Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[BenitoSTARR]

Here are the fachts:

2 players out injured = 9+ points

Therefore 6 players out injured = 27+ points

ETH nearly won the league without those injuries.

This one at least made me laugh.

Not quite my point @P-Ro but you understand that the level of injury experienced is likely to have cost us at least that?

 

[Malone_Post]

Fine margins. Every reason to expect that had our injuries not been so bad we could have got 4th.

Im reasonably confident that with a much lessor injury crisis we make up at least 9 points which would have gotten 4th.

I definitely believe the injuries we’ve suffered have cost us at least 9 (3 wins).

I will concede that had we not had the injuries we’ve had, while the clubs around us (mainly Chelsea, Newcastle & Spurs) had the same injuries they had, then yes we probably would have finished higher than 8th. Possibly even 4th.

But I also reckon if we didn’t have to play by the same rules as everyone else then we might have even won the league.

You see, if you want to take away our injuries in order to make the argument that without them we would have accumulated more points, you have to apply the same reasoning to all the other teams too. You can’t have United with no injury crisis vs other teams with injury crisis'. And that, right there, is where the whole argument falls apart.

 

[frostbite]

8th. Forget the excuses and just sack the loser. He is the worst manager post-SAF. If we keep him for another year, we are guaranteed to finish 10th with some other manager in the future, and some people will still find excuses, because there are always "reasons". After all, SAF finished 12th and 13th, right?

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

It’s very tiresome that you come into debates with condescending comments and also now threats.

You appear to have a particular issue with me and I don’t know why. My PMs are open.

I’ve said several times this season has been awful, several times that Ten Hag has made errors, several times that this isn’t good enough and needs improving urgently and several times that if he was sacked i would have no issue and back the next appointment INEOS make.

And I also happen to think injuries and other things beyond the control of Ten Hag have played a significant role and that it may not be the best idea to sack someone who is a good manager. We just have no idea if he can be a great one or what INEOS are looking for.

I think it’s very sad that you have to make half threats to people on the internet to make yourself feel whatever it is you’re trying to feel.

Your anger and disdain directed towards me over an opinion is concerning and I would recommend you address this sooner rather than later.

I have no issue debating my opinion, there are many respectable members on the CAF who disagree with me but do so in a good manner. You are not one of them.

I'll tell you what, buddy. I'll leave you to your reign of terror. It's something that brings you great joy. Why take that away.

I won't engage in any further interactions with you. Have a nice ebening.

 

[Redstain]

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I've been saying this for a while, the only way INEOS should keep Eth is if they absolutely feel in the short term he's winning the league.

If not (as the evidence strongly suggests) he needs to swiftly be moved on.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I will concede that had we not had the injuries we’ve had, while the clubs around us (mainly Chelsea, Newcastle & Spurs) had the same injuries they had, then yes we probably would have finished higher than 8th. Possibly even 4th.

But I also reckon if we didn’t have to play by the same rules as everyone else then we might have even won the league.

You see, if you want to take away our injuries in order to make the argument that without them we would have accumulated more points, you have to apply the same reasoning to all the other teams too. You can’t have United with no injury crisis vs other teams with injury crisis'. And that, right there, is where the whole argument falls apart.

See this is where I’d disagree slightly.

I think our injuries removed the left side of our defence and therefore half of our build up (the better half) from the first phase as well as a key contributor in our attacking phase (Shaw and hisnoverlaps)

Id argue none of the aforementioned clubs have had as significant and consistent an issue whereby they didn’t have an understudy (of similar or reasonable quality) available to cover.

For example can you point out who in Chelsea, Newcastle or Spurs has been absent due to injury without an available understudy for as long as we’ve had even just Shaw and Malacia out for?

 

[hobbers]

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At least someone out there on twitter understands the point I've been making.

Keeping ETH = giving him a contract extension. Either a new one outright or triggering his extra year.

Both mean committing a shit ton of money to give elite manager level of pay to a sub-par chancer.

So when there are several better options out of contract to choose from there's only one valid choice to make when it comes to keeping ETH or not.

 

[RoyH1]

8th. Forget the excuses and just sack the loser. He is the worst manager post-SAF. If we keep him for another year, we are guaranteed to finish 10th with some other manager in the future, and some people will still find excuses, because there are always "reasons". After all, SAF finished 12th and 13th, right?

It's gonna happen after the FA Cup final I suppose.

 

[frostbite]

It's gonna happen after the FA Cup final I suppose.

Yes, I am sure about it. INEOS cannot start its tenure with a manager that finished 8th after spending 400 million. Everyone will laugh at them if they do that.

 

[RedSky]

So lose to City and not only do they beat us in the Fa Cup Final but they're able to hand us out 20th loss of the season. Urgh.

At least the league is finally over, small positives.

 

[Red00012]

Any chance that ETH has been told to play with a false 9 by Wilcox and co. Strange he’s just decided to do this with 2 games to go and Hojlund been fit and just mysteriously dropped. Or is it a plan for City next week

 

[UnRational]

Maybe let him debate that himself? It's bad enough dealing with just one of you.

 

[NLunited]

How is our squad worse now than it was 12 months ago? I gotta agree with old Haggie on that one.

 

[hobbers]

How is our squad worse now than it was 12 months ago? I gotta agree with old Haggie on that one.

Fred for Mount was a horrendous downgrade in reality.

Also we want rid of Casemiro and Eriksen. Malacia has vanished off the face of the earth. And Sancho is a better player than Antony.

So that leaves you with Hojlund improving the depth of strikers from 0 to 1. And Onana being arguably not a downgrade on De Gea.

 

[pocco]

Fitting that we finished how we started. Outplayed by a lesser team and getting a win. Hopefully this is the end of his time here.

 

[sepulturite]

Yes, a one off game, and not a 38 game campaign is the best way to assess the manager.

Definitely more fair.

While I agree he should obviously be judged on the 38 game league season and not a one off game, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's kept on if we win the FA cup. I wouldn't agree with it personally, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.

 

[stevoc]

Here's a very good article that dives into the injury impact without focusing solely on absolute number of injuries. From the Athletic.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/54...ed-injury-analysis?source=user-shared-article

And does it say we've had the most defensive injuries this season?

 

[sepulturite]

If I saw you in person, you'd hear what I really think of you.

I wouldn't be surprised if V89 and you are the same person. Always tickling each other's balls. How cute.

Don't worry though, if ten Hag is eventually sacked, I can ride off into the sunset and you won't have to face someone calling you out on your hot takes anymore.

This is really unnecessary. Are you really that bothered about another supporters opinion that you resort to making threats? Think you need to take a look at yourself there mate.

 

[Suv666]

Just 32 more points and he’d won the league. I bet if Martinez and Shaw were available we would have managed that.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

https://x.com/millar_colin/status/1792239275653656658?s=12&t=GNj8QSxKxM_pv7nv4TCn7A

We are keeping this manager

PL table points difference 22/23-23/24:

Chelsea +19
Liverpool +15
W Ham +12
Bournemouth +9
Villa +7
Spurs +6
Arsenal +5
Wolves +5
Palace +4
Everton +4*
Man City +2
Fulham -5
Forest -6*
Newcastle -11
Brighton -14
Man Utd -15
Brentford -20

*Includes points deductions.

 

[Devil81]

Yes, a one off game, and not a 38 game campaign is the best way to assess the manager.

Definitely more fair.

He's had a bad run with injuries and I think it would be hard to sack a man that had won back to back trophies.

If we were judging on league form alone I agree he deserves sacking but he has the opportunity of earning a lifeline. Beating our City rivals in a final nobody gives us a chance would be a great achievement.

 

[TsuWave]

Diabolical season with matching football

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

This is really unnecessary. Are you really that bothered about another supporters opinion that you resort to making threats? Think you need to take a look at yourself there mate.

I am. Anyone who is still pro ten Hag after what we've witnessed these past 14-15 months is like listening to a flat earther. Be it him, Goldbrige or ex players like Gary Neville.

But like I said, I moved on from this discussion. It's been dealt with.

 

[pocco]

I can't get past his horrible transfer signings. Surely that seeps into his judgement of player performances in training and so on.

I've made this point myself. If he can't judge players he's previously worked with directly, then how far off is he in the rest of his judgement? Can he judge opposition players well when preparing for games? Can he really judge the players well that he is now working with? Based on things we've seen this season and even last season (Weghorst no10, Bruno RW etc) I'd say there's a strong case that his judgement is just poor and he's not a top level coach.

 

[sepulturite]

I am. Anyone who is still pro ten Hag after what we've witnessed these past 14-15 months is like listening to a flat earther. Be it him, Goldbrige or ex players like Gary Neville.

But like I said, I moved on from this discussion. It's been dealt with.

Wow ok. I've just gotten a nice insight in to the kind of person you are in real life then, lovely stuff.

 

[Telsim]

So lose to City and not only do they beat us in the Fa Cup Final but they're able to hand us out 20th loss of the season. Urgh.

At least the league is finally over, small positives.

And slavishly handing them their double in the middle of Wembley.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Season stats for Man United

Games played 51

Wins 23
Losses 19
Draws 9

Goals scored - 86
Goals conceded- 84

Hard to believe this but when we lose to Man City next week it will be our 20th loss of this season

 

[VP89]

And does it say we've had the most defensive injuries this season?

It does more than that and examines the impact injuries have on a team judged by frequency (disrupting match rhythm) and concentration.

The stat was key for Premier League injury incidences per 1000 minutes played in 2023-24

 

[BenitoSTARR]

For what it’s worth I am not “pro” Ten Hag.

That implies I actively support him. I am happy to provide context as to why I’ve not fully condemned him and that’s about as “pro” as I can muster.

I’m not pro him in the same way I’d be pro Mainoo for example.

 

[iato89]

He's had a bad run with injuries and I think it would be hard to sack a man that had won back to back trophies.

If we were judging on league form alone I agree he deserves sacking but he has the opportunity of earning a lifeline. Beating our City rivals in a final nobody gives us a chance would be a great achievement.

Thats why I prefer to lose the final rather then sticking with ETH and ruin next seasol

 

[Shady]

While I agree he should obviously be judged on the 38 game league season and not a one off game, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's kept on if we win the FA cup. I wouldn't agree with it personally, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.

Well in that case it would point towards them being worse than the Glazers in terms of making decisions. Basing such a huge decision on a one-off game where random factors can decide everything is next level amateurism.

He should have gone in December.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

And does it say we've had the most defensive injuries this season?

You have this information already don’t you?

@stevoc what was your source because surely this can be resolved by you just quickly sharing it and backing up your view. Otherwise it feels like you are arguing in bad faith here.

 

[Pronewbie]

Mount = Injured most of the season

Casemiro = great last season, huge drop off this season

Martinez = fantastic last season, injured most of this season

Antony = absolute disaster, utterly shambolic

Eriksen = decent free transfer, but legs have gone

Malacia = promising last season, injured all of this season

Hojlund = one for the future but still scored 16 goals in his first season in an awful team

Onana = terrible before Xmas, very good from then but still makes some questionable mistakes

Evans = brought in as 5th choice CB but had to start far more games than expected, did a decent job overall

Bayandir = back up GK

Weghorst = loan that did an ok job at hold up play, couldn't score
Amrabat = loan but was poor
Reguilon = loan but was ok
Sabitzer = loan but was ok

The only truly horrible signing has been Antony. That is unforgivable.

I'm weighting heavily on key signings (% spend) and transfers that have his fingerprints all over - because he's bet big on shite.

Mount has been horrible especially when money was tight and when we should have spent the money on another striker. Never worth that amount and would have weakened any of our rivals who signed him instead. I'd have kept Fred. Held this view since rumours surfaced of our interest.

Onana - Same can be said considering the other parts of the pitch that needed fixing and cheaper alternatives that could have done a better job. It is especially horrible considering ETH would have insight into his poor goalkeeping technique and lack of composure which is sorely needed at a club of United's stature (no disrespect to Ajax).

Antony is Antony.

Amrabat - thankfully the club blocked the permanent transfer and did a loan deal instead.

The only good transfer he's done is Martinez and hopefully Hojlund who lacks a striker's instinct and movement but is young enough and has shown a great desire to improve. Over 200M pissed away in 12mths is not a good record in my books.

 

[Lash]

For what it’s worth I am not “pro” Ten Hag.

That implies I actively support him. I am happy to provide context as to why I’ve not fully condemned him and that’s about as “pro” as I can muster.

I’m not pro him in the same way I’d be pro Mainoo for example.

Sums up my position too.

I'm not pro anyone else (bar Tuchel), that I think is a realistic appointment, so people seem to confuse that for being staunch Ten Hag in as well.

 

[TsuWave]

- Respecting the heritage of the club.

Basically don't be Mourinho and a massive cnut. Man Utd are bigger than any manager and managers should know their place in that.

here's what your Pep Guardiola is my idol is doing these days:

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[VP89]

Sums up my position too.

I'm not pro anyone else (bar Tuchel), that I think is a realistic appointment, so people seem to confuse that for being staunch Ten Hag in as well.

Thank feck someone else has flagged that.

 

[vivaronaldo]

fancy being knocked out of europe by Nov , finishing 8th with a negative goal difference ,missing out on europe alltogether (at this stage), losing the most amount of games ever for us in the epl era , blaming the squad when youve had 4 windows to sort that out and thinking this was acceptable at a club like ours... let me guess injuries (because no one else has those)

but hey he gives fancy speeches out on final home game days so he cool according to 27.8% of you

and just quietly , anyone know where the tiki taka press type football he promised went - asking for a friend

 

[mintyred]

Anyone who still wants ten hag must drink fluoride.

 

[Coops73]

fancy being knocked out of europe by Nov , finishing 8th with a negative goal difference ,missing out on europe alltogether (at this stage), losing the most amount of games ever for us in the epl era , blaming the squad when youve had 4 windows to sort that out and thinking this was acceptable at a club like ours... let me guess injuries (because no one else has those)

but hey he gives fancy speeches out on final home game days so he cool according to 27.8% of you

and just quietly , anyone know where the tiki taka press type football he promised went - asking for a friend

I hear ya! If he stays on I hope to feck he proves us doubters wrong but I felt the same about Alex Ferguson many years ago so…..

 

[Lash]

Thank feck someone else has flagged that.

If we're presented with a better option, I will happily get behind it, but I don't think we have yet. I don't subscribe to the notion that "anyone's better than him".