17
I highlighted the key word. 'Some'.Maybe I watch a different game then.
passing is not his problem but strength which to me is a minor thing to get over.
Some of his passes were really good,I must be watching a different game.
If you are going to take a dig at someone, at least be sure it wouldn't come back at you.Not asking you!
Oh and feck off with the insults.
Yeah cool thanks for your input on the subject of lack of insight.If you are going to take a dig at someone, at least be sure it wouldn't come back at you.
I won't really judge him on the performances he put in under Jose where collectively the whole team failed.Why do you guys like to peddle lies just to suit your narrative? He has made 10 appearances in the PL with 7 starts, plus 3 CL starts. That is like playing in half of our games and far from spending entire season on the bench like you are claiming.
The more accurate assessment is that he hasn't taken his chances to earn his spot. May he needs more time to adapt to PL but lack of playing time is not a valid excuse.
You’d rather over react to something you misinterpreted than be corrected?Not asking you!
Oh and feck off with the insults.
Clearly you were watching a different game mate.Wow, not sure what game I was watching but I actually thought he was the best player on the pitch in the first half.
Language issue with the coaching staff. I assume, unlike Mou, Ole coaches in English and can't switch to Portuguese to help Fred.
Hardly going to be a language issue, as they both speak Portuguese! Lack of basic insight into our players is astonishing at times!!!
For me, he needs time and can only be judged properly in his second season. An example is comparing Lindelof from last season to this one, which were both under Mourinho. Many on the Caf had written off the swede prior.I won't really judge him on the performances he put in under Jose where collectively the whole team failed.
And he hasn't really been starting any games recently so one can expect rustiness.
He wasn't the best or close to that but was decent enough and actually promising compared to his recent showings. Nowhere near as bad as painted out to be and that's after watching the first half twice.Wow, not sure what game I was watching but I actually thought he was the best player on the pitch in the first half.
He had 1 Pogba-est pass in the first half when he switched it out wide, which was impressive.Wow, not sure what game I was watching but I actually thought he was the best player on the pitch in the first half.
He seems quite close to Periera who probably translates for him. Dalot can always translate too. I don't know if that's it. He probably just needs time to adjust and get on everyone's wavelengths.Language issue with the coaching staff. I assume, unlike Mou, Ole coaches in English and can't switch to Portuguese to help Fred.
As they drill on the training pitch and he's not the only Portuguese speaking player it'd be addressed in training. When he's linking up with a fellow native speaker on the pitch, they'd communicate in addition to this. Players aren't just left to work it out for themselves. Jose speaking the same language didn't seem to do him any favours to be honest.Language issue with the coaching staff. I assume, unlike Mou, Ole coaches in English and can't switch to Portuguese to help Fred.
Do you usually call people in dimwit in real life when 'correcting' them, I'd expect you'd get a fat lip quite often if so.You’d rather over react to something you misinterpreted than be corrected?
Odd fellow.
Herrera wouldn't have made a few of the passes Fred made vs Huddersfield, he probably wouldn't have lost the ball as much either, i reckon if Fred had a constant run and got used to the pace he would improve (obviously) and be better than Herrera, but at the same time they have different qualities so i wouldn't want to compare them too muchI just don't see it. He is an okayish player, but not better than Herrera, so why we spent 50-60m on him is a bit beyond my understanding.
Ole hasn't had much time with the team, many of the reporters at the match reported that Ole was telling Fred to use Dalot and being ignored. I thought that may be a result of a language issue. Clearly you disagree. Fair enough.As they drill on the training pitch and he's not the only Portuguese speaking player it'd be addressed in training. When he's linking up with a fellow native speaker on the pitch, they'd communicate in addition to this. Players aren't just left to work it out for themselves. Jose speaking the same language didn't seem to do him any favours to be honest.
Nah, only online behind the cowards veil of anonymityDo you usually call people in dimwit in real life when 'correcting' them, I'd expect you'd get a fat lip quite often if so.
Thought as much...Nah, only online behind the cowards veil of anonymity
In 2 words, Brazilian midfielder.there is something about him, you see his dribble and long passes and say, he is a really good player. Then he make a stupid pass or lose the ball in a dangerous area and you say, there it is. I hope it is just adapting time.
He absolutely did not. He played in a double pivot together with Taras Stepanenko, who had the defensive responsibility. In no way should Fred ever play as a #6 for United. This from someone who has watched him regularly for several years playing for Shakhtar.It's no wonder you think Fred is bad defensively when you refuse to accept that actual defending like making tackles and intercepting opposition passes don't count towards being good in that role. The praise that Kante got when he played there for Leicester and Chelsea and Herrera got when he won our POTY in that position must have blown your mind.
Fred did play in a defensive role for Shaktar and the best available source for City news on the Internet said that Guardiola wanted him to play defensive midfielder for his team too. What exactly is your rebuttal to these points? Just insisting they aren't true and everyone is wrong but you? Do you think the youtuber who made a 17 minute video about Fred which repeatedly emphasised his defensive skills and how he was most useful in deep positions did no research and just made it all up? Do you also think that Sam Lee lied about Guardiola wanting Fred to replace Fernandinho for City? Was the Shaktar president also lying when he went on record that City bid for Fred in January? When sites like whoscored.com take objective measures of a player's contribution to a football match and use them characterise Fred's strongest attribute as being his 'defensive contributions' are they also wrong or lying?
Your arguments are ridiculous and seem to agenda driven rather than based on any fair assessment of the player. Clicking your profile tells me you have Fred as your lowest rated player this season with a clearly unbiased 3.2... massively out of sync with this forum's average rating of the player. Go ahead and tell me everyone on this forum is also shit and wrong for not agreeing with you about how terrible Fred is.
If you think that Fred did not have defensive responsibility when playing for Shaktar then you might have watched the games but you did not understand what you were seeing.He absolutely did not. He played in a double pivot together with Taras Stepanenko, who had the defensive responsibility. In no way should Fred ever play as a #6 for United. This from someone who has watched him regularly for several years playing for Shakhtar.
I did not state that at all. Every player in modern football has defensive responsibilties.If you think that Fred did not have defensive responsibility when playing for Shaktar then you might have watched the games but you did not understand what you were seeing.
You yourself even posted earlier in the thread that: "Stepanenko was the more defensive-minded, but there was not much of a difference." Which is wrong in itself (both players shared the defensive responsibility) but still more accurate than what you posted above.
If Fred is not to play defensively for United then we should not have bought him. He is worse than all our current midfielders (apart from Matic) as an offensive player. We could have saved ourselves £50m and used Herrera, Pereira or Fellaini in a midfield three instead, or spent that money on any of the countless midfielders who would play the position better than Fred can.
Have you ever wondered how Man City can fit two silvas in midfield and still look compact defensively?Never was a good fit with Pogba
Fernandinho.Have you ever wondered how Man City can fit two silvas in midfield and still look compact defensively?
And Fred isn't even as creative as them two.
The dynamic between him and Pogba is fine. Just needs time to adjust to the pace of the league.
And here we have Herrera to do that. The poster had issue with Pogba and Fred coexisting together in midfield (probably because we'd be too open defensively) so I just gave that example.Fernandinho.
Much like Casemiro in Madrid btw.
Problem with Fred is he's not even that creative anyway. If we're asking about giving chances why it should be him and not Periera for example ?
Herrera is a better box to box than Fred and more creative with his shooting and passing. Fred is just a downgrade on Herrera in everything in this position so not sure why he should be the b2b while Herrera resorts to defensive side only.And here we have Herrera to do that. The poster had issue with Pogba and Fred coexisting together in midfield (probably because we'd be too open defensively) so I just gave that example.
Our best midfield imo = Herrera , Fred, Pogba
Herrera = DM
Fred = box to box
Pogba = creator
Matic back up to Herrera and Periera back up to Herrera and Fred whichever postion needs filling.
disagree. Fred is much better passer and much more creative than Herrera. Some of the passes he was making last match I've seen only Pogba do in our team.Herrera is a better box to box than Fred and more creative with his shooting and passing. Fred is just a downgrade on Herrera in everything in this position so not sure why he should be the b2b while Herrera resorts to defensive side only.
Even as a DMF earlier Herrera was making forward runs to make through balls when he was partnered with Pogba which usually loves our midfield open. He's attack minded.
We still a need a DMF of the type of Casemiro, Kante and Fernandinho.
And as I said, currently Fred isn't as creative as Silvas to play him there while the current midfield combo of Matic-Herrera- Pogba is working nicely.
After the several chances he gets and proved absolutely nothing in them, I don't get why he should be the one getting chances and not Periera. Why is he ahead of Periera in the picking order ?
Fred has good short passing but I don't notice anything extraordinary in his passing range. Some labelled him as our best passer, this is exaggerating imo. Herrera had some amazing through balls in him that caused some goals for us.disagree. Fred is much better passer and much more creative than Herrera. Some of the passes he was making last match I've seen only Pogba do in our team.
Herrera likes to pass backwards a lot but I want him in the DM because he can win tackles. Very well. His stats were comparable with Kante in 16/17 - not saying he's that good but he does it better than anyone else in our team.
You highlighted the part of my post that said Fred played a defensive role at Shaktar and said he didn't. He blatantly did, which is obvious to anyone who watched him play and I even found a post of yours saying that there was "not much of a difference" between Fred and Stepanenko in terms of their teams defence.I did not state that at all. Every player in modern football has defensive responsibilties.
But Fred was never a great defensive player, even in the Ukrainian league. He worked great together with Stepanenko who is a terrific defensive player. Its why the combo worked out so well at Shakhtar. A successful double pivot more often than not consist of one offensive and one defensive-minded player. Organisation-wise they will have the same tasks but they will carry them out differently.
You were and I guess still is arguing that we should play Fred as a sole # 6 and essentially let him play between the CBs in the possession phase, and protecting the CBs in the defensive phase.
That was what I was arguing against. Defensively he is not nearly good enough positionally to play there to begin with. You also need some size in that role, especially in the PL.
Also his passing game (which is one of his strengths even if it can be risky at times even further up the field) is far to risky to be employed in the position.
You would also remove his pressing game which is another of his strengths, since a sole #6 is much more about positional play than pressing.
Its just a really dumb idea. It would even be better to put Pogba there.
. One for Mata in Anfield and one for Rashford against Chelsea. That's it . That's not enough to make him creative. Herrera might do it once or twice every season but we wanted it more regularly. That's why Fred was bought. Because he can do it multiple times in a game. HopefullyFred has good short passing but I don't notice anything extraordinary in his passing range. Some labelled him as our best passer, this is exaggerating imo. Herrera had some amazing through balls in him that caused some goals for us.
Last season destroyed Herrera reputation in the team imo, but the season before it he assisted 11 goals.
As I said Herrera had 11 assists in the year he got the POTY even though he played in a defensive position. He's definitely very attacking minded. Last season destroyed his reputation a little bit.. One for Mata in Anfield and one for Rashford against Chelsea. That's it . That's not enough to make him creative. Herrera might do it once or twice every season but we wanted it more regularly. That's why Fred was bought. Because he can do it multiple times in a game. Hopefully
Herrera's natural game is closing down players, pressing, winning tackles and being a nuisance basically. He should stay in DM
