SerenityValley
Full Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2016
- Messages
- 361
Hello Leroy the Red. Did you put any money in bitcoin like I asked?
Hello Leroy the Red. Did you put any money in bitcoin like I asked?
There isn't a single player that reached Messi and Pele (Maradona) levels full stop.There isn't a single season in Giggs career where he reached Messi Best Pele levels.
The one where he was voted the best player in the world.There isn't a single player that reached Messi and Pele (Maradona) levels full stop.
What season are you referring to where George Best reached a level where Giggs never?
Great point. Us losing Ronaldo and not immediately heavily investing in the squad, as oil rich owners bought other premier league teams and tv money meaning mid table teams could compete for players with us was the beginning of the mess we are in today in my opinionOne question these comments ask is how on earth Fergie thought the club could cope with losing 3 of the only 4 world class players he worked with, in quick succession, replacing them with the likes of Nani, Anderson, Obertan, Owen, Valencia et al?
Fair enough. He does fit well within your definition of world class in your original post, though.Just a personal opinion. Perhaps i should be clearer. He isn't worldclasss as a player but as a left winger, he probably reigns due to a lack of competition other than Nedved, Figo, Pires etc.
It does seem borderline negligent that we lost such invaluable players then let PL rivals make all really world class signings from that point onwards (Aguero, Silva, Hazard, Suarez etc)Great point. Us losing Ronaldo and not immediately heavily investing in the squad, as oil rich owners bought other Premier League teams and tv money meaning mid table teams could compete for players with us was the beginning of the mess we are in today in my opinion
George Best never won world player of the year. It was only introduced in 1991.The one where he was voted the best player in the world.
In terms of peak? Definitely.George Best never won world player of the year. It was only introduced in 1991.
I think you mean Best won an award that was also won by Oleg Blokhin in 1975.
So I take it Oleg was better than Giggs too?
This sort of thing reminds me of a thread I started quite a few years back about Fergie in the transfer market in the later years. https://www.redcafe.net/threads/did-fergie-lose-his-touch-in-the-transfer-market.391364/It does seem borderline negligent that we lost such invaluable players then let PL rivals make all really world class signings from that point onwards (Aguero, Silva, Hazard, Suarez etc)
Although tbf, I’m sure Fergie thought/hoped that players like Nani, Anderson, Obertan, Zaha and Kagawa would hit similar heights. As much a failure of our scouts as anything else.
Yup. Been a real sea change in the way PL clubs recruit. Arsene Wenger being another victim, who never recovered from other clubs starting to compete for the cream of the young talent coming through in France. Ever since the Ronaldo sale we seem to have either been outbid for really obvious stars (e.g. Hazard) and out-scouted for the up and comers.This sort of thing reminds me of a thread I started quite a few years back about Fergie in the transfer market in the later years. https://www.redcafe.net/threads/did-Fergie-lose-his-touch-in-the-transfer-market.391364/
For various reasons which have been done to death - and I reckon we can almost all agree that we were, in essence, trying to compete with one hand tied behind our back - we just ended up letting that side of things sort of drift and hoping we could find players that others hadn't spotted, or turn players into the finished article. However, due to the scouting and increased role data analytics plays in this sort of thing, recruitment has become a modern day arms race. Everybody is scouting everybody else now. So the ability to pick up those players who can train on well beyond themselves is reduced, because they'll usually have ended up at a big club long before they were anywhere near to being able to play at the sort of level to set themselves apart.
This sort of thing reminds me of a thread I started quite a few years back about Fergie in the transfer market in the later years. https://www.redcafe.net/threads/did-Fergie-lose-his-touch-in-the-transfer-market.391364/
For various reasons which have been done to death - and I reckon we can almost all agree that we were, in essence, trying to compete with one hand tied behind our back - we just ended up letting that side of things sort of drift and hoping we could find players that others hadn't spotted, or turn players into the finished article. However, due to the scouting and increased role data analytics plays in this sort of thing, recruitment has become a modern day arms race. Everybody is scouting everybody else now. So the ability to pick up those players who can train on well beyond themselves is reduced, because they'll usually have ended up at a big club long before they were anywhere near to being able to play at the sort of level to set themselves apart.
I keep saying it, our last period of solid recruitment was 2005-06. VDS, Park, Vidic, Evra and Carrick. Since then our record in the market has been woeful and we're paying the price.Yup. Been a real sea change in the way PL clubs recruit. Arsene Wenger being another victim, who never recovered from other clubs starting to compete for the cream of the young talent coming through in France. Ever since the Ronaldo sale we seem to have either been outbid for really obvious stars (e.g. Hazard) and out-scouted for the up and comers.
The youth team was excellent around 2010-11 as well, wouldn't surprise me if he thought that would provide more first-team regulars than it has.It does seem borderline negligent that we lost such invaluable players then let PL rivals make all really world class signings from that point onwards (Aguero, Silva, Hazard, Suarez etc)
Although tbf, I’m sure Fergie thought/hoped that players like Nani, Anderson, Obertan, Zaha and Kagawa would hit similar heights. As much a failure of our scouts as anything else.
Rooney is ten times more worthy than Van Persie. RVP had one incredible season. Rooney had an incredible decade with us.More like "legendary for Man. Utd." rather than world class.
Also, Robin Van Persie.
I agree with that. Nani was world class some days and a pub player the next. Infuriated me but ultimately if you can’t perform consistently what’s the point. Zaha has proved his quality at Palace now and I think we have him the boot too early he’d be a useful option on the right wing about now. But we have majorly missed out on other targets. I also question the scouting and some opinions that we want younger players. Players like Lenglet, Odriozola, Malcom all moved this summer for less than 100m combined and we didn’t even sniff at them. Didn’t even seem to be on our radarIt does seem borderline negligent that we lost such invaluable players then let PL rivals make all really world class signings from that point onwards (Aguero, Silva, Hazard, Suarez etc)
Although tbf, I’m sure Fergie thought/hoped that players like Nani, Anderson, Obertan, Zaha and Kagawa would hit similar heights. As much a failure of our scouts as anything else.
Pires isn't in his league and Figo is a right winger.Just a personal opinion. Perhaps i should be clearer. He isn't worldclasss as a player but as a left winger, he probably reigns due to a lack of competition other than Nedved, Figo, Pires etc.
tWhat season are you referring to where George Best reached a level where Giggs never?
The one where he won the Balón D'or.There isn't a single player that reached Messi and Pele (Maradona) levels full stop.
What season are you referring to where George Best reached a level where Giggs never?
we had the best keeper in the world at the time and one of the greatest of all time, but maybe keepers don't count! Plus Beckham was surely a world-class wingerControversial...
he wasn'tPlus Beckham was surely a world-class winger
been so long since I read that nonsense of a book, how exactly did he phrase it. I know in subsequent interviews he explained it by referring to players who made an impact in games, which makes his reference to Cantona strange over say players like Becks and Keane, as Eric for all his greatness never shone for us in Europe, whereas Becks and Keane shone for us in that competition.The state of this thread.
90% of comments do not even know how he clarified what he was talking about in the book. He made it clear he was not talking about goalkeepers, defenders or holding midfielders. He had very specific criteria he was talking about.
But big Pete is at least the goalie that Giggs is the winger in the history of the game.I agree with Fergie, there is the generic world class term and there is actual world class.
Scholes Giggs Ronaldo and Cantona were street levels above the rest. Vidic Rio Peter Evra were the best at that specific time but I wouldn't not put the close to Messi Best Pele. I think that's what Fergie is trying to define, untouchable players.
Yes.Fits in with the idea that he never used superlatives to praise his players, only a simple "well done" in almost all scenarios. He set an exceptionally high bar but it's interesting that Cantona stands above Keane, Beckham and Rooney.
Not sure about the last one actually. Do most people think Cantona was better than Rooney?