Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[TsuWave]

I mean it's different but is it that different? I've looked at all our defeats in the league this season and the majority have featured 5 or more starters from previous managers that have been at the club for 5+ years. Today was one of the games that only featured 4 of those starting players that have been here for 5 years or more (and two more who came off the bench). Here's the list if you're interested- the number of those starters and the subs in our defeats:

• Spurs 4 (2)
• Arsenal 6 (1)
• Brighton 5 (2)
• Crystal Palace 4 (2)
• Man City 6 (1)
• Newcastle 8 (0)
• Bournemouth 6 (1)
• West Ham 4 (1)
• Nottingham Forest 4 (1)
• Fulham 5 (1)
• Man City 5 (0)
• Chelsea 4 (2)

To say it's a considerably different team is not entirely true looking at the data.

I'm 100% on board with anyone saying they've had enough of this manager and i'm tired of this chaotic football but when you've got half a team of players that have been consistent failures in terms of title challenges and rebuilds down the years, it's frustrating. My biggest fear is that the cycle continues in the summer when we get a new manager in, keep most of the players and expect drastically different results.

I don't know what you're arguing here. It is a team considerably different to the one the last manager had. 5 of the players that started are EtH's. 8 of the 16 used are EtH's. That's half of the team. How is that not considerable? What are you saying?

 

[justboy68]

We're seeing Ten Hag's idiotic coaching really starting to catch up results wise. Sent out every game to play like a bunch of clowns. The sooner we can get off Ten Hag's wild ride the better. Laughably inept coach at the moment.

 

[padzilla]

What's the argument to keep him in the role at this stage?

 

[croadyman]

Ratcliffe being there is bad news for Erik,presume he is taking in the scouse game on Sunday too

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I think if Qatar had taken us over he would have been sacked by now.
Let's see if INEOS are brave enough.

 

[CasaStreets]

What's the argument to keep him in the role at this stage?

The best argument has been the same for some time. This is it:

Our players are not capable of consistently doing anything more than challenging for 4th/5th. Many of them, even the most celebrated, need to go in order for us to progress. If a new manager comes in, that manager may decide they need to learn this lesson all over again.

I know it's a terrible reason to keep a manager but, if a new manager arrives and keeps these players, we're signing up for another few seasons of 4th-7th. The arguments that club structure should solve for this issue are well and good but the truth is that structure may not be fully in place and capable of making the tough decisions this summer.

So that's the argument.

 

[Offside]

Has installed the weakest mentality ever seen at a big club.

 

[AshRK]

I think if Qatar had taken us over he would have been sacked by now.
Let's see if INEOS are brave enough.

No point sacking him when the season is almost over. Sack him in May end and start fresh. I don't want these players to up the game for 10 matches only to down their tool again.

 

[croadyman]

The best argument has been the same for some time. This is it:

Our players are not capable of consistently doing anything more than challenging for 4th/5th. Many of them, even the most celebrated, need to go in order for us to progress. If a new manager comes in, that manager may decide they need to learn this lesson all over again.

I know it's a terrible reason to keep a manager but, if a new manager arrives and keeps these players, we're signing up for another few seasons of 4th-7th. The arguments that club structure should solve for this issue are well and good but the truth is that structure may not be fully in place and capable of making the tough decisions this summer.

So that's the argument.

Yeah that's definitely a terrible reason

 

[CasaStreets]

Yeah that's definitely a terrible reason

Yup, agreed, but sadly we'll stay at this level if we don't have anyone to make the hard decisions about these players

 

[Offside]

The calamity results he’s served up this season. Genuinely impressive no joke:

- Arsenal (A) - 90th minute winner to win 2-1 gets ruled out and we lose 3-1. Calamity.
- Galatasaray (H) - 1-0 up and dominating. 2-1 up with 15 mins to go. End up losing 3-2 at OT in the CL group stage. Almost unheard of.
- Copenhagen (A) - 2-0 up in the 45th minute then go in at half time at 2-2. 3-2 up in the 80th minute then end up losing 4-3. Complete shambles.
- Galatasaray (A) - 2-0 up. 3-1 up. Draw 3-3.
- Fulham (H) - 1-0 down then equalise in the last minute to draw 1-1. Rather than completing the classic United comeback they go up the other end and score to win 2-1 at OT.
- Brentford (A) - Winning goal in the 96th minute to win 1-0 but still end up drawing 1-1. Genuinely impressive.
- Chelsea (A) - Record breaking levels of calamity. 3-2 up in the 99th minute and lose 4-3. Would be hard to do deliberately.

This is the mentality he’s installed. What’s next seriously? He’s only going to go and lose to Coventry in the cup. It’s not just the bad results, as I said the way we are finding ways to lose is genuinely remarkable. Although when you combine it with getting battered home and away to City, home to Bournemouth etc. then there’s no argument for him to keep his job.

 

[croadyman]

Statement confirming his release at 10am tomorrow morning.

No chance he is sacked 2 days before scousers

 

[Marcus]

Bayern announced sacking of Tuchel at the end of the season. It has still done their form no good. So I would keep quiet if I were INEOS and do it quickly with no forewarning at the end of the last game of the season.

 

[RobbieBerns]

He has proven with his lack of ability to adapt and try something new to deal with getting cut through every game like a hot knife through butter, can’t be trusted moving forward even with squad improvements. The best managers can get performances out of squads that are levels above what would be considered a squad’s celling.

The definition of insanity is trying the same thing time after time expecting results to eventually change, so the fact that he’s so stubborn he can’t adjust the 4-6 formation with a half assed press from the front 6 and a low defensive line leading to breaks through our midfield with pace a common theme throughout the game?

This guy’s head is in the clouds and is delusional, we need a manager who is a realist and is prepared to do the hard work to make the best out of what he’s been given, instead of taking the lazy route of standing behind some bullshit principles that clearly isn’t translating on the pitch.

 

[DSG]

@VP89 @BenitoSTARR @UDontMessWith24 @NLunited
@Plant0x84
This is not an “I told you so” post. I genuinely think you add to the forum and my passion for Man United. I disagree(d) with your position that Ten Hag was a good enough manager for Man United, but that’s what makes this a place of discussion.

Bummed by the posters who are trolling you. We all were devastated by the loss today. Frankly, it doesn’t matter. We have Liverpool on Sunday and we join together for that!

Seriously, let’s hope we can take some points off those feckers. Ten Hag, pull out all the stops, do what it takes!! I do not want to capitulate and serve up 3 points!

 

[Red_toad]

What's the argument to keep him in the role at this stage?

What's the alternative? Probably a big difference in paying him out now or in the summer. Then there's the whole will it have any affect on the players who don't give want to work for the fans and their colleagues.
We could get Pep in and he'd have a meltdown with this group.

 

[Marcus]

He has proven with his lack of ability to adapt and try something new to deal with getting cut through every game like a hot knife through butter, can’t be trusted moving forward even with squad improvements. The best managers can get performances out of squads that are levels above what would be considered a squad’s celling.

The definition of insanity is trying the same thing time after time expecting results to eventually change, so the fact that he’s so stubborn he can’t adjust the 4-6 formation with a half assed press from the front 6 and a low defensive line leading to breaks through our midfield with pace a common theme throughout the game?

This guy’s head is in the clouds and is delusional, we need a manager who is a realist and is prepared to do the hard work to make the best out of what he’s been given, instead of taking the lazy route of standing behind some bullshit principles that clearly isn’t translating on the pitch.

I agree. I wonder if he takes into account inputs from his own coaching staff or are they just doormats to him? Given that he did not want to even meet with RR at the beginning of his tenure shows that he is fixated with the notion that he is right and it is his way or the highway. Enough is enough.

 

[DSG]

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Not cool. I’m not an ETH fan, but that is pretty awful.

 

[RobbieBerns]

I agree. I wonder if he takes into account inputs from his own coaching staff or are they just doormats to him? Given that he did not want to even meet with RR at the beginning of his tenure shows that he is fixated with the notion that he is right and it is his way or the highway. Enough is enough.

Has to be a case of big fish in little pond being out of his depth when other teams in the league have equal or better resources on top of their more experienced and superior squads. Seeing as we’ll still not have a fully optimized squad I can’t see any way keeping ten Hag is a possibility given his inability to think on his feet and work in less than ideal circumstances.

 

[NK86]

Yup, agreed, but sadly we'll stay at this level if we don't have anyone to make the hard decisions about these players

So the answer to this is to keep a man who bought Antony , Onana, and Mount for a combined total of nearly 200 mil euros?

 

[SirMonteyne]

Stubborn, he doesn't want to prove that pundits were right, so he won't change any of his tactics.

 

[DSG]

The calamity results he’s served up this season. Genuinely impressive no joke:

- Arsenal (A) - 90th minute winner to win 2-1 gets ruled out and we lose 3-1. Calamity.
- Galatasaray (H) - 1-0 up and dominating. 2-1 up with 15 mins to go. End up losing 3-2 at OT in the CL group stage. Almost unheard of.
- Copenhagen (A) - 2-0 up in the 45th minute then go in at half time at 2-2. 3-2 up in the 80th minute then end up losing 4-3. Complete shambles.
- Galatasaray (A) - 2-0 up. 3-1 up. Draw 3-3.
- Fulham (H) - 1-0 down then equalise in the last minute to draw 1-1. Rather than completing the classic United comeback they go up the other end and score to win 2-1 at OT.
- Brentford (A) - Winning goal in the 96th minute to win 1-0 but still end up drawing 1-1. Genuinely impressive.
- Chelsea (A) - Record breaking levels of calamity. 3-2 up in the 99th minute and lose 4-3. Would be hard to do deliberately.

This is the mentality he’s installed. What’s next seriously? He’s only going to go and lose to Coventry in the cup. It’s not just the bad results, as I said the way we are finding ways to lose is genuinely remarkable. Although when you combine it with getting battered home and away to City, home to Bournemouth etc. then there’s no argument for him to keep his job.

It’s not great. Coming back to win is a great trait. Conceding late to lose or draw is energy draining

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Surely he has to go now? I supported him as long as I could but there’s really no case to be made for him anymore. Signings have not worked out. Tactics have not worked out. Effort levels / physicality hasn’t really met the mark either.

The only thing I want from him aside from an FA cup win (if he lasts that long) is to take points off Liverpool this weekend. Please don’t hand Liverpool number 20 on a platter. 19 was bad enough but to lose out status as the most successful team in English football in terms of titles will be disastrous.

 

[eire-red]

Manchester United boss Erik ten Hag, speaking to TNT Sports: "Yes we started poor, kicking the ball away and defending poorly.

"But you saw we were dominating the game and it was brilliant how we played - we deserved to win the game.

"But, you cannot give it away like we did and we have to manage this game better.

"It is a team performance, you can point to one of the players but it is about team performance.

"When it gets chaotic you have to deal with it as a team and we made the wrong decisions and we didn't help out as a team.

"Out of possession we made bad decision - a lack of concentration.

"Also, I think lucky at the end with the penalty situation, questionable and very soft but we have to do better."

On shots conceded: "It is ridiculous. We showed we were fourth ranking goals in conceding and everyone is talking to each other after, we are good and we have good defending as a team and a good goalkeeper so I cannot do nothing."

On Raphael Varane and Jonny Evans fitness: "I cannot say at this moment."

On the result: "Definitely a setback and now we have to deal with this and get up - we are resilient and you have seen that today.

"The quality of our football is really high, but football is about results and you have to bring it over time."

He's living in cuckoo land. Honestly, we're not at the races. It's clear to see how flaky Chelsea are and we just handed them the game, along with some very dubious refereeing.

A serious team hits another one or two after going 3-2 up and are able to put that game to bed. Putting Rashford up front where he's just not effective was a bad decision. Nobody remembers the performance in games like this. Fact is, we foun

The calamity results he’s served up this season. Genuinely impressive no joke:

- Arsenal (A) - 90th minute winner to win 2-1 gets ruled out and we lose 3-1. Calamity.
- Galatasaray (H) - 1-0 up and dominating. 2-1 up with 15 mins to go. End up losing 3-2 at OT in the CL group stage. Almost unheard of.
- Copenhagen (A) - 2-0 up in the 45th minute then go in at half time at 2-2. 3-2 up in the 80th minute then end up losing 4-3. Complete shambles.
- Galatasaray (A) - 2-0 up. 3-1 up. Draw 3-3.
- Fulham (H) - 1-0 down then equalise in the last minute to draw 1-1. Rather than completing the classic United comeback they go up the other end and score to win 2-1 at OT.
- Brentford (A) - Winning goal in the 96th minute to win 1-0 but still end up drawing 1-1. Genuinely impressive.
- Chelsea (A) - Record breaking levels of calamity. 3-2 up in the 99th minute and lose 4-3. Would be hard to do deliberately.

This is the mentality he’s installed. What’s next seriously? He’s only going to go and lose to Coventry in the cup. It’s not just the bad results, as I said the way we are finding ways to lose is genuinely remarkable. Although when you combine it with getting battered home and away to City, home to Bournemouth etc. then there’s no argument for him to keep his job.

What sticks out to me in those games is that time and again we seem to have these periods when we just go under so easily and can concede 2 or 3 in quick succession. Let's not even add City and Liverpool away from last season.

We have some high moments, but the lows that we can reach in certain periods are some of the lowest lows I can recall seeing of any United team.

In fairness, a lot of that you could say is out of EtH's control. In the heat of battle, what can the manager do if players are doing crazy things on the pitch in a short space of time? Often within a couple of phases of play.

However, the problem is that his tactical set-up seems to foster this type of game, rather than control it. Think of the things you'd use to describe the best teams. Obviously you'll have the entertainment, attacking flair etc etc.. but what I always think the key traits are 'controlled', 'composed', 'measured', 'resilient'.

We are none of those things in reality. I think some of it is down to a young team, but we're also quite an emotional team. Bruno is the prime example, but also Dalot today. He clearly tried to make amends for the pen and we were piling on for the winner in the 97th min or whatever. It's away at Chelsea, just see the damn game out.

 

[RedDevil@84]

The end is near.

Spoiler

 

[CasaStreets]

So the answer to this is to keep a man who bought Antony , Onana, and Mount for a combined total of nearly 200 mil euros?

Actually I don’t think there is an answer

If we keep him, we’ll probably not improve tactically

If we let him go, we’ll probably keep our problem players for longer while a new manager/back office figures out the issues

Think it’s a very bumpy ride that’s going to stay bumpy for 2 more seasons, minimum

Net/net, I’d probably say sack him in the summer (depending on who is replacement is), but let’s not sit here and pretend a new manager is going to guarantee us 4th & CL football - our players are much more limited than we’d like to believe

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The calamity results he’s served up this season. Genuinely impressive no joke:

- Arsenal (A) - 90th minute winner to win 2-1 gets ruled out and we lose 3-1. Calamity.
- Galatasaray (H) - 1-0 up and dominating. 2-1 up with 15 mins to go. End up losing 3-2 at OT in the CL group stage. Almost unheard of.
- Copenhagen (A) - 2-0 up in the 45th minute then go in at half time at 2-2. 3-2 up in the 80th minute then end up losing 4-3. Complete shambles.
- Galatasaray (A) - 2-0 up. 3-1 up. Draw 3-3.
- Fulham (H) - 1-0 down then equalise in the last minute to draw 1-1. Rather than completing the classic United comeback they go up the other end and score to win 2-1 at OT.
- Brentford (A) - Winning goal in the 96th minute to win 1-0 but still end up drawing 1-1. Genuinely impressive.
- Chelsea (A) - Record breaking levels of calamity. 3-2 up in the 99th minute and lose 4-3. Would be hard to do deliberately.

This is the mentality he’s installed. What’s next seriously? He’s only going to go and lose to Coventry in the cup. It’s not just the bad results, as I said the way we are finding ways to lose is genuinely remarkable. Although when you combine it with getting battered home and away to City, home to Bournemouth etc. then there’s no argument for him to keep his job.

Madness. It’s because aside from this squads pathetic mentality we are so darn open pretty much every team becomes a creative force against us.

 

[christy87]

And that’s that, now he can go, the man never respected the league and never understood what it took to play ball at this level, he got lucky last season that rashy was on fire in spite of his tactics

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Not cool. I’m not an ETH fan, but that is pretty awful.

Yep.

 

[Desert Eagle]

The calamity results he’s served up this season. Genuinely impressive no joke:

- Arsenal (A) - 90th minute winner to win 2-1 gets ruled out and we lose 3-1. Calamity.
- Galatasaray (H) - 1-0 up and dominating. 2-1 up with 15 mins to go. End up losing 3-2 at OT in the CL group stage. Almost unheard of.
- Copenhagen (A) - 2-0 up in the 45th minute then go in at half time at 2-2. 3-2 up in the 80th minute then end up losing 4-3. Complete shambles.
- Galatasaray (A) - 2-0 up. 3-1 up. Draw 3-3.
- Fulham (H) - 1-0 down then equalise in the last minute to draw 1-1. Rather than completing the classic United comeback they go up the other end and score to win 2-1 at OT.
- Brentford (A) - Winning goal in the 96th minute to win 1-0 but still end up drawing 1-1. Genuinely impressive.
- Chelsea (A) - Record breaking levels of calamity. 3-2 up in the 99th minute and lose 4-3. Would be hard to do deliberately.

This is the mentality he’s installed. What’s next seriously? He’s only going to go and lose to Coventry in the cup. It’s not just the bad results, as I said the way we are finding ways to lose is genuinely remarkable. Although when you combine it with getting battered home and away to City, home to Bournemouth etc. then there’s no argument for him to keep his job.

Seven times in just one season. This is truly a reflection of the manager and his key players especially that so called captain. Zero composure when the going gets tough. Ready to implode at any moment. Can't wait till we are rid of these serial losers.

 

[Martinez4midfield]

Imagine putting in Mctominay when you need to shut up shop. The kids only skill set is getting in the box and scoring a goal. Offers absolutely nothing else. He's literally a net negative when the other team has the ball.

 

[NK86]

Actually I don’t think there is an answer

If we keep him, we’ll probably not improve tactically

If we let him go, we’ll probably keep our problem players for longer while a new manager/back office figures out the issues

Think it’s a very bumpy ride that’s going to stay bumpy for 2 more seasons, minimum

Net/net, I’d probably say sack him in the summer (depending on who is replacement is), but let’s not sit here and pretend a new manager is going to guarantee us 4th & CL football - our players are much more limited than we’d like to believe

Who on here is claiming it is an either/or situation? However the manager is part of the problem and needs to go too.
The clear-out of the players should happen as well.

Keeping him to clear out problem players when he has bought a handful of them and playing some of the others despite horrible performances is proof enough that he will exacerbate the problem rather than solve it.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Manchester United boss Erik ten Hag, speaking to TNT Sports: "Yes we started poor, kicking the ball away and defending poorly.

"But you saw we were dominating the game and it was brilliant how we played - we deserved to win the game.


"The quality of our football is really high, but football is about results and you have to bring it over time."

What is he on about? Dominating, high quality football?!

 

[CasaStreets]

Who on here is claiming it is an either/or situation? However the manager is part of the problem and needs to go too.
The clear-out of the players should happen as well.

Keeping him to clear out problem players when he has bought a handful of them and playing some of the others despite horrible performances is proof enough that he will exacerbate the problem rather than solve it.

It’s fun to pretend you can have it both ways but if history has been any guide then we know our new managers don’t make dramatic moves to remove a lot of existing players - particularly not high-profile ones

Would love to be proven wrong, don’t think I will be

 

[RedDevil@84]

If we let him go, we’ll probably keep our problem players for longer while a new manager/back office figures out the issues

The only players that are going are probably the guys on last legs of the contract. A couple of them may even get contract extensions.

 

[padzilla]

What's the alternative? Probably a big difference in paying him out now or in the summer. Then there's the whole will it have any affect on the players who don't give want to work for the fans and their colleagues.
We could get Pep in and he'd have a meltdown with this group.

He might not be the biggest problem but, it's becoming more and more apparent, he isn't the answer either.

 

[Desert Eagle]

What is he on about? Dominating, high quality football?!

He's on that crack cocaine

 

[Big Ben Foster]

The calamity results he’s served up this season. Genuinely impressive no joke:

- Arsenal (A) - 90th minute winner to win 2-1 gets ruled out and we lose 3-1. Calamity.
- Galatasaray (H) - 1-0 up and dominating. 2-1 up with 15 mins to go. End up losing 3-2 at OT in the CL group stage. Almost unheard of.
- Copenhagen (A) - 2-0 up in the 45th minute then go in at half time at 2-2. 3-2 up in the 80th minute then end up losing 4-3. Complete shambles.
- Galatasaray (A) - 2-0 up. 3-1 up. Draw 3-3.
- Fulham (H) - 1-0 down then equalise in the last minute to draw 1-1. Rather than completing the classic United comeback they go up the other end and score to win 2-1 at OT.
- Brentford (A) - Winning goal in the 96th minute to win 1-0 but still end up drawing 1-1. Genuinely impressive.
- Chelsea (A) - Record breaking levels of calamity. 3-2 up in the 99th minute and lose 4-3. Would be hard to do deliberately.

This is the mentality he’s installed. What’s next seriously? He’s only going to go and lose to Coventry in the cup. It’s not just the bad results, as I said the way we are finding ways to lose is genuinely remarkable. Although when you combine it with getting battered home and away to City, home to Bournemouth etc. then there’s no argument for him to keep his job.

Incredible. He's not a winner, it's that simple. Not cut out for this level.

 

[gajender]

It’s fun to pretend you can have it both ways but if history has been any guide then we know our new managers don’t make dramatic moves to remove a lot of existing players - particularly not high-profile ones

Would love to be proven wrong, don’t think I will be

Isn't the whole point of new structure is to reduce the role of manager to just head coach with limited role in recruitment and selling of players .

 

[git_united]

The calamity results he’s served up this season. Genuinely impressive no joke:

- Arsenal (A) - 90th minute winner to win 2-1 gets ruled out and we lose 3-1. Calamity.
- Galatasaray (H) - 1-0 up and dominating. 2-1 up with 15 mins to go. End up losing 3-2 at OT in the CL group stage. Almost unheard of.
- Copenhagen (A) - 2-0 up in the 45th minute then go in at half time at 2-2. 3-2 up in the 80th minute then end up losing 4-3. Complete shambles.
- Galatasaray (A) - 2-0 up. 3-1 up. Draw 3-3.
- Fulham (H) - 1-0 down then equalise in the last minute to draw 1-1. Rather than completing the classic United comeback they go up the other end and score to win 2-1 at OT.
- Brentford (A) - Winning goal in the 96th minute to win 1-0 but still end up drawing 1-1. Genuinely impressive.
- Chelsea (A) - Record breaking levels of calamity. 3-2 up in the 99th minute and lose 4-3. Would be hard to do deliberately.

This is the mentality he’s installed. What’s next seriously? He’s only going to go and lose to Coventry in the cup. It’s not just the bad results, as I said the way we are finding ways to lose is genuinely remarkable. Although when you combine it with getting battered home and away to City, home to Bournemouth etc. then there’s no argument for him to keep his job.

Of course there is: sacking him is not free and cheaper to let his contract run out; he’s won a trophy and might win another one so he has earned some time; too much inconsistency in the line ups to assess properly where this season could have gone (I bet Onana and Bruno are the only constants in the spine across all those calamitous endings).