This time last season Lukaku looked like he'll tear up the league, too soon to judge any side.
How much trouble are Liverpool in?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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They have no legs in midfield which makes them very vulnerable to transitions. Henderson/Milner can’t cover that space anymore and the way they play with that high line - even last year the number of Allison saves one on one was insane - it’s not sustainable.
They haven’t refreshed the team quick enough, that’s pretty obvious from their midfield last night. It doesn’t help that they signed a few squad players that have had injury problems in the past like Konate and Thiago, while keeping some of the others that should have been moved on.
I dont think it’s comparable to Klopp at Dortmund yet, but so far the recruitment has worked better than it did at Dortmund. Mane is the first big player they have lost, Dortmund obviously lost almost every key player along the way and couldn’t replace them.
I dont think it’s comparable to Klopp at Dortmund yet, but so far the recruitment has worked better than it did at Dortmund. Mane is the first big player they have lost, Dortmund obviously lost almost every key player along the way and couldn’t replace them.
They'll probably be okay. It is a transitional season for them. Klopp is too good for things to go overly sour unfortunately.
I'm not a Liverpool fan but... I think the most important position in the entire Liverpool team is defensive midfield. Funnily enough Liverpool won the game last night from the point Fabinho was playing. Without that solid base, the centre backs aren't as dominant, the full-backs don't get forward enough or get exposed and the forwards don't get the service, whole system seems to collapse.
Their bad season two seasons ago was caused by having their defence exposed by a weak midfield when Fabinho moved to centre back and they were relying on Thiago and Wijnaldum to do all the defensive work. When Fabinho moved back to defensive midfield, they were fine even with Williams and Phillips as CBs, which shows what a good DM does.
Henderson is declining badly, he used to be able to carry out that role but seems only Fabinho in their squad now can do it.
They'll finish well ahead of us. Don't get carried away by one game.
Alisson, TAA, VVD, Robertson, one of Henderson/Elliot, Fabinho, Salah and Diaz would all start in their strongest XI. Firmino and Gomez aren't the worst backups. You can't expect to have your strongest XI available at all times.
If you're counting bums like Ox, Jones and Keita as part of "more injuries than anyone else" then we had an injury crisis of our own last night missing Lindelof, Jones and Pellistri.
All teams have injuries at various points in the season. Injuries are never branded as an excuse for any other club.
The worst case scenario is we just don’t have it anymore. Firminio finished, can’t handle a press, not being able to score anymore, a weak depleted midfield, CBS who can’t partner VVD, and worst of all Klopp not getting through to the players. I reckon if you think the worst the chances of it being true are slim. Bottom line is we need a win and Salah to start scoring. Maybe after yesterdays goal he gets going and all will be right. The next game is crucial.
Eh they'll be fine. Remember United in 07/08 started with 2 draws against shite teams than a loss to City. 08/09 we also started off poorly with 2 draws a win and a loss in the opening 4 games. Just one of those things I think. They have a good chunk of unavailable players in the early parts of the season, some complacency and motivation issues maybe, but i don't think this is anything like that year at Dortmund (which was a bit of a fluke xG wise anyway).
I don't think they are in that much trouble at all (if trouble means not winning the league then everyone but City are in major trouble) but they definitely need midfield reinforcement.
Anyone could see that for the first time in years United actually had a better midfield 3 than their opponent and IMO (although there were injuries) that's on Klopp because the 3 that finished the game looked better than the one that started it (and I personally think it should have been Carvalho, Fabinho and Henderson).
I have no problem with United fans being happy with a win but I think that has more to do with the underrating of your own side and the overrating of that Liverpool 11 (especially the midfield but also Firmino) from last night.
Elliot, Henderson and Milner selection was reminiscent of the last year of the Rodgers era and will lose the midfield battle against the majority of Premier League teams , leaving their defence exposed and attack isolated.
A midfield 3 of Henderson, Fabinho is a completely different prospect but I have my doubts about how often they can get them together on the pitch due to injuries these days.
Even at their worst (with no Thiago, Matip, Konate, Nunez, Jota or Keita) they still caused you enough problems (in the second half specifically) that they could have drawn the game so I think they will be fine in the long term but they will be closer to the chasing pack (or in it) than they will be to City.
I predicted them to be 10+ points behind City by the end of the season and now I feel that I was probably a little conservative.
Anyone could see that for the first time in years United actually had a better midfield 3 than their opponent and IMO (although there were injuries) that's on Klopp because the 3 that finished the game looked better than the one that started it (and I personally think it should have been Carvalho, Fabinho and Henderson).
I have no problem with United fans being happy with a win but I think that has more to do with the underrating of your own side and the overrating of that Liverpool 11 (especially the midfield but also Firmino) from last night.
Elliot, Henderson and Milner selection was reminiscent of the last year of the Rodgers era and will lose the midfield battle against the majority of Premier League teams , leaving their defence exposed and attack isolated.
A midfield 3 of Henderson, Fabinho is a completely different prospect but I have my doubts about how often they can get them together on the pitch due to injuries these days.
Even at their worst (with no Thiago, Matip, Konate, Nunez, Jota or Keita) they still caused you enough problems (in the second half specifically) that they could have drawn the game so I think they will be fine in the long term but they will be closer to the chasing pack (or in it) than they will be to City.
I predicted them to be 10+ points behind City by the end of the season and now I feel that I was probably a little conservative.
Said before the season started that they will probably be more battling for top-four, than battling for the league, and their start to the season has confirmed this.
This is by far-and-away the worst shape their squad has been in, in years now. They have a-lot of players who have declined, and while Diaz looks ok, he's nowhere near Mane's level.
Are they in trouble? Not as such - but I see them falling away from City, and looking far worse than last season.
This is by far-and-away the worst shape their squad has been in, in years now. They have a-lot of players who have declined, and while Diaz looks ok, he's nowhere near Mane's level.
Are they in trouble? Not as such - but I see them falling away from City, and looking far worse than last season.
In the summer in the ‘Can Conte win a title for Spurs’ thread I was going back and forth with people who like to just award wins and points to teams without them having to go out and walk it. All this ‘Liverpool and City are guaranteed top 2’ stuff is bollocks. Very early days of course, but they have to come out and do it again, every year, against other teams trying to stop them. One year, they will stop them, and we don’t know which year that is until it happens. It could well be this year.
As long as 6 doesn’t go into 4, there is no ‘guaranteed CL football’ in this league. Not for any team. You want that, go to Spain or Germany.
As long as 6 doesn’t go into 4, there is no ‘guaranteed CL football’ in this league. Not for any team. You want that, go to Spain or Germany.
From the 3 games I've seen him play I think Darwin looks shit. Granted, I didn't see the Community Shield. Unless he improves a lot, they're clearly gonna be a worse team than with Mane, and that's without even considering that they might have more problems with injury/loss of form than last season.
That said, I'll be surprised if they finish lower than third unless they have a huge injury crisis. Carvalho and Elliott look ready to make significant contributions this season.
That said, I'll be surprised if they finish lower than third unless they have a huge injury crisis. Carvalho and Elliott look ready to make significant contributions this season.
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They're in big trouble when 37 year old Milner is now having to coach the greatest defender of all time on how to defend. 
Something along the lines of "You need to fcuking get out to him!
"
Something along the lines of "You need to fcuking get out to him!
"James milly Milner took a pay decrease to stay. Everything is fine.
Why didn't Fabinho start yesterday? Surprised to see him on the bench.
Milner and Henderson are like the Aldi Kroos and Modric.
I’ve heard of ‘saving yourself for the league’, but never ‘saving yourself for next years league’!
Liverpool are currently 1500/1 with Bet365 to get relegated this season. As a Liverpool fan and a person who's opinion I both value and cherish, is it worth a flutter?
Haven't you heard, they are waiting for Bellingham? This season doesn't matter.
They paper over cracks by planning ahead.
Klopp is simply is too good a manager and has built a formidable first team. They will not finish below us. I think once donkinez find his feet and they get a midfielder they will be annoyingly efficient again playing that stupid long ball from the flanks, pressing high forcing mistakes and scoring.
The fundamentals are still there, the coach is one of the best of his generation. None of the injuries are long term, and they've got some easy wins in the next few fixtures.
They'll be top 2 and may even sustain a title challenge. I've put a cheeky fiver on them winning the league (emotional hedging) although I rate their chances at 25%. And they will always be a threat in the CL.
They'll be top 2 and may even sustain a title challenge. I've put a cheeky fiver on them winning the league (emotional hedging) although I rate their chances at 25%. And they will always be a threat in the CL.
Not in trouble for top four but there's no chance they beat City to the title this season.
No idea why they let Nunes go to Wolves. All their best players are over 28 now and have developed tolerances for the PEDs. They need Jota and Thiago back desperately, their attack is stilted without them.
Diaz is also a massive downgrade on Mane. A well timed Mane goal bailed them out in so many matches last 2 seasons. Darwin will score some goals, but overall he's a huge downgrade on peak Firminho when it comes to build up play.
No idea why they let Nunes go to Wolves. All their best players are over 28 now and have developed tolerances for the PEDs. They need Jota and Thiago back desperately, their attack is stilted without them.
Diaz is also a massive downgrade on Mane. A well timed Mane goal bailed them out in so many matches last 2 seasons. Darwin will score some goals, but overall he's a huge downgrade on peak Firminho when it comes to build up play.
They should be able to do enough to justify the bus parade. I think they will get the forty points necessary.
I genuinely think they will be 7th or 8th this year.
The majority of their best players have peaked and are on the way down and the young players they have aren't ready to take over yet. I currently see it as City, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Us, Newcastle, then possibly Liverpool.
The majority of their best players have peaked and are on the way down and the young players they have aren't ready to take over yet. I currently see it as City, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Us, Newcastle, then possibly Liverpool.
Klopp is a genius for what he’s managed to get out of them but all of a sudden you compare their squad to City’s and it’s just nowhere near. They are back among the also-rans and it will be hard to adjust to that.
We’ve had midfield issues for years but I would take McFred over geriatric Milner and Henderson any day of the week, that’s a bleak midfield, they were absolutely shocking
They’ve had important players missing for what its worth, Elliot and Carvalho played well I thought and both are young players.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the end of last season broke them mentally to some extent.
They also have too many important players that are over 30, but so does Madrid so there’s also that.
They’ll look better with Thiago, Matip, Konate, Nunez and Jota back in the mix.
But even with the missing players, the fact that they were out fought yesterday should ring some alarming bells for Klopp.
As of now, they’re there for the taking, teams should be taking games to them, they have clear vulnerabilities in defence and midfield that can be exploited,
Bournemouth up next, then Saint-Maximin, good luck with that, TAA.
They’ve had important players missing for what its worth, Elliot and Carvalho played well I thought and both are young players.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the end of last season broke them mentally to some extent.
They also have too many important players that are over 30, but so does Madrid so there’s also that.
They’ll look better with Thiago, Matip, Konate, Nunez and Jota back in the mix.
But even with the missing players, the fact that they were out fought yesterday should ring some alarming bells for Klopp.
As of now, they’re there for the taking, teams should be taking games to them, they have clear vulnerabilities in defence and midfield that can be exploited,
Bournemouth up next, then Saint-Maximin, good luck with that, TAA.
Could be a lot but I think they'll make top 6 no matter what.
Top 4 fight at worst. They will recover.
all they need is to spend money to buy players
They'll be ok but no title challenge this year. There was a thread on their endemic asthma problem (must be something they spray on the training pitches triggering it) and somebody linked to some analysis on the 3 year cycles they had to follow for their treatment plans. Lo and behold, its now 3 years since the last downturn.
That, and Mane was often the guy who made the difference in those 0-0s and 1-1s.
That, and Mane was often the guy who made the difference in those 0-0s and 1-1s.
it went sour at Dortmund, it's time to get Stevie Me back
I posted the above on 30th May 2021 - I started to think I might be wrong with their quadruple run last year but looks like I might just have been out by one year.
My opinion hasn't changed. They massively outperformed due to genius recruitment and squad management by Michael Edwards and outstanding coaching from Jurgen Klopp. Everything came together for them for a glorious moment in-time despite not really having the funds or the infrastructure to compete with some of Europe's financial powerhouses.
At worst they finish in the top four. As is they're probably still bookies' favourites for second place.
It’s far too early to be writing them off for the season. I would still expect them to be up there although they may have a bit of a hangover from last season and give City a bit of breathing space.
They are not in trouble. Unless we say not winning the title = trouble.
They’ll still finish 2nd.
They’ll still finish 2nd.
same issue they had a couple of seasons ago, the squad isn't set up to deal with injuries. They've a central mid where the majority of them are over 30 in Henderson, Thiago, Milner, even Fabinho is 29. Keita who is younger reportedly wants out. Carragher said last night, Liverpool won't buy this window as their first choice isn't available. That's okay, but does that mean they sacrifice this season, because with those players in central mid, they will for sure get more injuries. They didn't spend big when they had the defensive issues with VVD and Matip, that season was a washout. Of course they will bounce back, but in a season where Arsenal and Spurs look rejuvenated, top 4 isn't a given.
I think Carragher is right with what he said last night, for a top team they get player running through on goal to freely all the time in nearly every game and that isnt good enough, City play a high line and very rarely do they get what happens to Liverpool happen to them on a regular.
I think you can get away with it for a while which they have done however that is 7 games in a row they have conceded 1st this isnt something that is only happening now because they have injuries its been happening for a while and they were getting away with it, teams are also a lot more savvy to their weaknesses Elanga in that 1st half running behind Trent on several occasions and us attacking down that side is not a coincidence his form has fallen off a cliff in the last 10 months and he doesnt get any help from Salah down that side either so is isolated a lot in 2 v 1 situations.
All that being said they'll still be top 4 i'd have thought, they have an easy home game next up Bournemouth at home if they dont get a result from that one then we can start to think this is something maybe a bit more serious
I think you can get away with it for a while which they have done however that is 7 games in a row they have conceded 1st this isnt something that is only happening now because they have injuries its been happening for a while and they were getting away with it, teams are also a lot more savvy to their weaknesses Elanga in that 1st half running behind Trent on several occasions and us attacking down that side is not a coincidence his form has fallen off a cliff in the last 10 months and he doesnt get any help from Salah down that side either so is isolated a lot in 2 v 1 situations.
All that being said they'll still be top 4 i'd have thought, they have an easy home game next up Bournemouth at home if they dont get a result from that one then we can start to think this is something maybe a bit more serious
good post, I do agree that a DM is also crucial in a system which relies on full backs. We are also having the same problem as we want to play with high full backs but have no DM to cover for it.