It was like the vanilla vs vinegar discussion.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
- Thread starter ha_rooney
- Start date
Aw man, do you not remember the whole drama surrounding Rob and his "guess the timeline" thing? It was a wild ride.
Probably the only thing I liked from the last season.
The problem is that while some characters' stories might benefit from extra seasons, others would have absolutely nowhere to go. So you'd get a lot more of the "pointless filler" storylines people here so loved, as characters basically wait around until other characters' plotlines have progressed enough for them to become relevant again.
It's a pacing problem that is built into adapting the structure of the books, I think. GRRM can and does happily park characters for multiple books if he wants to, whereas showrunners face logistical problems (most notably their actors' contracts) that limit what they can do. That's how you end up with a whole season of Theon being repetitively tortured as opposed to the character just being dropped for a bit as in the books. Or Arya being parked in assassin training school for longer than most fans were happy with until other plotlines have progressed enough for her to get moving again. Or characters seeming to have the ability to teleport as the story demands.
I'm not sure how else you could finish the show other than working backwards from the endpoint. If they just went with the flow it would be a meandering mess. Hell, even free of all these limitations GRRM has struggled both to manoeuvre characters around each other and to finish the story generally, so I don't think there was ever a perfectly graceful way to wrap the TV show up.
The real problem was that a lot of the writing within that was really, really stupid.
Bronn disappeared for a few seasons.
I don't mind this. People are not always doing exciting things.
They could always kill characters off. The great war with the white walkers is an opportunity to trim the fat and focus on more pressing arcs. The Hound for example could of been killed off then. Jaime perhaps (in one last heroic act), maybe even do an Avengers Endgame (if you know what I mean)
The writing was horrendous, there's no two ways about it.I still love that Cersei sent an assassin (Bronn) to actually murder her brothers and a few episodes later one brother is pleading with her outside the walls of King's Landing saying 'you're not a monster' and the other brother goes back to rescue her when the city falls. Not even a 'you sent someone to kill me you silly goose, but I forgive you'.
I don't understand how anyone could rewatch the show again as to me it would just be a complete waste of time.
Why watch hours of Jon Snow going on this epic journey only for it to not matter at all and the big reveal of he really is having no payback .
Same for Danerys ,Cersie and so many other storylines forgotten ie the faceless men,Dorne etc .
Strangely enough the best summary I've heard came from Kevin Hart who said this is another example of Hollywood and TV just rushing in when they shouldn't instead of just letting the guy write the books then doing the show.
If he finishes the books then great if he doesn't then let it be don't ruin it
Why watch hours of Jon Snow going on this epic journey only for it to not matter at all and the big reveal of he really is having no payback .
Same for Danerys ,Cersie and so many other storylines forgotten ie the faceless men,Dorne etc .
Strangely enough the best summary I've heard came from Kevin Hart who said this is another example of Hollywood and TV just rushing in when they shouldn't instead of just letting the guy write the books then doing the show.
If he finishes the books then great if he doesn't then let it be don't ruin it
Christ, this thread is a blast from the past!
I remember when everyone was excited about the upcoming seasons, giving their predictions on what they thought might happen - what they wanted to happen. Such an innocent time…
Still maintain that season 7 was the worst; absolute train wreck of a season that one. I don’t agree with the criticism about D&D being talentless hacks or anything of that nature though. That is just simply not true, obviously. I think it was more to do with the fact that they just lost their enthusiasm for the show and wanted to wrap it up. It was clearly rushed just to get it done and out the way, and it obviously had a negative impact on the show in the end.
The writing suffered big time, with some of the dialogue being particularly terrible. This was when we also saw the flanderization of certain characters - Tormund and Bronn in particular. The worst thing they did was to completely abandon one of the main things that made the show stand out, and that was the fact that no character had any plot armor. If they made mistakes or put themselves in situations where the logical outcome was death, then death it would be. Again, this wasn’t death for the sake of it, but one that made sense in context.
Season 7 and 8 basically just said “feck that” and nearly everyone became superhuman. A complete betrayal of the logic that the world had built up in previous seasons. I was thinking of doing a rewatch of the show, but who the feck has time for that. Even in the middle of a pandemic.
I remember when everyone was excited about the upcoming seasons, giving their predictions on what they thought might happen - what they wanted to happen. Such an innocent time…
Still maintain that season 7 was the worst; absolute train wreck of a season that one. I don’t agree with the criticism about D&D being talentless hacks or anything of that nature though. That is just simply not true, obviously. I think it was more to do with the fact that they just lost their enthusiasm for the show and wanted to wrap it up. It was clearly rushed just to get it done and out the way, and it obviously had a negative impact on the show in the end.
The writing suffered big time, with some of the dialogue being particularly terrible. This was when we also saw the flanderization of certain characters - Tormund and Bronn in particular. The worst thing they did was to completely abandon one of the main things that made the show stand out, and that was the fact that no character had any plot armor. If they made mistakes or put themselves in situations where the logical outcome was death, then death it would be. Again, this wasn’t death for the sake of it, but one that made sense in context.
Season 7 and 8 basically just said “feck that” and nearly everyone became superhuman. A complete betrayal of the logic that the world had built up in previous seasons. I was thinking of doing a rewatch of the show, but who the feck has time for that. Even in the middle of a pandemic.
Yeah, I think the whole consequences have actions being taken out was annoying. @BusbyMalone
I still dont get the scene where Jon sees Sam being overwhelmed by wights but deciding to leave him, what that purpose served. It wasnt mentioned again, and its not like Sam died.
@sullydnl we had a whole season without the ending King. I really think more of a deal should have been made about Jon being a targ and the rightful king. We didnt see his families reaction to it just the aftermath.
It wasnt even mentioned when it came up.
We didnt see the direct aftermath of Dany being killed, which for some reason resulted in Jon being put in prison? rather than killed? I mean that woud have at least given us something.
I think filling three seasons worth of stuff would have been easier than most people think, given how quick Yara was rescued, how the long night, basically was one short night, and how they rushed to get to KL and how little time they spent with Dany as mad queen.
The writing was bad, but even some of the stuff didnt match the shows internal logic which had been established and what made it so special. If they worked backwards to tell a story rather than to rush to a finish, we could have easily got the GOAT show rather than a GOAT but terrible finish show.
I think everything to 6 was perfect
I still dont get the scene where Jon sees Sam being overwhelmed by wights but deciding to leave him, what that purpose served. It wasnt mentioned again, and its not like Sam died.
@sullydnl we had a whole season without the ending King. I really think more of a deal should have been made about Jon being a targ and the rightful king. We didnt see his families reaction to it just the aftermath.
It wasnt even mentioned when it came up.
We didnt see the direct aftermath of Dany being killed, which for some reason resulted in Jon being put in prison? rather than killed? I mean that woud have at least given us something.
I think filling three seasons worth of stuff would have been easier than most people think, given how quick Yara was rescued, how the long night, basically was one short night, and how they rushed to get to KL and how little time they spent with Dany as mad queen.
The writing was bad, but even some of the stuff didnt match the shows internal logic which had been established and what made it so special. If they worked backwards to tell a story rather than to rush to a finish, we could have easily got the GOAT show rather than a GOAT but terrible finish show.
I think everything to 6 was perfect
The seeds of the problems that would gradually become a major issue were there from very early on, was not that much of a surprise how it fell away if the criticisms that were leveled at the earlier seasons had been heeded. The showrunners were generally pretty good at the big set pieces, the wow moments, were not so good(to put it mildly) at the world and character building that tied those moments together.
It should have been so much better, not the last couple of seasons alone but the whole project.
It should have been so much better, not the last couple of seasons alone but the whole project.
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Been re-watching the final season recently because it's a year since it aired and, yep, still enjoy it a year on. Definitely has some dumb moments but I appreciated what the writers tried to say about the true face of war, the devastating effects of power, and the role that they both play in inflicting and prolonging trauma. It's not the most graceful conclusion in the world, and I don't like the last two seasons as much as the first six, but I loved the first six seasons so much so the last 13 episodes had a lot to live up to. What I got was pretty satisfying and, to the writers' credit, incredibly bold. It would have been very easy to have the Night King to be the final boss and to have Jon and Daenerys live happily ever after, but I'm not sure what that would have really said in the grand scheme of things.
I've watched "better" shows in the last twelve months. I fell so hard for Mad Men, which might be the (quote, unquote) best show I've ever watched; I really enjoyed watching The Sopranos through with my dad; Better Call Saul's fifth season is providing more evidence that it's one of the best shows currently on TV; BoJack Horseman's ending was really well-judged and I'm glad that went out on a high. I've watched weaker shows since, too - Lost, which is an occasionally frustrating but hugely fun mystery box drama (just started season 3); Jane the Virgin, which was pretty slight and broadly sketched but still lighthearted and entertaining; Stranger Things, which is really repetitive now but remains easy-going enough to be fun and easily digestible.
But no TV drama will ever have my heart like Game of Thrones. I do miss it. Mad Men came awfully, awfully close to pipping it to the post (seriously, wow, what a show that is - an absolute tour de force in how to slowly, patiently tell an emotionally rewarding and cathartic story), but I realised I'd need to watch it through six times like I did Game of Thrones before I have the same forensic obsession with it. I've long since made my peace with people disliking season 8 because I still got a lot of enjoyment out of it (probably more than most people) and other peoples' opinions don't really affect that. It's a shame some people didn't like it all that much because it's always nice to see other folks enjoying things, but hey, can't win 'em all.
I've watched "better" shows in the last twelve months. I fell so hard for Mad Men, which might be the (quote, unquote) best show I've ever watched; I really enjoyed watching The Sopranos through with my dad; Better Call Saul's fifth season is providing more evidence that it's one of the best shows currently on TV; BoJack Horseman's ending was really well-judged and I'm glad that went out on a high. I've watched weaker shows since, too - Lost, which is an occasionally frustrating but hugely fun mystery box drama (just started season 3); Jane the Virgin, which was pretty slight and broadly sketched but still lighthearted and entertaining; Stranger Things, which is really repetitive now but remains easy-going enough to be fun and easily digestible.
But no TV drama will ever have my heart like Game of Thrones. I do miss it. Mad Men came awfully, awfully close to pipping it to the post (seriously, wow, what a show that is - an absolute tour de force in how to slowly, patiently tell an emotionally rewarding and cathartic story), but I realised I'd need to watch it through six times like I did Game of Thrones before I have the same forensic obsession with it. I've long since made my peace with people disliking season 8 because I still got a lot of enjoyment out of it (probably more than most people) and other peoples' opinions don't really affect that. It's a shame some people didn't like it all that much because it's always nice to see other folks enjoying things, but hey, can't win 'em all.
Since ive completed tv at this stage im going to re watch it.
I was 21 when it started.
I think its the only tv show ive watched "live".
Still dont think any other show will come close the the fanfare this had.
I was 21 when it started.
I think its the only tv show ive watched "live".
Still dont think any other show will come close the the fanfare this had.
I agree with this. The first season aside, much of the series just felt like filler at time, leading up to the big shock moments. Then again, it was the shock moments that made the show and built it into such a phenomenon.
The shock moments had been built upto and made sense.
Neds beheading was due to him being captured cos he was a little naive.
Robs downfall was him going back on a promise he made.
Jon Snows death happened due to the watch feeling betrayed by him for getting the wildlings in.
Stannis burnt his daughter, he thought it would help, but the consequences was people leaving him and his army struggling.
Viper getting his eyes crushed was him showboating like a bond villain
Upto season 5 (and s6) the shocking parts had all been built. Even the finale of s6 with everything going up was consequences due to action.
There may have been some things which were a bit hollywood (like Arya escaping stab wounds, last min save of Jon and his army vs Ramsay) but those were pretty small and even a bit accepted.
But then it just felt like actions had no consequences at all.
I’m not disputing the shock moments, moreso that the entire series revolved around them for the most part. They could throw out any old shit for a few episodes and it wouldn’t matter because omg episode 9 is coming!!!!!1
I get you, though thats very harsh on s4. The episodes around though were quality.
Yeah there were exceptions, season 4 was very good. Season 1 for me had the most quality and depth I thought though.
Did we ever get a definitive answer for who tried to kill bran in season 1?
Jaime.
Cant remember this, can you remind me how that was confirmed?
i thought it was Joffrey but don’t remember why.
I mean the assassination attempt after
Yea I can't remember either. Ive forgotten so much
Thanks for the book spoiler.
Baelish.
It was heavily implied to be Joffrey, though we never found out for certain.
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Batman should never have saved Joffrey.
I think it was littlefinger who ordered it. He wanted it to look like it was the lannisters this framing Tyrion who won it in a card game. Also that scene in S7 with Bran staring at Littlefinger while saying Chaos is a ladder, while holding the blade was probably a big clue.
It was openly stated to be Baelish.
I may have been remembering the books, it's all kind of a blur at this point.
Rains of castamere was just on sky Atlantic
Those last 20 mins
I remember watching it for the first time and just being shocked at what I saw
Those last 20 mins
I remember watching it for the first time and just being shocked at what I saw
That was the peak of reaction videos on youtube.
Didn't like the later seasons but I agree with this. I know that this isn't exactly an original sentiment but I'm perfectly happy with where things ended up, just not with how.
It was Joffrey. Tyrion and Jaime worked it out and GRRM confirmed their suspicion.
I guess book spoilers don't matter now but from memory, although Tyrion believes that to be so (to impress big Bobby Baratheon?) and believes Joffrey's reaction when confronted confirms it, I'm not sure it's ever stated definitively in the text is it? Although if GRRM says it is so I guess it is so and it's been a while since I read the books.
In the TV show though, surely it is Baelish, at least to the extent that he arranged the assassin?
Wasn't it Littlefinger and with Tyrions dagger because he wanted to start trouble.
Actually you're right, in the show it is definitely presented as Baelish being behind the scheme. I could be wrong about the book explanation as well, but I prefer the idea of Joffrey being behind it (though from memory it was a bit of a lackluster reveal) for geographical reasons, and also it seems unlikely to me that he would have engineered the scheme while using his own knife (though LF is hardly subtle or cautious in the book when it comes to using the knife and the events surrounding it anyway).
Do you consider it a plothole that it wasnt clarified in some form or do you like the ambiguity of it all?
It was Joffery who sent the assasin.
It's the letter that starts everything in motion right?
The one that Littlefinger convinces crazy lady Lysa to write and send to her sister Catelyn Stark. The one which she states the Lannisters poisoned Jon Arryn. As that provides the Starks with a crumb of proof to begin to suspect the Lannisters.
The assassination attempt on Bran was just another notch on the belt.