F1 2023 Season

United Hobbit

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Jan 20, 2019
Messages
8,950
Lando let me down....

Never considered Leclerc

Wonder if Max would be apologising if he'd not got "pole"
 

pauldyson1uk

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Messages
55,392
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Wythenshawe watching Crappy Fims
Q3 Result
1. Max Verstappen
2. Charles Leclerc
3. Sergio Perez
4. Lewis Hamilton
5. Carlos Sainz
6. Oscar Piastri
7. Lando Norris
8. George Russell
9. Fernando Alonso
10. Lance Stroll

Max drops to 6th because of the grip pen
 

United Hobbit

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Messages
8,950
They looked quicker than Ferraris after the first two sectors, but they lost it in the third by the looks of it?
Piastri was shown as purple in the 2nd sector so not sure what unfolded after that, but guessing it's where it was lost
 

christy87

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Chelsea manager soccermanager
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People go on about Lewis having Nico, I don’t know if it would matter with Max if he had a good teammate he’s ruthless and doesn’t really have off days. By the way I’m not saying he’s better or worse than Lewis at his best, just feels like he’s more ruthlessly efficient, we’ve seen it with him getting the fastest lap when he’s already off in the distance with the championship.
 

redshaw

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Jul 17, 2015
Messages
9,713
Doesn't seem a good idea to run such a high downforce setup by McLaren to be that slow on the straights
 

dinostar77

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Messages
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People go on about Lewis having Nico, I don’t know if it would matter with Max if he had a good teammate he’s ruthless and doesn’t really have off days. By the way I’m not saying he’s better or worse than Lewis at his best, just feels like he’s more ruthlessly efficient, we’ve seen it with him getting the fastest lap when he’s already off in the distance with the championship.
Its hard to benchmark Max because he doesnt have a rosberg equivalent as his teammate. Hes on his way to an all time great, but other than 2021, the battles are missing (not his fault).

We really need either a inter-team rivalry or another team to push max to the utter limit ala Mercedes/Hamilton 2021. Its the only way to truly gauge his racecraft, mental strength, temperment. At the moment its just too easy. Hopefully a team can challenge RB in 2024 or 2025. Come 2026 he wont be in the best car anymore (as the history of F1 goes with major rules changes).
 

BusbyMalone

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May 22, 2017
Messages
10,362
Wow, that lap from Max was insane. Just fecking blitzed everyone. Unless someone crashes into him tomorrow, I'll give him 5 or 6 laps before he's challenging for 1st.
 

Gringo

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What that q3 showed more than anything is how good DRS is with that Red Bull. Dunno what the hell Perez is doing.
 

rimaldo

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verstappen is nailed on for a third consecutive world title, but will he ever win one without a shroud of controversy? he is using too many gearbox parts, showing a blatant disregard for the rules.
 

General_Elegancia

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Bangkok, Thailand
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Liverpool, AC Milan
I'm not a Max fan, since I'm a diehard Ferrari team for a long time. But I have a presage that he will win every circuit from Belgium to Las Vegas. The Red Bulls are fecking unstoppable now.

Tmr, I hope my boy Leclerc will be on the podium or even win it.
 
Last edited:

Zlaatan

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Sweden
:lol: what a load of bullshit. Used to be times in the FPs if qually couldnt be run. People pay money to go see F1. Make them go out. Get data as a minimum. Just look at the order right now. Zero chance of that being the order at end of FP if FP decided the grid if qually couldnt be run. Fecking FIA.
The teams themselves were against it as well due to safety concerns, so I don't think ignoring that and making them to go out anyway would've been a good decision.
 

dinostar77

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I'm not a Max fan, since I'm a diehard Ferrari team for a long time. But I have a presage that he will win every circuit from Belgium to Las Vegas. The red Bulls are fecking unstoppable now.

Tmr, I hope my boy Leclerc will be on the podium.
Im going to say it, then get burned when it doesnt happen. But i think piastri will win a gp before end of season. RB is unstoppable (unless perez is at the wheel), however parts penalties might screw them somewhere ala singapore where its difficult to overtake, even in a rocketship.
 

Redplane

( . Y . ) planned for Christmas
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Messages
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Location
The Royal Kingdom of Trumpistan
verstappen is nailed on for a third consecutive world title, but will he ever win one without a shroud of controversy? he is using too many gearbox parts, showing a blatant disregard for the rules.
Wut?
How was 22 controversial other than them fecking up Japan's procedure (basically taking a straight up celebration opportunity away), and what is this about his gearbox?
 

dinostar77

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https://www.statsf1.com/de/statistiques/pilote/victoire/gp-avant.aspx

Piastri has some time...

Mansell had 72 GP before his first GP win. Hamilton after 6 GP. Senna 16 GP. Prost 21 GP. Vettel 22 GP. Max 24 GP. Piquet 24 GP. Alonso 30 GP

Wins
Grand Prix before driven


ndriverNb
1​
FARINA Giuseppe
1​
2​
PARSON'S Johnnie
1​
3​
BAGHETTI Giancarlo
1​
4​
FANGIO Juan Manuel
2​
5​
WALLARD Lee
2​
6​
RUTTMAN Troy
3​
7​
VUKOVICH Bill
3​
8th​
BROOKS Tony
3​
9​
SWEIKERT Bob
4​
10​
SCARFIOTTI Ludovico
4​
11​
FITTIPALDI Emerson
4​
12​
VILLENEUVE Jacques
4​
13​
GONZALEZ Jose Froilan
5​
14​
FLAHERTY Pat
5​
15​
REGAZZONI Clay
5​
16​
HAMILTON Lewis
6​
17​
FAGIOLI Luigi
7​
18​
TARUFFI Piero
7​
19​
BRYANJimmy
7​
20​
McLAREN Bruce
7​
21​
ICKX Jacky
7​
22​
HANKS Sam
8th​
23​
STEWART Jackie
8th​
24​
ASCARI Alberto
9​
25​
HAWTHORN Mike
9​
26​
Ward Rodger
9​
27​
RODRIGUEZ Pedro
9​
28​
MUSSO Luigi
10​
29​
RATHMAN Jim
10​
30​
ANDRETTI Mario
10​
31​
CHECKTER Jody
13​
32​
Hill Damon
13​
33​
BRABHAM Jack
14​
34​
COLLINS Peter
15​
35​
MONTOYA Juan Pablo
15​
36​
BONNIER Yeah
16​
37​
GETHIN Peter
16​
38​
SENNA Ayrton
16​
39​
CLARK Jim
17​
40​
HULME Denny
17​
41​
HILL Phil
18​
42​
SCHUMACHER Michael
18​
43​
MASS Jochen
19​
44​
VILLENEUVE Gilles
19​
45​
CHEERS Alain
19​
46​
IRELAND Innes
20​
47​
CEVERT Francois
20​
48​
MOSS Stirling
21​
49​
BANDINI Lorenzo
21​
50​
Nilsson Gunnar
21​
51​
COULTHARDDavid
21​
52​
by TRIPS Wolfgang
22​
53​
GURNEY Dan
22​
54​
REVSON Peter
22​
55​
ARNOUX René
22​
56​
Vettel Sebastian
22​
57​
BRAMBILLA Vittorio
23​
58​
PIQUET Nelson
24​
59​
MALDONADO Pastor
24​
60​
VERSTAPPING Max
24​
61​
JABOUILLE Jean-Pierre
26​
62​
ALBORETO Michele
26​
63​
SURTEES John
27​
64​
TRINTIGNANT Maurice
28​
65​
REUTEMANN Carlos
28​
66​
KOVAAINEN Heikki
28​
67​
KUBICA Robert
29​
68​
HUNT James
30​
69​
ALONSO Fernando
30​
70​
LAUDA Niki
31​
71​
JONES Alan
31​
72​
Hill Graham
32​
73​
LECLERC Charles
34​
74​
BERGER Gerhard
35​
75​
PIRONI Didier
36​
76​
RAIKKONEN Kimi
36​
77​
LAFFITE Jacques
39​
78​
PANIS Olivier
39​
79​
PETERSON Ronnie
40​
80​
PACE Carlos
41​
81​
WATSONJohn
41​
82​
GINTHER Richie
47​
83​
BELTOISE Jean Pierre
48​
84​
ROSBERG Keke
49​
85​
RINDT Jochen
50​
86​
FRENTZEN Heinz-Harald
52​
87​
TAMBAY Patrick
53​
88​
De ANGELIS Elio
54​
89​
GASLY Pierre
55​
90​
SIFFERT Yeah
57​
91​
RICCIARDO Daniel
57​
92​
NANNINI Alessandro
61​
93​
MASSA Felipe
66​
94​
DEPAILLER Patrick
69​
95​
SCHUMACHER Ralph
70​
96​
PATRESE Riccardo
71​
97​
HERBERT Johnny
71​
98​
MANSELL Nigel
72​
99​
OCON Esteban
78​
100​
IRVINE Eddie
81​
101​
BOTTAS Valtteri
81​
102​
RUSSELL George
81​
103​
ALESI Jean
91​
104​
BOUTSEN Thierry
95​
105​
HAKKINEN Mika
96​
106​
FISICELLA Giancarlo
110​
107​
ROSBERG Nico
111​
108​
BUTTONJenson
113​
109​
TRULLI Jarno
117​
110​
BARRIHELLO Rubens
124​
111​
WEBBER Mark
130​
112​
SAINZ Carlos
150​
113​
PEREZ Sergio
190​
 

Redplane

( . Y . ) planned for Christmas
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
10,382
Location
The Royal Kingdom of Trumpistan
https://www.statsf1.com/de/statistiques/pilote/victoire/gp-avant.aspx

Piastri has some time...

Mansell had 72 GP before his first GP win. Hamilton after 6 GP. Senna 16 GP. Prost 21 GP. Vettel 22 GP. Max 24 GP. Piquet 24 GP. Alonso 30 GP

Wins
Grand Prix before driven


ndriverNb
1​
FARINA Giuseppe
1​
2​
PARSON'S Johnnie
1​
3​
BAGHETTI Giancarlo
1​
4​
FANGIO Juan Manuel
2​
5​
WALLARD Lee
2​
6​
RUTTMAN Troy
3​
7​
VUKOVICH Bill
3​
8th​
BROOKS Tony
3​
9​
SWEIKERT Bob
4​
10​
SCARFIOTTI Ludovico
4​
11​
FITTIPALDI Emerson
4​
12​
VILLENEUVE Jacques
4​
13​
GONZALEZ Jose Froilan
5​
14​
FLAHERTY Pat
5​
15​
REGAZZONI Clay
5​
16​
HAMILTON Lewis
6​
17​
FAGIOLI Luigi
7​
18​
TARUFFI Piero
7​
19​
BRYANJimmy
7​
20​
McLAREN Bruce
7​
21​
ICKX Jacky
7​
22​
HANKS Sam
8th​
23​
STEWART Jackie
8th​
24​
ASCARI Alberto
9​
25​
HAWTHORN Mike
9​
26​
Ward Rodger
9​
27​
RODRIGUEZ Pedro
9​
28​
MUSSO Luigi
10​
29​
RATHMAN Jim
10​
30​
ANDRETTI Mario
10​
31​
CHECKTER Jody
13​
32​
Hill Damon
13​
33​
BRABHAM Jack
14​
34​
COLLINS Peter
15​
35​
MONTOYA Juan Pablo
15​
36​
BONNIER Yeah
16​
37​
GETHIN Peter
16​
38​
SENNA Ayrton
16​
39​
CLARK Jim
17​
40​
HULME Denny
17​
41​
HILL Phil
18​
42​
SCHUMACHER Michael
18​
43​
MASS Jochen
19​
44​
VILLENEUVE Gilles
19​
45​
CHEERS Alain
19​
46​
IRELAND Innes
20​
47​
CEVERT Francois
20​
48​
MOSS Stirling
21​
49​
BANDINI Lorenzo
21​
50​
Nilsson Gunnar
21​
51​
COULTHARDDavid
21​
52​
by TRIPS Wolfgang
22​
53​
GURNEY Dan
22​
54​
REVSON Peter
22​
55​
ARNOUX René
22​
56​
Vettel Sebastian
22​
57​
BRAMBILLA Vittorio
23​
58​
PIQUET Nelson
24​
59​
MALDONADO Pastor
24​
60​
VERSTAPPING Max
24​
61​
JABOUILLE Jean-Pierre
26​
62​
ALBORETO Michele
26​
63​
SURTEES John
27​
64​
TRINTIGNANT Maurice
28​
65​
REUTEMANN Carlos
28​
66​
KOVAAINEN Heikki
28​
67​
KUBICA Robert
29​
68​
HUNT James
30​
69​
ALONSO Fernando
30​
70​
LAUDA Niki
31​
71​
JONES Alan
31​
72​
Hill Graham
32​
73​
LECLERC Charles
34​
74​
BERGER Gerhard
35​
75​
PIRONI Didier
36​
76​
RAIKKONEN Kimi
36​
77​
LAFFITE Jacques
39​
78​
PANIS Olivier
39​
79​
PETERSON Ronnie
40​
80​
PACE Carlos
41​
81​
WATSONJohn
41​
82​
GINTHER Richie
47​
83​
BELTOISE Jean Pierre
48​
84​
ROSBERG Keke
49​
85​
RINDT Jochen
50​
86​
FRENTZEN Heinz-Harald
52​
87​
TAMBAY Patrick
53​
88​
De ANGELIS Elio
54​
89​
GASLY Pierre
55​
90​
SIFFERT Yeah
57​
91​
RICCIARDO Daniel
57​
92​
NANNINI Alessandro
61​
93​
MASSA Felipe
66​
94​
DEPAILLER Patrick
69​
95​
SCHUMACHER Ralph
70​
96​
PATRESE Riccardo
71​
97​
HERBERT Johnny
71​
98​
MANSELL Nigel
72​
99​
OCON Esteban
78​
100​
IRVINE Eddie
81​
101​
BOTTAS Valtteri
81​
102​
RUSSELL George
81​
103​
ALESI Jean
91​
104​
BOUTSEN Thierry
95​
105​
HAKKINEN Mika
96​
106​
FISICELLA Giancarlo
110​
107​
ROSBERG Nico
111​
108​
BUTTONJenson
113​
109​
TRULLI Jarno
117​
110​
BARRIHELLO Rubens
124​
111​
WEBBER Mark
130​
112​
SAINZ Carlos
150​
113​
PEREZ Sergio
190​
All this talk about Piastri lately kinda emphasizes how brutal and cutthroat of a sport it is in a way. Guys like Charles, Lando, George, and a Dany before have all been long talked about as the next greatest thing. Even an Ocon, Pierre and Alex have gotten some similar shouts. Must be hard to cope with that at times. Though by the same token- they probably experienced something similar when they come up through the lower ranks of the sport.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
21,320
Its hard to benchmark Max because he doesnt have a rosberg equivalent as his teammate. Hes on his way to an all time great, but other than 2021, the battles are missing (not his fault).

We really need either a inter-team rivalry or another team to push max to the utter limit ala Mercedes/Hamilton 2021. Its the only way to truly gauge his racecraft, mental strength, temperment. At the moment its just too easy. Hopefully a team can challenge RB in 2024 or 2025. Come 2026 he wont be in the best car anymore (as the history of F1 goes with major rules changes).
Yeah, he needs to win without by far the fastest car on the grid to be in that conversation, or at least have a big hand in making the car that way. He's ruthless and consistent but you can't stack him against the likes of Senna and Schumacher until we see him in that environment. Vettel won four in very similar circumstances to now and nobody sees him in that company.
 

dinostar77

Full Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2014
Messages
7,283
All this talk about Piastri lately kinda emphasizes how brutal and cutthroat of a sport it is in a way. Guys like Charles, Lando, George, and a Dany before have all been long talked about as the next greatest thing. Even an Ocon, Pierre and Alex have gotten some similar shouts. Must be hard to cope with that at times. Though by the same token- they probably experienced something similar when they come up through the lower ranks of the sport.
This is interesting, posted on The Race website. The similarities between verstappen and piastri.

"......This speaks of just how much the driver has to bring to this middle sector regardless of the downforce they are enjoying. The balancing point of brakes and lateral load through such super-fast corners is incredibly delicate.

Talk to those who see Verstappen’s traces up close and the most remarkable thing, they say, is how he can feel the perfect trade-off between those two states, adjusting pedal pressure and steering just short of the time-consuming slide – or the firing off the road.

Talk to those working closely with the rookie Oscar Piastri and they are saying much the same thing. He’s not putting the whole thing together as consistently well, but he’s exceptional through fast corners where that very same almost extra-sensory dimension of that delicate trade-off is so apparent...."
 

hobbers

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
28,398
Yeah, he needs to win without by far the fastest car on the grid to be in that conversation
Like in 2021?

On that note when did Hamilton or Schumacher win without by far the fastest car? 1995 and 2008 excepted.

If that’s the bench mark Hakkinen, Alonso and Prost are the goats.