What do you think would have happened if Thiago Silva was in that exact position?
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It can be interpreted in another sense, that we shouldn't have pressed in that situation to begin with.
By the look of thing, we didn't make the pitch small before Martial initiated the press. This let Melbourne had number advantage (GK to first player), and we got strung along by their play.
Disagree regarding Lindelof. Making the pitch small out of possession work hand in hand with offside trap. Dropping off would make the pitch bigger, and losing the remaining reinforcement, when defensively midfielder nearest to you like Fred in this instance had to stand and hold his position, and couldn't run back to support you.
Even if let's say it's not Maguire fault to break the offside trap, how did making the pitch big and defending the large space via footrace span out in the end?
As I've just added above, the issue is that he's a pretty good defender when defending the way he's facing, but once turned he has terrible def positioning, awareness of danger and ability to readjust his body position.
I'd expect the exact same thing to happen.
There seems to be a weird correlation between the admirers of Wreck-It Ralf and the defending of Maguire. It really is such a bizarre thing to behold. Honestly don't get it.
The difference is that the likes of VVD, Matip, Thiago Silva, Dias etc, whilst not all of them have electric pace can defend comfortable running towards their own goal. It's a prerequisite of playing in that type of system and sadly something that Maguire will never be able to do.
You don't believe Silva would have seen the danger unfolding a little bit quicker and gotten himself in a better position to at least pressure the striker more?
If you can't see that no wonder you think there is an agenda against Maguire.
Sack Ten Hag. How can he not see that that goal is one player only's fault like I'm being told on here. He's just blaming everyone else.
His body is slow, his mind is even slower and if he keeps getting picked, our high line will be getting exposed all season.
Is there a clip anywhere showing the mistake that led to the turnover? Or even better, our entire attack before they won the ball?
I've only seen replays where Melbourne have just won the ball and the counter starts. At that point it looks our defence was caught on their back foot and it was just a well executed counter.
I don’t we need to draw too many conclusions from this goal. It was poor cooperation between the two CBs but normally they wouldnt have any problems with an easy offside trap like this. It was the first minutes of the match of Harry’s first pre season game and Lindelof’s second. On top of that, the new system and the high line we are just starting to implement put some new demands to our players and if we want some change, we will need to also see some mistakes.
No. I don't.
The danger came because of three mistakes, none of which were Maguires. Unless you think Maguire (or any player for that matter) should have seen that coming, then you’re living in cuckoo land.
Even the ball down the right wing could have been easily blocked by Lindelof, not that the play should have got that far. Further, Maguire was turning while Oikonomidis had the momentum on the chase. It was also a superb ball by Folami, a nightmare to defend against.
There is clearly an agenda against Maguire. If you can’t see that then you are clearly part of that group. As a fan base, we have a terrible habit of picking out players and demonising them for no other reason than its popular to do so.
On the positive note, I think we were good at keeping possession and winning back the ball immediately every time we lost it. Harry did a good job there.
The flaw in the press started from Shaw I believe. When Elanga steps up he should have applied pressure on the passing outlet. Pressing is only as effective as the 2nd and 3rd attackers/defenders. He switched off then tried to make up for it by being aggressive but overcommitted and left us exposed. I believe we will see a lot of these mistakes where players try to unlearn bad habits.
Yes, good defenders cover for teammates. If everything went perfect then I could play in defence for Man Utd. It's amazing how easy it is to play a "superb ball" when you are playing it to a player who has been left in miles of space. Had tonnes of those played against us last season when Maguire played.
There is an agenda I guess, the agenda is basically "he performs terribly individually often and fans don't enjoy it because we like it when players do well for us"
If he regularly performed well fans would say so and be happy about it.
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Ridiculous is how some people find excuse after excuse to defend him. He is a bloody defender and the fact that attacker or midfielder lost the ball doesn't mean that his job is done. That he can say; not my fault, you lost the ball. He needs to do his fecking job. And one part of that job is to cover teammates. Any quicker or smarter defender would deal with that situation. But Maguire can't. Because he is bloody useless in this system.
If you want to park the bus then he is great.
I’m not sure if you’re being serious here.
So, unless you cover for all eventualities then all blame lies with you should the opposition score? Is that for all players or just Maguire?
Yes, your quoted posts stinks off an agenda. You’re basically saying Maguire is at fault for not anticipating three mistakes while those who were at fault for the mistakes are blameless because Maguire didn’t cover for them. Honestly. If that’s not an agenda against a player, what is?
Maguire is comfortable in a deep line defence/counter attacking football alongside to an experienced defender who call the shots. Physically wise he's the strongest CB we have since Jaap Stam, he's quite good in air and he's a good passer of the ball. Unfortunately he lack the pace, the positioning and the defensive awareness to play inside a high line defence. We need to understand that not every good player is suited to play with a top club. For example Massimo Taibi was unreal with the likes of Piacenza and Venezia, at par to the likes of Toldo. He simply lacked what it takes for a big club
All eventualities? So I expect him to cover the entire pitch at all times? See I could say that you are expecting his teammates to have 100% possession and him never having to do HIS JOB. I don't because that would be reductive.
Maybe I am saying what you think or maybe I am saying I would like for him to avoid keeping players onside on the counter and then if he does decide to do so then at least try position himself in a way he could stay with his man. I am tempted to send you 100 examples of him being horrendously out of position last season resulting in us conceding chances but I cannot be bothered. Youtube search his name and I am sure you will find them.
I said it might be an agenda, it is an agenda of us wanting our players to defend well. Your posts just make it sound like it is an irrational agenda.
Anyway Harry, get some rest. Sadly I think you have failed to point out any type of unfair criticism of yourself in the same way you fail to stand in the right position on a football pitch. By the by, congrats on the wedding.
His height couldnt save us..
Defend what?
He wasn’t to blame. If he was I’d say he was at fault. Just because people actually watch the game with their eyes and call a spade a spade then that doesn’t mean I’m “finding excuses” for him. He wasn’t at fault. Simple.
Three errors lead to that goal. THREE. Not one was Maguires yet he is the one getting all the blame. Its laughable, even more so when people claim there isn’t an agenda against him
It’s also absurd that some fans on here are saying its Maguires fault for not covering for other people’s mistakes. You say a quicker or smarter defender would have dealt with that? How? Tell me? Maguire was on the turn and Oikonomidis was already on the chase. Unless the defender player was extraordinarily quick and the attacker extraordinarily slow then there no way they’re being caught. Also, the ball from Folami was exceptionally well weighted and he couldn’t have placed it better.
Smarter how,? To know that Lindelof wasn’t able to deal with a simple through ball? Come on man. Take the blinkers off.
I can’t see him being any good with such a high line, the goal today showed his lack of recovery pace but he’s spent his whole career backing off and playing deep. He’s pretty clueless when asked to do anything else and that might take a long time to resolve.
There is only one player within 30 yards of him. Stand next to him.
Have you ever played football?
Just think about your words. Just for a second.
Let me put it this way. Hopefully it'll open your eyes to the clear agenda against Maguire. I’d bet anything that had Maguire made the mistake that Lindelof made, all the blame would still be placed on Maguire. I’m 100% certain of that.
Wait, so now you’re claiming I’m "Harry Maguire" because I disagree with you? Apologies. I didn’t realise I was talking to a child
Jesus wept. Is this seriously the lengths people are going to put all blame on Maguire.
Sometimes you talk to someone who is still a newbie despite having quite a lot of posts.
Then you realise that the people who handle promotion on here are great at their job
People go to shorter lengths than the length than Maguire leaves between himself and the opposing teams striker at least.
Him and Lindelof looked slow as feck in that goal. He was put in a weak position due to his lack of pace and acceleration, it was obvious he wouldn't keep up with the runner.
Yet some people are seemingly surprised by this.
Yet some people are seemingly surprised by this.
Sorry. You think that because I’m a "newbie” on a football forum and you’re not, that your opinion holds more water? Come on.Sometimes you talk to someone who is still a newbie despite having quite a lot of posts.
Then you realise that the people who handle promotion on here are great at their job
People go to shorter lengths than the length than Maguire leaves between himself and the opposing teams striker at least.
You’re coming across as a very immature person who can’t handle a fact that somebody doesn’t agree with them. I appreciate that social media and the likes have resulted in a mass population who are incapable off or confident enough to stand up for or create their own thoughts and beliefs. Instead they seek out the popular opinion and jump on it.
Your inability to see what’s in front of you is alarming, the ridiculous statements you’ve put down to stay on that bandwagon is beyond laughable. You then go to the “haha you’re a newbie” approach thinking it’s a way to save face after your ridiculous comments. Maybe its time to take another approach.
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Bloody hell. Defending is his job. What do you expect from defenders? To head a ball after corner and kick the ball out of danger when the ball comes to them?
1) Maguire clearly and undoubtedly showed that he is slow as feck. Not his fault that he is slow, right? Yeah, but he is slow. And that is major flaw for defender. Especially for defender who plays in high line. Just as bad finishing is for attacker or bad technique for midfielder.
2) You obviously don't know what quality defender does. You are the one who thinks that good defenders are who slide in tackles whole game and kick the shit out of attackers? Quality defenders deal with situations with good positioning and good game reading. Watch Rio, Van Dijk or Cannavaro a bit. Then you will understand.
You do realise this is the CAf? Every goal when maguire plays is his fault someway or the other. Maguire needs to be able to teleport, otherwise he is at fault for every goal.
Whats funny is Bailly made 2/3 big mistakes that led to chances and yet people are lauding his performances as if he is some WC defender.
Yes, he’s slow, that’s hardly new news. However, that’s not the point I’m making.
Three players made an error before that goal. THREE. Not one is getting the blame from the blinked fans who see everything as Maguires fault. Maguire was caught out because he, along with everybody else in the world expected Lindelöf to cut out that simple through ball. The way some posters on here are acting you’d swear no defender bar Maguire had been out run before, or was unable to stop a cross (a superb one at that)
I’ll ask you the same question that I’ve asked another poster, who failed to answer.
If Maguire made the mistake that Lindelöf did, would the blame then be on Lindelöf shoulders. Tell you what? I’ll answer it for you.
No. It wouldn’t have, you would have blamed Maguire and, yes, I would have agreed with that. That’s my issue. Too many fans are seeing what they want to see because they have a hatred for Maguire
No I think it shows that you blindly buy into your own bias and take such an arrogant tone about it is proof that the standards of the forum are in tact
You are pointless to talk to. His positioning is often horrendous, as it was for the goal today.
It really feels like he's being forced on the team to justify the price tag and the captaincy and I fecking hate it. Varane, Lindelof and Bailly are all better than him. Just admit he was a mistake and cut your losses.
Facts! He will always be a liability.
How is he being forced? Do you think the club told ETH that he has to play and have him as captain? If that was the case, he would have confirmed him as captain in his first presser.
Secondly, he is not being forced on the team, ETH has actually given every CB 45 mins in each game, so I dont get where he is forced to play him?
To be fair, this is exactly a situation where our CBs need to be ready to cover for each other and other players if we want to play with high press. We will not always be successful at winning back the ball and then on player, often a CB, has to cover. Not saying it’s easy, but it’s really part of the job.
He should not start for us, simple
There's a million threads on ole vs rangnick and lists of excuses for rangnick getting thrashed by Brighton. I'll leave it for them. On the maguire topic I don't rate rangnick and think he can be better in a much better team this season. Five mins hasn't changed my mind, especially when the team has actually been coached for long enough to improve.
I thought RR was rubbish and I think Maguire is going to be a fine option for the coming season.
Exactly, and by who? Scapegoating Maguire would be gift wrapped for the new regime to thrown the old one under the bus but instead apparently the mysterious "they" are pulling the strings.
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