Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

[2cents]

You do all realise the books are going to end the same way?

Here's Martin writing yesterday:

How will it all end? I hear people asking. The same ending as the show? Different?

Well… yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes.

I am working in a very different medium than David and Dan, never forget. They had six hours for this final season. I expect these last two books of mine will fill 3000 manuscript pages between them before I’m done… and if more pages and chapters and scenes are needed, I’ll add them. And of course the butterfly effect will be at work as well; those of you who follow this Not A Blog will know that I’ve been talking about that since season one. There are characters who never made it onto the screen at all, and others who died in the show but still live in the books… so if nothing else, the readers will learn what happened to...

Spoiler: Some book only references

Jeyne Poole, Lady Stoneheart, Penny and her pig, Skahaz Shavepate, Arianne Martell, Darkstar, Victarion Greyjoy, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Aegon VI, and a myriad of other characters both great and small that viewers of the show never had the chance to meet. And yes, there will be unicorns… of a sort…

 

[Cheesy]

Reach have no army left. Neither do Dorne. Bran or north has the biggest army as Sansa said.

Which brings up several other plotholes in itself. The Reach is meant to be an area the size of a country...but if there are no armies or major houses left who's governing it? If no one is, why has it not descended into anarchy? Like the Stormlands it's seemingly just been left vacant until someone's conveniently able to take over.

 

[rcoobc]

Simple answer there, the others have always been happy to be part of the six Kingdoms, it benefits them I’d imagine. The wild North on the other hand, more powerful than the rest hasn’t.

Even the Iron Islanders?

Who seem to be constantly declaring independence?

And who are angry with the killing of their queen?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Why does every main character need to "impact the story in any game changing way" or not be in the show at all? Who makes these rules?!?

If they're not impacting the story they should at least be interesting. Which Bran wasn't, he was boring as feck. And that's sort of the point of main characters isn't it? To me it appears logic makes these rules.

 

[buckooo1978]

Anyone else find it hilarious that Ser Davos suggested to the Unsullied they settle in empty lands and start their own house? A house they can’t populate because none of them have nuts.

that is brilliant

did the writers forget?

 

[Moby]

Which brings up several other plotholes in itself. The Reach is meant to be an area the size of a country...but if there are no armies or major houses left who's governing it? If no one is, why has it not descended into anarchy? Like the Stormlands it's seemingly just been left vacant until someone's conveniently able to take over.

It may well be in a local conflict, we don't know. Unless someone has enough resources to claim for the entire region, it won't enter the bigger picture and once someone with the backing of an army or in this case the king of the six kingdoms - who seemingly is blindly followed by the common man - takes it over it all just becomes same as before. It can be assumed that in the absence of the local lords, they directly report to the king/queen sitting in KL which was Cersie so far and right after her death, Bran was made king.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Simple answer there, the others have always been happy to be part of the six Kingdoms, it benefits them I’d imagine. The wild North on the other hand, more powerful than the rest hasn’t.

There we go, I’ll happily go with that.

Although Yara wanted independence from Dany, she probably just didn’t mind a ruler like bran. He seemed pretty harmless in that chair to be fair, no wonder they all agreed, probably think he’s going to be a push over.

 

[Shane88]

You do all realise the books are going to end the same way?

I'm hoping GRRM just says "Feck that, I lied." and it's totally different.

 

[Manchie]

I'm still waiting popc* to upload it

 

[Moby]

I'm hoping GRRM just says "Feck that, I lied." and it's totally different.

The books are pretty much in shambles themselves, he'd be lucky to find his way out of the mess he has created into an ending like this, let alone a better one.

 

[Hammerfell]

Here's Martin writing yesterday:

How will it all end? I hear people asking. The same ending as the show? Different?

Well… yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes.

I am working in a very different medium than David and Dan, never forget. They had six hours for this final season. I expect these last two books of mine will fill 3000 manuscript pages between them before I’m done… and if more pages and chapters and scenes are needed, I’ll add them. And of course the butterfly effect will be at work as well; those of you who follow this Not A Blog will know that I’ve been talking about that since season one. There are characters who never made it onto the screen at all, and others who died in the show but still live in the books… so if nothing else, the readers will learn what happened to...

Spoiler: Some book only references

Jeyne Poole, Lady Stoneheart, Penny and her pig, Skahaz Shavepate, Arianne Martell, Darkstar, Victarion Greyjoy, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Aegon VI, and a myriad of other characters both great and small that viewers of the show never had the chance to meet. And yes, there will be unicorns… of a sort…

God, he's never going to finish it.

 

[Moby]

Here's Martin writing yesterday:

How will it all end? I hear people asking. The same ending as the show? Different?

Well… yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes.

I am working in a very different medium than David and Dan, never forget. They had six hours for this final season. I expect these last two books of mine will fill 3000 manuscript pages between them before I’m done… and if more pages and chapters and scenes are needed, I’ll add them. And of course the butterfly effect will be at work as well; those of you who follow this Not A Blog will know that I’ve been talking about that since season one. There are characters who never made it onto the screen at all, and others who died in the show but still live in the books… so if nothing else, the readers will learn what happened to...

Spoiler: Some book only references

Jeyne Poole, Lady Stoneheart, Penny and her pig, Skahaz Shavepate, Arianne Martell, Darkstar, Victarion Greyjoy, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Aegon VI, and a myriad of other characters both great and small that viewers of the show never had the chance to meet. And yes, there will be unicorns… of a sort…

Spoiler: Books

The amount of feckall sideplots in there.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Here's Martin writing yesterday:

How will it all end? I hear people asking. The same ending as the show? Different?

Well… yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes.

I am working in a very different medium than David and Dan, never forget. They had six hours for this final season. I expect these last two books of mine will fill 3000 manuscript pages between them before I’m done… and if more pages and chapters and scenes are needed, I’ll add them. And of course the butterfly effect will be at work as well; those of you who follow this Not A Blog will know that I’ve been talking about that since season one. There are characters who never made it onto the screen at all, and others who died in the show but still live in the books… so if nothing else, the readers will learn what happened to...

Spoiler: Some book only references

Jeyne Poole, Lady Stoneheart, Penny and her pig, Skahaz Shavepate, Arianne Martell, Darkstar, Victarion Greyjoy, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Aegon VI, and a myriad of other characters both great and small that viewers of the show never had the chance to meet. And yes, there will be unicorns… of a sort…

Rushing seasons 7 & 8 might be the greatest bit of PR/marketing in history where book sales are concerned. That’s as long as Martin lives long enough to finish them.

 

[GhastlyHun]

With his method of writing (inventing people, letting them meet, and then let things play out based on their personalities), I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up with the characters and story in a place quite different from what he told the show runners years ago. With him, events happen because of characters actions, in the show towards the end we always had characters act in a certain (more often than not, dumb) way to make events happen that the writers wanted to happen. Maybe he finds during writing that his characters do not lead his plot along the lines of his originally envisioned story.

 

[arnie_ni]

Just remembering Roberts war was based on the lie neds sister was killed by a targ.

Had to use my mum's copy of the books to follow the family trees at the start

 

[GhastlyHun]

Just remembering Roberts war was based on the lie neds sister was killed by a targ

kidnapped

 

[arnie_ni]

kidnapped

How did ned tell everyone she died again?

 

[kouroux]

........
......nah thanks.

Anime, gotta be the worst form of entertainment, I’d rather watch Coronation Street on loop than that shit. fecking weebs.

You are just a hater

 

[GhastlyHun]

How did ned tell everyone she died again?

The war was already over by then; the rebellion had broken out after Rhaegar and Lyanna disappeared together, so she certainly was presumed alive.

 

[Moby]

How did ned tell everyone she died again?

That's actually a good question, don't think that's been mentioned anywhere unless I completely missed it. Always been the kidnapping/raping etc that's been mentioned.

 

[arnie_ni]

The war was already over by then; the rebellion had broken out after Rhaegar and Lyanna disappeared together, so she certainly was presumed alive.

So long ago, only vaguely remember bits

 

[arnie_ni]

That's actually a good question, don't think that's been mentioned anywhere unless I completely missed it. Always been the kidnapping/raping etc that's been mentioned.

Yea thats what i mean. She died given birth to Jon, but what was the story that everyone was told?

 

[arnie_ni]

People talk about the jumping if scenes. In episode 1 ned gets the raven that Robert is coming. Next scene he is there which was 5p days later

 

[Moby]

People talk about the jumping if scenes. In episode 1 ned gets the raven that Robert is coming. Next scene he is there which was 5p days later

Yep, they showed some journeys day by day, some ended in minutes. In season 1 Rob's battles started and ended in the same episode.

 

[arnie_ni]

Yep, they showed some journeys day by day, some ended in minutes. In season 1 Rob's battles started and ended in the same episode.

Yea these issues aren't anything new. They are just magnified because the show got so big

 

[Fully Fledged]

1. Bran being king is a big feck you to all of us.
2. The north seceding makes no sense (more so when a stark is the king!)
3. Jon's storyline makes no sense. fecking knightswatch ? No mention of him being the rightful heir...feck off
4. Why would the unsullied give up tyrion or jon ? Nonsense. Both should have been executed on sight.
5. Dany didn't seem mental enough to be murdered. Infact she seemed saner this episode than the previous one. On the other hand the council that elected bran as king behaved like imbeciles.
6. Bron blackmails his way to become the richest man in kingdom (-><-)
7. How come that fat twat samwell is on the small council. Did D&D forget he's in the nightswatch ?
8. Why wouldn't Drogon not burn jon ? Why would he melt the iron throne instead ? and why would he just fly away ? Basically the writers were clueless.
9. What was the purpose of Arya coming to KL ????
10. Podrick in the kingsguard (-><-)

First of all this isn't me saying your opinion is wrong. Your opinion is just that and everyone is entitled to theirs I'm just giving my view on those questions.

1. I have no problem with Bran on the throne. I think he will do a good job. Plus it's David and Dan's interpretation of GRRM's story. He can put who he wants on the throne and they can show that how ever they want.
2. The North has always wanted it's independence. They will not always have a Stark as ruler of the 7 or 6 kingdoms so there is no better time than now to get what they want.
3. I'm not sure if there really is a Night's Watch. He's been allowed to go north of the wall. I think he will live out his time with Tormund's clan in a simpler life that is more in keeping with his worldview. They wouldn't tell him that because he can't lie.
4. Maybe they wanted to live. There is a large army of north men out side the city who haven't attacked because Jon is alive. I can see no other reason for them meeting with the leaders of the main houses of the 7 kingdoms apart for the fact they don't want to die for nothing.
5. Someone said in a watch along that I saw that she was just like Stalin. Her destruction of King's Landing mirrored the Russian destruction of Berlin and now she was looking at world domination and pretty much told Jon she would kill anybody who didn't step in line.
6. Yeah this was dumb but not dumb enough to destroy the episode for me.
7. As I said I don't think there actually is a Night's Watch. If there is he's the last of the Tarly's and has 2 children to look after that's not going to happen on the wall. As Stannis said to Jon the King can relieve someone of their obligation to the Night's Watch.
8. Because he's a Targ and the Dragons have an affinity with the Targs. The throne was his queen's obsession that ended up getting her killed. Probably taking her back to Valyria.
9. She was a false lead. They can't only have one option to kill Dany or everyone will know who is going to do it.
10. At least you know he will be loyal.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Just noticed that Tyrion's big speech to Jon in the last episode was a ripoff from the famous poem "first they came for the socialists".

 

[rcoobc]

Here's Martin writing yesterday:

How will it all end? I hear people asking. The same ending as the show? Different?

Well… yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes.

I am working in a very different medium than David and Dan, never forget. They had six hours for this final season. I expect these last two books of mine will fill 3000 manuscript pages between them before I’m done… and if more pages and chapters and scenes are needed, I’ll add them. And of course the butterfly effect will be at work as well; those of you who follow this Not A Blog will know that I’ve been talking about that since season one. There are characters who never made it onto the screen at all, and others who died in the show but still live in the books… so if nothing else, the readers will learn what happened to...

Spoiler: Some book only references

Jeyne Poole, Lady Stoneheart, Penny and her pig, Skahaz Shavepate, Arianne Martell, Darkstar, Victarion Greyjoy, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Aegon VI, and a myriad of other characters both great and small that viewers of the show never had the chance to meet. And yes, there will be unicorns… of a sort…

There probably wasn't much wrong with Season 8 on paper. It just needed 3 seasons to do it.

Season 8 - The Night King and his armies invade and destroy half of the 7 kingdoms. There needs to be at least 3 big battle here, including the destruction of Winterfell. He is finally stopped by the united armies of all Westeros including Lanisters, Starks, Grey Joys, Rohirrim, Star Fleet, etc, rally together to stop him. Bran accidentally becomes the night king as he wargs back in time to stop the night king in the past and has to be killed by John Snow (That theory is just better)

Season 9 - Immediately at the end of the war with the night king, Cersei betrays Danny and butchers a large part of her army. Danny loses some battles to Cersei (her Dragons can't be everywhere, and Tyrion has held back her dragons power to save civilian lives). A long war of attrition ensues, and Danny slowly pushes Cersei back to Kings Landing. The North - tiring of fighting another's war (and wanting to return home to rebuild following the Night Kings wrath), sends a delegation into Kings Landing to negotiate a power-sharing/surrender deal. (The idea being that Cersei can live her life out, holding power in Casterly Rock). Danny launches a surprise attack and destroys Kings Landing in an attempt to end the war and to finally rid the world of Cersei. [This needs to be much more marginal than in the show, whether it was right or night, and should have brought up parallels to Hiroshima/Nagasaki etc.] The North and some of the other regions declare independence after their Nobels and men are killed in the destruction.

Season 10 - Danny realises that the advice of Tyrion had led her to lose battles again and again because he's weak-hearted. Finding out he tried to save his brother in Kings Landing, she locks him away. John Snow initially argues that Danny had to do what she did, but wrestles with his consciousness. He goes to the North to ask them again to bend the knee to Danny. They reject his offer, and he returns to Danny empty-handed. Unknown to him, she launches a surprise attack on several castles held by the North and their allies. The Castles are destroyed either by armies or dragon fire but some Nobels survive as they prepared for such eventualities with deep underground tunnels. John and Danny prepare for their wedding. Sansa and Arya create a plan to use her many face abilities to kill Danny. But to do that they will have to kill their brother first. The Starks meet John in secret and beg him for his help. He says they shouldn't have betrayed their Queen, and if they bend the knee once more he will beg her to forgive them. They beg him to reconsider but he refuses. Arya can't bring herself to kill John. Tyrion is executed in his cell along with thousands of others. John and Danny arrive for their wedding. John goes to kiss Danny and plunges a dagger into her heart.

A few changes there - but mostly sticking to the same script - but I think with much deeper emotional consequences. The whole thing was rushed

 

[Dirty Schwein]

My thoughts on the last ep:

An average ep to end an average season.

Jon went from The Invincible to Wenger Out in the space of an ad break. All he had to say was "she went somewhere with the dragon, she'll be back. I'm the Captain now".

Dany, all powerful woman, dies because she loves the dick too much ffs. They made such a big deal about Jon being her biggest threat, yet she drops her guard so quickly.

Sansa is a cnut.

Arya will get spin off. Funny when she says "I know a killer when I see one" towards Dany. Yes, we all just saw her destroy a city

And the 3-eyed raver is king hahaha. Every other Kingdom will be sharpening their knives. Bran the broken will know they're about to attack but say feck all to his men. Once they're all destroyed, he'll say "I knew that was gonna happen". fecking Captain Hindsight.

 

[rcoobc]

My thoughts on the last ep:

An average ep to end an average season.

Jon went from The Invincible to Wenger Out in the space of an ad break. All he had to say was "she went somewhere with the dragon, she'll be back. I'm the Captain now".

Dany, all powerful woman, dies because she loves the dick too much ffs. They made such a big deal about Jon being her biggest threat, yet she drops her guard so quickly.

Sansa is a cnut.

Arya will get spin off. Funny when she says "I know a killer when I see one" towards Dany. Yes, we all just saw her destroy a city

And the 3-eyed raver is king hahaha. Every other Kingdom will be sharpening their knives. Bran the broken will know they're about to attack but say feck all to his men. Once they're all destroyed, he'll say "I knew that was gonna happen". fecking Captain Hindsight.

 

[rcoobc]

Just noticed that Tyrion's big speech to Jon in the last episode was a ripoff from the famous poem "first they came for the socialists".

I quite liked that actually

 

[Ish]

My thoughts on the last ep:

An average ep to end an average season.

Jon went from The Invincible to Wenger Out in the space of an ad break. All he had to say was "she went somewhere with the dragon, she'll be back. I'm the Captain now".

Dany, all powerful woman, dies because she loves the dick too much ffs. They made such a big deal about Jon being her biggest threat, yet she drops her guard so quickly.

Sansa is a cnut.

Arya will get spin off. Funny when she says "I know a killer when I see one" towards Dany. Yes, we all just saw her destroy a city

And the 3-eyed raver is king hahaha. Every other Kingdom will be sharpening their knives. Bran the broken will know they're about to attack but say feck all to his men. Once they're all destroyed, he'll say "I knew that was gonna happen". fecking Captain Hindsight.

 

[GhastlyHun]

I quite liked that actually

Of course, it is a very good, very haunting poem.

 

[stevoc]

My thoughts on the last ep:

An average ep to end an average season.

Jon went from The Invincible to Wenger Out in the space of an ad break. All he had to say was "she went somewhere with the dragon, she'll be back. I'm the Captain now".

Dany, all powerful woman, dies because she loves the dick too much ffs. They made such a big deal about Jon being her biggest threat, yet she drops her guard so quickly.

Sansa is a cnut.

Arya will get spin off. Funny when she says "I know a killer when I see one" towards Dany. Yes, we all just saw her destroy a city

And the 3-eyed raver is king hahaha. Every other Kingdom will be sharpening their knives. Bran the broken will know they're about to attack but say feck all to his men. Once they're all destroyed, he'll say "I knew that was gonna happen". fecking Captain Hindsight.

He's too honourable to lie like that. But yeah thats what i would have done.

 

[lsd]

I don't think it will.

Although I haven't read them

He has said it will and he has no reason to change now after all these years for a show he probably doesn't watch .

It's his story so he will think any backlash now is down to the shows pacing and Bran not being in it enough.

 

[Moby]

My thoughts on the last ep:

An average ep to end an average season.

Jon went from The Invincible to Wenger Out in the space of an ad break. All he had to say was "she went somewhere with the dragon, she'll be back. I'm the Captain now".

Dany, all powerful woman, dies because she loves the dick too much ffs. They made such a big deal about Jon being her biggest threat, yet she drops her guard so quickly.

Sansa is a cnut.

Arya will get spin off. Funny when she says "I know a killer when I see one" towards Dany. Yes, we all just saw her destroy a city

And the 3-eyed raver is king hahaha. Every other Kingdom will be sharpening their knives. Bran the broken will know they're about to attack but say feck all to his men. Once they're all destroyed, he'll say "I knew that was gonna happen". fecking Captain Hindsight.

Quality post.

 

[padr81]

No it isn't. You're criticising people for criticising something, it's stupid. People are allowed to say it's shit without being expert writers.

People are also allowed to have their own opinion on what could/should have happened, that doesn't mean they think they're superior writers to d&d (writing is a lot more than just general plot points) but that they think it went down a disappointing route. Do you honestly think you have to be a Hollywood level script writer to improve on what they did?

Oh man it caused drama, I guess you're right and we should all shut up about D&D. It was objectively very shit writing and a horrible way to end the show, hence why most people (reviewers or otherwise) are calling it shit and it will go down as one of the most disappointing ends to a major show ever. People have a legitimate right to be pissed off when they watch something for 7 years and invest time in to it and then two lazy tits shrug their shoulders and pull the *FIVE WEEKS LATER* bullshit in the finale.

Some of the actors deserve huge praise (Clarke for those final 2 episodes, Dinklage was immense in the finale, Coster Waldau incredible, Lena Headey a class act, among others) and some of the visuals and music were incredible. The writing however should absolutely be called out for what it is, they made a mess of the final season. Was it the worst thing ever or a disaster? No, but it was a huge step down from the established quality levels and there's a reason it's left a tiny minority satisfied.

I really don't think D&D care if people call them crap writers. They're millionaires who are now off to work on Star Wars. They're actually not bad at all and have written good stuff in the past, they just blatantly got lazy and rushed their way through the final season, so they deserve criticism.

If you didn't hate City so much you'd be my fave poster on here. Agree with every word you have in this thread. Nailed it much better than I ever could.

One thing I do wonder though even though I'm not one to defend D&D is how much HBO had to say one getting the show finished and how that affected their writing. It seems clear they were told you have x amount and not a cent more.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Best thing about this episode were the memes. oh and drogon the "woke" dragon

My personal favourite;

 

[GhastlyHun]

Misquoted GoT scenes:
https://imgur.com/gallery/CTl2Y5d

This is fantastic, solid gold

(Many many more like this in the linked album)

 

[OutlawGER]

There probably wasn't much wrong with Season 8 on paper. It just needed 3 seasons to do it.

Season 8 - The Night King and his armies invade and destroy half of the 7 kingdoms. There needs to be at least 3 big battle here, including the destruction of Winterfell. He is finally stopped by the united armies of all Westeros including Lanisters, Starks, Grey Joys, Rohirrim, Star Fleet, etc, rally together to stop him. Bran accidentally becomes the night king as he wargs back in time to stop the night king in the past and has to be killed by John Snow (That theory is just better)

Season 9 - Immediately at the end of the war with the night king, Cersei betrays Danny and butchers a large part of her army. Danny loses some battles to Cersei (her Dragons can't be everywhere, and Tyrion has held back her dragons power to save civilian lives). A long war of attrition ensues, and Danny slowly pushes Cersei back to Kings Landing. The North - tiring of fighting another's war (and wanting to return home to rebuild following the Night Kings wrath), sends a delegation into Kings Landing to negotiate a power-sharing/surrender deal. (The idea being that Cersei can live her life out, holding power in Casterly Rock). Danny launches a surprise attack and destroys Kings Landing in an attempt to end the war and to finally rid the world of Cersei. [This needs to be much more marginal than in the show, whether it was right or night, and should have brought up parallels to Hiroshima/Nagasaki etc.] The North and some of the other regions declare independence after their Nobels and men are killed in the destruction.

Season 10 - Danny realises that the advice of Tyrion had led her to lose battles again and again because he's weak-hearted. Finding out he tried to save his brother in Kings Landing, she locks him away. John Snow initially argues that Danny had to do what she did, but wrestles with his consciousness. He goes to the North to ask them again to bend the knee to Danny. They reject his offer, and he returns to Danny empty-handed. Unknown to him, she launches a surprise attack on several castles held by the North and their allies. The Castles are destroyed either by armies or dragon fire but some Nobels survive as they prepared for such eventualities with deep underground tunnels. John and Danny prepare for their wedding. Sansa and Arya create a plan to use her many face abilities to kill Danny. But to do that they will have to kill their brother first. The Starks meet John in secret and beg him for his help. He says they shouldn't have betrayed their Queen, and if they bend the knee once more he will beg her to forgive them. They beg him to reconsider but he refuses. Arya can't bring herself to kill John. Tyrion is executed in his cell along with thousands of others. John and Danny arrive for their wedding. John goes to kiss Danny and plunges a dagger into her heart.

A few changes there - but mostly sticking to the same script - but I think with much deeper emotional consequences. The whole thing was rushed

Some great ideas, and proving the point everyone has a problem with: Season 8 was too rushed (7 too btw.). And im not even talking about a few episodes. Just as you, i think it should have been 1 or probably even 2 more seasons. 10 episodes each.


So much wasted potential. A real shame.