[stevoc]

Do you mean while dribbling? Because again, he turns the ball over less than one time per 90 minutes via dribbling.

Or do you mean in the air? Because if you mean in the air, then I agree, this is a huge weakness. He is arguably the worst player in our regular squad in the air.

If neither, could you please clarify?

Not necessarily while dribbling mate no, yes quote a lot in the air. But just in general when i watch him if we're on the counter or building an attack whenever the ball is played to Lingard he quite often gets beaten to it by the fullback and/or just gets tackled and loses possession as soon he does receive it.

This ties into my opinion that he's not really suited to playing on the wing.

Is the way we are measuring productivity solely based on goals and assists? Because, from an attacking midfield wing, I think there is a lot more they are asked to do. If we are talking about a wing in the 433, then I agree, Lingard is a very poor fit. But he is good in a 4231, excels in a 352, and I'd imagine he'd be solid in a 442.

Also, I do desire a more creative wing player that will improve our attack. Further, I'd imagine that player would cut into Lingard's minutes pretty heavily. That's totally fine by me. I'm not some blind Lingard supporter. I just think that, outside of maybe Rashford and Mata, there is an argument to play him in front of our other options. Not always, but in many situations, he is the best bet for what Jose wants to do each match.

At a club like Manchester United basically yes, Lingard has good attributes that are useful to any team. His infamous off the ball movement, his workrate tracking back etc. But those are things that should be the default bare minimum expected of a winger at United. But on top of that they have to be chipping in with goals themselves or creating goals for others at a decent rate. I just don't see how a team that has problems scoring goals and wants to be challenging for league titles can afford to have a player in a prominent attacking position who rarely scores or assists. 8 goals and assists combined just isn't enough to warrant starting around half of our games as he did last season.

The WhoScored rating is a statistical regression based on aspects of team performance with how the player played on the pitch, and how the same team looked with a replacement-level player in their place. It's pretty solid, imo. Not a perfect analysis, of course, but it does point to general production. The problem is that you do not see exactly what causes that performance. So it is important to take with a grain of salt.

So what happens when someone like me, who also has watched a lot of football (albeit not in person, just saw my first live ManUtd match on Wednesday!), comes along with a different analysis from the eye test? How do we evaluate? I am not saying stats are the ultimate measuring stick, as I hope it is clear, I have been using stats to substantiate what I see with my own eyes. But, I also do not think we should shun stats completely, as they seem to be a fairly impartial measuring tool when used correctly.

It's a simple difference of opinion mate. Stats are stats sometimes they are useful, sometimes they are not. For instance if a player like Lingard is not able to take possession of a ball that is played to him theres really no stat for that. Lots of stats are useless, others are misinterpreted or taken out of context.

Thats why i always form my opinion of players on what i actually see. If we sign a new player like Depay his stats were great but i reserved judgement on him until i had seen him play over a season. I've now watched Lingard over a number of years first in the reserves and now in the first team over the last 2-3 years and what i see is a player who is not a winger and certainly not on the right. In the youth and reserve teams Lingard always looked better playing in the centre or from the left. Thats was where he played the majority of his games, before Van Gaal's 2nd season Lingard had only ever player 5-10 games on the right.

 

[Ubermensch]

If squad player are that much good, they will find a club to become starter.

Yep, cos all the players I quoted are itching for moves. On top of that add isco 2 seasons ago, chicharito at his best for us, moura. I could go on but the point is the biggest and best command a roster of players good enough to walk into other 11's but are willing to be squad players for the chance of a shiny medal at the end of the season.

 

[TwoSheds]

Not necessarily while dribbling mate no, yes quote a lot in the air. But just in general when i watch him if we're on the counter or building an attack whenever the ball is played to Lingard he quite often gets beaten to it by the fullback and/or just gets tackled and loses possession as soon he does receive it.

This ties into my opinion that he's not really suited to playing on the wing.



At a club like Manchester United basically yes, Lingard has good attributes that are useful to any team. His infamous off the ball movement, his workrate tracking back etc. But those are things that should be the default bare minimum expected of a winger at United. But on top of that they have to be chipping in with goals themselves or creating goals for others at a decent rate. I just don't see how a team that has problems scoring goals and wants to be challenging for league titles can afford to have a player in a prominent attacking position who rarely scores or assists. 8 goals and assists combined just isn't enough to warrant starting around half of our games as he did last season.



It's a simple difference of opinion mate. Stats are stats sometimes they are useful, sometimes they are not. For instance if a player like Lingard is not able to take possession of a ball that is played to him theres really no stat for that. Lots of stats are useless, others are misinterpreted or taken out of context.

Thats why i always form my opinion of players on what i actually see. If we sign a new player like Depay his stats were great but i reserved judgement on him until i had seen him play over a season. I've now watched Lingard over a number of years first in the reserves and now in the first team over the last 2-3 years and what i see is a player who is not a winger and certainly not on the right. In the youth and reserve teams Lingard always looked better playing in the centre or from the left. Thats was where he played the majority of his games, before Van Gaal's 2nd season Lingard had only ever player 5-10 games on the right.

Pretty sure he played plenty of times on the right in the under age teams tbf. Maybe not that many in the reserves, can't remember.

2011 side with Pogba had Van Velzen, Lingard, Cole and occasionally Morrison and Wilson if I remember rightly on the wings. Plenty of left wing options there.

 

[Smores]

I don't think I've ever seen substitute players get anything but hate since i joined this place. Lingard falls into that category.

Personally i love to see them succeed. Its the only underdog element to supporting united

 

[Viral United]

Yep, cos all the players I quoted are itching for moves. On top of that add isco 2 seasons ago, chicharito at his best for us, moura. I could go on but the point is the biggest and best command a roster of players good enough to walk into other 11's but are willing to be squad players for the chance of a shiny medal at the end of the season.

William played 34 time 19 sub score 8 goals,
Sterling played 33 time 4 sub score 7 goals,
Son played 34 time 11 sub score 14 goals,
Coman played 36 times score 5 goals,
Asensio played 39 times score 10 goals
I am not sure Coman and Asensio stats are correct I check it on WhoScore.

So apart from Son and Asensio I don't think any of those player can qualify for your great squad player category.

Also those players will move once they will find better deal, William might not move as I guess he is not get better deal. Also I understand Isco would not move but he is playing for Real.

Chica is special case, and if my memories not wrong He was starter for his first 2 season where is bang lots of goal for us.

Let me ask you do you think Martial will happy to be squad player here?

 

[luke511]

I don't think I've ever seen substitute players get anything but hate since i joined this place. Lingard falls into that category.

Personally i love to see them succeed. Its the only underdog element to supporting united

He's not a substitute player though, he's more or less a first team starter.

 

[stevoc]

Pretty sure he played plenty of times on the right in the under age teams tbf. Maybe not that many in the reserves, can't remember.

2011 side with Pogba had Van Velzen, Lingard, Cole and occasionally Morrison and Wilson if I remember rightly on the wings. Plenty of left wing options there.

I didn't watch him many times in the under age teams mostly just the reserves, i always remember him playing centrally or from the left. Even whenever i saw him on loan he didn't play from the right.

 

[jking948]

So I feel like we're at a bit of an impasse. I'll respond here but let you have the last word. This has been a really fun conversation. You know your stuff.

Not necessarily while dribbling mate no, yes quote a lot in the air. But just in general when i watch him if we're on the counter or building an attack whenever the ball is played to Lingard he quite often gets beaten to it by the fullback and/or just gets tackled and loses possession as soon he does receive it.

This ties into my opinion that he's not really suited to playing on the wing.

Ahh, I misunderstood your argument! I thought you were saying he looses possession after he has it. If I read this correct, you are positing that he struggles to gain possession. I agree here. I think a big problem we had on the counterattack (only three goals scored this season when counterattacking) was that our wings could not maintain possession after receiving the through ball. Lingard was definitely guilty of this, especially because he also could not track the ball in the air. It's one reason why I'd love to add a natural wing who is good at the counterattack.

At a club like Manchester United basically yes, Lingard has good attributes that are useful to any team. His infamous off the ball movement, his workrate tracking back etc. But those are things that should be the default bare minimum expected of a winger at United.

Agreed, and unfortunately, none of the other wings have shown this. It is a big problem. If Martial would play with 75% of the effort that Lingard does then he would be the starter, no questions asked.

But on top of that they have to be chipping in with goals themselves or creating goals for others at a decent rate. I just don't see how a team that has problems scoring goals and wants to be challenging for league titles can afford to have a player in a prominent attacking position who rarely scores or assists. 8 goals and assists combined just isn't enough to warrant starting around half of our games as he did last season.

I do not necessarily buy this on a Mourinho team. Ideally, Lingard would be a squad player. That is where he should be, as an off the bench energy guy who shores up your defense. I just have not seen Martial display what United should want as a winger. He is great at link-up play, but hesitates way too much with the ball, and for some reason has lost his skill at dribbling. Perhaps it would pay to start Martial and bring Lingard off the bench? I have no issue with that. I just believe that Lingard does have a role on this club. And Mourinho playing him is not as insane as some are making it out to be.

It's a simple difference of opinion mate. Stats are stats sometimes they are useful, sometimes they are not. For instance if a player like Lingard is not able to take possession of a ball that is played to him theres really no stat for that. Lots of stats are useless, others are misinterpreted or taken out of context.

Thats why i always form my opinion of players on what i actually see. If we sign a new player like Depay his stats were great but i reserved judgement on him until i had seen him play over a season.

Right, and as I noted, I primarily base my opinion off what I watch. Then I use stats to verify or falsify my initial opinion, unless they seem incredibly off.

For example, Eric Dier, to me, has always demonstrated excellence as a holding midfielder. He does not let opponents advance. This is verified by his Patch Score, which is a regression that literally measures how much a player's marked to advances down the pitch. But, what I didn't notice, was how limited Dier was on offense. In a lot of ways, because of that, he is not significantly better than Schneiderlin. So that is how I use stats.

I've now watched Lingard over a number of years first in the reserves and now in the first team over the last 2-3 years and what i see is a player who is not a winger and certainly not on the right. In the youth and reserve teams Lingard always looked better playing in the centre or from the left. Thats was where he played the majority of his games, before Van Gaal's 2nd season Lingard had only ever player 5-10 games on the right.

As I've noted, I 100% agree that Lingard is not a winger in a 433. He has nowhere near the required playmaking and scoring ability. I do think, as a squad player under a tactician like Mourinho, he does have value as a wing in a 4231, 433, and 352. The closer he plays to the opponent's goal, however, the more problematic his limited offensive game is.

Great conversation, though! I enjoyed it!

 

[TwoSheds]

I didn't watch him many times in the under age teams mostly just the reserves, i always remember him playing centrally or from the left. Even whenever i saw him on loan he didn't play from the right.

If you didn't watch him in the youth teams why mention them?

 

[stevoc]

If you didn't watch him in the youth teams why mention them?

Well because i didn't, i never said i watched him in the youth teams i said i watched him in the reserves.

I've now watched Lingard over a number of years first in the reserves and now in the first team over the last 2-3 years and what i see is a player who is not a winger and certainly not on the right.

 

[SwansonsTache]

No one would have complained about Lingard if he was to be used as what a player of his calibre should be, cups and substitute.

Sadly these days it seems he is a starter for us though, and that is worrisome.

Though it must be said that if the experimenting with the 3-5-2 we've seen in pre-season becomes a real thing then I can see him play an important role, but he should never be a starting winger\wide forward in a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1

 

[stevoc]

So I feel like we're at a bit of an impasse. I'll respond here but let you have the last word. This has been a really fun conversation. You know your stuff.



Ahh, I misunderstood your argument! I thought you were saying he looses possession after he has it. If I read this correct, you are positing that he struggles to gain possession. I agree here. I think a big problem we had on the counterattack (only three goals scored this season when counterattacking) was that our wings could not maintain possession after receiving the through ball. Lingard was definitely guilty of this, especially because he also could not track the ball in the air. It's one reason why I'd love to add a natural wing who is good at the counterattack.



Agreed, and unfortunately, none of the other wings have shown this. It is a big problem. If Martial would play with 75% of the effort that Lingard does then he would be the starter, no questions asked.



I do not necessarily buy this on a Mourinho team. Ideally, Lingard would be a squad player. That is where he should be, as an off the bench energy guy who shores up your defense. I just have not seen Martial display what United should want as a winger. He is great at link-up play, but hesitates way too much with the ball, and for some reason has lost his skill at dribbling. Perhaps it would pay to start Martial and bring Lingard off the bench? I have no issue with that. I just believe that Lingard does have a role on this club. And Mourinho playing him is not as insane as some are making it out to be.



Right, and as I noted, I primarily base my opinion off what I watch. Then I use stats to verify or falsify my initial opinion, unless they seem incredibly off.

For example, Eric Dier, to me, has always demonstrated excellence as a holding midfielder. He does not let opponents advance. This is verified by his Patch Score, which is a regression that literally measures how much a player's marked to advances down the pitch. But, what I didn't notice, was how limited Dier was on offense. In a lot of ways, because of that, he is not significantly better than Schneiderlin. So that is how I use stats.



As I've noted, I 100% agree that Lingard is not a winger in a 433. He has nowhere near the required playmaking and scoring ability. I do think, as a squad player under a tactician like Mourinho, he does have value as a wing in a 4231, 433, and 352. The closer he plays to the opponent's goal, however, the more problematic his limited offensive game is.

Great conversation, though! I enjoyed it!

Ditto mate.

Lingard is fine as a squad player for 10-15 starts and as an impact player off the bench when the opposition are tired, but last season he was used too often from the start for my liking. Yes part of that was others under performing and to be fair i don't really consider any of other attackers proper wingers either, certainly not Mata on the right.

Martial in particular last season was disappointing but i think there were reasons for that, i think/hope this year he will be better with Lukaku up front as opposed to Zlatan. Lukaku will occupy the defence more on the right side where as Zlatan tends to drift left. Having a proper left back would help Martial also i think, when he played with Darmian he got little or no support on the overlap and was often double or triple marked.

 

[TwoSheds]

Well because i didn't, i never said i watched him in the youth teams i said i watched him in the reserves.

We both know you mentioned them, I'm not gonna bother quoting you pal. No worries anyway, I'm just of the opinion that he's just as capable (if a bit limited) on either wing is all.

 

[stevoc]

We both know you mentioned them, I'm not gonna bother quoting you pal. No worries anyway, I'm just of the opinion that he's just as capable (if a bit limited) on either wing is all.

Ok mate but i didnt which is why we both know you won't quote me. Look you were mistaken mate its no big deal it happens to us all.

Anyway i mostly agree he's competent but very limited as a winger. Slightly better on the left when he can cut in on his right in my opinion. But i think his best position is centrally, thats where i see him playing eventually though maybe not at United.

 

[Ubermensch]

William played 34 time 19 sub score 8 goals,
Sterling played 33 time 4 sub score 7 goals,
Son played 34 time 11 sub score 14 goals,
Coman played 36 times score 5 goals,
Asensio played 39 times score 10 goals
I am not sure Coman and Asensio stats are correct I check it on WhoScore.

So apart from Son and Asensio I don't think any of those player can qualify for your great squad player category.

Also those players will move once they will find better deal, William might not move as I guess he is not get better deal. Also I understand Isco would not move but he is playing for Real.

Chica is special case, and if my memories not wrong He was starter for his first 2 season where is bang lots of goal for us.

Let me ask you do you think Martial will happy to be squad player here?

If these players aren't great squad players then your standards are absurd. I would like to hear your suggestions(with examplesof what constitutes a great squad player.These players are all on another level to 'one goal' lingard and would be excellent squad players, how can you argue otherwise?

Instead of bringing lingard of the bench wouldn't you rather willian's set pieces, sterling's dribbling or asensio's finishing?
"Those players will move". That's an assumption that you pulled out of...somewhere. Historically, big teams have always had quality players on the bench, that's just logical. Whilst the aforementioned players may move (very unlikely imo), generally good teams have competitive, competent squads. As for your last point, that's what's bugging me. Martial should quite simply not be behind lingard. He's more productive and lingard has done nothing to leapfrog him imo. My question to you is how does lingard compare to the squad players I've mentioned?

 

[Lawman]

If these players aren't great squad players then your standards are absurd. I would like to hear your suggestions(with examplesof what constitutes a great squad player.These players are all on another level to 'one goal' lingard and would be excellent squad players, how can you argue otherwise?

Instead of bringing lingard of the bench wouldn't you rather willian's set pieces, sterling's dribbling or asensio's finishing?
"Those players will move". That's an assumption that you pulled out of...somewhere. Historically, big teams have always had quality players on the bench, that's just logical. Whilst the aforementioned players may move (very unlikely imo), generally good teams have competitive, competent squads. As for your last point, that's what's bugging me. Martial should quite simply not be behind lingard. He's more productive and lingard has done nothing to leapfrog him imo. My question to you is how does lingard compare to the squad players I've mentioned?

I don't rate Lingard at all but Martial (who is a talent) put himself on the bench unfortunately with his inept performances and attitude. My heart sinks when I enter OT go up stairs and see the line up with Lingard starting. The same happened with Rooney over the last few years. Yes I still support them but I support Manchester United and want us to win hence my heart sinking with these two. I'm glad Rooney is not our problem anymore and I hope the same of Lingard who for me is mirroring the rise and fall of Tom Cleverley on this forum.
I loved the season we had Hargreaves, Anderson and Nani to come of the bench. It didn't matter if we went 1 down you never felt beat as the quality of the bench was frightening. Nowadays the only game changer we have coming of the bench if our best team starts is Rashford so I fully agree with you buddy.

Ps best team in my opinion right now

DDG
Valencia Bailley Smalling Shaw
Herrera Pogba
Mykytarin Mata Martial
Lukaku

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I love Lingard as a player and under Jose he will get better with his end product.

 

[Lawman]

I love Lingard as a player and under Jose he will get better with his end product.

Can't see what you see in him Chief he is a non goal scoring or assist making attacker!

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Can't see what you see in him Chief he is a non goal scoring or assist making attacker!

He has fantastic movement, is always available to get the ball, has speed, can beat people, never hides. His weakness is he is selfless to a fault and has inconsistent crossing. Plus he is still an inconsistent finisher, with a power shot. Those are 3 things that can easily be rectified by good coaching and gain in experience. What he did upfront with Rashford vs Chelsea last season, for example is something I believe can be got out of him more consistently. Above all he cost us nothing and doesn't need to be kept happy on our bench.

 

[NK86]

When martial and mkhitrayan are on form - it's as good as having an extra player on the pitch; the opposition have to target them.

However, A player like martial and mkhitarayn when they do not score, do not assist, go way more missing that Lingard does in my opinion. They lose presence in the team and it sometimes can feel like playing with 10 players instead of 11.

Now Lingard isn't as good as these players; but he doesn't lose or gain form in my opinion. He might not be a guaranteed goal scorer or assists maker but he doesn't go completely empty / missing from the field like some of the other players do. He still is able to link play, find right positions etc.

Are you sure about that? Does Man City at home last season ring a bell? Lingard was worse than Mkhitariyan and that took some doing. At least Mkhitariyan was brought back in earlier from an injury, Lingard had no such issues. He is not someone who should start against top oppositions who can press us as he is really not that good under pressure.

If he had better stats then the issue would not be that big but his stats are awful for an attacking player for a top side.

 

[Lawman]

He has fantastic movement, is always available to get the ball, has speed, can beat people, never hides. His weakness is he is selfless to a fault and has inconsistent crossing. Plus he is still an inconsistent finisher, with a power shot. Those are 3 things that can easily be rectified by good coaching and gain in experience. What he did upfront with Rashford vs Chelsea last season, for examplrle is something I believe can be got out of him more consistently. Above all he cost us nothing and doesn't need to be kept happy on our bench.

These are all subjective qualities apart from speed. In my opinion he does have good movement so agree. His speed is nothing special. He struggles to beat men out wide. I think sometimes he does hide so we can disagree on that. Yes he is a likeable character and he came through our system but I'd rather have someone who didn't but produced more on the park for us.

 

[Viral United]

If these players aren't great squad players then your standards are absurd. I would like to hear your suggestions(with examplesof what constitutes a great squad player.These players are all on another level to 'one goal' lingard and would be excellent squad players, how can you argue otherwise?

Instead of bringing lingard of the bench wouldn't you rather willian's set pieces, sterling's dribbling or asensio's finishing?
"Those players will move". That's an assumption that you pulled out of...somewhere. Historically, big teams have always had quality players on the bench, that's just logical. Whilst the aforementioned players may move (very unlikely imo), generally good teams have competitive, competent squads. As for your last point, that's what's bugging me. Martial should quite simply not be behind lingard. He's more productive and lingard has done nothing to leapfrog him imo. My question to you is how does lingard compare to the squad players I've mentioned?

First of all, it's your standard that squad player should be scoring 14 goal and happy to be a squad player, and that where I reply.

Now as for my suggestion I give you one, how about we trust our Manager and accept what player he is select for play, rather than crying for some player? I am sure Jose is more knowledgeable then both you and me and if he select Lingard there is must be some reason.

As I assuming they will move you are also assuming those player not move if right offer come and happy to be a squad player. Yes great team has great squad player but we are not at that level yet.

As my last point, I also want Martial to play ahead of Lingard there is no way Lingard more talented than Martial.
But I want him to play when Jose think he is ready not because he is talented and should be playing.

 

[togg]

I think we should all leave Jesse alone for a while to be honest. He really is turning into the next Cleverly in terms of vilification by many on here - and having scored some really important goals in big games, one of which won us a trophy, he doesn't deserve it really does he?

 

[Ubermensch]

First of all, it's your standard that squad player should be scoring 14 goal and happy to be a squad player, and that where I reply.

Now as for my suggestion I give you one, how about we trust our Manager and accept what player he is select for play, rather than crying for some player? I am sure Jose is more knowledgeable then both you and me and if he select Lingard there is must be some reason.

As I assuming they will move you are also assuming those player not move if right offer come and happy to be a squad player. Yes great team has great squad player but we are not at that level yet.

As my last point, I also want Martial to play ahead of Lingard there is no way Lingard more talented than Martial.
But I want him to play when Jose think he is ready not because he is talented and should be playing.

Manager's know more in their pinky than I do in my entire body but they do make mistakes or compromises. In this case, mourinho forgives his mediocrity for his team morale and tactical astuteness in niche situations. That doesn't mean his good. Anyway these kind of debates are frustrating because you call me out on a point and I defend it, but when it's the reverse you either play the manager card or don't even argue the merit(suggestion for squad players)

 

[AndyJ1985]

I think we should all leave Jesse alone for a while to be honest. He really is turning into the next Cleverly in terms of vilification by many on here - and having scored some really important goals in big games, one of which won us a trophy, he doesn't deserve it really does he?

Cleverley was shit and was inevitably sold just as many predicted he would be, despite there being many who defended his shitness because he came from our academy and apparently loved the club. Lingard is just another shit player who people tolerate because he's from the academy.

 

[buckooo1978]

our new Ji-Sung Park? his productivity is similar to Park and has a knack of scoring in big games

I wonder could he do a job on someone like Park did on Pirlo that time

he does seem full of running and is solid defensively

technically (and help me out here) my memory tells me Park was a better footballer though he played in a much better side

 

[Viral United]

Manager's know more in their pinky than I do in my entire body but they do make mistakes or compromises. In this case, mourinho forgives his mediocrity for his team morale and tactical astuteness in niche situations. That doesn't mean his good. Anyway these kind of debates are frustrating because you call me out on a point and I defend it, but when it's the reverse you either play the manager card or don't even argue the merit(suggestion for squad players)

If Jose make mistake he will pay for that. But at it stand I will support his decision as I do with LVG.

As for suggestion I would rather we play someone for academy as back up then buy 30M squad player.
but if Manager persist with buying I don't have any problem.

 

[Viral United]

our new Ji-Sung Park? his productivity is similar to Park and has a knack of scoring in big games

I wonder could he do a job on someone like Park did on Pirlo that time

he does seem full of running and is solid defensively

technically (and help me out here) my memory tells me Park was a better footballer though he played in a much better side

Yes he is,
At start when we brought him he is more CM or I should say ACM, but is change his game according to SAF requirement and become very good LW.
Though lots of fans didn't rate him at that time.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

These are all subjective qualities apart from speed. In my opinion he does have good movement so agree. His speed is nothing special. He struggles to beat men out wide. I think sometimes he does hide so we can disagree on that. Yes he is a likeable character and he came through our system but I'd rather have someone who didn't but produced more on the park for us.

That's fair enough.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

our new Ji-Sung Park? his productivity is similar to Park and has a knack of scoring in big games

I wonder could he do a job on someone like Park did on Pirlo that time

he does seem full of running and is solid defensively

technically (and help me out here) my memory tells me Park was a better footballer though he played in a much better side

You are spot on.

 

[Ubermensch]

I don't rate Lingard at all but Martial (who is a talent) put himself on the bench unfortunately with his inept performances and attitude. My heart sinks when I enter OT go up stairs and see the line up with Lingard starting. The same happened with Rooney over the last few years. Yes I still support them but I support Manchester United and want us to win hence my heart sinking with these two. I'm glad Rooney is not our problem anymore and I hope the same of Lingard who for me is mirroring the rise and fall of Tom Cleverley on this forum.
I loved the season we had Hargreaves, Anderson and Nani to come of the bench. It didn't matter if we went 1 down you never felt beat as the quality of the bench was frightening. Nowadays the only game changer we have coming of the bench if our best team starts is Rashford so I fully agree with you buddy.

Ps best team in my opinion right now

DDG
Valencia Bailley Smalling Shaw
Herrera Pogba
Mykytarin Mata Martial
Lukaku

Yeah nice to see we are in agreement. Concerning our players, I always ask myself 'if player x played for team y would he catch my eye'(cheesy rhyme not intended). There's no chance I'd be itching for lingard if he didn't play for us and his defenders are liars if they claim they feel differently. Perhaps you can help me with a paradox we've observed: how is it MU's very picky, spoilt, and snobbish fans have adopted such low standards?

 

[Lawman]

Yeah nice to see we are in agreement. Concerning our players, I always ask myself 'if player x played for team y would he catch my eye'(cheesy rhyme not intended). There's no chance I'd be itching for lingard if he didn't play for us and his defenders are liars if they claim they feel differently. Perhaps you can help me with a paradox we've observed: how is it MU's very picky, spoilt, and snobbish fans have adopted such low standards?

To be fair to this forum I have found a lot of the posters very knowledgable and at times their opinions have been proven right and myself wrong so it works both ways. I haven't come across many picky, spoilt or snobbish fans to be fair. The thing with Lingard though is I feel a lot of our fans will back one of our own regardless. We have seen this with Rooney, Raphael, Fabio, Falcao, ADM and Cleverley.

 

[ROFLUTION]

our new Ji-Sung Park? his productivity is similar to Park and has a knack of scoring in big games

I wonder could he do a job on someone like Park did on Pirlo that time

he does seem full of running and is solid defensively

technically (and help me out here) my memory tells me Park was a better footballer though he played in a much better side

Ji Sun Park had way more end product. Scored or assisted in 1/3 games in PL.

 

[luke511]

our new Ji-Sung Park? his productivity is similar to Park and has a knack of scoring in big games

I wonder could he do a job on someone like Park did on Pirlo that time

he does seem full of running and is solid defensively

technically (and help me out here) my memory tells me Park was a better footballer though he played in a much better side

This reiterates the point that if these are his main strengths, he should not be playing in an offensive wing position for us, which he is.

 

[Dante]

He's not really a winger, to be fair. His best games have come when he's been used centrally as the link man between midfield and attack - picking out pockets of space and doing the running for the more creative players around him. I think the Perisic signing will make a midfielder full-time (off the bench).

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

If its is true Fellaini is leaving, I'd be happy if he drops into midfield permanently.

 

[kouroux]

If its is true Fellaini is living, I'd be happy if he drops into midfield permanently.

The midfield side of the bench even

 

[Nighteyes]

If its is true Fellaini is living

He's not that bad!

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

He's not that bad!

Autocorrect

 

[Yakuza_devils]

As many have pointed out that Lingard is a very limited player in attacking/winger roles. In club like Man Utd, these important roles should be filled with game changer like Griezman, Sanchez and etc.

However, I feel that Lingard has all the attributes to be a very good wing back (LVG tried him there before his serious injury) or fullbacks. He could be our Valencia 2 when he gained more experience and bulk up. Like Valencia he could be one of the best in his position.

For now, I am happy for his contributions as a squad player.