Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[Oscar Bonavena]

I don't think "good work in the PL" cuts it to be Manchester United manager. It shouldn't anymore, after Moyes.

We need hungry young managers with a proven track record of success domestically and/ or in Europe. Like what Chelsea got with Mourinho, City with Pep and Liverpool with Klopp.

Alonso (OK unlikely due to his Scouse connections), Tuchel, Nagelsman, even Zidane or Amorim as outside shouts.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Honestly at this point it's becoming clear that INEOS have a similar decision making ability to the Glazers. If they haven't seen enough to know that this is completely unacceptable to a club like United, and they are fine with being a laughing stock then I would suggest that they don't appreciate what it means to be a big club.

What has been consistent for United since saf left:

- overpaying for players

- extending contracts of players to retain book value but nothing to do with what the team needs or a manager wants

- buying players who are not a manager/club priority

- buying players cause you can , not because they are necessarily part of any plan

- players downing tools

- players struggling when expectations grow

- players working less then opponents

- player drama regularly

- players stuck or kept at club when manager/player want them to leave

- at least one position in the team horribly under covered

- club facilities that some of our senior players have said are basically not up to standard

I’m sure there’s more but the compounded effect of all these things make any managers job far more difficult before a penny is spent. The club poorly spending 400 million on top of that needs to be considered when factoring in all these variables.

INEOs have actually stated this very thing, that all United managers have been undermined by this dysfunction. So for them to just take over a month ago and sack ETH immediately wouldn’t Indicate change , it would only indicate the same. Easiest and quickest thing in the world is to change manager that can feel like change.

Id argue that they’ve taken a very reflective approach to this.

 

[Fortitude]

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Since systematisation took hold in the mid-60s, football has always been about space, but the orthodoxy has always been that it was about creating it for yourself and denying it to the opposition. But Ten Hag has disrupted all that. He’s through the looking-glass. What, he’s asked, if you give the opposition space? Elite-level players are used to being put under pressure, they’re used to being closed down, they’re used to opponents pressing. Space alarms them. It makes them uneasy. It makes them think too much.

Amid the cavernous vaults of United’s midfield, their fears and doubts echo unnervingly. And so they miss. They can’t handle it when it’s too easy for them. Forget positionism, relationism, counter-pressing and the rest: this is the future. Ten Hag has invented inverted pressing.

It’s not just Liverpool who have found United’s weird openness hard to deal with. In the past 14 games, United have conceded 308 shots. That’s 22 per game, and yet United have lost only three of those matches. A rough rule of thumb over football history is that nine shots equal a goal: United in effect are giving away almost 2.5 goals per game, and yet in those 14 games they’re leaking an average of just 1.71.

And

The referee Anthony Taylor made as many interceptions in the game (two) as United’s central midfield trio between them.

Tragic that we’re a laughing stock with humorous articles hitting their mark and factual sign offs like you’ve quoted compounding. And it’ll be the exact same next game out.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

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Who the feck is Insider United?

But I couldn't help but notice that the Talk of the Devils podcast were incredibly positive about Ten Hag. Much more than they have usually been in recent months. Maybe everyone's been told that Ten Hag is staying on for another season and they need to play nice otherwise they won't get their mince pies at Christmas?

 

[stevoc]

Ten Hag has signed 12+ players? He has? Because I think it's only really fair to judge him on the players that can play football for him. At present, that's Onana, Antony, Hojland, Eriksen and Casemiro. Mount shortly, but he is obviously not being rushed back after being injured all year. That's 6 players. Or are you blaming him for not bring on Sabitzer, Reguilon and Weghorst yesterday? I mean FFS why didn't he bring on Malacia when it was clear AWB was fading? What kind of manager is this! You know who coudl really have helped counter the press? Martinez. But ETH is too stupid to get him on the pitch for some reason.

I'm not sure how many times it has to be hammered home: the only reason Manchester United have spent so much under ETH is because the hierarchy is absolutely world class at being sh*t at transfers. All of ETH's first summer, it was clear he needed support, but they refused to budge. Then after losing and desperate to save face, they overspent massively on Antony and randomly bought Casemiro, presumably at the behest of his agent. Neither of those things should be a stick to beat ETH with.

Clearly we've not scored enough goals from the CF position this season. Is that:
a. ETH's fault for having terrible coaching
b. The fact we have an inexperienced 20 year-old as literally the only striker in the squad

Yeah at present, but he's been here for 2 years mate. The injury excuse only stretches so far, it can explain results to an extent but not the performances nor the suicidal tactics.

I'll go with C, coaching that has lead to us looking unable to control most games and create very little chances most games for our centre forward. And D, deciding to go into this season with only an inexperienced 20 year old Striker and a perma crock Martial as options up front.

And for what it's worth here are his signings that are still here.

Malacia
Eriksen
Casemiro
Amrabat
Mount
Martinez
Antony
Hojlund
Onana
Bayindir
Evans

 

[Sarni]

Who the feck is Insider United?

But I couldn't help but notice that the Talk of the Devils podcast were incredibly positive about Ten Hag. Much more than they have usually been in recent months. Maybe everyone's been told that Ten Hag is staying on for another season and they need to play nice otherwise they won't get their mince pies at Christmas?

I think his stock is very high here and it will actually be INEOS trying to convince him to stay and sign a new contract by making certain commitments over squad building etc rather than him striving to keep his job in the Summer. There’s very little indication that his position is even in danger and I honestly think he’s as safe as it gets. This man knows how to talk the talk and will have got INEOS to believe in his vision and trust the process.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

I think his stock is very high here and it will actually be INEOS trying to convince him to stay and sign a new contract by making certain commitments over squad building etc rather than him striving to keep his job in the Summer. There’s very little indication that his position is even in danger and I honestly think he’s as safe as it gets. This man knows how to talk the talk and will have got INEOS to believe in his vision and trust the process.

Considering how the players haven't all set fire to Old Trafford like we've seen happen previously I believe you.

 

[hobbers]

It was him or Poch no?

I knew I forgot someone.

 

[hobbers]

Maybe everyone's been told that Ten Hag is staying on for another season and they need to play nice otherwise they won't get their mince pies at Christmas?

If the club have made a definitive decision on that now, while key players are on gardening leave, then our new owners would be confirmed cretins.

 

[DWelbz19]

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Since systematisation took hold in the mid-60s, football has always been about space, but the orthodoxy has always been that it was about creating it for yourself and denying it to the opposition. But Ten Hag has disrupted all that. He’s through the looking-glass. What, he’s asked, if you give the opposition space? Elite-level players are used to being put under pressure, they’re used to being closed down, they’re used to opponents pressing. Space alarms them. It makes them uneasy. It makes them think too much.

Amid the cavernous vaults of United’s midfield, their fears and doubts echo unnervingly. And so they miss. They can’t handle it when it’s too easy for them. Forget positionism, relationism, counter-pressing and the rest: this is the future. Ten Hag has invented inverted pressing.

It’s not just Liverpool who have found United’s weird openness hard to deal with. In the past 14 games, United have conceded 308 shots. That’s 22 per game, and yet United have lost only three of those matches. A rough rule of thumb over football history is that nine shots equal a goal: United in effect are giving away almost 2.5 goals per game, and yet in those 14 games they’re leaking an average of just 1.71.

And

The referee Anthony Taylor made as many interceptions in the game (two) as United’s central midfield trio between them.

fecks me off so much that we've reached a point where these football hipster wankers are having a xpected Jolly-up on our account.

 

[Berbaclass]

Who the feck is Insider United?

But I couldn't help but notice that the Talk of the Devils podcast were incredibly positive about Ten Hag. Much more than they have usually been in recent months. Maybe everyone's been told that Ten Hag is staying on for another season and they need to play nice otherwise they won't get their mince pies at Christmas?

They seem to have a pretty accurate source at the club. Regularly posting about player news etc.

Can’t remember them being wrong but I’m sure someone will correct me.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Who the feck is Insider United?

Sounds like some kid who sits on discord 24/7

 

[glazed]

Also it's not really true to state that defenders are too slow to play a high line, at top level even slow defenders are fast enough.

Have you seen Harry Maguire trying to keep pace with someone? It's not pretty.

 

[Blood Mage]

Tragic that we’re a laughing stock with humorous articles hitting their mark and factual sign offs like you’ve quoted compounding. And it’ll be the exact same next game out.

The worst thing is ETH doesn't see an issue with it and thinks we're dominating games. The man has lost his mind.

 

[DJ_21]

All the injuries this season as actually made a bit of positivity come out of it… without the injuries we wouldn’t have seen Mainoo play and stake a claim in the first team, we wouldn’t have seen the young CB who played against Liverpool, and he looks a baller aswell. So the injuries as opened the door for young players to step up which they have. Once we improve this team blended in with the youth players we’ll be sorted.

 

[Stadjer]

All the injuries this season as actually made a bit of positivity come out of it… without the injuries we wouldn’t have seen Mainoo play and stake a claim in the first team, we wouldn’t have seen the young CB who played against Liverpool, and he looks a baller aswell. So the injuries as opened the door for young players to step up which they have. Once we improve this team blended in with the youth players we’ll be sorted.

I think Mainoo was always going to get his minutes this season based on how involved he was in the pre season. Likely less minutes if Mount and Casemiro had been fit the whole season but i do think he was always part of the plan.

 

[wilkie1990]

Yeah at present, but he's been here for 2 years mate. The injury excuse only stretches so far, it can explain results to an extent but not the performances nor the suicidal tactics.

I'll go with C, coaching that has lead to us looking unable to control most games and create very little chances most games for our centre forward. And D, deciding to go into this season with only an inexperienced 20 year old Striker and a perma crock Martial as options up front.

And for what it's worth here are his signings that are still here.

Malacia
Eriksen
Casemiro
Amrabat
Mount
Martinez
Antony
Hojlund
Onana
Bayindir
Evans

This is interesting, as its not something I have given much thought to but from that list apart from Onana and Evans haven’t most of these been out injured more than they have been available this season?

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Well maybe you have to give time and patience to find out?

Two years without clear direction of play style. Defence is still all over the place. Questionable tactics, failure to see off games. Under performing players are still favourites and plays every game. Lets don't forget his signings. Holding on to him longer will not make him a top manager.

 

[DJ_21]

I think Mainoo was always going to get his minutes this season based on how involved he was in the pre season. Likely less minutes if Mount and Casemiro had been fit the whole season but i do think he was always part of the plan.

Youngsters get involved in pre season every single year. If we had a fit squad this season I doubt he plays many games. We’ve had managers that stick to the same line up and I think ETH would have. He wouldn’t have risked it I don’t think and he’d have stuck with more experienced players. Luckily that was forced out of his hands and we’ve now found a star. Each manager we’ve had has brought their own young player up and Garnacho was ETH… now he has potentially 2 maybe 3 coming into the 1st team.

 

[JPRouve]

Have you seen Harry Maguire trying to keep pace with someone? It's not pretty.

Yes, I have seen Maguire match the pace of many attackers on mid to long distances, it's not pretty but isn't actually that slow. Maguire's issue is his lack of agility which creates his inability to keep up on short distances and close quarters. The other issue with Maguire is that he often misreads his teammates alignment and destroys the offside trap, he has the bad habit of being a couple of steps too high or too low, though that kind of things are generally managed with good communication from others.

But that's kind of beside the point, the point is that you don't want your defenders to be involved in foot races against players that are launched and are receiving an ideal pass whether that defender is Rio Ferdinand or Van Buyten because 1v1 defending benefits the attacker. An effective pressing and good offside trap are the key for a high line, it's not the pace of the defenders.

 

[Bilbo]

The injury excuse only stretches so far

Shouldn't an injury excuse stretch for exactly as far as the amount of time it's having a notably detrimental effect? Or does it run out when people decide they are bored of it, or if it's gone on for so long that it's just become normal?

 

[Mr Pigeon]

They seem to have a pretty accurate source at the club. Regularly posting about player news etc.

Can’t remember them being wrong but I’m sure someone will correct me.

It's finally happened. The world is moving too fast for me. For my parents it was rock music, and for me it's all these new internet sources of info.

 

[Zumbi]

Yes, it’s a poor pass. But we created a defensive structure that meant Quansah, their least experienced CB, is playing a pass inside on his weaker foot as there are no other good options.

He doesn’t try the pass to Kelleher because his body position is wrong to attempt it, he’d be significantly off balance playing back to a keeper.

If you don’t want to look for and acknowledge that defending helped create these conditions then again you either don’t understand a defensive structure and how it’s designed, or you do and are deliberately ignoring it.

It’s a bit like chess. You don’t checkmate someone in one move. You get the pieces on the board in the right position so that when your opponent makes a mistake, you can move.

This take is honestly just lauaghable when you consider the fact that this “defensive structure” is leaving us languishing in the league, and conceding record numbers of goal attempts against us.

Even if you could attribute this to a defensive structure and not just an errant pass, there is an absolute mountain of evidence that shows this same defensive structure is leaving us wide open in all the other key areas of the pitch, and we keep losing and drawing games because if it.

If we’re looking at this like a game of chess, Ten Hag’s playing style is regularly resulting in key pieces being in the wrong board positions, and we’re suffering an awful league campaign because of it. We’re certainly not check mating anyone - even many of our wins have been fortuitous.

 

[stevoc]

Shouldn't an injury excuse stretch for exactly as far as the amount of time it's having a notably detrimental effect? Or does it run out when people decide they are bored of it, or if it's gone on for so long that it's just become normal?

You tell me mate you cut out the rest of that sentence.

For context

Yeah at present, but he's been here for 2 years mate. The injury excuse only stretches so far, it can explain results to an extent but not the performances nor the suicidal tactics.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

The injury excuse is completely farcical honestly, yesterday I believe that we started with atleast 8/9 of our usual starters and yet in the first half we didn’t have a shot while Liverpool had 15

 

[Remember the geese]

Youngsters get involved in pre season every single year. If we had a fit squad this season I doubt he plays many games. We’ve had managers that stick to the same line up and I think ETH would have. He wouldn’t have risked it I don’t think and he’d have stuck with more experienced players. Luckily that was forced out of his hands and we’ve now found a star. Each manager we’ve had has brought their own young player up and Garnacho was ETH… now he has potentially 2 maybe 3 coming into the 1st team.

He was always getting games. Not as many as he has obviously because ideally Mount would have stayed fit, however, Mainoo has always been a quality talent and would certainly have been utilised.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Who the feck is Insider United?

But I couldn't help but notice that the Talk of the Devils podcast were incredibly positive about Ten Hag. Much more than they have usually been in recent months. Maybe everyone's been told that Ten Hag is staying on for another season and they need to play nice otherwise they won't get their mince pies at Christmas?

Mood always gets a lot more positive about him after a single decent result. Although I’d personally only call the draw at home to Liverpool “par”

It’ll be toxic again, and he’ll be shite again if they drop points to Bournemouth

 

[Beachryan]

Yeah at present, but he's been here for 2 years mate. The injury excuse only stretches so far, it can explain results to an extent but not the performances nor the suicidal tactics.

I'll go with C, coaching that has lead to us looking unable to control most games and create very little chances most games for our centre forward. And D, deciding to go into this season with only an inexperienced 20 year old Striker and a perma crock Martial as options up front.

You really think that ETH wanted to go into the season with just Hojland and Martial? That he wanted to wait the whole summer for a midfielder only to be forced to do a loan of Amrabat at the minute?

If there was a situation where I could see an obvious way to use the players available to him to be significantly better, I'd be just as much 'ETH-out' as anyone else. But from where I sit, he cleared an absolute ton of dead-wood which needed doing, and hasn't come close to replacing the pure numbers of first teamers one needs to survive an injury crisis, which he's had literally all season. There were very real signs last season that we were moving in the right direction, which very much disappeared once Casemiro's form dropped off a cliff.

We had the third best defence in the league last season, under ETH. It's not like he doesn't know how to do it. I just don't believe it's possible when you're able to field your first choice back 4 precisely once, in an entire season. So he's thought, f*ck it, if we can't defend we need to score, and to score we need numbers forward.

Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojland have been bedded into the squad, our youth setup finally looks excellent and we should start to reap those benefits and ETH has been ruthless so I assume this will continue with players like Varane, Casemiro and Eriksen who are clearly no longer able to play at this intensity.

I see almost no benefit to firing him now.

 

[glazed]

An effective pressing and good offside trap are the key for a high line, it's not the pace of the defenders.

Call me old fashioned but I like defenders who can run faster than attackers and also match their acceleration. It's not everything but it is rather important.

 

[lysglimt]

The only real argument I have for ETH - is that he has turned Mainoo, Garnacho and to a certain degree Hojlund and Kambwala inte very good players. And with that the youngsters we have coming from U18s - that could be beneficial for United in the long wrong. So it's a heavy argument - but it's the only argument. Oh yes - and I think we could turn into a quite decent side if we just got one quality defensive midfielder

 

[Fletchageddon]

He's had FOUR windows to do that and only bought Martinez who is a crock. He also refuses to play decent prospects like Amad and let Fernandez go on loan when we were low on LBs. Fergie came with a reputation of turning Aberdeen into league winners and UEFA cup winners. His first season, he came in the middle after Big Ron was sacked. Despite the league finishes, he was changimg the culture of the club and initiating reforms in the academy and scouting. What has ETH done on that level? Nothing. It's being done by INEOS.

People need to stop comparing him to Fergie because it is not the same.

It took fergie 7 years to win a league.

How many for current managers like Klopp and Arteta? Pep doesn't count because of the 115 outstanding charges. But it took him two years to win a league, even after ten years of that club spending like mad and getting the structure for him to succeed in place.

Ten Hag doesn't have the structure at the moment. He has chaos above him.

3 finals in 2 years a 3rd and 6th whilst blooding through youngsters and getting rid of dead woof and toxic assets is great by my book.

 

[bond19821982]

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Since systematisation took hold in the mid-60s, football has always been about space, but the orthodoxy has always been that it was about creating it for yourself and denying it to the opposition. But Ten Hag has disrupted all that. He’s through the looking-glass. What, he’s asked, if you give the opposition space? Elite-level players are used to being put under pressure, they’re used to being closed down, they’re used to opponents pressing. Space alarms them. It makes them uneasy. It makes them think too much.

Amid the cavernous vaults of United’s midfield, their fears and doubts echo unnervingly. And so they miss. They can’t handle it when it’s too easy for them. Forget positionism, relationism, counter-pressing and the rest: this is the future. Ten Hag has invented inverted pressing.

It’s not just Liverpool who have found United’s weird openness hard to deal with. In the past 14 games, United have conceded 308 shots. That’s 22 per game, and yet United have lost only three of those matches. A rough rule of thumb over football history is that nine shots equal a goal: United in effect are giving away almost 2.5 goals per game, and yet in those 14 games they’re leaking an average of just 1.71.

And

The referee Anthony Taylor made as many interceptions in the game (two) as United’s central midfield trio between them.

Man, that's one way of glorifying our biggest weakness

 

[stevoc]

You really think that ETH wanted to go into the season with just Hojland and Martial? That he wanted to wait the whole summer for a midfielder only to be forced to do a loan of Amrabat at the minute?

Well he should have managed his budget better then to make it stretch further. Because if one of the worlds richest clubs with one of footballs biggest transfer budgets isn't enough for him then he's going to struggle anywhere he goes.

If there was a situation where I could see an obvious way to use the players available to him to be significantly better, I'd be just as much 'ETH-out' as anyone else. But from where I sit, he cleared an absolute ton of dead-wood which needed doing, and hasn't come close to replacing the pure numbers of first teamers one needs to survive an injury crisis, which he's had literally all season. There were very real signs last season that we were moving in the right direction, which very much disappeared once Casemiro's form dropped off a cliff.

One obvious change would be to get them working on closing down the opposition and not alowing them to have 25-30 shots at our goal virtually unmolested every game.

We had the third best defence in the league last season, under ETH. It's not like he doesn't know how to do it. I just don't believe it's possible when you're able to field your first choice back 4 precisely once, in an entire season. So he's thought, f*ck it, if we can't defend we need to score, and to score we need numbers forward.

Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojland have been bedded into the squad, our youth setup finally looks excellent and we should start to reap those benefits and ETH has been ruthless so I assume this will continue with players like Varane, Casemiro and Eriksen who are clearly no longer able to play at this intensity.

If that was his plan then it hasn't worked as we're shit going forward as well. Only 6 teams (including 4 of the bottom 5) have scored less than us.

I see almost no benefit to firing him now.

I see no benefit to keeping him at this stage.

 

[stevoc]

This is interesting, as its not something I have given much thought to but from that list apart from Onana and Evans haven’t most of these been out injured more than they have been available this season?

Mount, Malacia and Martinez definitely. Maybe Casemiro as well.

 

[Bilbo]

You tell me mate you cut out the rest of that sentence.

For context

I think it does somewhat explain the suicidal tactics - which are a blast by the way. Long may it continue.

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

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[JPRouve]

Call me old fashioned but I like defenders who can run faster than attackers and also match their acceleration. It's not everything but it is rather important.

It's not old fashioned, it's just removed from reality especially if you think that it's old fashioned. Defenders are very rarely faster than attackers and they will rarely match their acceleration because they don't even start from a similar stance.

 

[stevoc]

I think it does somewhat explain the suicidal tactics - which are a blast by the way. Long may it continue.

It doesn't for me. Fair play if you're enjoying it though.

 

[Leftback99]

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Muppetiers pretending they know what's really going on but others are making it up

 

[Fortitude]

The worst thing is ETH doesn't see an issue with it and thinks we're dominating games. The man has lost his mind.

I think the worst thing is it's gotten to the stage national publications intended for a global audience are comfortable enough to openly deride us for public consumption and clicks with even us as a fanbase knowing it's dead on. That's sickening.

The higher ups at the club get to read this stuff too. I wonder how it's received.

Ten Hag can have his view and it's not particularly important if he's so entrenched he won't change; it's up to others to put him out of his misery.