I wonder if Horner has got Albon on the simulator trying to create some late braking into turn 4 at Interlagos.
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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Is there anything in the rules factually about dealing with an incident already concluded upon in the race based on new evidence? Or is this relatively unknown territory?
Not saying he did, just interesting to hear the to and fro (and the “matey” chat at some points)
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/1...atest-f1-racing-controversy-and-what-was-said
I am not sure, maybe if Mercedes appeal, who knows.
Is there anything in the rules factually about dealing with an incident already concluded upon in the race based on new evidence? Or is this relatively unknown territory?
Maybe best left, Lewis won despite the move.
It was a blatant penalty at the time, the stewards simply bottled making a decision hoping that Hamilton had the speed to make it past later.
There's no reason for Max not to drive in such an underhanded way, because it takes him driving on top of other drivers for him to actually get punished.
There's no reason for Max not to drive in such an underhanded way, because it takes him driving on top of other drivers for him to actually get punished.
Of course there's ways to prove that
What are braking points, speeds etc recorded for !?Not that it is needed. We can conclude Hamilton would have made the corner by knowing he managed to dodge someone trying to run him off the track and still make it back. With that sort of control he would have easily made it.
Except he made that corner on every other lap and got nowhere near that line.
And Max didn’t drive his line on any other lap.
Imagine how crazy this would have been if Lewis hadn’t managed to get past him later
Penalty all-day and the deafening silence from the Max Stans tells you everything you need to know about the defence.
I dont think it needs to be provenOf course there's ways to prove that
he didnt give room and hamilton was beyond the side to side limit therefore he hd to give room - if he chooses not to deliberately or if he simply misjudges it through error the fact remains he didnt give him the room he has to
and as the new camera footage shows it dows not look like max was putting in all his effort to hit the apex (and thats being generous)
First season watching F1 but what a season, so tight between Lewis and Max. Can’t wait for the final races. Feel like I’m lucky to jump in in such an even title race.
there's literally no devils advocate to be needed. Hamilton is on the normal racing line, if Verstappen isn't there he happily slows down and sweeps into the corner like normal. Look at the over take on Perez or the several examples from the sprint race in the same area.You are lucky, enjoy it! Going by previous history, next year won’t be anywhere near as close!
Add to that, the weaving that Max did and seems to be prone to do when he is under pressure.
Obviously Max was in the wrong, during the race I thought he braked far too late to try and keep Lewis behind him but failed and completely missed the corner. At the time I thought the stewards would tell him to give Hamilton the position but they didnt. They said no investigation necessary and Hamilton overtook him shortly after. It was obvious Lewis had by far the quicker car so Max just took it easy and made sure he finished second. The stewards simply fecked up. It would be weird to hand Max a retrospective time penalty now like some on here are saying. During the race fair enough, give him a 5s penalty or whatever and he can account for it and try and keep the gap between him and Bottas above 5s but now there's nothing he can do. You can't say no investigation necessary during the race then give him a time penalty a few days later. Would be a complete farce to decide the title that way. But then considering how much points Max has lost this season already due to others fecking up (blown tyre, taken out by Hamilton and Bottas) it sounds about right if they do.
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To be expected
As is redbull protesting the rear wing of the merc (suspect they will wait till the actual race so they can potentially get all mercs points taken off them for the gp rather than just a grid penalty)
I wonder weather max was actually trying to cause a collision, he makes so little effort to hold his line and hit the apex either via steering input or braking, infact he makes no effort and very deliberately drives straight into Lewis's line despite the fact he could quite clearly see Lewis and could quite clearly see that Lewis was ahead and had the line advantage.
A DNF for both would be a pretty good result for Max and he must of known that with the pace Lewis had it was a matter of when not if for Lewis to overtake, so lose some of your lead or try and do something that keeps your lead intact. He strikes me as Arrogant enough to try it, and the evidence is there for all to see.
A DNF for both would be a pretty good result for Max and he must of known that with the pace Lewis had it was a matter of when not if for Lewis to overtake, so lose some of your lead or try and do something that keeps your lead intact. He strikes me as Arrogant enough to try it, and the evidence is there for all to see.
Who were the stewards in Brazil?
If Lewis is on pole this weekend (which seems a distinct possibility given the performance last week) then I wouldn't rule.out verstappen harpooning him on the first corner... might be the only chance he gets as I could see Lewis being out of reach pretty quickly
That's certainly what it looked like to me.
I posted this last time when max and Lewis collided and he went over the top of him, anyone else going around max in Brazil he would have given space but he give Lewis the option of back out or we both crash which will benefit me.
Tim Mayer, Matteo Perini, Vitantonio Luizzi, Roberto Moreno
Yeah we will see, Lewis has actually done very well to avoid being a victim of Max's 'defensive driving' so far this season, Sunday being the latest example. He has also essentially let max through a few times when he knows he's been beaten fairly.
So it will be interesting if max gets a run at Lewis going into turn one, Lewis may well just let him go and not get to involved knowing he has a full race to get back at him. If max very deliberately drives into him (which is a distinct possibility) it will be interesting to see how the stewards react to it.
or maybe not
Red Bull is not planning to protest Mercedes’ rear wing despite questioning it during the São Paulo GP Formula 1 weekend, according to team boss Christian Horner
Mercedes’ impressive straight-line speed performance in recent rounds has caught the attention of main rivals Red Bull.
After qualifying, Verstappen was seen inspecting the rear wing of Hamilton’s W12 - resulting in a €50,000 fine - with the Dutchman saying ‘there’s clearly something going on’ after qualifying.
Despite Red Bull’s suspicions, Horner says his team doesn’t intend to protest as it continues to analyse and understand the reasons behind Mercedes’ straight-line speed advantage.
“We won’t be protesting at this race,” Horner told Sky Sports. “It’s important to understand where the speed has come from. Obviously they’ve had a new engine here, they’re running Monaco levels of downforce
“When he passed Max he was close to 30 kilometres quicker on that lap so it’s just something that we need to understand. It’s down to the FIA to police the sport and to govern it. We trust in them and their tests and their investigation.”
Given Mercedes’ advantage, Horner admitted that his driver had no chance of keeping the lead.
“It’s always hard to take a loss when you’ve led for as many laps but that was against expectation,” Horner added.
“I thought Max did a hell of a job to keep Lewis behind for as long as he managed. We saw yesterday the pace of that car was just unstoppable today. For us, damage limitation.”
Mercedes boss Toto Wolff is unconcerned about a potential protest by Red Bull, telling Sky Sports after the race:
“I don’t care,” he said.
“The car is fully legal and we’re happy to drive it everywhere. You can say was it fully legal after the qualifying. We think it was but it failed this one test because the rear wing was broken, the flap was broken.”
Explaining Mercedes’ dominant form at Interlagos, he added: “I think we’re having a much less draggy car, the engine is fresh which makes a big difference, the concept is good in straight-line speed, which we had in the past. People are free to challenge that and protest, which may happen.
“We will offer them a rear wing to put it at home, in the library or cut it into a thousand pieces.”
Thank you.
At the time it was a definite penalty I.e. 5 seconds. Now the race is done and dusted, maybe a penalty few points added to his super licence?
A 3 place grid drop for next race would be fair. Though a 5 second penalty as max would lose 3 more points to lewis and lead would be cut to 11 and make the last three races even more spicy. I think he will get away with a few points on his super licence. No idea how many he has or hamilton has before either of them get a one race ban.
Amazed a few of the pundits think that move was legal….he drove off the circuit! If he makes the corner and runs Hamilton wide you would say robust but borderline legal, he wasn’t even close to staying on track so his intentions were very clear, you crash me but you don’t overtake me, your choice.
Perhaps... then again perhaps horner is lying
Perhaps red bull will introduce their own new wing and merc will protest it
If they think they know what merc has done and they think its illegal they will challenge (suspect that's what happened last weekend as the initial complaint wasn't about the 0.2mm drs)
Or they know what merc have done and now think its legal so will copy it
Only other options are they don't know what they did... or it is something they can't copy (stalling the diffuser air with the low rake for example) in which case they might struggle
No one is introducing or designing new components now. 100% of resources are on new years car. It's about getting the best you can out of the car for these last few races.
I could see redpoll rushing through a new rear wing if they think they can get 3 tenths a lap from it... not for this weekend but they probabky have time to get something for Abu Dhabi if they are pretty sure what merc are doing (as I say it may be mostly the new engine tuned for less GPS and the low rake diffuser stall ... and for sure red bull can't replicate that)
Max super slow on these.
Just saw the onboard. With that and the ridiculous off track surely a penalty coming.
So far all the talk of Hamilton being insanely faster than everybody else, this actually shows his top speed isn't better than anybody else at all.
It's more the fact he was reaching his top speed faster due to the newer engine + having good traction/exits from corners.
The time's he did manage to get passed verstappen were due to him over covering on turn 1 rather than pure top speed itself.
Horner mentioned Hamilton was using Monaco level rear wing I think?
Great statement.
I think that they are actually enjoying the battle between the two and don't want the title coming down to decisions made by stewards - but I don't see how they can defend what he's done a number of times now.
Would be interesting to see what the statements would have been like if Lewis was winning the WC by 14 points and did Max had done, clearly willing to take both out to preserve his lead
I had not heard the quote but it makes perfect sense.
With the way they've designed their suspension to drop the car down under load, it reduces the height of the car. Having a lower height will mean significantly less aero drag.
Aero drag becomes harder and harder to overcome the higher in speed you get. There's a reason most road cars top speeds are around 150mph, after that you need a LOT more HP to break into the 200mph+ barrier.
Essentially Mercedes can afford to run a higher downforce setup which will help them grip more through the corners, and wear their tyres less. Once on the straight their top speeds aren't bottlenecked like it would be without their dropping suspension.
This is why I love F1. Some of the most intelligent people on the planet all working around a tight knit rule book and still finding ways to gain an advantage.
I do think that the interlagos track, with it's big uphill main straight showed off the advantage of the new engine even more than other tracks will - but this could be the momentum swing Hamilton needed.
Neither have had race bans, Lewis has been closest 10 points on his super licence.
He was actually accelerating when straightening out to push of Lewis. Bonkers. The cheek to call that racing. I hope someone does that to Horner on the highway