It's really difficult to judge to be honest, five years ago I would have thought Scott McTominay would have been playing in the lower leagues, and Eric Bailly would be one of the best centre backs around, so it's really difficult to predict each player's trajectory. Rashford has all the tools to be a star player in a big team I think, so unless he continues to be plagued by injuries, or he regresses then I think he can still be one of the first names on the team sheet. I hope so, as he's our most exciting player to watch for me, I just hope his form in the last few months of this season was a result of injuries and fatigue, and that this isn't the best we'll get from him.
Has the cult of Rashford become more important than the player?
- Thread starter Nikelesh Reddy
- Start date
This.
Imo Rashford never benefited of being english and local on the caf. He always had and has to prove himself more than anyone. From day 1 (after his EL+PL debut goals) there were enough people in here ready to put him down as not good enough, overrated etc.
He proved them wrong again and again and will continue to do so. But they will be back after every not so good performance.
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Absolutely, I haven't seen any player during my time on this forum get a similar abuse to Martial this season. If a striker scores a goal in a game anywhere, you damn well know there's gonna be some insults coming his way.
Pogba also is an open target for many people but he has more defenders. Some people of course have agenda against Rashford too but they are easier to ignore.
Go back to see the abuse Rooney got towards the end. Ten times worse.
TBF Walcott had Henry, Fabregas, and RvP i dont think Rashford could ever be our most important player if our team was filled with players of that calibre either.
TBH i got it wrong, he's got more than 5 days break.
week 37, 5/18/21 H Fulham 28 min
week 38, 5/23/21 A wolves 0 min (on the bench)
EL Final, 5/26/21 Villarreal 120 min
https://www.transfermarkt.com/marcus-rashford/leistungsdaten/spieler/258923
On second bolded part, If we could replace a player so easily, then that player might not be our important player.
What many posters seem to ignore is the evaluation of his performances goes beyond his goals and assists numbers. No matter how bad he performs, the G+A numbers are always mentioned. The very fact he plays every game and hardly gets subbed should mean his numbers are decent at the very least. This is one of the reasons Rashford gets criticised, because he has been given untouchable status by Ole and at this club that's something reserved for the greats only. He gets criticised for bad performances and poor decision making, this is not made up criticism.
When Jose was here, Lukaku was given the same status and this was also a big reason why he received a lot of criticism. In his first season here, he also had 36 goal contributions and the caf was more against than in favour of him. Lukaku is a Belgian of Congelese descent so I don't agree nationality plays a part in it.
Absolutely. People here have very short memories. Ronaldo, Scholes, Giggs all have been criticized here. Rooney has been ostracized.
United is a football club, not a cult. And these are professional players, not deities.
In all honesty, I only feel confident with Rashford against attacking teams. He seems lost against low blocks and well drilled sides. That's why I think he is a one dimensional player.
Exactly, it's obsessive at this point, and what's stranger is that the same posters abusing these players are the same ones you'll see accusing others of not being proper fans criticising other players. There's no consistency.
This is 100%
It’s usually people a bit away from the homegrown atmosphere who don’t see the benefit in utelising homegrown players.
It’s viewed as something that holds the team back. From Mctominay, to Rashford to even someone like Maguire
They value half the same player if they play in a different country or are from a different country - yet our ones apparently hold us back.
It’s something I enjoy watching in football - from la Masia to United’s academy to Ajax etc
The arguments continue to get more and more desperate and boring
Yep he is probably as useless as KdB who missed longer periods for City but no one noticed he was actually out as they kept winning.
How dare we even think about giving Rashford a break and asking other players to step up or wanting us to buy quality to rotate with him.
Don't think thats true either.
Who has been more maligned this season McTominay or Fred? Which defender Lindelof or Maguire?
Youth players are vital I agree, and they help preserve the clubs identity, I would hate to have a first XI of 11 £100m players, however only if they are the top quality we need. For example I like McTominay but honestly if we are to be successful I think we need better than him and Fred as our central midfield. I think he is a great squad player but not at the level required for a title winning side.
If by your own admission you feel the promoted youth player is something you like and value maybe you are judging them by different standards in the other direction?
Yeah travelling and being part of the matchday squad is not a "rest" in any way shape or form, you have clearly never played football at any level. A "rest" is a fecking rest, not full training, preparing for a match both physically and mentally, travelling for a match and being ready to come into the match at any given time. A "rest" is where we literally do not see that player for a few games - so no, he did not a break in any way shape or form.
If a player, however important they are, is badly out of form or unfit then playing them to the point where they contribute nothing at all means they genuinely are replaceable. If he had been playing unfit but still contributing you'd say fair enough to a degree, but given his form got the point where he was genuinely terrible at times then yeah there was no reason we couldn't have given him a couple of weeks off and given his gametime to James, Amad, Greenwood etc.
When fans post lists like these and say he’s youngest on the list that’s glass half full… Glass half empty : Bottom of your list against the likes of Watkins, Wood and Bamford and before you say it Rashford is regularly our most forward (and static) player. This is Manchester United not Burnley Villa or Leeds... Lowest workrate on that list but still somehow still very much around the top for minutes played. That’s a problem for a big club that wants to win things now.
we are all supposed to be unanimous in our praise or else we are toxic fans. I can’t wait till Sancho takes his place or at least lights a spark under him. Yet another player who will come in and instantly work rings around Rashford. Imagine the damage another player with some actual enthusiasm and variety could do with the amount of the ball we have and the embarrassment of riches we have compared to most of the teams we face. It’s not rocket science but with Rashford it has to be. Age. Injuries. Not a striker. Martials fault, managers fault, charity works fault etc etc.
Until Rashford is fit enough to be able to press and scrap he should be out of the team. Once he gets those basics back then maybe he can expand on that and start adding some variety to what he does on the ball. Attack the back post. Score a header or a scrappy goal? Put in a few early crosses. Go on the outside occasionally. Those kinds of simple things that make life easier for your team mates and make us harder to defend against.
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HUH?The arguments continue to get more and more desperate and boring
Yep he is probably as useless as KdB who missed longer periods for City but no one noticed he was actually out as they kept winning.
How dare we even think about giving Rashford a break and asking other players to step up or wanting us to buy quality to rotate with him.
so you want Rashford to just lying on bed for days leading up to the final? "also never played football at any level"
I see that the privilege of being full member is that when youve been proven wrong you can be as pedantic as you want without worrying of receiving a warning. 
So first, I've not said he should have been given a rest directly before the final, I have said he should have been given a rest at some point within the 2/3 months he was playing every game whilst clearly nowhere near fit.so you want Rashford to just lying on bed for days leading up to the final? "also never played football at any level"
And second, you think you've proven me wrong? You are continually talking absolutely nonsense. And believe me, warnings get dished out - why do you think I'm still being so polite to someone like yourself?
well clearly having been rested for more than 6 days changed nothing, he was still as poor in the final no guarantee at all he'd perform better had he been rested more. so yeah i think resting him 2/3 months into the season would change nothing especially as he wasnt the only player who had to play in congested fixture of pandemic year. Also "someone like me"? well i wasnt the one who insulted the poster was i? I wasnt the one who accused poster of having zero experience in football in any level just because i dare to have different opinion about Rashford.
What, you're taking a comment that you clearly haven't played football as an insult? Ok whatever floats your boat.
I have explained to you how that 6 days was not a rest in any way shape or form, if you cannot understand that then I really don't know what else to say as you quite clearly have zero understanding of the human body and think footballers are either robots or that FIFA21 is accurate.
I think you are clearly underestimating what a rest can do for players. On top of that, Rashford as we all know is carrying an injury, and has done for most part of the season.well clearly having been rested for more than 6 days changed nothing, he was still as poor in the final no guarantee at all he'd perform better had he been rested more. so yeah i think resting him 2/3 months into the season would change nothing especially as he wasnt the only player who had to play in congested fixture of pandemic year. Also "someone like me"? well i wasnt the one who insulted the poster was i? I wasnt the one who accused poster of having zero experience in football in any level just because i dare to have different opinion about Rashford.
He wasn't the only player to play in a congested fixture but I suggest you go and look at the players who have played the most games in the last 12 months.
I also suggest you go have a look at the teams that had a summer break, we had 2 weeks at most. Even City had a break when they had to close down for covid.
That is the reason bruno looked tired at the end of the season too, plus Maguire injury is due to accumulation of games.
Then explain. cause you made it "traveling with squad to wolverhampton" a part of "playing game" which is laughable because (1) all he had to to was to sit on the couch (2) these players, including Rashford need to keep training in order to keep themselves fit, hence why the joke about Rashford lying on the bed in days leading up to the final.
Not really. Ive made myself clear about this. i just disagree with someone who said replacing/rotating Rashford is easy just because we had James, Amad, or Greenwood.
We will find out how true this whole "rest" and injury thing is. Players play with knocks all the time so I'm not too convinced by this reasoning. "He's been crap for months due to injury/no rest".
I think he is a very good player, probably around the level of Nani, but just very one dimensional. Still, it could be physical and needing a rest so I'll wait and see but I am slightly doubtful.
Very tiresome seeing this pop up every few posts.
No one expects unanimous praise as if the guy is a literal saint and world class player with no scope for improvement in his game.
Your last paragraph lists areas that 99% of people will agree Rashford can easily improve in. That's constructive (I doubt Sancho is going to take his place in the team, but it's hardly an outrageous viewpoint).
"The injury is a SCAM" is toxic. "Looks incompetent on the ball" is toxic (and useless). "Union Berlin wouldn't want him" is toxic. Rashbeck is toxic. The oft-repeated "focus on your football" take (and the disingenuous "hey, I'm just asking!" way of disguising it) is toxic.
As long as you're not peddling awful takes like those, no one is calling you an idiot or a traitor.
So he trained Thursday/Friday as part of the matchday squad so essentially training at full intensity, he travelled for the match and was in the squad so had to be physically and mentally ready to play a part in the match, he clearly would have warmed up before the game and probably at half time and then travelled back. It seems that you think the life of a footballer happens during the 90 minute match and nothing else?
And why isn't it that simple? Given he was clearly playing at 50/60% fit maximum, and he wasn't playing well at all, why was it not simple to rotate him out for a couple of weeks? He wasn't contributing positively to our performances due to the comination of fitness and form so there was no reason at all he couldn't have been rested for a couple of weeks. Heck, SAF used to literally send players on holiday to sit on a beach mid season if they needed a break which funnily enough contributed to us ending seasons strong.
Yeah sure, nothing to do with him being very good wide forward. Your agenda against Rashford is hilarious
Its not about being unanimous in praise at all, its seeing things in context. If rashford was made available for transfer, are you really saying there wouldnt be a mad scramble for his signature ?
A player doesnt have to be ballon d'or material or shit. Rashford is a very good player, and as he is still young could potentially become a great player.
At least we know why Ronaldo got pushed out to the left wing nowYeah sure, nothing to do with him being very good wide forward. Your agenda against Rashford is hilarious
Relax. Someone disagreeing with you isn’t automatically an agenda, it’s a difference of opinion, which we’re both entitled to. No one is saying he isn’t flexible in terms of where he can play. But being reasonably good in one position and also reasonably good in another similar position does not make him cumulatively a top class player. I happen to think he is not exceptional enough in either position to warrant any kind of key player status. You disagree, and that’s fair enough.Yeah sure, nothing to do with him being very good wide forward. Your agenda against Rashford is hilarious
For someone that plays as much as he does, I don't think this is a great return. IMO, he should be at minimum around where Son is. We wouldn't give most of those players above him as much gametime. I also consider DCL, Watkins and Iheanacho close enough to him, that age is not a factor.
The entire thread is pathetic really
Seems like most threads end up this way.
Do you think Marcus Rashford is an elite level footballer…. or do you have an agenda?
Genuinely surprised some people seem legitimately offended some have a different opinion of a player than they do to the point of rationalising it as an ‘agenda’
Genuinely surprised some people seem legitimately offended some have a different opinion of a player than they do to the point of rationalising it as an ‘agenda’
Well when posters say he only plays left wing because he’s a rubbish striker what do you expect?Do you think Marcus Rashford is an elite level footballer…. or do you have an agenda?
Genuinely surprised some people seem legitimately offended some have a different opinion of a player than they do to the point of rationalising it as an ‘agenda’
A couple of posts from 16 years ago that someone pointed out in another thread.
The point is the expectation of most football fans is ridiculously high and will almost always lead to disappointment when a player does not peform at superhuman levels every game. It's not just Rashford that has suffered from this and it's not just United fans that do it. You can see it with all players, have a bad game, loads of fans will stick the knife in, the only difference now is that those fans have a bigger platform with sites like this one and social media.
The only time a player really escapes this is when he stops playing for the club, look how opinions on Rooney have softened here, or on Beckham or even Cristiano "I am a slave" Ronaldo!
Rashford is a fantastic player, he's proved it again and again, but as always with football you're only as good as your last game.
OK, if we must do this......
16 years ago Ronaldo was 20 years old. He had played 120 games of professional football in his life and less than 100 for Man Utd. He was being legitimately criticised for diving and showboating. By 3 years later when he was 23 years old - same age as Rashford is now - he had developed into a player who scored 42 goals in 49 games and had played 240 games for us. The comparison if it has to be made should be made at the same stage in development. Was Ronaldo being slagged off for not improving or developing at 23 after a comparable number of games? I suspect not.
Its an unnecessary comparison though. Im sure there are undoubted people who will always attack our players but generally speaking expressing concern over a perceived lack of progress is not blind criticism.
I have done that and I can assure you it is 100% "hey Im just asking".
I have no idea how much of his rest time is being taken up with non-football matters and if its having any sort of effect on his focus. Maybe its not making any difference at all, or maybe his head has been turned by the positive press and the difference he has made, I have absolutely no idea but that doesnt make it an unreasonable question to ask because we cant possibly know the answer. Maybe even Rashford himself doesnt.
I do know that if he was a very high profile footballer who was high profile outside of football for something else that wasn't deemed such a worthy cause there wouldnt be any stigma at all attached to posing the question.
As has been said before, this is just as daft as asking the question ‘does Bruno’s family distract him from his football?’ Or, ‘does Pogba’s religion take away his focus from football?’.
it’s a daft question to ask to begin with. Do you ask this about all of our other players?
Yes yes I do. When a player is not playing well we look for explanations. Sitting at home with your family is not a comparable example to fronting a political cause though, or writing a book, or making TV shows, I think we would agree on that. Paul Pogba was being questioned about his Social Media as was Lingard and also his clothing range. It absolutely does happen and that was for profiles that were relatively minor by comparison. If a player has extensive outside interests the question is posed - except here apparently where posing it makes you a Tory sympathiser who would let kids starve!
You honestly think what Marcus Rashford has done for charity is more time consuming than raising a young family?
Rashford is inconsistent. He is still growing as a player, but even then he puts up fantastic numbers. I can’t get my head around some of the themes in this thread.
Im not the one comparing raising a family to what Rashford does - you are. I am raising two children right now, Im aware of what is involved but I have no idea of the personal circumstances of players who are doing that, maybe their wives and partners take the strain, maybe they employ a nanny, maybe they get help from family, maybe they do it all themselves. I dont know and dont need to know.
The point is when you see a player with extensive outside interests in the media and the various things Rashford has interests in and doing all of that coincides with him not playing so well, while the two things may be totally unconnected (and Im happy to concede that) its not unreasonable to wonder and in other circumstances with other players it HAS been asked without people being jumped on in the manner they are here just because in this instances the outside interest are worthy. None of us know how much time he is spending on other things.
@esmufc07 this is what your username would be if you were a small teenager.