It still surprises me when people change their opinions on wanting Ten Hag to stay after a couple of wins. There are some here that are staunchly EtH in and hold that position even in defeats and that’s because they believe in EtH. If you’ve had two years or so to see what he’s about why would a mini streak of results change your view on him, especially as they have been very rough wins.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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The style of play is amateur and incoherent.
Defending deep and pressing high. It doesn’t work for long term success. Theres no other top team in Europes top 5 leagues that leave huge gaps in midfield like us under ETH.
How high does the win ratio have to be for you to change your mind?
It's very hard to judge ETH.
Yes, he made few mistakes but to his defense, we had no football people to support him or tell him basic things like. Paying 85m for Antony is nuts.
Unless there is a clear better option who is proven winner, I see no need to change ETH.
He deserves a chance under a proper structure before we talk nonsense about hiring people like Southgate, de Zerbi and Potter.
Yes, he made few mistakes but to his defense, we had no football people to support him or tell him basic things like. Paying 85m for Antony is nuts.
Unless there is a clear better option who is proven winner, I see no need to change ETH.
He deserves a chance under a proper structure before we talk nonsense about hiring people like Southgate, de Zerbi and Potter.
Win rate? have you actually seen how bad we have played in 2024?
We have had luck giving us results instead of skill.
Do you really think thats sustainable?
Even in the Liverpool match we lost control of the game in a 50 min period.
Sure, injuries is to blame.
Whether Ten Hag stays or goes I think there will be upheavel either way this summer. With a new owner, Ceo, Dof, Head of recruitment the direction, style and recruitment/sales will see big change.
Yeah, you're right there, it's not a great analogy, perhaps more of an Adrian Newey/Verstappen relationship?
We weren't lucky against many of the teams we played in 2024.Win rate? have you actually seen how bad we have played in 2024?
We have had luck giving us results instead of skill.
Do you really think thats sustainable?
Even in the Liverpool match we lost control of the game in a 50 min period.
Sure, injuries is to blame.
Also the 50 minute argument is untrue, why do people seem intent on outright making things up about games?
So what win rate is acceptable?Win rate? have you actually seen how bad we have played in 2024?
We have had luck giving us results instead of skill.
Do you really think thats sustainable?
Even in the Liverpool match we lost control of the game in a 50 min period.
Sure, injuries is to blame.
For the 100th time can we stop posting like this is his designed long term plan for the club. Varane and Licha plus two actual full backs would be 10-15 yards further out.
It's clear he wanted a CB to sustain that in the summer too, which didn't materialise. In fact we played Liverpool welcoming just one full back catering out of position for LB and it made a huge difference to how we were stationed.
This notion that Ten hag wants a deep defensive line is such nonsense, it's happened in the interim because the squad emergency players aren't the profile needed to carry the style out. But theyl likely get turfed sooner rather than later, so he's prioritised getting the W and maintaining his high press philosophy.
It's true but it's hard for the club/transfer people to put a "reasonable price" threshold on a player that they never wanted and the new manager is pushing for. Especially if that manager knows the player inside out, he will get some extra credit.
In the end it's probably 80% ETH fault we ended up paying that money for Antony - and that's being generous. Imagine having 80m to spend and you still go for Antony, and then you moan about not having money for other transfers.
I think his point is more about ETH still going for high pressing line/big number of players pushing forward, what combined with deep defensive line (as you correctly stated we don't have CBs that suit high defensive line) leaves us exposed in the middle, what has been the story of the season so far and the reason we have no control whatsoever.
So ETH being stubborn with this setup results us in playing basketball games. And he doesn't seem too fussed about this what is a huge worry for me.
A player they never wanted? What is this about? It is well reported Antony was a known quanity since Ole days and a transfer unanimously agreed upon at the time of signing. Not just this, but the transfer fee was signed off at board level above Ten Hag.
If the club didn't want Antony, they wouldn't get him.
Again, I don't think we are trying to play deep by design. Watch the first 10-15 mins of most of our games and youl see us initially stationed high before sinking deep when we had to call on emergency players to start games. It's a temporary problem, to your point I'd question what would work if not the current system. What will promise to deliver better results than what we've just seen under Ten Hag? Remember his upturn in form is extremely good in the last 10-15 games.
I dont know you tell me how many games VVD, Salah, Maca have missed compare to our best players in Licha Shaw and Casemiro.
Some of you would deserve Southgate 
I am actually glad that you did that.
Correct, you can drive in the le mans but with the car you have you wont win... same as ETH
You could practice cardio-thoracic.. but without training alot will go wrong... same with ETH
You have a small... ofcourse you wont be as good a porn star... same with ETH
You are really proving my point, fans want good football and title challenge... but the tools are not there.. but yes blame the manager.
ETH had a style of play before he came to United and then after a few game being battered, he changed his style to be more pragmatic and counter attacking to suit the players.
This season he is trying to develop his style but with all the injuries and issues, he has found it difficult.
You say it yourself, it works in the beginning of most games and then players just drop off. Which shows a lack of discipline that EtH doesn't seem to be able to fix but just accepts as he never seems to address this. And considering how highly he claims to rate discipline (and how much a lot of you like him for enforcing that with players like Sancho) I think this is really weird.
Hope we stick with him. I love him.
I think of the games we have played in 2024:
Wolves 4-3: not lucky, we should have been 5-0 up before they scored their first goal
West Ham 3-0: not lucky, they had some chances but we controlled the game very well
Luton 2-1: somewhat lucky but not that much
Villa 2-1: extremely lucky
Everton 2-0: not lucky, just better
So basically it's really just Villa game where we were clearly lucky to have got the win, the others not so much.
I would imagine a hell of a-lot would want him to stay if the alternative is Southgate.
It's not a lack of discipline. Having that much of a patched up defence is less than ideal and players are just unable to stay high up.
Thats not a discipline issue but more of a technical limitation of his 3rd and 4th choice players. Again, you just needed wan bissaka back at the backline to see how much higher we can station the defence vs Liverpool
VP, I see you always post in defence of ETH and excuse everything. We are wide open whatever team starts, even when we had a fully 11 at the start of the season against Wolves, if they won the back back in their own third they could burst through and midfield was literally empty. Fast forward to Fulham and we see the exact same thing. We are still able to field a back 4 of seasoned internationals even with injuries, against City I think the back 4 had nearly 200 caps between them. The set up is flawed, it would rely on a prime Kante or similar to work and cover acres of space, even then he would struggle. The need to be always chasing back means players are running a lot, perhaps alongside issues such as lack of rotation (esc last season), reports of overly intense pre season and training sessions are factors in our many injuries. This has been quite widely referenced in the press with insider comments. If you cant control the ball in modern football you cant control the shape of the match and are always reactive. We cant do either and so always exposed, always reactive and always chasing too much. I struggle to see this set up working even with a full 11 (which we have had).
Anyone who has two working legs can stand a few meters different. Claiming that they are unable to do that is probably the worst take I've seen all week.
Probably you mean they are unable to cover the space behind their back when they position themselves higher up, because they are too slow? That would be a fair assessment.
It comes down to the decision: Do you want more control, but be more vulnerable by fast attacks? Or do you want less control, but have a better last line of defence?
Most of the time it looks like the latter, but the fact that this often develops over the first 15min or so (as you rightly acknowledge) creates the impression for me that this isn't what EtH wants and that the CBs don't push through their fears to play the way he wants.
Maybe discipline is the wrong word, maybe it is more a lack of trust in the managers plan. Either way to me it looks like EtH isn't able to enforce the style he actually wants through full matches. Alternatively if he is fine with what is happening than I still wouldn't like it, because it destroys any possibility to really build up automatisms in how the team plays and that shows. So whichever explanation is true I don't like it.
Well it's rare there is visible evidence of any instructions being adhered to, which is an issue.Yes, the manager sends the players out with a “best of luck” and zero instructions.
Picking out win rate as opposed to points or position in the league is pretty funny, might as well start talking about the number of throw ins we have hadWin rate? have you actually seen how bad we have played in 2024?
We have had luck giving us results instead of skill.
Do you really think thats sustainable?
Even in the Liverpool match we lost control of the game in a 50 min period.
Sure, injuries is to blame.
If it's Southgate or Potter as alternative options, I'd rather stick with ten Hag.
It's worrying though. If this is the calibre of manager that INEOS are interested in, what does that say about players? Are we going to go for the likes of Ivan Toney and Kalvin Phillips?
It's worrying though. If this is the calibre of manager that INEOS are interested in, what does that say about players? Are we going to go for the likes of Ivan Toney and Kalvin Phillips?
This is quite a bizzare reply. Whilst acknowledging Fulham is totally on him, this idea that we fielded internationals at the back and so should cope with city better is quite silly. I don't care if Lindelof has played 500 times for Sweden, he's still not a left back. It's astounding how this needs to be spelt out to some posters.
Ive seen every game in 2024. Horrible fotball. We cant seem to defend, we get overrun in midfield, we have no offensive plan whatsoever.
We dont pass the ball, we dont move, we are bad at set pieces, we are bad in both boxes. We are worse on the counter than we were under Ole. He even had a better offensive plan and scored much more goals without sacrificing balance in team.
The only redeeming thing atm, is that we have some promesing young players.
And yes, we have been lucky. If you cant aknowledge that, its just not any hope for you.
You guys dont seem to understand that the way we play isnt sustainable, and its just a matter of time before we start loosing even matches again.
The pool game was wierd, we should have been up 3-0 the first 25, but again we just cant seem to put away our good chances.
After the first 25 min, Pool had control in 50 min, i mean total control. It was really only a matter of time before they went up 3-1. They should have, after running through our midfield several times.
The fluke Anthony goal won us the game, because we had much more energy than pool after that.
Massive boost, fantastic result, and really good for the morale, but it wont change anything the way we play.
Its that simple.
Just want to add that ETH is not to blame, but injuries
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As far as I know Ajax turned down our initial bid/didn't want to sell for the close to market price in the early stages of the window. Seems like we didn't fancy going higher, and yet panicked after disaster start of the season. The first decision to stop pursuing him was correct, everything that happened after was wrong. So it's very clear ETH wanted Antony badly, while the club wasn't convinced.
I am not aware of the reports you mentioned, I saw some "reports" about United scouts not wanting Antony (might have been before ETH @United days), anyway you will find a "report" for anything so not so bothered.
I don't think you got my point, so again: even if we're forced to play low defensive line, nobody forces us to play high attacking line/high pressing with many players. This is clearly ETH idea, we didn't play like that last season and we were far more successful. So it's not like this is the only way we can play football now.
Il nip this in the bud by referring you to the latest deep dive on our summers - https://theathletic.com/5151315/202...all-news-transfers?source=user-shared-article
"Ten Hag felt he needed an additional attacker and though he had reservations about returning to Ajax, the target to gain universal agreement was Antony."
"Ten Hag undoubtedly wanted to sign Antony, but sanctioning the outlay came from above. Those with an understanding of United’s structure say several directors are involved in “checks and balances”"
Whilst acknowledging he challenged his superiors to do what's needed to sign the player, this narrative that the club weren't on the same page in wanting him is absolutely false. They could have vetoed it, but chose not to. In face they were in universal agreement to pursue him.
I dont think you got mine. Whilst acknowledging this is not an ideal approach for the interim, I'm asking what solution is better. Last season relied heavily on Licha being a mainstay at the back and Rashford being on fire for most the season. Neither of which are happening now.
Rashford is at his best when he can just run at a defence. By positioning him higher up EtH is weakening him. That tactical change is part of the current Rashford problem
Rashford has had plenty of games running at defenders where he was absolute rubbish this season
Well, I didn't say that this is his while problem, did I?
That's such a random and incorrect statement.
We dominated the midfield against Liverpool though.
Better than 6th best in the league would be a start.
The first 30 mins we did. We pressed really good and won everything back quickly. Then we let them have a lot of the ball especially in the second half. But I thought near the end if one team was going to win then it was gonna be us. We pushed hardest and made our counters work where as they messed there’s up.
Rashford is not playing higher than he was last season.
So where?
So the players are going against the managers instructions for the whole year?
The design is terrible. Either push the whole team up in game or drop back the whole team in unity in game. If the coach can’t implement that in a game after 10 mins then he is an insufficient coach.
Playing like this for a whole season plus playing shite football since March 2023 of last season is evidence of this.
What’s the difference between our defence and Villa’s defence who literally play on the halfway line? Regardless of injury?