[edcunited1878]

This is the Lingard thread if I'm not mistaken, that is why I'm focusing on him as it was brought up in the discussion. I said it was part of the problem, other part of the problem is the so called first-team players like Mkhitaryan are very inconsistent, as was our way of playing with Ibra on which i agree with you. Lingard has played much less this season, which is understandable and as it should be.

On the part that he's looked like a threat I won't agree. He started in our two defeats this season, and looked nowhere like a threat. He looked good against Burton and scored two very good goals against Swansea, but his overall game was average as usual. And that is me being objective as I could be. He failed simple through balls, can't beat a man 4/5 times and that against better and more organized opposition will be punished and evident.

He is judged on the here and now. He is 25 in a month, he is as good as he will ever be, which is not good enough. You can improve as much, you can't improve your natural ability at 25. Maybe some on here have different definition of squad player, but I don't think we should have squad players who can only contribute as little as Lingard. I'm all for giving chances to our youth as long as they are good enough or are going to be good enough. Lingard is not good enough and at 25 will never be, in this present situation he does more against our youth policy than in favor of it.

Managers can be wrong too, and you can always form your own judgement. The fans will be happy when we are back at winning titles and our attack is filled with attackers who will bring those titles here, not when the manager and DOF are happy with giving 100k a week to Lingard to contribute a little as he has done.

Lingard is a squad player for United and has a role under Jose. What he makes in wages isn't relevant. His age isn't relevant either.

What is good enough for you? Zero transfer fee, good teammate, good squad player. We know his limits are as a bench player and cup rotation player. He's come up in moments that justify his inclusion in the squad and offers pace and movement and intelligence off the ball when that is necessary. Having the same type of player never helps.

 

[Kostov]

Lingard is a squad player for United and has a role under Jose. What he makes in wages isn't relevant. His age isn't relevant either.

What is good enough for you? Zero transfer fee, good teammate, good squad player. We know his limits are as a bench player and cup rotation player. He's come up in moments that justify his inclusion in the squad and offers pace and movement and intelligence off the ball when that is necessary. Having the same type of player never helps.

How about some footballing contribution? We can find a cheaper friend for Pogba

On a serious note, a good squad player should contribute more, push the first team players for their places and therefor create competitiveness. That why it's ideal to bring younger players as they more often that not, will be happier to play those roles. And if the first team players are not good enough we should upgrade them also, not use it as benchmark for limited players to steal a living from the club. That is if we want to be back where we belong, if not we can keep Pogba and Rashford's best buddy and at least you will be happy.

A question for you and anyone who doesn't agree with my opinion on Jesse. Can you name me a less talented attacker or someone of the same position who played for Manchester United as much as Lingard in the last 15 years? I seriously failed to think of one, but it's been a long day and my memory betrays me.

 

[edcunited1878]

How about some footballing contribution? We can find a cheaper friend for Pogba

On a serious note, a good squad player should contribute more, push the first team players for their places and therefor create competitiveness. That why it's ideal to bring younger players as they more often that not, will be happier to play those roles. And if the first team players are not good enough we should upgrade them also, not use it as benchmark for limited players to steal a living from the club. That is if we want to be back where we belong, if not we can keep Pogba and Rashford's best buddy and at least you will be happy.

A question for you and anyone who doesn't agree with my opinion on Jesse. Can you name me a less talented attacker or someone of the same position who played for Manchester United as much as Lingard in the last 15 years? I seriously failed to think of one, but it's been a long day and my memory betrays me.

Lingard was the beneficiary of staying fit, a thin squad and a squad that was still being turned over from Fergie, Moyes and LVG during last year. It wasn't a good squad in the league, hence why United finished 6th last year. Everyone knew he shouldn't have played all those matches, especially as a starter and now why he's not starting as much this year, especially in the league. Lingard has only played 191 minutes in the league this year, 7 appearances from 9 squad selections. But the circumstances of attrition, player turnover was in his favor.

Lingard is pushing Mata would you not agree with that? United have a serious hole at right wing/right midfield. Mata isn't all that anymore and Mkhitaryan is playing behind the main striker, which shouldn't always be the case, but that's not the point of this thread. If Jose got Perisic, then Lingard would probably see less time in the league, but that's not the case because Perisic obviously isn't here.

On a serious note, Lingard is a squad player. He starts too much in the league and that's more an indication of the quality or lack thereof in the first XI and the positions he takes up.

Lingard by the seasons (age) - In the match day squad / appearances / total minutes - Premier League
13/14 (20) - 1 / 0 / 0
14/15 (21) - 1 / 1 / 24
15/16 (22) - 25 / 25 / 1,634 - 19 starts, 6 sub - United finished 5th
16/17 (23) - 32 / 25 / 1,366 - 18 starts, 7 sub - United finished 6th
17/18 (24) - 9 / 7 / 191

 

[don't sign old players]

I would be sad on the day we sell Lingard. I'm kind of hoping it doesn't happen.

 

[Pace Abuser]

If you opened up a dictionary of phrases, Lingard's face would be next to "even a broken clock is right twice a day."

 

[Kostov]

Lingard was the beneficiary of staying fit, a thin squad and a squad that was still being turned over from Fergie, Moyes and LVG during last year. It wasn't a good squad in the league, hence why United finished 6th last year. Everyone knew he shouldn't have played all those matches, especially as a starter and now why he's not starting as much this year, especially in the league. Lingard has only played 191 minutes in the league this year, 7 appearances from 9 squad selections. But the circumstances of attrition, player turnover was in his favor.

Lingard is pushing Mata would you not agree with that? United have a serious hole at right wing/right midfield. Mata isn't all that anymore and Mkhitaryan is playing behind the main striker, which shouldn't always be the case, but that's not the point of this thread. If Jose got Perisic, then Lingard would probably see less time in the league, but that's not the case because Perisic obviously isn't here.

On a serious note, Lingard is a squad player. He starts too much in the league and that's more an indication of the quality or lack thereof in the first XI and the positions he takes up.

Lingard by the seasons (age) - In the match day squad / appearances / total minutes - Premier League
13/14 (20) - 1 / 0 / 0
14/15 (21) - 1 / 1 / 24
15/16 (22) - 25 / 25 / 1,634 - 19 starts, 6 sub - United finished 5th
16/17 (23) - 32 / 25 / 1,366 - 18 starts, 7 sub - United finished 6th
17/18 (24) - 9 / 7 / 191

I agree that Lingard benefited from staying fit in a squad that still needs improvements especially in attack. But in this moment he is pushing no one out of the starting line up, they are pushing themselves out. Mata was never all that, good guy, good player, but never reached the level we were hoping for. Mkhitaryan is inconsistent but our best bet, we have no one better.

Just take a look in the match against Huddersfield, we conceded the first goal mainly because of Mata, he was pathetic as he was against Benfica. What did Lingard? Did he impress you with his play? Did he really look like he should start the match against Tottenham? No he did not.

Lingard does play very few minutes I agree and that should be a continuing trend in the future until he is replaced by someone better. The natural thing to do is by bringing someone younger with potential to reach the level we hoped Lingard would have.

That bolded part I agree completely, but as I look at things, the right way to improve the squad is by bringing a quality first team players and the ones that are currently first choice to be demoted squad players, by that I mean Mkhitaryan and Mata. And that shows how much i rate Mkhitaryan and Mata, never mind Lingard.

 

[Siorac]

This thread reminds me of the Darron Gibson debates. I looked into some of the old threads on him and the similarities of the arguments - bot for and against - are quite remarkable.

 

[K2K]

Might start today.

All the best to him.

 

[fellaini's barber]

The man is shite

 

[Bojan11]

Pathetic can't even outrun anyone even when he's got a head start.

I mean Eriksen was chasing him.

 

[Minimalist]

Pathetic can't even outrun anyone even when he's got a head start.

I mean Eriksen was chasing him.

More significantly he didn’t bring it in centrally to draw the foul or just give himself a better angle. Might be an attacker but even after two goals midweek it’s hardly the mark of a goalscorer.

 

[N2402]

he's always scared he'll get taken out, £100k per week for a league cup player

 

[luke511]

Proof he's a fraud when it comes to having pace.

 

[Raoul]

Get off his arse you fecking losers. We won.

 

[Utdstar01]

More significantly he didn’t bring it in centrally to draw the foul or just give himself a better angle. Might be an attacker but even after two goals midweek it’s hardly the mark of a goalscorer.

Yeah was shocking tbh. He just cowardly took the easy option. Should get a bollocking.

 

[El Zoido]

He’d have been fine had he not kept constantly looking over his shoulder.

 

[AndyJ1985]

As long as he can score a goal or two in the league cup who cares if he doesn't score in a tinpot competition like the premier league?

 

[Godfather]

Cut back and it would have been an easy pass to Lukaku. He constantly shits his pants in these situations.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Not good enough. But we all knew that already, didn't we.

 

[NinjaFletch]

My take from that game with regards to Lingard is I think he showed more than enough to justify starting over Mkhitaryan at the minute.

At the very least you'll get the level of commitment and desire that you need to play for this club from Lingard.

 

[Raoul]

As long as he can score a goal or two in the league cup who cares if he doesn't score in a tinpot competition like the premier league?

You seem obsessed with negativity when we win and when we lose. Give it a rest. Its getting tedious.

 

[Zlatattack]

Good performance today. He doesn't have consist end product but he is direct and was key to keeping the Spurs defenders on the back foot since he came on. It releaved a lot of pressure.

 

[M Bison]

Great ball in for Lukaku's header. Should have done better with the chance when through on goal (i.e. made the GK work) but wasn't easy running at full pace and under pressure in fairness.

Always a useful option for me and i was pleased to see him replace Miki, don't understand the hatred towards him whatsoever.

 

[Home&Away]

Good performance today. He doesn't have consist end product but he is direct and was key to keeping the Spurs defenders on the back foot since he came on. It releaved a lot of pressure.

Exactly this - his end product is off but he makes the runs that mkhitarayan doesn't & makes us turn consistently from 2 upfront to 3.

 

[Strats]

He is just as shite as Mkhitaryan imo. Shouldn't be involved in PL games at all.

 

[villain]

Came on and provided energy when we needed it. He's using his squad player status well imo.

 

[All 3 United]

He did better than mkytarian but we need a new top draw Number 10. Griezman....

 

[Zlatattack]

Exactly this - his end product is off but he makes the runs that mkhitarayan doesn't & makes us turn consistently from 2 upfront to 3.

When mikhi was on the pitch he didn't get forward often enough, Spurs were practically at the halfway line.

What we need now is someone who can do trickery, passes, directness and end product.

 

[sammsky1]

Fantastic cameo from him. Completely changed the tempo of the game up front as soon as he came on.

Really happy with him this past week.

 

[Home&Away]

When mikhi was on the pitch he didn't get forward often enough, Spurs were practically at the halfway line.

What we need now is someone who can do trickery, passes, directness and end product.

Which should be happening from one ball playing defender and 2 of our midfielders.

 

[Oscie]

Did okay. Still an unnerving and I think undeniable vagueness to any accurate attempts to define what it is he does well. Still if Mkhitaryan is going to continue to be sloppy he'll continue to get a chance.

 

[sammsky1]

Be kind. I'm entitled to my opinion, i just don't rate him at all. We won, mate.

it's an idiotic opinion.

 

[Kostov]

it's an idiotic opinion.

What are you, some meter man who tells what opinion is idiotic and what isn't ?

He did one good cross, for some that is enough, for some it isn't

 

[Raoul]

Fantastic cameo from him. Completely changed the tempo of the game up front as soon as he came on.

Really happy with him this past week.

Great cross to Lukaku. Could've done better with his finish but we will give him a pass after his midweek brace.

 

[el3mel]

He was good actually, but why can't he finish except in Cup games ?

 

[Strats]

it's an idiotic opinion.

Okay then.

What are you, some meter man who tells what opinion is idiotic and what isn't ?

He did one good cross, for some that is enough, for some it isn't

This.

 

[Verminator]

We had completely conceded midfield until he came on. Was great playing with eleven men for a change.

His one on one was poor, but I think he was waiting for Lukaku to get forward. Carpe diem Jesse.

 

[11101]

He makes the runs to create space for others, which is something we need more than ever with Pogba out. Hes not really ever going to be more than a squad player for us though is he.

 

[sammsky1]

Okay then.



This.

is that your best defence to your idiotic comment? Some justification might help you.

 

[Oscie]

is that your best defence to your idiotic comment? Some justification might help you.

Maybe he doesn't feel the need to justify himself to someone who referred to Lingard's performance as "fantastic".

He did okay but on the idiotic spectrum you might be at the other end but you're certainly on it with those choice of words. If that was "fantastic" then I struggle to see how you manage to avoid death by repetitive orgasm when you see a player actually perform well.