ever seen it, and I believe giving ten Hag the time and the players that are currently missing in the team via the transfer window would be sensible, and when he has those players then I believe you can pass your judgement imo because then he will have a complete squad as far as wanting to play the system he wants to implement.
I agree it's overused sometimes but come on, there have been some serious strops from our players over the years, from Pogba's alleged "he fecked with the wrong 'baller" comment aimed at Jose when he was sacked to Shaw's "I knew i'd outlast Mourinho" to certain players calling Ralf's staff Ted Lasso, i don't see how anyone can say that some players have given 100% to those managers with stuff like that happening. That is really what is meant by downing tools.
If it happens with one manager like Jose who has always been a bit of an arsehole, then maybe there's an element of understanding but even with different players, the player culture has been pretty horrendous since Sir Alex left. I believe Rooney alluded to it recently that he saw those changes. Matic was also pretty critical of it recently too if i remember correctly.
As always a pleasure to hear your thoughts. 100% agreed.
I think we just need to suck it up this season and see what those players do to the overall tactical implementation. I suspect, as you do, that it will go a long way to resolving the missing pieces of the puzzle.
But isn't player shenanigans also a product of ill advised scouting and buying? You could see the Pogba problems coming from 10 miles away. Ronaldo part 2 as well, his ego the size of a small country. What mistake that was for team morale. Then there is Sancho. You need a manager who can deal with this. It's why I don't see Tuchel (too much pepper) or Potter (too little) as viable options.
I do believe Ten Hag in this, for this group and when he came in, is the best mix of tough love but never let them down publicly. And it kind of shows on the pitch, for instance how Maguire kept his head up when Bruno was made captain. (Even if I think that choice was and is a bad one, but you can't keep your captain on the bench either.)
Excellent analysis as always Adnan. Fully agreed.
I hope INEOS will remain calm. Ten Hag will need to show some more results though. 47 pts with 39 goals for is still immensely low.
I don't think INEOS will be like Newcastle or Chelsea and give more time. Good thing is that the options aren't exactly there. I do not see Potter or Tuchel for above mentioned reasons. And Bayern, LFC and Barca also need new big name coaches. INEOS did mention the lack of structure but for Ten Hag to get past this summer the next games need to produce points, even if 9 wins out of 12 and yesterday's win probably has put the scale right in the balance or slightly in favor for Ten Hag. 60+ points will do it, regardless of position I reckon. If he does manage to beat either Villa or Spurs, or both then I can see him stay for sure. Lets hope for a great run in the next few weeks.
This is all well and good but where it falls apart is the manager seemingly doesn’t identify this when he signs players. I don’t think Martinez for all his quality is suited to playing high up the pitch. He’s spent 150 million on Mason Mount and Anthony when you’ve rightfully pointed out the kind of players we need. Like I said it’s all well and good saying the manager is on the touchline wanting this and that and needs so many more ingredients but when he was given the biggest budget in the league he signed mostly rubbish. It’s the equivalent of giving someone a load of money to renovate their home that has a broken sink and toilet and instead of buying a new sink and toilet they buy a new sofa and 60 inch hd tv and then spend the day pouring buckets of water down the toilet just to flush it.
I thought a few weeks ago that the general feeling was , sort out the club sporting structure before we change manager, as any new manager will just come into the same Glazer mess.
Sort out the structure, see how ETH does, then decide.
What happened to that plan?
Sort out the structure, see how ETH does, then decide.
What happened to that plan?
If you read my post above it's mostly about the system of play and your post is unrelated to the system of play, and both Mount and Antony don't impair that system and neither does Martinez who has done well in a higher defensive line at Ajax in the UCL. It's not only about controlling spaces out of possession, but also about evading and resisting the press with the ball, while having the ability to thread the lines in a higher defensive line. We didn't have any CBs who were of a high standard when it came to ability on the ball against the press until we signed Martinez. I don't just want athletes but rather I want to see athletes who can play football in defence with technical ability being the most important attribute along with the mindset followed by physical and athletic qualities.
Antony was a player that we tried to sign in June 2022, and walked away from a deal at around £40m only for the Glazers to panic and sign the player after back to back defeats to Brighton and Brentford. The budget allocated to the football department per reports was £120m for that summer and the Glazers panicked in the last few weeks and dipped into the revolving credit facility to sign the player with both Cliff Baty and Michael Stewart involved in the deal. This was reported by a journalist close to Sao Paulo fc who is said to be very reliable. And it was later reported by The Athletic about the Glazers releasing funds near the end of the window to sign Antony. Funds that magically appeared after two back to back losses. I can give you the references from both sources.
Signing Antony for the RW hasn't been a good signing for the price paid but I'm not going to blame ten Hag for the problems the Glazers have created. Like I'm not going to blame Arteta for mistakes made in signing Pepe or the numerous mistakes Txiki Begiristain has made at Man City with the amount of money he wasted in his first 4 seasons at the club which was absorbed by their nation state owner's. I can list the duds he's wasted money on.
Our attack is not the problem and you're forgetting that we have also pushed Garnacho into the first team who ten Hag has developed and he was bought for peanuts by John Murtough as a 16 year old. And moving Fred on and replacing him with Mount was the correct move but what you and others are likely upset about is that with Maguire and Mctominay refusing to leave we missed out on Kim Min Jae and Todibo as replacements for Maguire and Amadou Onana to replace Mctominay. The aforementioned players were said to be the targets in the previous summer window and those moves were dependent on certain players moving on. And with players refusing to leave, we have to be patient because I think those players will now be bought to the club along with maybe one or two more. And they fit the profile of player that I'm talking about both in the back line and in midfield.
People with the last match bias.Again I said about pure drama. Not against big club, occasion etc.
Same as Rooney overhead kick against City, and Garnacho overhead kick against Everton. Garnacho was better goal but Rooney goal was more 'big' because of City and being derby.
Against Brentford Scott scored in 93rd minute and 97th minute. In the same sentence as against Bayern in 1999. Losing the game in injury time then winning the game in the same added time.
To say the last game is the most dramatic game we've had in the last 20 years is absolutely wrong.
In the top 10 games, correct, but to say since 2004 beating Liverpool in FA Cup QF in 2024 is the most dramatic game we had is laughable.
This game is in the same sentence as 2019 in Paris against PSG. Winning a game where we are underdogs, young players, last minute goal. Then ultimately not winning the trophy.
This is one of the reasons why I would give Ten Hag an extra year. Equip him with the tools he needs for the best possible outcome and allow him a year to work with those.
If it doesn't work, or he doesn't know how to get the best out of them, bye-bye.
We should not be without a regular striker or recognised left back for good part of the season. Give the man the tools he needs before you properly judge him. Patience.
No my post isn’t unrelated to system
Of play at all . I understood Your post as indicating that the manager had been dealt a bad hand and has been forced into playing certain players not suitable for said system? Right?
My point was purely that the manager was given a large budget and didn’t really use it to sign players that would negate those said systematic problems from existing.
Not necessarily that Mount and Antony are bad for that system (I mean Antony is terrible in whatever system) but it was more that with so much money he didn’t identify and sign more athletically and physically imposing players to play that system you speak of. You Look at the players city, Liverpool and Arsenal have in those areas (CD and DM). You can speak about who we were linked with and this and that. Bottom line is we didn’t sign em, we signed Antony, Mount etc.
I like Martinez a lot but I genuinely dont think he can operate in a really high line and defend at the level of players like Van Dijk, Saliba, Gabriel etc in a back two. He doesn’t have the physicality and he doesn’t have the recovery pace. The physicality is too huge an issue and whilst it’s not a problem when he has the ball (where he is fantastic and press resistant) off the ball, defending one on ones, winning headers in aerial counters, having to take big strides to get back. He simply does not have the physical build to do it and that’s not his fault. You can argue it all day long it’s simple physics. He simply isn’t built for it. I think it only works if he’s alongside two powerhouses and playing an inverted full back role as per Ake, Zinchenko.
I was getting Dejavu…
I just recalled we had a similar discussion in the summer that centred around prioritising signings and specifically me not believing Onana was a priority signing and that we should have focused on our midfield and this is your response
It’s quite a turn now that you’re saying we actually do need a couple of midfielders. You’ve probably clocked by now that Hannibal and Amrabat are fecking shite. Also interesting that Onana hasn’t had the major impact on our play as you also stated. We still struggle to deal with the press because as I said in the summer your defenders and defensive midfield players will still see the most ball possession. Our midfield is still chasing shadows.
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Post reads like someone disconnected from the reality of what games against Liverpool mean, which is ok but you probably should learn the difference. Then throw in just how up and down the game was, the drama of unpredictability, stretched over 120 minutes. It's a bizarre hill to die on, and its no wonder you're alone on it.
Again I said about pure drama. Not against big club, occasion etc.
Same as Rooney overhead kick against City, and Garnacho overhead kick against Everton. Garnacho was better goal but Rooney goal was more 'big' because of City and being derby.
Against Brentford Scott scored in 93rd minute and 97th minute. In the same sentence as against Bayern in 1999. Losing the game in injury time then winning the game in the same added time.
To say the last game is the most dramatic game we've had in the last 20 years is absolutely wrong.
In the top 10 games, correct, but to say since 2004 beating Liverpool in FA Cup QF in 2024 is the most dramatic game we had is laughable.
This game is in the same sentence as 2019 in Paris against PSG. Winning a game where we are underdogs, young players, last minute goal. Then ultimately not winning the trophy.
You can argue about Mount and Antony but for me the bottom line is that our attack isn't a big issue. Because as much as I might critique Rashford or Bruno, they do have certain qualities that would be enhanced with more technical, physical and technical quality behind them. Factor in the emerging Garnacho and Hojlund who are developing nicely with someone like Mason Mount who is a champions league winning player wanted by both Arteta and Klopp for a proactive attacking system of play, and the problem isn't as big as you seem to think.
And the problems in the deeper areas of the pitch may be clouding your judgment on the ability of certain players. If your backline isn't closing off the space effectively to back up the forwards, then the forwards will be doing alot more chasing the ball rather than making the opponent chase the ball.
Martinez doesn't have the pace and power like certain players do, but he wipes the floor with certain players in possession of the ball. And if you watched Ajax in the Champions league when they were playing big teams, then they played a higher line and the way they handled transitions in a higher defensive line against some of the quickest attackers was tactically and intelligently superb. Blind tucked into form a back 3 and both Martinez and Blind would put the shackles on players like Haaland playing for Dortmund with Timber being assisted by Alvarez or Mazraoui depending on game situation and player position. And this was after giving Dortmund and Haaland the run around in possession. It's why I'm a firm believer in the inverted fullback it allows for balance and a technical play that we haven't seen in our team for too long and transitions can be handled by two technically gifted CBs without being exceptional athletically.
Yes we had a similar conversation earlier and it wasn't just with you that I had this conversation with . But you can't account for injuries and like I told you and a few others at the time, that ten Hag had factored Kobbie Mainoo into the team which you and a few others found to be unrealistic at the time. Whether it's Hannibal or Mount in the final third, that's not the issue, but when you have players like Martinez, Shaw and Mainoo missing for large parts of the season then it causes a big problem in the build up phase. And Onana is a far superior GK to De Gea who wouldn't even be considered by the top managers who want to implement a dominant brand of football. That might sound harsh but it's the reality.
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I don’t think attack is our biggest issue. It is still however definitely a big issue. Scoring less league goals than Luton tells you it’s an issue.
The problem is very big. Minus Garnacho and Hojlund, there’s not much going on although I have hope in Amad.
You’re not always correct in your insights (as shown by your comments in the onana thread) and you should probably reconsider this one as I would again suggest a team who’ve scored less goals than Luton probably have big issues with the efficiency of their attack.
im baffled about this Ajax big teams CL stuff you’ve mentioned. Martinez played in three CL campaigns for Ajax and they got knocked out the group stage twice. And since when were Dortmund considered a big team? Their results against actual big teams in that period read no wins vs Liverpool and Chelsea. Im confused as to how Ajax givin Dortmund a run round once amounts to what you’ve concluded there…
And my judgments isn’t clouded, I’m aware that problems in the deeper areas of the pitch with our press affect our forwards defending hence why I literally argued against you in the summer and stated the signings of Mount and Onana should not have been a priority with us lacking so much guile and athleticism in the midfield area. Interesting that you now point out that we badly need those attributes in the team…
Martinez and Shaw were available at the beginning of the season and we were rubbish against Spurs, Arsenal and Wolves. With all three games revealing the same issues.
The problem maybe very big but the systematic problem isn't to do with the players in forwards areas but in the first phase which I've consistently pointed out for several years. If your GK and CBs are suspect under pressure the opponent's press becomes more effective. And when that happens, you lose control of the game and can't sustain attacks. And i haven't even got to the defending transitions part. So when you as a team lose your best players in the build up phase at the back, then it absolutely has a negative impact on the players upfront for the reasons stated above and pinning teams back becomes a issue.
And I'm not saying I'm always right.
I used Haaland as a example of a player that Martinez has dealt with in a higher line in coordination with his team mates. And the reason I used him as a example was because he's not only physically stronger than Martinez but is also quicker. And Martinez didn't have a big problem against him in a system which shackled him in a high line in coordination with his team mates. Whether he was playing for Dortmund or anyone is irrelevant because we're talking about a player who is blessed with pace and power in abundance and rated as one of the best strikers in the world.
Onana and Hojlund were the priority positions for the summer which I've mentioned on here countless times. And if you read what the tier 1 journos were reporting, then it was one in and one out, and Mount was seen as a player to come in for Fred, who was leaving. Kim Min Jae was the reported Maguire replacement with Todibo another alternative. Amadou Onana and Youssouf Fofana were seen as the replacements for McTominay. Fred left but Maguire and Mctominay refused to leave, so it wasn't a case of prioritising Mount, but rather signing Mount because a midfield slot had opened up with Fred leaving.
You argued with me that we needed more craft and guile in midfield but I told you Mainoo was going to be introduced into the team, to which you, if I'm not mistaken, took a very dim view due to his age. But the kid is full of craft and guile and he's showing it on the pitch.
We weren't great by any means in those games but that's a really small sample size to draw any conclusions from and the season prior where they were both available for large parts is a much better sample size. We still haven't seen Onana, Martinez, Shaw and Kobbie Mainoo together in the team, or maybe we have, I can't remember. But having those players together creates the conditions for a more effective build up phase due to their technical ability on the ball.
I understand the praise Ten Hag is getting after United's voctory over the scum but truthfully he has some way to go to convince me that he is the right manager to take us to the next level. The evidence is 8 months of dire football. We are lucky to be even 7th so bad were we in the first half of the season.
Don't know of it's been mentioned but for me a key thing was players he had on the bench.
Eriksen, Mount - don't think we have had both available that often. Still has Amrabat too
Sure Evans got Injured and Shaw is out. But bringing in AWB and to still have Maguire instead of one of the young uns? How many times has that happened.
And up front. Hojlund comes back and he starts with Nacho and Rashy but still has Antony and Amad as back up.
Now some may say Amrabat has not been all that or Antony is xy and z but they were options of first teamers and internationals.
And sure some of these players have been a available at other times but Amrabat, for example, was potentially 3rd choice not 1st and certainly not starting.
Imagine when Shaw and Case are back and fit. We can keep up the intensity without a complete lack downgrading. So for example Antony and/Amad instead of a Forson etc
Things are looking up if these players stay fit.
Eriksen, Mount - don't think we have had both available that often. Still has Amrabat too
Sure Evans got Injured and Shaw is out. But bringing in AWB and to still have Maguire instead of one of the young uns? How many times has that happened.
And up front. Hojlund comes back and he starts with Nacho and Rashy but still has Antony and Amad as back up.
Now some may say Amrabat has not been all that or Antony is xy and z but they were options of first teamers and internationals.
And sure some of these players have been a available at other times but Amrabat, for example, was potentially 3rd choice not 1st and certainly not starting.
Imagine when Shaw and Case are back and fit. We can keep up the intensity without a complete lack downgrading. So for example Antony and/Amad instead of a Forson etc
Things are looking up if these players stay fit.
As @Judas said, it's a bizarre hill to die on. If, in your eyes it seems, your going to bring up any dramatic win why limit it to that Brentford game, what about the wolves game away, Mainoo winner with the last kick of the game for example? Just as dramatic on paper, but as others have said it's because it's Liverpool, that's the difference. Don't really understand how you don't get this.
Again I said about pure drama. Not against big club, occasion etc.
Same as Rooney overhead kick against City, and Garnacho overhead kick against Everton. Garnacho was better goal but Rooney goal was more 'big' because of City and being derby.
Against Brentford Scott scored in 93rd minute and 97th minute. In the same sentence as against Bayern in 1999. Losing the game in injury time then winning the game in the same added time.
To say the last game is the most dramatic game we've had in the last 20 years is absolutely wrong.
In the top 10 games, correct, but to say since 2004 beating Liverpool in FA Cup QF in 2024 is the most dramatic game we had is laughable.
This game is in the same sentence as 2019 in Paris against PSG. Winning a game where we are underdogs, young players, last minute goal. Then ultimately not winning the trophy.
Martinez got knocked out twice out of three runs? That can‘t be right because Ajax had 18 points in the group phase in 2020.
We weren‘t rubbish against Arsenal and Spurs: we could have won against Arsenal and played a brilliant first half against Spurs. The Wolves game we did suck, I give you that.
Martinez can play a high line brilliantly as he did at Ajax. He‘s proactive, which is missing from our current cb‘s. They are more comfortable sitting back.
I supported keeping DeGea on lower wages prioritizing other positions, but am so glad he‘s gone. Onana is so much better.
It is true we haven‘t seen his best ball playing yet, but we will. With DeGea it would not even be possible as we have seen last season. Playing out the back is a huge part of our strategy this year. When we play a higher line more consistently you will start seeing the best version of Onana.
As much as I praise him for this wonderful result and peformance, it would be such an inept Glazer / Woodward thing to do to give him an additional based one or a handful of results. I’m open to another year or ETH but he’s on very thin ice and it should take some serious serious progress for him to earn that.
I haven’t enjoyed a United match more in the post SAF era. The cup finals we won were more important of course but as a football match this was the best for me. 20 years - of course not as we won exciting matches before on route to major trophies. Brentford, never
Pure drama but you want to ignore the context of the game…. Right.
Again I said about pure drama. Not against big club, occasion etc.
Same as Rooney overhead kick against City, and Garnacho overhead kick against Everton. Garnacho was better goal but Rooney goal was more 'big' because of City and being derby.
Against Brentford Scott scored in 93rd minute and 97th minute. In the same sentence as against Bayern in 1999. Losing the game in injury time then winning the game in the same added time.
To say the last game is the most dramatic game we've had in the last 20 years is absolutely wrong.
In the top 10 games, correct, but to say since 2004 beating Liverpool in FA Cup QF in 2024 is the most dramatic game we had is laughable.
This game is in the same sentence as 2019 in Paris against PSG. Winning a game where we are underdogs, young players, last minute goal. Then ultimately not winning the trophy.
I would sign that off right away
That last sentence exposes your constant negativity. If you never want to be the underdog in football, sticking to one club for your whole life is probably not for you.
Again I said about pure drama. Not against big club, occasion etc.
Same as Rooney overhead kick against City, and Garnacho overhead kick against Everton. Garnacho was better goal but Rooney goal was more 'big' because of City and being derby.
Against Brentford Scott scored in 93rd minute and 97th minute. In the same sentence as against Bayern in 1999. Losing the game in injury time then winning the game in the same added time.
To say the last game is the most dramatic game we've had in the last 20 years is absolutely wrong.
In the top 10 games, correct, but to say since 2004 beating Liverpool in FA Cup QF in 2024 is the most dramatic game we had is laughable.
This game is in the same sentence as 2019 in Paris against PSG. Winning a game where we are underdogs, young players, last minute goal. Then ultimately not winning the trophy.
As good as City are, we're still in the competition with 4 teams left. The bookies have us at around 83% probability to reach the final, and a 28% probability to win it in the end, meaning that from our current position pre-semi-finals, we approximately win the FA Cup 1 out of 4 times.
I don't get how you're not looking forward to the Coventry game, and potentially the final after that, especially after the manner in which we reached Wembley.
There are rules for something which has no factual basis? do tell!
It was an Onana long pass that created the goal, the all important first goal against City. He has evidently been a major part of playing out the back too and bar the occassional miss pass(vs the many misses early in the season) has come leaps and bounds. It's so funny to see him almost casually, walk with the ball with an opposition striker in vincinity but this happens more and more. The difference with De Gea cannot be bigger. The defence trusts him and there is a good understanding grown there the last few months. Also became a good reliable shot stopper. Defense wise we are in the top 4 and that is also because of Onana. Against LFC I counted 4 crucial saves in the first 60 minutes alone. Speaking for myself, I also looked forward with confidence to any penalty shoot out with LFC if it came to that with him vs that LFC goalkeeper.
I was like you the first few months for sure, but either ETH is a good manager that knows how to build confidence and get him back to star quality that he was at Ajax, or maybe he simply really is a good player. (Probably a bit of both.) But Onana atm, not a major impact in our play is simply not true.
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What worries me about Ten Hag's main ability is that it could arguably be his one ability.
His main ability is to improve and progress a player a level up.
We saw it with Dalot, Garnacho, Wan Bissaka, Mainoo, Rashford, Shaw the CB, De Gea trying to play out from the back - at United at different times, we saw him try it with Sancho in pre-season playing him as a false 9, so I'm kind of excited to see him try improve players like Amad, Hojlund and even players like Amass or Gore who might be just around the corner.
It's arguably what we all saw at Ajax - rather than being some tactical magician - what he did was really improve and make players like De ligt, De Jong, Van De Beek, Onana go from players that kind of went from no one to the next big things after a fantastic CL squad performance where he still lost to Tottenham Hotspur arguably very poorly in the last minuites.
Ajax are clearly a club that has a history of finding and using the next great young players - the Zlatan's, Davids and Kluiverts plus many many more & Ten Hag seems like a perfect coach for these next young players because he actually has the ability to make them better - going from young players to great players at a club like Ajax,
If Ten Hag is going to be here next year, we as a club need to be more like Ajax. Find the next best players both through scouting and our own youth systems and force Ten Hag to use these players by telling him to get the best out of them because they are 100% young players with huge potential. He clearly has a poor identification of a player's quality or possibly even overvalues things like a players hard working mentality (no doubt questionable by many) as we have seen from Antony, Malacia, Amrabat, Weghorst & maybe even Mason Mount, so the players must be given to him to try and improve rather than him choose his own players at his own free will.
This is actually why I think we did better as a team last year than this year because again - alot of the players were not 'his players' (De gea, Martial, AWB, Rashford, Bruno, Dalot, Shaw, Maguire, Sancho, Lindelof, Varane etc) and were players he had to use and try to improve rather than try build a new team by himself which he simply cannot do.
Build the team for him and let him improve & get the best out of those players.
His main ability is to improve and progress a player a level up.
We saw it with Dalot, Garnacho, Wan Bissaka, Mainoo, Rashford, Shaw the CB, De Gea trying to play out from the back - at United at different times, we saw him try it with Sancho in pre-season playing him as a false 9, so I'm kind of excited to see him try improve players like Amad, Hojlund and even players like Amass or Gore who might be just around the corner.
It's arguably what we all saw at Ajax - rather than being some tactical magician - what he did was really improve and make players like De ligt, De Jong, Van De Beek, Onana go from players that kind of went from no one to the next big things after a fantastic CL squad performance where he still lost to Tottenham Hotspur arguably very poorly in the last minuites.
Ajax are clearly a club that has a history of finding and using the next great young players - the Zlatan's, Davids and Kluiverts plus many many more & Ten Hag seems like a perfect coach for these next young players because he actually has the ability to make them better - going from young players to great players at a club like Ajax,
If Ten Hag is going to be here next year, we as a club need to be more like Ajax. Find the next best players both through scouting and our own youth systems and force Ten Hag to use these players by telling him to get the best out of them because they are 100% young players with huge potential. He clearly has a poor identification of a player's quality or possibly even overvalues things like a players hard working mentality (no doubt questionable by many) as we have seen from Antony, Malacia, Amrabat, Weghorst & maybe even Mason Mount, so the players must be given to him to try and improve rather than him choose his own players at his own free will.
This is actually why I think we did better as a team last year than this year because again - alot of the players were not 'his players' (De gea, Martial, AWB, Rashford, Bruno, Dalot, Shaw, Maguire, Sancho, Lindelof, Varane etc) and were players he had to use and try to improve rather than try build a new team by himself which he simply cannot do.
Build the team for him and let him improve & get the best out of those players.
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This thread is toxic beyond belief. Dear God, it's never going to get any better, is it? If we win FA cup and get top 4, we'll be reading all summer how our standarts have dropped, how this is not nearly enough and how Eric should get sacked immediately.
As I said, insane take.
Again I said about pure drama. Not against big club, occasion etc.
Same as Rooney overhead kick against City, and Garnacho overhead kick against Everton. Garnacho was better goal but Rooney goal was more 'big' because of City and being derby.
Against Brentford Scott scored in 93rd minute and 97th minute. In the same sentence as against Bayern in 1999. Losing the game in injury time then winning the game in the same added time.
To say the last game is the most dramatic game we've had in the last 20 years is absolutely wrong.
In the top 10 games, correct, but to say since 2004 beating Liverpool in FA Cup QF in 2024 is the most dramatic game we had is laughable.
This game is in the same sentence as 2019 in Paris against PSG. Winning a game where we are underdogs, young players, last minute goal. Then ultimately not winning the trophy.
Nothing compares to a win against Liverpool. To do it in that fashion, as underdogs, was something else entirely.