Can we just pretend it's back on? I'm at work all weekend and need something to obsess over.
Fabregas
- Thread starter Reapersoul20
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We'll find you a new home.
How about the Modric thread?
That'll work, I need my muppet fix. I just can't stay away from it, even asked to be banned from the transfer forum until it was closed.
I kind of need mine too, but I'm sick of it at this stage. Cover for Carrick and Rooney staying is all I want. Stability for now. Give the youngsters a chance and see where we're at in a years time.
It's not a daft thing to chase Fabregas - what's daft is getting people's hopes up by revealing it in the press and then not pulling it off. I don't think anyone thinks it's a mad thing to do in principle.
The thing is, it is always implied that transfers very rarely take place in reality as they appear in the media. By this I mean, a bid does not come out of nowhere randomly, with a random figure - generally, the implication is either/or the player and the selling club are contacted to guage openness and willingness to do a deal. Hence, when offers are made public, the feeling is rarely 'oh, let's hope the player has some willingness to join and club has willingness to sell' - the issue is often 'let's hope we can agree terms, or club x does not steal'.
Barcelona are not fecking Fulham, you cannot just make offers for the better players of elite clubs. Transfers do not appear to work that way. Otherwise, clubs would just be putting in offers for Iniesta or Schweinsteiger on the basis that they would 'like them in their team'.
Yes, we all want our team to go after the best players. That said, I do not take the lack of threads and posters calling for us to bid for Messi as evidence that they do not want him to play for us. We know that it does not work like that. However, if there was any inclination that Messi wished to leave or Barca wished to sell, then I'd imagine many posters would want us to be involved. Also, if news broke that we made an offer for Messi, most posters would assume that it was because something has changed in his situation and he was now potentially on the market.
Our pursuit of Fabregas, at least conspiracy theories of 'encouragement' aside, appeared to be extremely amateur. We wanted a midfielder, we went for one of the world's best, who was contracted for a long time to one of the world's biggest clubs, at below market value, seemingly with no encoragement from either the club or the selling player. I see nothing wrong with questions being asked about why we would operate in such a way, particularly so publicly.
We all convinced ourselves that this move had legs simpy on the basis that our club is not run by idiots, so if we are going after such a player, from such a club - then surely, surely - something must not be as it appears on face value. The sheer stupidity of it being just as it looked like, was what encouraged most people that there was hope. Ultimately, it literelly appeared to be as stupid as it seemed - we went after a top midfielder, from a top club, at below market value - and were told by both club and player to get lost. Upon which we then released a statement and said 'okay guys, we get it - we'll go away now'. Seemed a bit of a pointless exercise, at least on face value.
Least we knew when we had actually bid. Otherwise we'd have the usual ITK's claiming we'd signed him every day.
I'm still waiting to print Fabregas 10 on my new United away kit
You've got to be willing to break the bank though. It's not as if Barca were desperate to sell or that Cesc wanted out Rooney style.
Its a waste of time because the club didn't even get to speak to the player...no sit down to convince him. It took them a considerable amount of time to make 2 bids that are absolutely nowhere near what Barcelona would be inclined to accept, particularly after just selling their finest young midfield talent to another main European rival. Yes United asked, but they didn't ask in a convincing way. They talked a lot about it to the media though, why I will never fully understand. If they truly want Fabregas, and had encouragement, they should have asked Barcelona what they wanted for the player. If the money is there then cough up. If Woodward and Moyes hadn't spent time suggesting we had a pit of cash then I wouldn't be puzzled.
The reason Real and Barcelona dominate the market is because they pay, and they pay very well, often over the odds. Until United are willing to step over that mark again they won't secure world-class players. Van Persie was for me the exception that proves the rule. His circumstances were very different.
Van Persie came from the Premier League though so we often snap up other teams top players, not often the very big teams granted, but like Valencia or Berbs or Carrick we did. Andy Cole in the past or Yorke etc. You could argue Berbatov was world class too, did well in Germany and was bang on it for Spurs, him Rooney, Ronaldo were involved in the most goals.
Signing players from abroad and/or beaten the other big guns is where we fall down. Hargreaves is the only one I can think of, who else do we sign from them, despite being the worlds biggest or most known club, we seem to be way down the list. Barca, Real etc often coming picking our clubs off, as we do the other Prem teams. Always said it, but we don't need to go mad like a lottery club, just one big signing a summer, is that too much to ask? Signing Falaini or Baines is hardly going to excite, even if they turn out good.
We really have people now discussing tactics for transfers?
How do you know what dialogue they had with Barcelona?
This season can't kick off quick enough
Indeed that there some things that we can never be sure of but still one of them is that the bids for Fabregas were too low. Absolutely no doubt that and not only once which is worse.
That's a reasonable assessment on the face of things, to be fair. It's been a very strange little episode!
Koroux is right. If we were serious about Fabregas, our bids were way too low.
But if our bids were not serious, then I say well done!
After watching us today I'm not sure Fabregas would've been the midfielder we really needed. He would've been an excellent buy but we really need someone other than Carrick with the discipline needed to protect the back four.
Anderson and Cleverley are far to casual with their runs upfield and leaving us with no cover whatsoever.
Anderson and Cleverley are far to casual with their runs upfield and leaving us with no cover whatsoever.
fecks sake
Do you not think that it is more likely that?
The low ball bids are to unsettle the player by creating a bit of a media shitstorm. Chelsea have done it with Rooney and Arsenal have done it with Suarez. If the player starts wanting the move it puts the selling club in an awkward position, what with a distracted player and newspapers constantly banging on about it it becomes a negative force around the club, just like the position we are in with Rooney right now.
We tried to unsettle Cesc and turn his head. From what the Barca manager and Alves have said it certainly seemed like it worked a bit, only he decided in the end to stay. The actual fee would have been agreed in the third or forth bid, as they will with Suarez and Rooney should they be sold.
You can go in like Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime a la Madrid and Bale but then you a cnut like Levy demanding £120m. If Madrid had started at 55m, Levy would be thinking he was the king negotiator when the 4th bid came in at 80m, which is an obscene fee for Bale BTW. Madrid seem to think it is part of their image to throw around obscene amounts of money, like it distinguishes them from the rest of the worlds clubs below them.
Do you not think that it is more likely that?
The low ball bids are to unsettle the player by creating a bit of a media shitstorm. Chelsea have done it with Rooney and Arsenal have done it with Suarez. If the player starts wanting the move it puts the selling club in an awkward position, what with a distracted player and newspapers constantly banging on about it it becomes a negative force around the club, just like the position we are in with Rooney right now.
We tried to unsettle Cesc and turn his head. From what the Barca manager and Alves have said it certainly seemed like it worked a bit, only he decided in the end to stay. The actual fee would have been agreed in the third or forth bid, as they will with Suarez and Rooney should they be sold.
You can go in like Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime a la Madrid and Bale but then you a cnut like Levy demanding £120m. If Madrid had started at 55m, Levy would be thinking he was the king negotiator when the 4th bid came in at 80m, which is an obscene fee for Bale BTW. Madrid seem to think it is part of their image to throw around obscene amounts of money, like it distinguishes them from the rest of the worlds clubs below them.
Only saw the highlights, but from what I saw, the likes of Modric, Fabregas and Thiago (although I've admittedly seen little of him,) wouldn't have helped much in plugging the gaping holes that Sevilla were passing through. We need a new Keane more than we need a new Scholes (of course, I know that neither exists, but you get the idea.)
Well I hope we try the same tactic with the likes of Gundogan - go in with a 25 million bid and hopefully turn his head, all the while being more than ready to spend 40 million.
Yep, we need both but probably the Keane type more. If we get a solid midfield we'll have enough quality in other areas to do well. At that stage we'll need a Scholes type to bring our midfield to the level where it can compete with the best. If we don't get that solid Keane type first though we'll get run over by weaker teams. Of course the signings we get have to be the of the right quality too.
Daily Mail says we're bidding again despite the rejection. Cocks back out!
If that's the case, then someone's being massively played in all of this. Hopefully it's not us.
So, in the almost impossible event that we still actually managed to sign him, how does he back out of his comments from earlier in the week? I just can't see how he'd justify it without looking like an utter bell end.
His comments were in a press conference organised by Barcelona. I'd have found it strange if he didn't make the comments he did at the time and if in the unlikely event we did manage to sign him, I don't think he'd need to justify the comments.
Edit: or see what Brophs said a couple of posts down.
He can just say Barca accepted bid and he respected the decision.
I don't know about that. His language seemed pretty careful to me. It was more in terms of "I've never thought of leaving. I want to succeed here" rather than saying "If even they did accept a bid I wouldn't move". I reckon he's probably just protecting himself in case Barca are spinning everyone a web of bullshit and want rid of him.
I just had a dream that Cesc's agent was screaming at him for making the wrong decision and that we were the right club for him, damn.
Fabregas wouldn't be a 'squad' signing, he would be a first-team one. The role you speak of in the first team is occupied already by Michael Carrick (who was not on the pitch most of yesterday).
This does not mean we don't need Cesc. We need a Cesc for the team, and something else for the squad.
To be fair, my ever optimistic, straw clutching self was thinking the same thing regarding this. He can hardly refuse to attend a press conference if asked by Barca or obviously he would show something isn't right, and at the press conference he can hardly say anything but positive things without shit hitting the fan.
It's just a very confusing situation. I honestly do think our club are stupid enough to pursue a transfer that was off the cards from the get go.
I think Rooney and Suarez are different as both players had apparently expressed a desire to leave their clubs. By default, that makes them 'for sale', one would assume.
Fabregas and Bale and in similar boats of seemingly not having a desire to leave (at first) and their club seemingly not wanting to sell. Hence Madrid coming in with bids designed to alter that equilibrium in their favour. If we offer enough money to make Barcelona consider selling Fabregas, there is obviously a much higher chance he will eventually end up a United player.
Going back in for Cesc now, seems like a ridiculous waste of time so late on in the window, unless we are going to make a significantly improved bid that Barcelona are unlikely to be able to turn down. We don't know the ins and outs obviously but it seems futile, after our 'we understand Barcelona's position...' statement the other day.
But would they have asked him if they weren't confident he was going to make such positive comments? And for those speculating that the club secretly want rid of him, surely they wouldn't want him coming out and publicly declaring his loyalty, as then if he did move, the club would take the blame rather than the player.
In comparison I don't think Rooney, Suarez or Bale are going to be asked by their clubs to do the same kind of appearance, because those respective clubs know that positive comments signaling commitment are much less likely to come out, or the player might even refuse to attend, which as you say, would show something wasn't right.
By the way I've seen nothing on Daily Mail website regarding a renewed bid.
Why does this continually get bumped when the deal is off? If something new happens fair enough but let it die until then ffs.
I know.
I keep opening this thread thinking we have some new changes regarding this.
I hope the mods close it for a few daysI know.
I keep opening this thread thinking we have some new changes regarding this.
Bid 50m Euros, with 10m of it being add-ons.
Everyone can see that the only way Barca would consider playing ball is if the offer is very generous.
He'd be worth it. IMO our opening bids were practically insulting in this market.
Everyone can see that the only way Barca would consider playing ball is if the offer is very generous.
He'd be worth it. IMO our opening bids were practically insulting in this market.
I am too afraid to post n this thread. Some poster get upset/angry when they face facts.
Bid Rooney so Barca can swap him for Luiz?
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