[Alemar]

It’s a tough decision to make. On one hand players go past Eriksen easily and Fred is great at hassling and harrying. On the other, Eriksen is great at picking holes in defences on the break.

Fred offers more defensively and at the same time offers comparable threat offensively - his G+A numbers are even higher than Eriksen’s

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Fred offers more defensively and at the same time offers comparable threat offensively - his G+A numbers are even higher than Eriksen’s

I don’t think G+A is everything. Eriksen offers far more in terms of playmaking, reliability in possession and intelligence. It’s not surprise that he has started more when he’s been fit and available compared to Fred when he’s been fit and available.

 

[Castia]

Year left on his contract and a squad player at best

This is the sort of player we’ve kept in recent years he should be sold this summer.

 

[fergieisold]

Year left on his contract and a squad player at best

This is the sort of player we’ve kept in recent years he should be sold this summer.

You don't think Fred is good enough to even be a squad player? Who are you looking to replace him with on the bench, and his role in the 11 this summer?

 

[gajender]

Average player who could occasionally have good games though his bottom level is Embarrassing even for Championship players .

Let him leave in Summer .

 

[Oranges038]

You don't rate him at all, even after he contributed to 11 goals this season on top of all the defensive effort, and doing that as a fringe player?
Again - he is not good enough as a starter. But he is certainly good enough as a squad player.
Fred has better G+A/90' contribution (0,45) than Eriksen (0,36) and still he should be "binned". I understand he's not your favorite player but you must see he's doing really decent job?

Don't care.

I've never rated him. He's never been good enough.

Can't wait until he's gone.

 

[Red00012]

With Sabitzer going back I’d be looking to move on Donny and McTominay before Fred. I can’t see all 4 leaving though.

 

[Borys]

I don’t think G+A is everything. Eriksen offers far more in terms of playmaking, reliability in possession and intelligence. It’s not surprise that he has started more when he’s been fit and available compared to Fred when he’s been fit and available.

Well this is a bit of surprise. My eye test tells me we actually control the possession better with Fred rather then Eriksen, not because of passing skills but it's far easier to get the ball back with Fred in midfield. Our midfield looks far more balanced.

Eriksen on individual level is way above Fred, but this season has shown it doesn't really leverage that much on our overall play and how we control the game, because the guy he can barely run and is almost a ghost defensively. Every game against half-decent opponent (especially away) with Eriksen in the middle is a struggle. But this doesn't seem to matter to ETH because he clearly lover Christian, he played him as DM, CM, no10/false striker this season.

Fred has been available all season but starting very rarely, I get he's a squad player but Eriksen is in the same boat to be honest. Next season it will be interesting because I don't see Eriksen being as useful player to see the game out as Fred is. Which is why I am so surprised people want him gone so badly.

 

[Bebestation]

Sell if we get a player like mount.

 

[CM]

You don't think Fred is good enough to even be a squad player? Who are you looking to replace him with on the bench, and his role in the 11 this summer?

He is good enough to be a squad player but he's 30 with a year left on his deal. This is the time to cash in.

 

[fergieisold]

He is good enough to be a squad player but he's 30 with a year left on his deal. This is the time to cash in.

Bloody 'ell I didn't realise he was 30. That does change thing a lot contract wise.

 

[Lyng]

Well this is a bit of surprise. My eye test tells me we actually control the possession better with Fred rather then Eriksen, not because of passing skills but it's far easier to get the ball back with Fred in midfield. Our midfield looks far more balanced.

Eriksen on individual level is way above Fred, but this season has shown it doesn't really leverage that much on our overall play and how we control the game, because the guy he can barely run and is almost a ghost defensively. Every game against half-decent opponent (especially away) with Eriksen in the middle is a struggle. But this doesn't seem to matter to ETH because he clearly lover Christian, he played him as DM, CM, no10/false striker this season.

Fred has been available all season but starting very rarely, I get he's a squad player but Eriksen is in the same boat to be honest. Next season it will be interesting because I don't see Eriksen being as useful player to see the game out as Fred is. Which is why I am so surprised people want him gone so badly.

Eriksen is much more consistent. Even bad Eriksen at least offers passes and options for Bruno. Good Fred is great but only comes once every 5 matches and bad Fred is a huge detriment to the team and offers nothing.
30 and one year left. Sell

 

[Castia]

You don't think Fred is good enough to even be a squad player? Who are you looking to replace him with on the bench, and his role in the 11 this summer?

He’s going to want a 3+ year contract keeping him here till he’s about 34 it’s the point where we should sell him on.

Sell Fred and bring in Rabiot or something along those lines

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Well this is a bit of surprise. My eye test tells me we actually control the possession better with Fred rather then Eriksen, not because of passing skills but it's far easier to get the ball back with Fred in midfield. Our midfield looks far more balanced.

Eriksen on individual level is way above Fred, but this season has shown it doesn't really leverage that much on our overall play and how we control the game, because the guy he can barely run and is almost a ghost defensively. Every game against half-decent opponent (especially away) with Eriksen in the middle is a struggle. But this doesn't seem to matter to ETH because he clearly lover Christian, he played him as DM, CM, no10/false striker this season.

Fred has been available all season but starting very rarely, I get he's a squad player but Eriksen is in the same boat to be honest. Next season it will be interesting because I don't see Eriksen being as useful player to see the game out as Fred is. Which is why I am so surprised people want him gone so badly.

Except he’s not and he starts far more than Fred and the reason is simple : while he lacks mobility and physicality, he doesn’t oscillate between good and horrendous in the way that Fred does due to being a far better all round footballer. With Fred, the ability is there and in terms of applying pressure he is indeed very good but every third or fourth game he’s likely to play like an absolute drunk which makes it clear why Eriksen has been first choice and Fred 2nd / often 3rd choice.

I do like Fred as a character and don’t think the decision next week is straighforward but it is also very clear why one has been preferred over the other.

 

[bringbackbebe]

A lot of people look at Shaw, Rashford, Dalot, AWB, Lindelof as say they've improved a lot under ETH, but Fred has been the silent knight. He's been impressive every time he's needed to step up and has had some standout performances. He deserves a new contract imho.

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

I don't see how we're moving along 3 midfielders in 1 summer

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Who are the 3 midfielders? I imagine we're open to selling at least one of McFred, depending on which one receives the best offer. We might sell both of that want to leave and we make progress with our midfield targets.

Is the other one VdB? He's missed the whole season with an injury so doubt he'll be going anywhere, except maybe on loan.

You're correct on all your guesses

ETH didn't use Scott a whole lot this season because he knows his limitations. brought him in where we had to rotate and try to hold on score in the dying minutes of games.

IMO Fred could be a squad player for specific games that we could use him(like city and KDB or arsenal and Odegaard etc)

Donny can't keep wasting his career here. He needs to get some minutes and unfortunately although we all wanted to see him succeeding, we need to be real with ourselves and say that it hasn't worked.

 

[Borys]

A lot of people look at Shaw, Rashford, Dalot, AWB, Lindelof as say they've improved a lot under ETH, but Fred has been the silent knight. He's been impressive every time he's needed to step up and has had some standout performances. He deserves a new contract imho.

I actually think he's been deployed correctly. That's it. We always knew he does a good job when he's asked to press higher up and get more freedom to play more attacking role. It's the defensive/disciplined role that he struggled with.

 

[Crimson King]

I don't see how we're moving along 3 midfielders in 1 summer

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Who are the 3 midfielders? I imagine we're open to selling at least one of McFred, depending on which one receives the best offer. We might sell both of that want to leave and we make progress with our midfield targets.

Is the other one VdB? He's missed the whole season with an injury so doubt he'll be going anywhere, except maybe on loan.

 

[Tiber]

im not really a Fred fan (though he has improved recently) but surely he can do better than Fulham

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I don't see how we're moving along 3 midfielders in 1 summer

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I have a feeling Luckhurst has based this purely on Silva speaking to Fred outside the Stadium

 

[Kostov]

im not really a Fred fan (though he has improved recently) but surely he can do better than Fulham

I think Fulham is a very good place for him, and they finished 10th this year.

 

[Borys]

Eriksen is much more consistent. Even bad Eriksen at least offers passes and options for Bruno. Good Fred is great but only comes once every 5 matches and bad Fred is a huge detriment to the team and offers nothing.
30 and one year left. Sell

He's consistently getting outrun and is non-existent defensively, especially away from home. I am just surprised ETH puts up with this, an has been all season. It's not like we play any kind of possession-based football that Fred doesn't suit.
Fred is a good squad player and I'd bet we're not getting anyone better than him to play that role. We might get an upgrade on Eriksen and Christian will move to squad player role. But I really doubt Eriksen will be a better squad player than what we've seen from Fred this season.

 

[JJ12]

I’ve not disliked Fred as much as others but I also think I’ve fallen victim to setting the bar low considering the years we’ve gone through. To progress as a team we need to improve not only the quality of the starting 11 but the depth also. I like Fred and would prefer others to go first but it’s inevitable to compete at the very top he needs improving on.

 

[massey]

Well this is a bit of surprise. My eye test tells me we actually control the possession better with Fred rather then Eriksen, not because of passing skills but it's far easier to get the ball back with Fred in midfield. Our midfield looks far more balanced.

Eriksen on individual level is way above Fred, but this season has shown it doesn't really leverage that much on our overall play and how we control the game, because the guy he can barely run and is almost a ghost defensively. Every game against half-decent opponent (especially away) with Eriksen in the middle is a struggle. But this doesn't seem to matter to ETH because he clearly lover Christian, he played him as DM, CM, no10/false striker this season.

Fred has been available all season but starting very rarely, I get he's a squad player but Eriksen is in the same boat to be honest. Next season it will be interesting because I don't see Eriksen being as useful player to see the game out as Fred is. Which is why I am so surprised people want him gone so badly.

I agree with this the early season eriksen did have the control on the ball and incisive passing but also gives up too much of the control in midfield aswell and it's evident his legs are going the last few games he's looked similar to martial in terms of workrate and dropping deeper to get the ball,he should be used as an impact sub for the last 20-30 mins in games to keep control but if we are starting him next season I predict we will struggle big time against teams who have mobile midfields which is alot of teams nowdays you can't get away with it anymore in the premiership.

 

[Lyng]

He's consistently getting outrun and is non-existent defensively, especially away from home. I am just surprised ETH puts up with this, an has been all season. It's not like we play any kind of possession-based football that Fred doesn't suit.
Fred is a good squad player and I'd bet we're not getting anyone better than him to play that role. We might get an upgrade on Eriksen and Christian will move to squad player role. But I really doubt Eriksen will be a better squad player than what we've seen from Fred this season.

Eriksen isn't there for his defensive ability. He is there to allow Bruno to roam free and be a partner for him. That's something Fred rarely does simply because it's not the kind of player he is. People on here sometimes focus way to much and running around pressing like a mad man. That's definitely needed but without the vision and passing to unlock the opponents we won't really win.
Eriksen is a better squad option because he can unlock defenses. Fred is useful against the likes of City but we need a partner fir Casemiro who can do both.

 

[Borys]

I agree with this the early season eriksen did have the control on the ball and incisive passing but also gives up too much of the control in midfield aswell and it's evident his legs are going the last few games he's looked similar to martial in terms of workrate and dropping deeper to get the ball,he should be used as an impact sub for the last 20-30 mins in games to keep control but if we are starting him next season I predict we will struggle big time against teams who have mobile midfields which is alot of teams nowdays you can't get away with it anymore in the premiership.

The point I'm arguing is Fred is the better player if you want to control games. Eriksen gives you fantastic passing ability what is great to have but you play tennis game as there's two way highway through midfield, what I believe Erik mentioned he wants to avoid. For that reason I am surprised ETH completely gave up on Fred and always goes for Eriksen.
I have some doubts how much of an impact sub Eriksen will be next season, I see a very limited role for him to be honest.

 

[Lyng]

The point I'm arguing is Fred is the better player if you want to control games. Eriksen gives you fantastic passing ability what is great to have but you play tennis game as there's two way highway through midfield, what I believe Erik mentioned he wants to avoid. For that reason I am surprised ETH completely gave up on Fred and always goes for Eriksen.
I have some doubts how much of an impact sub Eriksen will be next season, I see a very limited role for him to be honest.

Fred offers the opposite of control as his best is off the ball. He is very good at pressing and getting the ball. The issue is he is very often bad on the ball and once in every 10 matches you will get q great pass like against Fulham but most of the time you won't get the pass the opens the opponents which is exactly what you need if you are controlling matches.
Fred is useful when we are not in control. Which is why he is s better option than Eriksen against City.

 

[Borys]

Eriksen isn't there for his defensive ability. He is there to allow Bruno to roam free and be a partner for him. That's something Fred rarely does simply because it's not the kind of player he is. People on here sometimes focus way to much and running around pressing like a mad man. That's definitely needed but without the vision and passing to unlock the opponents we won't really win.
Eriksen is a better squad option because he can unlock defenses. Fred is useful against the likes of City but we need a partner fir Casemiro who can do both.

We literally won yesterday because of Fred tremendous pass from midfield. First run was also "created" by Fred run - something Eriksen rarely does because he wouldn't be able to recover from running to so advanced positions.

Eriksen isn't there for his defensive ability. He is there to allow Bruno to roam free and be a partner for him. That's something Fred rarely does simply because it's not the kind of player he is. People on here sometimes focus way to much and running around pressing like a mad man. That's definitely needed but without the vision and passing to unlock the opponents we won't really win.
Eriksen is a better squad option because he can unlock defenses. Fred is useful against the likes of City but we need a partner fir Casemiro who can do both.

People on here sometimes see Fred only as a runner and mad man in pressing, ignoring the fact he has a better goal contribution per 90' than Eriksen - and he's the one who can "unlock defenses". And he does that on top of all the defensive work he does. So how is Eriksen a better squad player than Fred?

 

[Jeppers7]

You have to say he’s had a good season. I’d definitely keep him and sell McT.

 

[Borys]

Fred offers the opposite of control as his best is off the ball. He is very good at pressing and getting the ball. The issue is he is very often bad on the ball and once in every 10 matches you will get q great pass like against Fulham but most of the time you won't get the pass the opens the opponents which is exactly what you need if you are controlling matches.
Fred is useful when we are not in control. Which is why he is s better option than Eriksen against City.

Exactly. And that is pretty much 80% of the games we play. We don't control games, apart from some extreme examples where the opposition is not interested in getting a goal and is happy to sit back.
We were discussing same thing with Pogba. He looked like a world beater when teams sat back and allowed him to run with the ball through midfled/wing and gave him plenty time on the ball. Next week opposition pushed us, we were losing midfield battles and people called this "Pogba being inconsistent". He really wasn't. He just wasn't competent defensively (or wasn't arsed to defend). There is a reason he always plays in midfield 3/4 for France.

Eriksen does not make us control games better. He gives us great passing ability but everything else is in Fred's favour if we're talking about squad players.
Maybe if we were a possession-based team then things would be different. But getting the ball back is as important as keeping the ball. I don't understand why people ignore this aspect of football. City tends to get the ball back in 10 seconds after they lose it, and catch teams in transition. This is what we're getting with Fred. And this leverages on controlling games as much as ability to pass the ball.

 

[Lyng]

Exactly. And that is pretty much 80% of the games we play. We don't control games, apart from some extreme examples where the opposition is not interested in getting a goal and is happy to sit back.
We were discussing same thing with Pogba. He looked like a world beater when teams sat back and allowed him to run with the ball through midfled/wing and gave him plenty time on the ball. Next week opposition pushed us, we were losing midfield battles and people called this "Pogba being inconsistent". He really wasn't. He just wasn't competent defensively (or wasn't arsed to defend). There is a reason he always plays in midfield 3/4 for France.

Eriksen does not make us control games better. He gives us great passing ability but everything else is in Fred's favour if we're talking about squad players.
Maybe if we were a possession-based team then things would be different. But getting the ball back is as important as keeping the ball. I don't understand why people ignore this aspect of football. City tends to get the ball back in 10 seconds after they lose it, and catch teams in transition. This is what we're getting with Fred. And this leverages on controlling games as much as ability to pass the ball.

The thing is. With Ten Hag the goal is to actually control games and thus Fred will be useless in the long run.

 

[fps]

Everton staying up eases McTominay's inevitable time-honoured passage. Hope Fred stays.

 

[Borys]

The thing is. With Ten Hag the goal is to actually control games and thus Fred will be useless in the long run.

It clearly has not been the case this season. Would you argue that? Every time he opted for Eriksen while time after time we got outrun in midfield (especially away from home) and had zero control.

Ten Hag after Bournemouth game:
“I think we have two top departments, attacking and defending, and a big gap in between, and that cost us a lot of energy,” he said. “We got into a tennis match and we don’t want to play tennis, we want to play football."
Now re-watch Chelsea game and see how much changed. Or any other away game in fact.

"In the long run" might be 1-2 years from now so I am not sure if Eriksen/Fred will be relevant in this discussion anyway. Fred is the guy who he throws for the last 20-30' if we're struggling and just want to see the game out. I am not sure how Eriksen is going to help with that.

 

[Lyng]

It clearly has not been the case this season. Would you argue that? Every time he opted for Eriksen while time after time we got outrun in midfield (especially away from home) and had zero control.

Ten Hag after Bournemouth game:
“I think we have two top departments, attacking and defending, and a big gap in between, and that cost us a lot of energy,” he said. “We got into a tennis match and we don’t want to play tennis, we want to play football."
Now re-watch Chelsea game and see how much changed. Or any other away game in fact.

"In the long run" might be 1-2 years from now so I am not sure if Eriksen/Fred will be relevant in this discussion anyway. Fred is the guy who he throws for the last 20-30' if we're struggling and just want to see the game out. I am not sure how Eriksen is going to help with that.

Well thats the thing. Ten Hag clearly wants us to control matches. Fred will never offer that.
Eriksen of the bench for Bruno will offer a different kind of playmaking against low blocks.
Which is why he can be a useful squad option.
We need a press resistant partner to Casemiro. Neither Fred nor Eriksen should start. But I see nothing Fred will offer from the bench in the future.

 

[Borys]

Well thats the thing. Ten Hag clearly wants us to control matches. Fred will never offer that.
Eriksen of the bench for Bruno will offer a different kind of playmaking against low blocks.
Which is why he can be a useful squad option.
We need a press resistant partner to Casemiro. Neither Fred nor Eriksen should start. But I see nothing Fred will offer from the bench in the future.

I agree about the bolded part but you keep ignoring my remark about how rarely we play against low block, while we get trumped regularly in midfield when Eriksen plays there. In those tough games (again I'd say 80% of the season total games) Fred is as good option as Eriksen.

Do you seriously think in games where we're getting tired and opposition is dominating us in midfield areas Eriksen is the answer while Fred "will offer nothing"?
We're exactly in the same situation as 2 years ago, just replace Eriksen with Pogba and talk about how he's needed against low block defenses despite we very rarely face those opponents and it has really not been an issue for us this season.

 

[CloneMC16]

It clearly has not been the case this season. Would you argue that? Every time he opted for Eriksen while time after time we got outrun in midfield (especially away from home) and had zero control.

Ten Hag after Bournemouth game:
“I think we have two top departments, attacking and defending, and a big gap in between, and that cost us a lot of energy,” he said. “We got into a tennis match and we don’t want to play tennis, we want to play football."
Now re-watch Chelsea game and see how much changed. Or any other away game in fact.

"In the long run" might be 1-2 years from now so I am not sure if Eriksen/Fred will be relevant in this discussion anyway. Fred is the guy who he throws for the last 20-30' if we're struggling and just want to see the game out. I am not sure how Eriksen is going to help with that.

Both players will have their use off the bench. Eriksen could be subbed on when we need a goal and are controlling the game already.

Neither player is perfect. We need an upgrade at #8.

 

[Lyng]

I agree about the bolded part but you keep ignoring my remark about how rarely we play against low block, while we get trumped regularly in midfield when Eriksen plays there. In those tough games (again I'd say 80% of the season total games) Fred is as good option as Eriksen.

Do you seriously think in games where we're getting tired and opposition is dominating us in midfield areas Eriksen is the answer while Fred "will offer nothing"?
We're exactly in the same situation as 2 years ago, just replace Eriksen with Pogba and talk about how he's needed against low block defenses despite we very rarely face those opponents and it has really not been an issue for us this season.

My point is our goal is to dominate most games. And in that case Fred doesn't offer anything.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

My point is our goal is to dominate most games. And in that case Fred doesn't offer anything.

It’s not even about just controlling games. Even if you aren’t able to pin an opponent in thread box for 80% of games ala City and Arsenal, first touch, passing, composure and intelligence are all crucial aspect of what’s needed from a midfielder. Which is why Eriksen has been first choice and Fred hasn’t. Not sure what’s hard to grasp about this.

 

[DatIrishFella]

Watch him go to Fulham and become the ball carrying midfielder he was at Shakhtar Donestsk.

 

[Red in STL]

It's one thing getting them relegated to squad options, and another to get rid completely.
McTominay should be gone because he's kept mainly for his physical attributes (he's NOT a Casemiro backup) which hopefully we won't need next season. But getting rid of Fred makes sense only if we get a decent amount of money for him. Otherwise, it's worth keeping him IMO.

He's also one of a few players who can last 90' of intensive football. He'll be fine for another few years. He's also never injured. He is worth 5years contract for some clubs surely.

Because he's been getting silent treatment from Ten Hag. Even after some good performances he's been dropped as soon as Eriksen got back, and featured very little. There's also no talk over contract extension and I doubt we will run down his contract.
Safe to assume Erik made up his mind about a few players and they've been told to look for a club.

Huge fee and hugely underwhelming? We paid 60m €, he's been a good servant for the last 4 years. He actually has the same number of goals contributions as Antony and he played 30% less football! He actually contributes to a goal every 180 minutes, that is a good return for any midfielder.

He escaped a lot of criticism? If you read through this thread you will see people are surprised by his high level like this never happened before. He's been criticized plenty, in fact our fans seem to remember only the bad stuff as he is the symbol of Ole era when we played dreadful footbal, BUT him and McTominay had to cover for Rashford, Greenwood and Martial doing ZERO defensive work.

Reading this thread and match day, I feel like people still judge him as first XI player. He's not good enough to be the main player = get rid. Fred is actually a perfect squad player, I bet he isn't on high wages, contributes in every area of the pitch, never complains, and always gives his best. I don't know if he deserves a new contract, depends on who we bring in.
Do you think we should get rid of Fred and rely on Eriksen to bring in for the last 20-30mins, for example in a game like yesterday? It's quite interesting how are we planning to use Christian next season by the way.

The 30 comment was me being sarcastic, if Kane is too old then Fred's got to be as well.

I agree with most of your post, Fred is a perfect squad player, he's rarely injured, doesn't complain and mostly gets the job done one way or the other, for some fans the problem is that he's Brazilian but doesn't resemble their idea of what a Brazilian footballer should be