I mean it's totally hypothetical and of course, you would say that because it fits with your agenda.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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You can if there isn't a unified vision within the club.
What is your point? you know the obvious difference between what you are comparing...
And let's be honest, most laughed at Liverpool paying that for a bloke in his mid 20's after 2 seasons at Southampton, coming from Celtic. Yes, he looked good but Klopp clearly elevated his levels to probably the best in the world at one point. This us rough because I hate the pair of them
Bottom of the CL group (a weak group too), out of one cup to Newcastle B team, 6th in the league and miles off top 4. What circumstances make this a decent job?
What's my agenda?
You're arguing in favour of Klopp so of course you're going to try and bend the narrative in the direction of him being some kind of miracle worker, plucking unknown £80 Million CB's and turning them into good players.
Next you'll be gushing about "Klopp's Kids" like Neville and co.
Good gaslighting.
He might be but it was always going to get worse.. and worse… and worse…. Until someone comes in and actually changes things. By change I mean ACTUALLY change things. It’s like a decaying tooth, the longer you leave it the worst it gets and the harder it becomes to fix. That’s united. Just getting further and further away from competing. Falling apart more by the year. Years of non existent investment and lack of structure and was always going to cost us eventually.
The reason I like him is because I’ve never seen a manager come to a club that’s so badly run at such a huge level and have to shovel so much shit. It’s been relentless and now the vultures are circling. For Me, it’s the most difficult job in football, Barr none. The media LOVE a United failure, they love to see us fail. They will pelt him and set up a narrative all day long. He’s literally doing the job of many people at this club, the culture, the set up.. all of it.. it’s piss Poor. It really is. This is a massive club, a massive task. You need the best of the best at all levels for us to be successful here.
Do we have anyone elite in footballing terms at the top of our tree? (Not including ineos appointments)? I don’t think we do.
It’s a sad state of affairs but hopefully ineos come in and offer a manager (whoever it may be) true support, time and guidance. That’s what it’s going to take.
No response, no worries pal
Unpopular opinion but I would keep him till next year.
But giving him a new contract at this stage is doubling down on a potential mistake.
Going into a season with an expiring contract is risky, yes, but not unheard of. But giving him another contract would be a very bad situation for the new ownership to put themselves in the way of. Sacking him 2 months into a season as a trend that is already visible continues having just handed him years on his contract gets them off to a very inauspicious start in terms of credibility.
I think the most sensible option is simply a fresh start. A manager the owners want, a fresh view on things, complete alignment. Everyone has clear lines of responsibility under the new staffing and they stand or fall on what they produce.
Still think ETH is a decent coach, he just got the job at a hard time and there's water under the bridge which is going to make recovery hard.
We weren't ever going for him anyway.I literally said none of what you wrote? Talking about a manager elevating a player equates to "plucking an unknown 80m CB". Mate I know a fair few don't seem to like you. Personally, I have no real issues. But when I see that kind of bad faith arguing and gaslighting, it leaves a sour taste. I don't engage with that nonsense.No response, no worries pal
50% win rate is decent job because we lost Martinez and Shaw ?
@Skills was right
This is just a thing our fans do.
I couldn't care less mate
Klopp is a good manager. Overrated. He's been well backed. End of story.
Yes I know. As have our managers. This wasn't the conversation though.
Yes and I explained the clear difference but you refuse to acknowledge it for whatever reason.
He was given the structure to succeed as well as the money. As us United fans know, money is shit without direction and purpose.
By resources do you mean money chucked at random players with no real footballing strategy or ideology? Let’s just get a hodge podge of random players and hope it sticks. Let’s go and sign players past their best for silly money and hope their experience works in our favour. Or perhaps, the best one, let’s sign a player from a much smaller club in a bang average league, currently on 80k a week and offer them 350k a week to play for us? While allowing them to not run or give a feck.
our resources have really been exceptional.
Completely disingenuous to suggest that is the extent of our issues.
So, it was the structure? It wasn't that Liverpool struck gold with a top class manager. What has structure got to do with a manager having the man management skills to elevate players? Did Fergie have a fantastic structure for his whole tenure? What makes you think a structure will make ETH a better manager?
I agree we need to restructure but we've also appointed managers in an absolutely directionless manner. I don't see how a structure will make everything better for ETH.
Wrong. My standard is we must be the best. We all want the club to win, everything. That’s really the underlying point. The success we really want isn’t measured by how many times you feck it up in season 2. It’s “are we the best again yet?”. The answer to that will be “no” for a good while yet.
I don’t think any manager could do better than Erik at the moment. Look at Poch. He was the other favourite for our job. They’re more fecked than us. Potter was another name, shite.
To do profoundly better than we have done so far is impossible. We don’t have the players. You must be able to see that.
Hardly surprising. Fans gave Moyes a standing ovation during his struggles.
United fans have a lot of patience for managers dude to how long SAF was at the club. This send off wouldn't happen at another top club.
Being very generous to ETH on this particular game, it looked like we were well set up in that first half, and we should have been ahead, when Onana gifted them a goal.
Nice to see him start Eriksen and not put AWB on the left. Casemiro worked out at CB as well. The bar is really low, but I’ll take these small positives.
Nice to see him start Eriksen and not put AWB on the left. Casemiro worked out at CB as well. The bar is really low, but I’ll take these small positives.
I'm being kind by not mentioning his own signings
He won me over. We won 4-2 at home against the worst side in the league. If he manages to win against the second worst side in the league in the next home game, i would give home a contract extension. Turning it around.
The wheels will fall off again in the last 4 games against good opposition, but i dont care. ETHs red army.
The wheels will fall off again in the last 4 games against good opposition, but i dont care. ETHs red army.
True but with those two fit for most of the season, it would be a completely different story. They are the two humdingers.
Amazing to see.
You can't be serious thinking no manager would do better than ETH
We have a +1 GD in the league
I truly don't understand some of you
We have literally done far better in previous seasons with other managers despite them also not being good enough
"Structure"
It feels like a low ability kindergarten class got taught a new word this year.
It feels like a low ability kindergarten class got taught a new word this year.
It's nauseating.
No, my statement "He was given the structure to succeed" means it is a combination of both.
Fergie is a one-off outlier. Football isn't like that anymore.
I didn't say it would make ETH a better manager, but I believe that getting the recruitment right is crucial in any successful club and the first step that any elite club needs to get right.
You agreed that our plan has been directionless but then went on to say that you don't see how giving it a direction would make it better. I think that is self-explanatory as to why it would be better no?
What was your point?
Was it that Klopp didn't have anything to do with VVD being so good because he was a sure thing at £80m?
Well I present Maguire as proof that isn't necessarily the case.
Indeed mate.And let's be honest, most laughed at Liverpool paying that for a bloke in his mid 20's after 2 seasons at Southampton, coming from Celtic. Yes, he looked good but Klopp clearly elevated his levels to probably the best in the world at one point. This us rough because I hate the pair of them
But yeah I must admit at the time I'd thought they'd went mad. Imagine paying £80m for a centreback and the subsequent embarrassment if he turned out to be not great or worse
Speaking from experience?
Yes, hopefully going forward it will improve things. But, it's also become some holy grail that some are pinning all their hopes on. We've been an absolute shambles for a long time, so it'll be interesting to see the direction the club takes with qualified people in key positions.
However, where we seem to differ is around our post-Fergie appointments. I think all of them have also been a problem. I don't think any have been good enough. Would a better run club have helped? Who knows. But the difference would be marginal at best imo.
Do you really need me to explain the difference in circumstance between the two signings to you?
It's true that I think we have to temper what is actually possible with these players. Maybe nobody would do substantially better in terms of actually competing for major honours, almost certainly true in fact, but probably a stretch to imagine nobody could have done any better for example. He's just one man of many good managers, no reason to suspect he has done the best that is possible, especially in the league and our dire CL campaign. So his performance could well be somewhere in between.
The issue for me is he has done things and continues to do things which really hurt his credibility to say this is the main we go forward with. What would we grasp onto as an owner to feel confidence about that? For me saying "who are the other candidates" is not reason enough, I would want to know the reasons why ETH is to remain too, he can't survive by default.
Strange tactical setups despite the same consistent leaks in our game. Nonsensical handling of the press which doesn't lend him much credibility or authority, that stuff does matter as a figurehead for the club. Odd signings which while this won't be his primary responsibility going forward do raise questions about some of his judgement. A couple of years of treading water and the players hearing that same voice associated with it, it could well be that a new voice is sufficient enough justification. I think a new manager alongside new owners that have chosen him is better rationale versus same manager by default just because there isn't a candidate leaping off the page.