Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[Oranges038]

Lindelof's a back-up, Dalot's just had arguable his best season, Shaw last season arguably likewise. Without Rashford's goals last season would Ten Hag have even won a trophy or came 3rd? McTom is another Ten Hag favourite this season.



If the problem is systemic and is present over years regardless of the players, then what will removing certain players achieve in and of itself?

We've already culled the squad form the Solskjaer era, it didn't really help.

The only reason some those players are still at the club, is because the club puts them on stupid contracts that nobody else will ever match so the players will never leave until they have no other option but to leave on a free.


That bolded is not really true. If you take out youth players that were at the club already that ETH has promoted, 5 out of the other 8 starters yesterday have been at the club since before he arrived. Only 7 of the players available yesterday were actually signed by ETH, the rest were youth players or signed before he arrived.

Genuinely think people are kidding themselves if they think much of this squad is of any use going forward, aside from the young players, Martinez, Onana, Mount, Hojlund and maybe Rashford. The rest lf the squad has no use beyond another year.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

100% but we give managers way too many chances despite popular opinion seeming to be we've sacked too many.

For how bad we've been post Fergie I'd argue we should have had even more managers in that timr

Yup, every manager we've had post Fergie should have been sacked multiple times over, and all of them would have been sacked much earlier if they had been in charge under similar circumstances at Real, Barca, Bayern, Chelsea, City, Juve, the Milan clubs, etc.

 

[mu4c_20le]

If he does go I appreciate that he helped to destroy Liverpool this season. My manager.

I'd give more credit to the players for that tbh

 

[USREDEVIL]

Wtf, I just woke up and see this guys still in the job

Go back to sleep

 

[Gavinb33]

He got sacked from Chelsea whilst looking out of his depth and even worse than ETH.

Chelsea have really set the world on fire since he left

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Go back to sleep

Until tomorrow morning hopefully?

 

[stevoc]

The only reason some those players are still at the club, is because the club puts them on stupid contracts that nobody else will ever match so the players will never leave until they have no other option but to leave on a free.

I don't disagree but I think that doesn't happen in a vacuum either. We end up giving some players inflated contracts to keep them or attract them because we've struggled so much in consistently qualifying for the CL the last decade.

That bolded is not really true. If you take out youth players that were at the club already that ETH has promoted, 5 out of the other 8 starters yesterday have been at the club since before he arrived. Only 7 of the players available yesterday were actually signed by ETH, the rest were youth players or signed before he arrived.

Genuinely think people are kidding themselves if they think much of this squad is of any use going forward, aside from the young players, Martinez, Onana, Mount, Hojlund and maybe Rashford. The rest lf the squad has no use beyond another year.

Well, we've sold or released 20+ senior players since Ten Hag arrived. We only have about 10 players from Ole's last squad 2 years ago left. If that's not culling a squad then I don't know what is. Ten Hag's first choice XI with everyone fit would probably consist of at least 5 players who were already at the club when he came. That's his choice, he'd had enough time and money to buy virtually a new first XI if he'd wanted to.

So much turnover in the squad and bringing so many new players in, in such a short space of time hasn't really had the positive effect some hoped it would. It didn't work the last time we tried it to the same scale under Van Gaal either, when he was allowed to do similar.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Maybe i'm insane, but i am not against giving ETH one season under the new structure if we are actually thinking of Potter or Southgate.

 

[lsd]

Maybe i'm insane, but i am not against giving ETH one season under the new structure if we are actually thinking of Potter or Southgate.

You're insane

 

[Atheist]

Arsenal fans are pissed off at Arteta for possibly bottling the title but in the meantime we have fans who want to reward this guy another year. Really unbelievable how low our standards have fallen.

 

[Dec9003]

Maybe i'm insane, but i am not against giving ETH one season under the new structure if we are actually thinking of Potter or Southgate.

I don’t want Potter, but he has a much better understanding of the Premier League than Ten Hag.

 

[Woziak]

Maybe i'm insane, but i am not against giving ETH one season under the new structure if we are actually thinking of Potter or Southgate.

I’d rather we sack him tomorrow and bring in Ruud as Interim coach, his ego will make him think he can get 7 or 8 wins and get the job full time.

 

[Red Dreams]

Is this poetry?

Still gutted about your Camel Dung sellers not buying the club?

Do not bother to lie.

 

[Pscholes18]

If Potter couldn't hack it at Chelsea, how's he going to hack it at Utd?

 

[Pronewbie]

I don't understand how he can set us up much better last season especially in midfield compared to this season's dross. Maybe it's just certain personnel carrying us through - a fitter Casemiro and Martinez were certainly a big help.

His overall transfer business is the worst part of his tenure though.

My biggest concern if we let him go (aside from his replacement) is the risk that we get another season of underperformers staying on when really, I'd like to see us sell most of our squad especially the top earners.

 

[USREDEVIL]

I don’t want Potter, but he has a much better understanding of the Premier League than Ten Hag.

Meh, i think at this point ETH knows enough. Potter failed at Chelsea and i see too many similarities between us and Chelsea. However, i as everyone else am hoping those similarities in bad recruitment are eliminated under INEOS. So maybe it would be different for him.

 

[Sarni]

Arsenal fans are pissed off at Arteta for possibly bottling the title but in the meantime we have fans who want to reward this guy another year. Really unbelievable how low our standards have fallen.

I don’t think Arsenal fans want Arteta out but West Ham fans are increasingly annoyed with Moyes and they are pretty much in the same exact spot as us - well off top 4, some decent one off results and a trophy last season that didn’t seem to cloud their judgment nearly as much as League Cup (an inferior trophy) has for United fans and board. We have lower standards than West Ham.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

13 points off 4th now with 1 game in hand, its embarrasing to be in such a sorry state with a manager who is well out of his depth with a new 27% share holder who made loads of claims about what he was going to do but has so far failed to deliver.

Ah yes, all those examples of partial takeovers in the latter half of a season changing the fortunes of teams..

 

[Hugh Jass]

13 points off 4th now with 1 game in hand, its embarrasing to be in such a sorry state with a manager who is well out of his depth with a new 27% share holder who made loads of claims about what he was going to do but has so far failed to deliver.

Jesus wept. Rome wasnt built in a day.

 

[Max_United]

My biggest concern if we let him go (aside from his replacement) is the risk that we get another season of underperformers staying on when really, I'd like to see us sell most of our squad especially the top earners.

I never understood this argument to be honest, although it is being constantly brought up. Maybe you could explain the thinking here and the evidence to back it up? My counterarguments are:

1. With new footballing structure on top of manager this decisions will not be up to manager anyway, so the extent of possible clear out should not be that dependent on the manager.

2. Even under “old” structure we had sizeable clear outs in the first few windows under all of LvG, Jose and Ole. There is no evidence that everyone automatically got a chance under new manager. If anything it was often the case that new manager was happy to get rid of previous manager’s signings, like Jose got rid of several of LvG’s signings which would have likely stayed had LvG not been sacked. In this case my guess is that the new manager would be more willing to get rid of the likes of Antony (FFP permitting) then EtH. ETH would likely hold on to him hoping he comes good since if Antony sold at a huge loss - it would make EtH look bad.

3. Yes, you could argue that clear outs were not big enough, but a big clear out of 10+ players is unrealistic anyway, be it under EtH or new manager.

4. The likes of Rashford and Shaw are among our top earners and they signed new contract under EtH so with his blessing. Some of top earners like Casemiro were signed under him. Do you really think he is more likely to push to get rid of them than new manager?

In short, people act as if EtH is some sort of a guarantor of a continued clear out, more so than new footballing people or new manager. I just completely fail to see the evidence/logic behind that

 

[Robbie Boy]

I don’t think Arsenal fans want Arteta out but West Ham fans are increasingly annoyed with Moyes and they are pretty much in the same exact spot as us - well off top 4, some decent one off results and a trophy last season that didn’t seem to cloud their judgment nearly as much as League Cup (an inferior trophy) has for United fans and board. We have lower standards than West Ham.

Standards have been gradually lowered for over a decade culminating with where we're at now. It hasn't been sudden.

And yes, West Ham fans rightfully want rid of Moyes. Crazy that our own standards were already rock bottom when a EL Final and a 2nd place finish were the holy grail. West Ham actually won a European cup last season, and are on course for a much better league finish than last season. Yet, their fans aren't deluded enough to think that makes everything rosy. Our fans have been passive and meek for a long, long time now.

 

[stevoc]

I don't understand how he can set us up much better last season especially in midfield compared to this season's dross. Maybe it's just certain personnel carrying us through - a fitter Casemiro and Martinez were certainly a big help.

His overall transfer business is the worst part of his tenure though.

My biggest concern if we let him go (aside from his replacement) is the risk that we get another season of underperformers staying on when really, I'd like to see us sell most of our squad especially the top earners.

How long do you think that would take?

 

[soapythecat]

13 points off 4th now with 1 game in hand, its embarrasing to be in such a sorry state with a manager who is well out of his depth with a new 27% share holder who made loads of claims about what he was going to do but has so far failed to deliver.

Give your head a wobble - how are INEOS group supposed to act when the structure they are trying to put in place is getting put together? Failing to deliver after 5 minutes in the job for Christ sake. What have they promised you that you haven’t seen yet out of interest?

 

[Rista]

My biggest concern if we let him go (aside from his replacement) is the risk that we get another season of underperformers staying on when really, I'd like to see us sell most of our squad especially the top earners.

What reason do we have to believe that him staying somehow changes that? Especially if we also think transfer business has been the worst part of his tenure. After spending 400 million we have just as many if not more underperformers on big wages.

We are not selling most of our squad. It is not happening either way.

 

[Robbie Boy]

You're insane

 

[horsechoker]

Has never bottled a Premier League #respec

 

[Robbie Boy]

Has never bottled a Premier League #respec

And he's too hipster for a midfield.

feck it, get him to sign da thing!

 

[Pronewbie]

I never understood this argument to be honest, although it is being constantly brought up. Maybe you could explain the thinking here and the evidence to back it up? My counterarguments are:

1. With new footballing structure on top of manager this decisions will not be up to manager anyway, so the extent of possible clear out should not be that dependent on the manager.

2. Even under “old” structure we had sizeable clear outs in the first few windows under all of LvG, Jose and Ole. There is no evidence that everyone automatically got a chance under new manager. If anything it was often the case that new manager was happy to get rid of previous manager’s signings, like Jose got rid of several of LvG’s signings which would have likely stayed had LvG not been sacked. In this case my guess is that the new manager would be more willing to get rid of the likes of Antony (FFP permitting) then EtH. ETH would likely hold on to him hoping he comes good since if Antony sold at a huge loss - it would make EtH look bad.

3. Yes, you could argue that clear outs were not big enough, but a big clear out of 10+ players is unrealistic anyway, be it under EtH or new manager.

4. The likes of Rashford and Shaw are among our top earners and they signed new contract under EtH so with his blessing. Some of top earners like Casemiro were signed under him. Do you really think he is more likely to push to get rid of them than new manager?

In short, people act as if EtH is some sort of a guarantor of a continued clear out, more so than new footballing people or new manager. I just completely fail to see the evidence/logic behind that

1 + 2. When a new manager comes in there's a chance they give our supposedly great but inconsistent players another season to prove their worth, no? Happy to be proven wrong. Off the top of my head Rooney would have been sold if SAF stayed, Pogba and Martial under Mourinho.

3. Don't think I said that as that'd be unrealistic based on historical market trends, although I'd already be scouting and potentially tapping up replacements for most of the first team.

4. Based on his transfer record, I would drastically reduce ETH's role on to influencer in the RACI matrix. if he cannot accept that role he should leave.

I don't see it as a guarantee but more an increase in probability. I really want to see us clear-out many of our bigger players that a new manager may want to hold onto just because he doesn't know enough about the player (ability, adaptability, chemistry, personality etc.). I see it as a reason why we don't sell well. Of course, this is all conjecture since we don't know what INEOS's plans are for the summer, or if a really good manager becomes available (no, Southgate and Potter do not count).

Edit: I just re-read my earlier post and I guess I should clarify that the clear-out/rebuild would realistically take a couple of seasons.

 

[Sarni]

Standards have been gradually lowered for over a decade culminating with where we're at now. It hasn't been sudden.

And yes, West Ham fans rightfully want rid of Moyes. Crazy that our own standards were already rock bottom when a EL Final and a 2nd place finish were the holy grail. West Ham actually won a European cup last season, and are on course for a much better league finish than last season. Yet, their fans aren't deluded enough to think that makes everything rosy. Our fans have been passive and meek for a long, long time now.

Agreed, we seemed to have standards of an EL quality team for years where achieving top 4 was considered success but it has now eroded to a point where we have virtually no standards at all anymore, not even of a decent mid-table side because even they expect to see decent, organized, consistent football. We are happy with basically anything now, no expectations whatsoever.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Agreed, we seemed to have standards of an EL quality team for years where achieving top 4 was considered success but it has now eroded to a point where we have virtually no standards at all anymore, not even of a decent mid-table side because even they expect to see decent, organized, consistent football. We are happy with basically anything now, no expectations whatsoever.

It's been a wild ride since Fergie retired, but feck me, I never expected a fanbase with such high standards - a decade later- would now gleefully accept the mediocrity we've seen in that timeframe.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

I was a fan of Potter at Brighton.

IIRC, he came across as slightly defeatist in his interviews at Chelsea which was not a good look for a manager at a big club.

But at the time of his sacking, I thought he was turning things around, Chelsea were playing better but where not taking their chances.

I would assume he learned a lot from that spell as Chelsea manager and would come back a better manager.

If ( and its a big If ) we sack ETH then I would not mind giving Potter a chance.

 

[Red Dreams]

Erik allowed our midfield to be over run.
Not for the first time.
I understand we have injuries.
But why play players who simply cannot tackle or hold the midfield.

 

[soapythecat]

Its them that is putting that stucture together and after 3 months they have failed to get a single person appointed and in place.

They have made the club look bad in the eyes of other clubs and their fans by approaching and unsettling other clubs staff and the whole Dan Ashworth affair is utterly embarrasing.



They have been in place 3 months and seemingly havent changed a thing, they are talking about building a stadium we cant afford while doing about the £1bn debt we have that is stopping us affording it.

They have stayed silent while the club is playing embarrasing football and if they had have sacked ETH after the Fulham embarrasment when they should have we might have actually still had a chance of finishing in the top 4 now.

Where is the transparency and the communication with the fan groups they were supposed to bring? We havent heard a peep out them in months other than that short sit-down interview SJR did in January where a lot of stuff wasnt even addressed.

I must have missed the bit where SJR said this would all be sorted by the end of the season.
You know structure (the one you want) takes them, effort and money. It was never going to be done ina few months. Why should they tell anyone how this is going, given the need to act discreetly and professionally. They can’t win with people who expect everyone to say yes when United click their fingers.

 

[Pyro19]

Remember where Xabi Alonso is within 18 months of joining Leverkusen and look at our manager

 

[Giggsy13]

Still gutted about your Camel Dung sellers not buying the club?

Do not bother to lie.

Who?

 

[Red Dreams]

Who?

I told you not to lie.

 

[Giggsy13]

I told you not to lie.

Is this poetry again?

 

[Red Dreams]

Is this poetry again?

I realize you are stupid.
But have the balls to answer.

 

[Giggsy13]

I realize you are stupid.
But have the balls to answer.

Strange way to hit on someone.

 

[idek2346]

So how come Liverpool can have brought Michael Edwards back, agreed a deal for the Technical Director from Bournemouth, and even reached an agreement with Saints over Jason Wilcox quickly and without any ridiculous drawb out saga yet SJR and his team have no one in place after 3 months?

You've answered your own question. How long has FSG owned Liverpool for?Compare that timeframe to Sir Jim's ownership stake in Man United of 3 months.

FSG have had multiple years to sort out internal processes and organizational structure whereas Jim has only had 3 months. I'm not here making excuses for Jim, as I do have my doubts. But comparing FSG to INEOS/SJR is like comparing apples to oranges...