Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Sylar

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Reading this page of the thread brings back some annoying memories. I really really tried to give D&D the benefit of the doubt, with the way the Long Night ended, thinking, ok whatever, as long as the final battle and the finale lands, then the ending can brush over some of the odd things weve seen.

And then that final episode is shown, which actually starts ok, but is utter trash.

It really should have been 10 seasons, but all it required was D&D just hiring some writers to put the ideas together and they could have still focused on other projects. Im sure if they asked HBO they would have been given wht was required as HBO wanted it to go on longer.

Just to be clear, is the major gripe the way the story was told or how the ending pieces were?


I don't think I can complain with where everyone landed up, but I agree it was terribly rushed and told in a shitty way.
For me, its the latter. 3 seasons worth of story in one (cos 7 and 8 were basically one season split up).
If you stop watching at season 6, its all but perfect (minus some dorne type crap from s5)
 

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The criticism that they couldn’t maintain standards after running out of source material is a bit more complicated. In seasons 1-4 some of the great scenes were actually not in the books. And from season 5 onwards, they actually chose not to use a lot of great source material from the last two books.

It seems to me that they lost enthusiasm for it after season 3, and that this then proved fatal when they were forced to depend on the 4th and 5th books, which admittedly pose more challenges in terms of adaptation.
 

Pexbo

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I think the guts of the story were absolutely fine, the delivery was laughable though.

I think the books will have a much deeper and more complex resolution for the white walkers though. I think D&D thought of them as more of an annoying distraction from what they wanted to focus on than a core part of the story.
 

AshRK

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They single handedly stopped this from being one of my GOAT shows. Sometimes I watch reruns and think whats the point?
This is what exactly frustrates me too. I hate watching the re-runs too. Some amazing scene but then I realize this all will be pointless as the writers were more interested in making Arya stark look cool and Bran the crocked Stark the king.
 

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This is what exactly frustrates me too. I hate watching the re-runs too. Some amazing scene but then I realize this all will be pointless as the writers were more interested in making Arya stark look cool and Bran the crocked Stark the king.
My feeling too. Fan service over sensible storytelling. Obviously there are still some classic scenes with really good acting and humour so it's good to see some of the character stories on youtube, charting their journeys (usually an hour or so long).

Whilst watching "the story of XYZ" It will be a bit annoying thinking how some of the character arcs end up
 

Sylar

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The criticism that they couldn’t maintain standards after running out of source material is a bit more complicated. In seasons 1-4 some of the great scenes were actually not in the books. And from season 5 onwards, they actually chose not to use a lot of great source material from the last two books.

It seems to me that they lost enthusiasm for it after season 3, and that this then proved fatal when they were forced to depend on the 4th and 5th books, which admittedly pose more challenges in terms of adaptation.
This is worse imo as a reason. If it was because they ran out of source material, then they can always point to the fact they signed up to adapt a story (which they were told would be completed by the time they got to that part)
But just losing interest but continuing is the worst thing - when they could have just made themselves directors, actually hired writers, and if needed, taken 2 years (which funnily enough, there was a 2 year gap between 7 and 8 for less episodes).

The big annoyance was how the characters went away from everything that made them complex, to becoming either good or bad, even though it seemed like initially everybody had a bit of good and bad within them.
 

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This is worse imo as a reason. If it was because they ran out of source material, then they can always point to the fact they signed up to adapt a story (which they were told would be completed by the time they got to that part)
But just losing interest but continuing is the worst thing - when they could have just made themselves directors, actually hired writers, and if needed, taken 2 years (which funnily enough, there was a 2 year gap between 7 and 8 for less episodes).
I find it hard to come up with any other reason for the bizarre decisions they made from season 5 onward with regard to the source material in the last two books. I think the first 4 seasons proved they aren’t idiots, season 1 is an almost perfect adaptation, flawlessly executed - to their credit.

It seems clear enough to me they just didn’t care about Dorne or the Iron Islands, which are the two major new plots introduced in the fourth book. They are unrecognizable in the show for all the wrong reasons. And they had no appetite for building on the complexity of Jaime and Tyrion’s characters, which are a major feature of each of the last two books.
 

Sylar

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I find it hard to come up with any other reason for the bizarre decisions they made from season 5 onward with regard to the source material in the last two books. I think the first 4 seasons proved they aren’t idiots, season 1 is an almost perfect adaptation, flawlessly executed - to their credit.

It seems clear enough to me they just didn’t care about Dorne or the Iron Islands, which are the two major new plots introduced in the fourth book. They are unrecognizable in the show for all the wrong reasons. And they had no appetite for building on the complexity of Jaime and Tyrion’s characters, which are a major feature of each of the last two books.
I didnt read the books so not sure where it starts / stops, but I reckon it was around when Jon died?
I do agree with your thinking that they didnt care (and it showed by them rushing the end, and going off to another project ASAP). But it just indicates how bad it is on them.

I agree, the first 4 seasons were great. S5 had some great moments and one of the best eps. Season 6 overall was great especially the last two eps (although a warning sign should have been arya being stabbed multiple times and surviving after and the way things went down and before that all the Dorne stuff).

Putting a timelimit in terms of episodes on themselves does go towards your point and resulted in what we got which is a shame.
 

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The criticism that they couldn’t maintain standards after running out of source material is a bit more complicated. In seasons 1-4 some of the great scenes were actually not in the books. And from season 5 onwards, they actually chose not to use a lot of great source material from the last two books.

It seems to me that they lost enthusiasm for it after season 3
, and that this then proved fatal when they were forced to depend on the 4th and 5th books, which admittedly pose more challenges in terms of adaptation.
Is that also when GRRM stopped helping out with the writing?

They did add some good stuff not in the books, expanding Bronn's role was a nice touch until it kind of got consumed by other bad writing. The stuff they were leaving out and the stuff they were missing the point with in order to portray things like Sansa being a bad ass were a snowballing frustration that got worse when combined with how bad the writing had actually got. The book changes weren't all bad, it's just combining changes with awful writing was probably the worst combo they could come up with.
 

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The criticism that they couldn’t maintain standards after running out of source material is a bit more complicated. In seasons 1-4 some of the great scenes were actually not in the books. And from season 5 onwards, they actually chose not to use a lot of great source material from the last two books.

It seems to me that they lost enthusiasm for it after season 3, and that this then proved fatal when they were forced to depend on the 4th and 5th books, which admittedly pose more challenges in terms of adaptation.
It is notable that the end of the 3rd book coincided with the start of the decline.

For the unspoiled, book 3 covers most of seasons 3 & 4. And it’s fantastic, highly recommended.
 

VP89

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For me, its the latter. 3 seasons worth of story in one (cos 7 and 8 were basically one season split up).
If you stop watching at season 6, its all but perfect (minus some dorne type crap from s5)
Yeah, spot on.
 

AaronRedDevil

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To quote one of my favorite YouTubers:

"... And also now Bronn is the Master of Coin"
"Isn't he the worst possible person for that job?"
"Well he threatened Tyrion. But also; he really likes coins"
"I guess that's qualifying."
Also Bran. I cant be king of anything. Few episodes later. Hes the new king of Westeros :lol: ......:(...... :mad:
 

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It seems to have disappeared from pop culture, more or less. Or maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places.
 

harshad

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The criticism that they couldn’t maintain standards after running out of source material is a bit more complicated. In seasons 1-4 some of the great scenes were actually not in the books. And from season 5 onwards, they actually chose not to use a lot of great source material from the last two books.

It seems to me that they lost enthusiasm for it after season 3, and that this then proved fatal when they were forced to depend on the 4th and 5th books, which admittedly pose more challenges in terms of adaptation.
True.

Also the fact that they started out with the intention to adapt GRRM's books and not complete the story for him. The show started in 2011, co-incidentally DwD came out in 2011. Dumb and Dumber have since completed the entire story and the fat feck is sat twiddling his thumbs on Word Star and has not progressed beyond the last book.
 

SoCross

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Talk about what is dead may never die.

Lock this damn thread, brings back sad memories of this utter train wreck it became.
 

Mr Pigeon

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My feeling too. Fan service over sensible storytelling. Obviously there are still some classic scenes with really good acting and humour so it's good to see some of the character stories on youtube, charting their journeys (usually an hour or so long).

Whilst watching "the story of XYZ" It will be a bit annoying thinking how some of the character arcs end up
Not even proper fan service either. It was service for the fans that like to talk over the dialogue and whoop loudly at the actiony bits whilst trying not to make eye contact with the camera in the bar filming their overly dramatic reactions.
 

Art Vandelay

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Yeah even seeing this thread being bumped back to the top is making me pissy all over again. :lol:
Never forget! We should revisit this once a year so we can remember the dark times when entire cities moved just for one scene. When people forgot entire fleets. When something was built up as a threat for 7 seasons only to be taken out in an instant by an ill conceived ninja girl. When armies could be wiped out several episodes in a row only to return again and again almost as if the plot was entirely inconsequential next to the spectacle. Let us all remember "Sansa is the smartest person I've ever met." Let us never forget the "Bad Pussy" or that they decided the ruler of a kingdom based on the advice of a prisoner they had spent several years portraying as something of an idiot who's plans keep back firing and that whole thing with going north of the wall to capture a wight...

How the feck did we all manage to watch it until the end?! I feel dumber just remembering half that shit.
 

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Never forget! We should revisit this once a year so we can remember the dark times when entire cities moved just for one scene. When people forgot entire fleets. When something was built up as a threat for 7 seasons only to be taken out in an instant by an ill conceived ninja girl. When armies could be wiped out several episodes in a row only to return again and again almost as if the plot was entirely inconsequential next to the spectacle. Let us all remember "Sansa is the smartest person I've ever met." Let us never forget the "Bad Pussy" or that they decided the ruler of a kingdom based on the advice of a prisoner they had spent several years portraying as something of an idiot who's plans keep back firing and that whole thing with going north of the wall to capture a wight...

How the feck did we all manage to watch it until the end?! I feel dumber just remembering half that shit.
*Drogon blasts a breath of fire melting the iron throne*
Fans: "it is symbolic because the iron throne and it's pursuit caused their mothers death"
DnD: "actually the chair was just in the way and we thought it would be cooler to see it melt in special effects"

Didn't they suggest they were not going to have a ruler on the iron throne as we need "change" and then proceed to elect Bran as the ruler on the throne?
 

AltiUn

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I think if I ever rewatched the show, I'd finish my rewatch at the last episode of season 6. 5 and 6 weren't as good as the previous 4 but there were still plenty of interesting characters, plotlines and some outstanding episodes up until that point, I'd never watch the last 2 again.
 

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*Drogon blasts a breath of fire melting the iron throne*
Fans: "it is symbolic because the iron throne and it's pursuit caused their mothers death"
DnD: "actually the chair was just in the way and we thought it would be cooler to see it melt in special effects"

Didn't they suggest they were not going to have a ruler on the iron throne as we need "change" and then proceed to elect Bran as the ruler on the throne?
"The dragon just kind of forgot that is was Jon who killed Dany".
 
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AaronRedDevil

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Season 7 was the ending for me. Sansa and Arya back at winterfell looking at the snowfall as there father was right. Winter has come. Shame we never saw the battle. Oh I bet that fight between the night king and Jon Snow would have been epic!
 

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At least we're not as bad as Freefolk and wanking over each others shite alternative storylines.

"The show should have had three extra seasons. One for the battle against the Night King, one for the battle against Dany and Jon, and then one for something else."

"OMG SOOOOOOOOO MUCH BETTER THAN WHAT WE GOT XOXOXOXOXOXOXOX"
 

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At least we're not as bad as Freefolk and wanking over each others shite alternative storylines.

"The show should have had three extra seasons. One for the battle against the Night King, one for the battle against Dany and Jon, and then one for something else."

"OMG SOOOOOOOOO MUCH BETTER THAN WHAT WE GOT XOXOXOXOXOXOXOX"
r/freefolk with the occasional meme is the only good lasting legacy of the final two seasons.
 

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*Drogon blasts a breath of fire melting the iron throne*
Fans: "it is symbolic because the iron throne and it's pursuit caused their mothers death"
DnD: "actually the chair was just in the way and we thought it would be cooler to see it melt in special effects"

Didn't they suggest they were not going to have a ruler on the iron throne as we need "change" and then proceed to elect Bran as the ruler on the throne?
I have no idea, they came out with so much bollocks that I've forgotten most of it. One of the best ones was "Thematically it made sense to us, because we wanted it to happen." They also changed the Dorne storyline because they liked one of the actresses angry face. :lol:

Sometimes I almost feel like we should hail them as absolutely phenomenal chancers that just blagged their way to the top for a while. Like Ali Dia only they got away with it for ages. Like praise them for getting it so right when they were that bad at it in the end.
 

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Completely ruined what could of been the best tv show of all time in the last two seasons. Criminal how they rushed it.
 

Sylar

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At least we're not as bad as Freefolk and wanking over each others shite alternative storylines.

"The show should have had three extra seasons. One for the battle against the Night King, one for the battle against Dany and Jon, and then one for something else."

"OMG SOOOOOOOOO MUCH BETTER THAN WHAT WE GOT XOXOXOXOXOXOXOX"
That actually does sound better for story telling :nervous:
 

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That actually does sound better for story telling :nervous:
But it's nothing, it's some half assed sentence that doesn't go into any detail. Script writing is hard - REALLY hard. Take any idea you have and try to write it down. It becomes infinitely more difficult to take an idea and turn it into something tangible.

As an idea it might sound more appealing but it doesn't go into any specifics at all, or answer any difficult questions such as "what are the A and B stories per episode" or "what about the kingindanorf". It's just a lazy way to get internet points and fortunately the Freefolk audience are so dense they'll accept anything that is negative against GoT, even if it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

But the Freefolk experts don't like it when you point that out to them. Or show them your Littlefinger.
 

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But it's nothing, it's some half assed sentence that doesn't go into any detail. Script writing is hard - REALLY hard. Take any idea you have and try to write it down. It becomes infinitely more difficult to take an idea and turn it into something tangible.

As an idea it might sound more appealing but it doesn't go into any specifics at all, or answer any difficult questions such as "what are the A and B stories per episode" or "what about the kingindanorf". It's just a lazy way to get internet points and fortunately the Freefolk audience are so dense they'll accept anything that is negative against GoT, even if it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

But the Freefolk experts don't like it when you point that out to them. Or show them your Littlefinger.
Who are the freefolk community? I missed this as I kind of locked off GoT 1 week after the end of the season and never looked back
 

Sylar

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But it's nothing, it's some half assed sentence that doesn't go into any detail. Script writing is hard - REALLY hard. Take any idea you have and try to write it down. It becomes infinitely more difficult to take an idea and turn it into something tangible.

As an idea it might sound more appealing but it doesn't go into any specifics at all, or answer any difficult questions such as "what are the A and B stories per episode" or "what about the kingindanorf". It's just a lazy way to get internet points and fortunately the Freefolk audience are so dense they'll accept anything that is negative against GoT, even if it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

But the Freefolk experts don't like it when you point that out to them. Or show them your Littlefinger.
Oh I get all that, but the thought of more episodes to tell a story that we were given over 3 seasons rather than the one we got just indicates it would have more room to breath.

The issue I have is that d&d didn't just look to get writers on board to take the stress of themselves (unless they did which is bad)
But d&d did indicate an end point and then try and fit a story towards it working backwards with plot points rather than just naturally going forward and letting the story dictate how many EPs were required

I won't discuss directly to free folk as I haven't read it but I've seen some YouTube videos which do what you say and have put a lot of thought into it and seems more about trying to advance a story instead of getting to an end as quick as possible
 

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Who are the freefolk community? I missed this as I kind of locked off GoT 1 week after the end of the season and never looked back
Oh I get all that, but the thought of more episodes to tell a story that we were given over 3 seasons rather than the one we got just indicates it would have more room to breath.

The issue I have is that d&d didn't just look to get writers on board to take the stress of themselves (unless they did which is bad)
But d&d did indicate an end point and then try and fit a story towards it working backwards with plot points rather than just naturally going forward and letting the story dictate how many EPs were required

I won't discuss directly to free folk as I haven't read it but I've seen some YouTube videos which do what you say and have put a lot of thought into it and seems more about trying to advance a story instead of getting to an end as quick as possible
All you need to know about Freefolk is Rob got his leaked information from them and they became whiny little bitches when Jon didn't become King. It's probably my second least favourite sub Reddit just after Am I The Asshole.

And, absolutely, D&D are terrible but it doesn't mean that Reddit isn't filled with tubes.
 

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All you need to know about Freefolk is Rob got his leaked information from them and they became whiny little bitches when Jon didn't become King. It's probably my second least favourite sub Reddit just after Am I The Asshole.

And, absolutely, D&D are terrible but it doesn't mean that Reddit isn't filled with tubes.
I thought all the leaks came true.

nowadays leaks seem to be bloody accurate