[cyberman]

In place of who then?

Lingard isn't really solely an attacker. Ox role maybe? Wynaldum (sp)? He works hard and his excellent movement would fit right in and would help with the midfield control that Liverpool seem s to let slip when trying to see certain games out.
Liverpool just don't attack with their front three. Isn't Milner the top assister in the CL? He gets in. James Milner.
What point are you trying to make here?

 

[T A]

Tell me by what standards is 13 goals and 8 assists poor given his position/role and not yet well-oiled team?

Stats doesn't work like that. Only the 16.5 games with 2 goals and something something that counts.

13gs - 7as +1 deflected as. Both Rashford (12gs - 9as) and Martial (11gs - 11as) beat his tally with less playing time so...

The main problem is Lingard's effectiveness has dropped so low for the entire last 4 months and it affected us in important games. We just cant keep affording an attacking player in starting XI because of his previous form. You saw how explosive Mkhitaryan was in the beginning of this season but after that he didnt produce that much anymore and even got sold in January. So why is there a double standard for different players?

 

[redflair]

Generally, he's had an excellent season and as someone who's primed him as a bargain-bucket Lamps or Freddie Ljungberg, it's great to see him finding the net on a regular basis.

But finding a team-mate on a regular basis is still a work-in-progress. If he's delighted that Jose has been picking him as a No.10 regularly, then he needs to drastically improve that side of the game as his short passing is still too casual and his loss of possession harms us on turnovers and transitions.

All in all, though a breakthrough season and let's hope he does work on that side of the game because, frankly, it's about the only thing he lacks.

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

We all know he's best as no10 or behind the striker, last few games he played form the right in a more disciplined role, still managed to get an assist and we won against Spurs in the fa cup semis, being fouled a lot of time. I prefer other player from the right for sure and Jesse should be played form the middle but let's not criticise him for being a bit inefective when he plays out of position. Smalling would hardly be as good as a rightback where he started his United career

 

[Steven7290]

13gs - 7as +1 deflected as. Both Rashford (12gs - 9as) and Martial (11gs - 11as) beat his tally with less playing time so...

The main problem is Lingard's effectiveness has dropped so low for the entire last 4 months and it affected us in important games. We just cant keep affording an attacking player in starting XI because of his previous form. You saw how explosive Mkhitaryan was in the beginning of this season but after that he didnt produce that much anymore and even got sold in January. So why is there a double standard for different players?

You are applying the same measurement for different roles in a team, that's not the way stats work. Direct comparison can only be made when all other variables are kept the same.

For example for the same players mentioned, if you compare stats like these (Squawka)

Possession score: Lingard 40.75, Martial -113.00, Rashford -106.82
Fouls Committed: Lingard 31, Martial 17, Rashford 19
Fouls Suffered: Lingard 33, Martial 27, Rashford 15
Blocks: Lingard 3, Martial 1, Rashford 0
Interceptions: Lingard 9, Martial 3, Rashford 7
etc.

You'll see a clearer picture: Martial and Rashford are winger forwards focusing in the end products when they play with not much involvement in the build up phase, closing down opponents and make in run to free up space for others. Lingard on the other hand is the box to box hybrid midfielder to enable fluidity and space in our play.

 

[T A]

You are applying the same measurement for different roles in a team, that's not the way stats work. Direct comparison can only be made when all other variables are kept the same.

For example for the same players mentioned, if you compare stats like these (Squawka)

Possession score: Lingard 40.75, Martial -113.00, Rashford -106.82
Fouls Committed: Lingard 31, Martial 17, Rashford 19
Fouls Suffered: Lingard 33, Martial 27, Rashford 15
Blocks: Lingard 3, Martial 1, Rashford 0
Interceptions: Lingard 9, Martial 3, Rashford 7
etc.

You'll see a clearer picture: Martial and Rashford are winger forwards focusing in the end products when they play with not much involvement in the build up phase, closing down opponents and make in run to free up space for others. Lingard on the other hand is the box to box hybrid midfielder to enable fluidity and space in our play.

Great post bro, this is how real argument should be working. However you forgot his position on the pitch this season is still an attacking player, mostly as a RW in last 4 months. So in fact, Lingard shares the same role as Martial/Rashford.

If his profile is a B2B midfielder, then it means we are using another Herrera as a RW. It doesnt feel right, does it? Actually i have no problem with Lingard playing as a No.8 but as a RW, your job is producing goals/asists

 

[All 3 United]

Great post bro, this is how real argument should be working. However you forgot his position on the pitch this season is still an attacking player, mostly as a RW in last 4 months. So in fact, Lingard shares the same role as Martial/Rashford.

If his profile is a B2B midfielder, then it means we are using another Herrera as a RW. It doesnt feel right, does it? Actually i have no problem with Lingard playing as a No.8 but as a RW, your job is producing goals/asists

Another performance to backup that TA is actually right... sorry guys but Lingard has been shocking for months now.

 

[el3mel]

Very very poor today. Did nothing important to influence the game and we became better when Martial entered instead of him.

 

[Adisa]

A team with him as a starting player is not capable of winning the league. It's not a slight on him but we need someone on that right side.

 

[AR87]

Not a good performance from him at all. He's rarely good on the right in a 3. Would prefer he play behind a front 2 of Sanchez and Lukaku if we're going to commit to that as the attacking trio in front of a 3 man midfield.

 

[Minimalist]

That's two games in a row he's been poor.

 

[Isotope]

Not a good performance from him at all. He's rarely good on the right in a 3. Would prefer he play behind a front 2 of Sanchez and Lukaku if we're going to commit to that as the attacking trio in front of a 3 man midfield.

He spent almost all his time drifting to the middle, and still shit there.

 

[Godfather]

He lacks consinstency so bad. Can look pretty good in some games and like a pub footballer in the next.

 

[MadDogg]

I felt the complaints about his Spurs performance were unwarranted, but he was poor today.

If we're going to continue playing a 433 then Lingard probably needs to drop to the bench. He's important in a 4231 (as is Mata), but neither of them suit 433.

 

[AR87]

He spent almost all his time drifting to the middle, and still shit.

Yeah, but the starting point is still from a wide right position. When he receives the ball in the middle where he can turn and run at the defense he's much better.

I wouldn't start him if we're sticking with a front 3 though. It's not where he's good and it makes us too predictable.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Dreadful today.

Careless with the ball and shrugged off the ball too often.

 

[Isotope]

Yeah, but the starting point is still from a wide right position. When he receives the ball in the middle where he can turn and run at the defense he's much better.

I wouldn't start him if we're sticking with a front 3 though. It's not where he's good and it makes us too predictable.

I personally think he shouldn't be starting in any type of front. To be fair, even "star" players had a shite game as well: Sanchez, Pogba, Herrera.

 

[Loublaze]

Another performance to backup that TA is actually right... sorry guys but Lingard has been shocking for months now.

I knew you couldn't wait to give us your views on his game . He was poor today but then no one really impressed. Sanchez was worse

 

[Ish]

Was poor. But so were most of them out there. Not an excuse for him though.

 

[AR87]

I personally think he shouldn't be starting in any type of front. To be fair, even "star" players had a shite game as well: Sanchez, Pogba, Herrera.

I think that's fair. I like Lingard in "big matches" if we're playing him centrally, but in a match like this I totally agree that I wouldn't start him.

And also, yeah, everybody was a bit off the boil today. I do think Pogba was better than the rest and Martial as well when he came on, but generally think you're right.

 

[All 3 United]

I knew you couldn't wait to give us your views on his game . He was poor today but then no one really impressed. Sanchez was worse

Tbf Sanchez was poor but he has had some good/great games recently. However I just don’t see that in Lingard, he gets in great positions and reads the game well but we need him to do just the basics well and he doesn’t do that. He gets pushed off the ball too easily, misplaced passes are all too common, shoots when better options are on, plays the ball too far in front or behind his team mates and really slows down our play. Personally I’d love to seen him do well, particularly as a home grown, warrington lad but feel rashford should be starting ahead of him (and by some distance now).

 

[Freak]

He’s been a bit pointless these past few games. Runs around a lot without much else. He needs to improve.

 

[Andycoleno9]

The fact that he has advantage in front martial and rashford is annoying.

 

[AP88]

Should be a Solskjaer-esque super sub, with a view to making an impact against tired legs because he’s simply not good enough to start regularly for a team with elite aspirations.

 

[James Peril]

He just isn’t very good. I like his drive and passion, good mentality and always looking for action, but his vision and passing is sub-par. Not sure if we can compare the two, but our attacking play would be so much better with Griezmann. I am extremely disappointed we didn’t get him in last summer.

It goes without saying that a team will not prosper in the Champions League when Lingard is starting every other game.

 

[Devil may care]

He was a yard off today, couldn't keep hold of the ball.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Yea he was a bit poor, erratic with the ball and kept overrunning it. Not like his usual self.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He was a yard off today, couldn't keep hold of the ball.

He's fine when no-one challenges him, but the second I see a player coming to put pressure on Lingard I know he's gonna lose it 9 times out of 10. Why can't the club manage to bulk the lad up a bit? One of the weakest players on the ball I've seen at United.

If football was non contact he'd be fecking awesome.

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

played out of position again today and the tempo of the game didn't help him but that doesn't excuse him from being this poor,Sanchez on the otherside was also poor and shocking first 20 mins, think it is time for Martial and Rashford getting some minutes..

 

[bosnian_red]

Hes been awful for a while now. Had a decent game against Swansea, but that's it in the 10 games weve played since he got subbed on and scored vs Chelsea. To be fair to him, he isnt a winger at all and I personally think a 433 doesnt suit him, but it suits the rest of our team more, so sucks. Really shouldn't be more then a sub to play as the 10 and change system when needed, but never ever should start on the right of a front 3. Just useless there.

Will be dreading it if he gets the nod over rashford or martial in the FA cup final. Very useful as a #10, but shouldn't be used in any other formation.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Thought he never deserved the criticism he got vs Spurs, but he has been quite poor for some time now in truth (aside from that game). Like a few have mentioned, he isn't of the quality to be a constant starter in this team, we must get better in Summer. That being said, he is a great squad player to have. But that's the ceiling.

 

[Bwuk]

He’s poor out wide. This is nothing new.

 

[James Peril]

He’s poor out wide. This is nothing new.

That is true, but it doesn’t hide the fact that his pass and touch sucks. There was a very good chance at 1-0 in the first half where he messes up completely, typical Lingard. A better player serves a better pass and it’s 2-0, the game’s done and dusted. Especially after seeing City before our game, it’s exceptionally evident that a great team needs players that can slot the right passes at the right time. Lingard is not that player, he really doesn’t have that high ratio in vital situations.

 

[Adisa]

He didn't really play out wide. Spent vast majority of the game if field like Sanchez.
It kills us at times. The centre is too congested.

 

[van Nistelrooy]

Did the stewards find him before they locked up Old Trafford tonight?

 

[breakout67]

Not good enough starting wide, and just about good enough through the middle. Would want an upgrade on him in the likes of Griezmann or Dybala.

 

[ash_86]

He's had a good season but we should look to upgrade on him. If Ox is worth £40m , wouldn't he fetch similar money? Could go a long way in investing on a proper RW

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

He's had a good season but we should look to upgrade on him. If Ox is worth £40m , wouldn't he fetch similar money? Could go a long way in investing on a proper RW

You can't sell him I don't think, even for squad harmony purposes. Having a local lad in the squad who is very popular in this dressing room and a half decent player is invaluable IMO. We do need to sign someone of more quality though for the big games.

 

[Lawman]

You can't sell him I don't think, even for squad harmony purposes. Having a local lad in the squad who is very popular in this dressing room and a half decent player is invaluable IMO. We do need to sign someone of more quality though for the big games.

Yeah agree with this I’m not a big Lingard fan but he’s proving his worth in the squad this season, but we need better for starting 11.

 

[haram]

Find it difficult to criticise him that much when he plays wider, I think it's obvious he is just better in central positions.