[The United]

Also people forget the fact that we have been generally shit in last 3 years and had some record low scorings for past 2 years yet he is pulling those kind of numbers.

Sometimes people are too fickle and conveniently forget about things like that when they want to put a player down. When they want to hype a player, you would see them pulling all the stats and making excuses.

 

[dichinero]

I'd like for him to stay and see how this season goes at least. I agree he is a bit of a luxury player due to his physique and he will need for the team to built around him, in the sense that he would have other players doing the graft around him. But this still doesn't mean he is a poor player because of that. He's slow, he's weak, blah blah. What have the fast and supposedly physical players done for us in the couple of seasons. What he lacks in size ( something he can't do anything about) he fairly makes up for it in other aspects. On the other hand, the so called strong players are not lifting the roof with their awesome technique.

 

[dichinero]

Also people forget the fact that we have been generally shit in last 3 years and had some record low scorings for past 2 years yet he is pulling those kind of numbers.

Sometimes people are too fickle and conveniently forget about things like that when they want to put a player down. When they want to hype a player, you would see them pulling all the stats and making excuses.

Typical Caf.

 

[The United]

I'd like for him to stay and see how this season goes at least. I agree he is a bit of a luxury player due to his physique and he will need for the team to built around him, in the sense that he would have other players doing the graft around him. But this still doesn't mean he is a poor player because of that. He's slow, he's weak, blah blah. What have the fast and supposedly physical players done for us in the couple of seasons. What he lacks in size ( something he can't do anything about) he fairly makes up for it in other aspects. On the other hand, the so called strong players are not lifting the roof with their awesome technique.

My take on about him is similar that he wont be good enough for us to build the team around. But he is far from a shit player like some people saying he is. Also, our squad is thin and lack of creativity.

Unless we are getting some big names who are sure to perform for us (no one knows), no point getting rid of players like mata or blind etc who have been performing decently for us. At least we know how exactly they will do for us.

 

[ti vu]

So basically you are saying it is first touch, close control? Silva has been better overall in EPL no doubt. But to say that Mata close control and first touch are shit is a bit ridiculous. He has them as good as anyone in EPL. Also mata is all about final ball which is eh play making? And shoot only? hello? football is all about scoring. Not to make hollywood passes around all day. no?

Where did I say shit? You made shit up and point it at me. I said Mata is not a real #10 for us. He is similar to SAF's latter year Rooney who master the art of final pass, scoring. Doesn't mean shit at all. But for true play maker, you see Iniesta, Messi, Ozil, James Rodriguez... all has the play maker touch, that protect the ball well, elegant on ball, even in tight space to beat the defenders.

Ironically your sarcastic tone betrays you. It's the lack of shooting that was last 2 years problems. And no, play making is not final ball only. Invest a went through a period of nearly a year without a goal or an assist, and he was still one of the best play maker in the world. Play making makes "play". Shift the defense off by touch, dribble in tight space, turn to throw marker off to create space for yourself and draw more defenders out of their defensive positions, dis organizing their system. There space's created for your teammate, a play for your teammate and your self to attack. No need for Hollywood pass. Patient, accuracy pass Play maker doesn't necessarily the assist or goal.


A less final ball video that illustrate the play making.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I'd like for him to stay and see how this season goes at least. I agree he is a bit of a luxury player due to his physique and he will need for the team to built around him, in the sense that he would have other players doing the graft around him. But this still doesn't mean he is a poor player because of that. He's slow, he's weak, blah blah. What have the fast and supposedly physical players done for us in the couple of seasons. What he lacks in size ( something he can't do anything about) he fairly makes up for it in other aspects. On the other hand, the so called strong players are not lifting the roof with their awesome technique.

Agreed. There are others I'd ship out before him. Yes, he might not have been at his best since he signed, however, he's still contributed handsomely towards the end results.

 

[anant]

He is probably our best player technically. There are much bigger problems that need to be addressed before we even think of shipping him.

 

[The United]

Where did I say shit? You made shit up and point it at me. I said Mata is not a real #10 for us. He is similar to SAF's latter year Rooney who master the art of final pass, scoring. Doesn't mean shit at all. But for true play maker, you see Iniesta, Messi, Ozil, James Rodriguez... all has the play maker touch, that protect the ball well, elegant on ball, even in tight space to beat the defenders.

Ironically your sarcastic tone betrays you. It's the lack of shooting that was last 2 years problems. And no, play making is not final ball only. Invest a went through a period of nearly a year without a goal or an assist, and he was still one of the best play maker in the world. Play making makes "play". Shift the defense off by touch, dribble in tight space, turn to throw marker off to create space for yourself and draw more defenders out of their defensive positions, *** organizing their system. There space's created for your teammate, a play for your teammate and your self to attack. No need for Hollywood pass. Patient, accuracy pass Play maker doesn't necessarily the assist or goal.


A less final ball video that illustrate the play making.

Are you still talking shit?

 

[AndyJ1985]

I don't think he has much of a future at our club, which I think is a shame. With two good wingers around him and a clinical striker I think he has plenty to offer in the #10 position. If nothing else he could be an excellent backup option to have. But if we can get a decent chunk of money for him then I expect he'll be off.

 

[ti vu]

Are you still talking shit?

You're the shit talker from the beginning. Bitch please.

 

[The United]

You're the shit talker from the beginning.

Sure.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Has someone seen Ozil this Euro Cup? That' a bit of what we should expect from a no 10. Mata is just a tidy player, with tidy passing and good finishing. Not good enough to be our play maker because of his quite average dribbling, lack of strength, balance, and his quite cowardly passing (also the reason why Iniesta, Silva, Cazorla, Isco are all ahead of him in Spanish NT), we all know that he is nowhere near good enough to play on the wing. The only position where I think he could play for us is in an attacking line up, just behind the striker. He's a clever player, makes good runs, is a good finisher and still has a lot of technique and skill, some kind of Bergkamp role.

 

[The United]

Has someone seen Ozil this Euro Cup? That' a bit of what we should expect from a no 10. Mata is just a tidy player, with tidy passing and good finishing. Not good enough to be our play maker because of his quite average dribbling, lack of strength, balance, and his quite cowardly passing (also the reason why Iniesta, Silva, Cazorla, Isco are all ahead of him in Spanish NT), we all know that he is nowhere near good enough to play on the wing. The only position where I think he could play for us is in an attacking line up, just behind the striker. He's a clever player, makes good runs, is a good finisher and still has a lot of technique and skill, some kind of Bergkamp role.

To be fair, the same ozil has been laughed at so many times on this forum for being a bottler when arsenal needed him the most etc. Mata was rated very highly on this forum a few years back. Also, it is not exactly a shame that you can't get in spanish midfield in that kind of generation.

My point is people are just a bit fickle. We tend to think our cows are not as good as other cows outside of our fence till they become ours and so on.

 

[Sammyjunn]

To be fair, the same ozil has been laughed at so many times on this forum for being a bottler when arsenal needed him the most etc. Mata was rated very highly on this forum a few years back.

My point is people are just a bit fickle. We tend to think our cows are not as good as the other cows outside of our fence till they become our cows and so on.

He still is a bit of a bottler in a lot of big games, no question about that. But couldnt that last point you made be relevant to Mata as well. I'm not sure if a lot of people actually watched him or just checked his amazing stats. He's still a very good footballer, undoubtedly but he's not a play maker like Ozil, Silva, Eriksen, Cazorla etc, he has the same build but is more of a clinical player in the final third.

 

[Nighteyes]

That' a bit of what we should expect from a no 10. Mata is just a tidy player, with tidy passing and good finishing. Not good enough to be our play maker because of his quite average dribbling, lack of strength, balance, and his quite cowardly passing (also the reason why Iniesta, Silva, Cazorla, Isco are all ahead of him in Spanish NT), we all know that he is nowhere near good enough to play on the wing. The only position where I think he could play for us is in an attacking line up, just behind the striker. He's a clever player, makes good runs, is a good finisher and still has a lot of technique and skill, some kind of Bergkamp role.

My issue is this pretty much describes Mkhirtyan as well except he's quicker. He's not a playmaker but in a counter attacking setup he would have racked up very good numbers. Even at Chelsea he spent quite a lot of time drifting in from the right wing.

 

[Sammyjunn]

My issue is this pretty much describes Mkhirtyan as well except he's quicker. He's not a playmaker but in a counter attacking setup he would have racked up very good numbers. Even at Chelsea he spent quite a lot of time drifting in from the right wing.

I can see where you're coming from, although I think that Mikitaryan being quicker, more explosive, a better dribbler with more power in his shooting as well, gives him a bit more dynamism in his play that Mata lacks. But it remains to be seen how we'll play under Mourinho. Will he continue on the van Gaal road and try to make us an excellent possession based side, will he try to make us a very fast attacking team who create loads of chances (we would need some better players for that), or an all round balanced side like Chelsea 2014-2015.

 

[The United]

He still is a bit of a bottler in a lot of big games, no question about that. But couldnt that last point you made be relevant to Mata as well. I'm not sure if a lot of people actually watched him or just checked his amazing stats. He's still a very good footballer, undoubtedly but he's not a play maker like Ozil, Silva, Eriksen, Cazorla etc, he has the same build but is more of a clinical player in the final third.

It depends on if you want to make things a bit complicated and call what kind of stuff as play making. When LVG talks about his philosophy, people were annoyed coz he was making things too complicated.

Then people would complicate things themselves when they want to hype/put down a player as I said earlier. If an attacking player is making/scoring goals enough, he is good enough for that team generally. No need to over-analyse it just because you don't want to admit that he has been good at it or you want someone else.

Also we see mata often so we know exactly what his weaknesses are (in some cases with some people, they only see those) and tend to overplay them to complain while almost the opposite is true with players from other teams because you don't watch them enough or not with same passion as you would with your team. You will hear more or less complains from some fans of those teams about their players's weakness and wish they could get a better player at some point.

 

[jem]

If we were to sell him today we would get embarrassing money like 18m euro, perhaps 25m euro for a package of him and Fellaini. I rather let him go on a free than have that humiliation.

Why would that bother you?

 

[dichinero]

Ironically your sarcastic tone betrays you. It's the lack of shooting that was last 2 years problems. And no, play making is not final ball only. Invest a went through a period of nearly a year without a goal or an assist, and he was still one of the best play maker in the world. Play making makes "play". Shift the defense off by touch, dribble in tight space, turn to throw marker off to create space for yourself and draw more defenders out of their defensive positions, *** organizing their system. There space's created for your teammate, a play for your teammate and your self to attack. No need for Hollywood pass. Patient, accuracy pass Play maker doesn't necessarily the assist or goal.


A less final ball video that illustrate the play making.

I see a point that you are trying to make here that a playmaking is more than making assists but more of making key passes and generally setting the attacking tone for the team. Modric, one of the best play makers has a relatively low assist rate but is still a top playmaker. But for him to still be an effective playmaker, he needs the runs of his team mates. All the players you have mentioned flourish through the centre generally and do not have the task of having to always be defensively alert out wide. How much room to open up play do you think Modric will have available if he was shifted out wide, in a rigid formation? Have you ever wondered why Mata seems lost out wide until he drifts into the middle? The lack of shooting wasn't the biggest problem imo but movement and runs.

Having players like Rooney up front, who instead of making forward runs drops deeper starts ball hunting all over the park to curb his itchy feet or Fellaini (bless his absolute inability) who is just Fellaini, or the lack of runners from the middle of the park, what would you expect from a physically weaker player on the ball? He will either hold on to it waiting for a run that would never happen and get knocked off, or simply look for a safe pass that the CAF now refers to as cowardly.

The best time to make use of Mata was when Rashford came into the scene in the place of Rooney and was making some runs but instead we opted to keep Mata out wide and use Lingard as a #10.

My point is that Mata, though the best player, thrives on runs, It's no wonder that most of his goals have come from him making runs into the box. I'm sure he would love if more players did that instead of him.

 

[ti vu]

I see a point that you are trying to make here that a playmaking is more than making assists but more of making key passes and generally setting the attacking tone for the team. Modric, one of the best play makers has a relatively low assist rate but is still a top playmaker. But for him to still be an effective playmaker, he needs the runs of his team mates. All the players you have mentioned flourish through the centre generally and do not have the task of having to always be defensively alert out wide. How much room to open up play do you think Modric will have available if he was shifted out wide, in a rigid formation? Have you ever wondered why Mata seems lost out wide until he drifts into the middle? The lack of shooting wasn't the biggest problem imo but movement and runs.

Having players like Rooney up front, who instead of making forward runs drops deeper starts ball hunting all over the park to curb his itchy feet or Fellaini (bless his absolute inability) who is just Fellaini, or the lack of runners from the middle of the park, what would you expect from a physically weaker player on the ball? He will either hold on to it waiting for a run that would never happen and get knocked off, or simply look for a safe pass that the CAF now refers to as cowardly.

The best time to make use of Mata was when Rashford came into the scene in the place of Rooney and was making some runs but instead we opted to keep Mata out wide and use Lingard as a #10.

My point is that Mata, though the best player, thrives on runs, It's no wonder that most of his goals have come from him making runs into the box. I'm sure he would love if more players did that instead of him.

I don't have anything against you. I actually agree with your assessment that we lack movement and our play maker the last few seasons suffered too. I was having a discussion with this "someone", who tried to put word into other person's mouth and name calling, when can't make a valid argument. In no way I said Mata is bad. The point I tried to convey was Mata style of play making is luxurious. You also notice the issue with Rooney and Mata having the similar preferred area, which means they often step onto each other foot while lacks a man who make run. It's extreme hard to coach these 2 to play well together. It's much so simpler try a different type of player in place of one of them.

@Sammyjunn did a good/ better summary than I did about Mata.

 

[izec]

Anyway, he's been tweeting United stuff lately. If he was surplus, surely he would have been told by now?

I read a rumour here a few weeks ago that Mou told him he would give him a chance? Maybe bullshit, but i hope he stays for another year at least. Could still be useful.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

The debate about whether Mata is an advanced play maker or not is really tiresome. It hasn't much to do with his touch per se, it has to do with which role makes him happy and takes the best out of him on the pitch. Let's get one thing clear, end product doesn't make you an adequate play maker. If that was the case, nobody would be talking about Zidane nowadays. Ozil has achieved double figures in goals (in all competitions) three times in his career and Silva twice. On the other hand, high numbers have always been an important aspect in any of Mata's good seasons because that's what he offers to his teams.

Ask yourselves which was Mata's best performance with United. 9/10 people will say the win at Anfield in 2014/15 and rightly so. That was when the better coverage of space (433) and the triangle on the right between Valencia, Herrera and Mata allowed the latter to position himself further up the pitch and constantly look for opportunities to attempt runs behind Sakho. Now, compare that to the numerous times you've seen him dropping very deep in order to get on the ball and organize our plays. He always struggled because he can't turn his man or get past people in tight areas and as a result he always had to drop deep or use his first couple of touches on the ball to move backwards or sideways just to find some breathing room and turn around to face the goal without a defender breathing upon his neck. And that's what the comparisons with Silva and Iniesta are all about.

My opinion is that LvG didn't get the chance to see out his contract and had the majority of the fans turn against him in the end because he made two important mistakes at the start of his second season. The first one was to believe that Rooney would become the 20+ goals striker in his system and the second was that he insisted on Mata as an advanced play maker (central or wide doesn't make much difference). I don't know if Mkhitaryan and Ibra will be successful in England but it's a clear sign that Mourinho wants to address both these problems instead of giving second or third chances.

 

[Bugshot]

I didn't know anything about that. I believe there are far worse words out there we should deal with in that case.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/this-is-embarrassing.398081/

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-embarrassing-thread.408523/

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/do-the-people-who-have-been-posting-lvg-out-feel-embarrassed.409636/

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/do-...e-rooney-on-here-now-feel-embarrassed.410227/

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/pathetic-pitiful-disgraceful-and-an-absolute-embarrassment.411774/

 

[Sky1981]

I can see where you're coming from, although I think that Mikitaryan being quicker, more explosive, a better dribbler with more power in his shooting as well, gives him a bit more dynamism in his play that Mata lacks. But it remains to be seen how we'll play under Mourinho. Will he continue on the van Gaal road and try to make us an excellent possession based side, will he try to make us a very fast attacking team who create loads of chances (we would need some better players for that), or an all round balanced side like Chelsea 2014-2015.

Then miki is just the better player.

You want top notch performance but tolerate underperforming "need the team to be built around him" excuse then 5th place is what we deserve.

He's mata not messi

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

A very good pre-season and i can see Mourinho gives him a second chance.

 

[Champagne Football]

A very good pre-season and i can see Mourinho gives him a second chance.

I don't mind him getting another chance at all but I don't think Jose will risk him as a first teamer. Mourinho will want to hit the ground running and with it very unlikely Pogba is coming.... I imagine Jose will either play Mkhitaryan as a No.10 with a new right winger brought in such as Draxler or Perisic or will keep the Armenian out right and sign a new No. 10 such as James Rodriguez etc

 

[Mark Pawelek]

I agree he's quality compared to many others. You wanted Mourinho here overwhelmingly. So you can't complain about his team selection. Mata is on such big wages (~ £140k/week) he needs to play when he's available. I don't think Mourinho will select him that often due to his defensive weaknesses (e.g. tackling, not so fast, aerial duels, ...). Don't be surprised to see him go.

 

[Mike09]

If we want to move on and go back to the glory days is obviously we need to get rid players who are not good enough and there are so many of them and the first list will be the most ineffective one which IMO is Mata, he is 28 y.o and better sell him now before the price is dropped due to his age. Poor work rate, too much ball watching, no power, no pace, no any physical attribute, so pointless if you expect a player with no pace, no power and physical attribute to make a run and beat players. He doesn't offer many good long shots either. Probably the version of slower Kagawa + set pieces ability.

 

[sullydnl]

If we want to move on and go back to the glory days is obviously we need to get rid players who are not good enough and there are so many of them and the first list will be the most ineffective one which IMO is Mata, he is 28 y.o and better sell him now before the price is dropped due to his age. Poor work rate, too much ball watching, no power, no pace, no any physical attribute, so pointless if you expect a player with no pace, no power and physical attribute to make a run and beat players. He doesn't offer many good long shots either. Probably the version of slower Kagawa + set pieces ability.

Poor work rate? You must not have watched him play too much this season, he works very hard.

 

[Mike09]

Poor work rate? You must not have watched him play too much this season, he works very hard.

I will ask the question back to you then, have you watch him play much this season? And if you answer Yes to this question and still think his work rate isn't poor that means you must not have watched a player with a good work rate at all before.

 

[sullydnl]

I will ask the question back to you then, have you watch him play much this season? And if you answer Yes to this question and still think his work rate isn't poor that means you must not have watched a player with a good work rate at all before.

...

He was already doing the defensive work when he was being picked in CM earlier in the season. Its just that when he was playing there, he had minimal effect in creating or scoring.

Now he's on the right he's creating and scoring at a good rate, but he's still defending his fair share

Well not really, Mata has a very good work ethic and always puts a shift in, he just isn't very noticeable defensively because he's small so his work rate isn't as useful as it could be... He does press defenders well though. Certainly has been doing a lot more on the defensive side of things since about december compared to the start of the season.

Does anyone have the stats that highlighted Mata's surprisingly impressive work rate from the season just gone?

They disproved Mourinho's reason for selling Mata - the fact that he didn't work hard enough. I really like Mata.

regardless of what you feel you're wrong there, check mata's heat maps, he's all over the map and covers alot of milage when we play. Just because he isn't fast or in for a scrap doesn't mean he's not working his socks off.

You can criticise Mata for some things but it's not his work rate. He works ridiculously hard and I'd expect any stat re ground covered would prove that.

The difference is, Memphis works his butt off, Young works his butt off, even Mata tries to work his butt off. Nani, not so much.

I think Mata's work rate is a little underrated. He works hard for us, he makes a lot of intelligent runs and often drifts around the pitch to find space. This leaves him out of position but he always works hard to get back where he should be, the problem is he's so lightweight and usually looks leggy when he gets back and he dives in desperately when he has no chance of getting the ball.

Yeah that's fair, I didn't really mean work-rate now I think about it. He does work very hard, but as you say he's pretty defensively ineffective nonetheless.

Silva doesn't strike me as a Guardiola player. Mata isn't as good but has twice the work rate.

Mata's always been a hardworker in my book, mind you.

Yeah but not everyone thinks like you that's why I'm pointing other opinions in those threads, even when Mata works his ass for 90 minutes someone would say "yeah but Fellaini could do that work better and he gives us other options attacking".

I think Mata has shown willingness to track back in the big games. He's just not got any strength so his challenges are often ineffective. Some gym work like Valencia would put him right in a hurry, if he's willing. But I definitely don't think he could cut it under Simeone .

The mourinho issue seemed to stem from a perceived lack of work rate from Mata at Chelsea. He regularly covers most ground for us this season. I hope mourinho doesn't get rid, he's a classy player.

I really don't believe that crap about lack of work rate. In the two seasons here I have seen a player who works his socks off in the vast majority of games. Even when he's rubbish.

It's not about work rate. Mata has never been lazy. But he is doesn't have the physical presence or pace to contribute defensively.

I agree with this, it's a bollocks claim.

Mata does work very hard but he's not athletic or quick which means he's not the best at closing down.

Mata now has an excellent work rate. The problem is, it's mostly rendered useless by the fact that he can easily be barged off the ball (etc)

Mata was sold by Chelsea because his defensive work rate wasn't very good. He has improved this considerably since he has arrived, so he might still find a place in the team.

Mata's workmate has flown up since being here.

He works harder off the ball now than he did at Chelsea.

I could find a lot more but, unlike Mata, I'm lazy.

 

[bosnian_red]

I will ask the question back to you then, have you watch him play much this season? And if you answer Yes to this question and still think his work rate isn't poor that means you must not have watched a player with a good work rate at all before.

He has good work rate, just isn't particularly good or effective at it because of his size and lack of speed. He does try his best to close down and defend though. In the end I guess it's still ineffective, but there is a difference between saying he doesn't do it or doesn't work hard, or just isn't good at it.

 

[khoazany]

I read a rumour here a few weeks ago that Mou told him he would give him a chance? Maybe bullshit, but i hope he stays for another year at least. Could still be useful.

Mou will give everyone a chance on pre-season.It's silly to get rid of anyone before that, will send the wrong message.

 

[Mike09]

...











































I could find a lot more but, unlike Mata, I'm lazy.

You are questioning me if I watch him or no this season. But what I can see here your assumption about Mata's work rate are based on people quote not based on what you watched.
And some of the quotes are also talking about his weakness aren't able to support his to do more works which is ineffective. Well, what's the point if your work rate is just running like a headless chicken and ball watching

Remember costa last minute goal? If Mata would have stick his leg or closed down Fabregas instead of being ball watching, Fabregas wouldn't be able to pass the ball from the first ball.
Wouldn't be better if Mata helped Darmian when we got smashed 3-0 by Spurs?

 

[anant]

You are questioning me if I watch him or no this season. But what I can see here your assumption about Mata's work rate are based on people quote not based on what you watched.
And some of the quotes are also talking about his weakness aren't able to support his to do more works which is ineffective. Well, what's the point if your work rate is just running like a headless chicken and ball watching

Remember costa last minute goal? If Mata would have stick his leg or closed down Fabregas instead of being ball watching, Fabregas wouldn't be able to pass the ball from the first ball.
Wouldn't be better if Mata helped Darmian when we got smashed 3-0 by Spurs?

Stats from 14/15 season:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...anchester-Uniteds-hardest-working-player.html

He isn't the greatest tackler, no one denies that, but he is an attacking mid and I don't think there is a huge difference in his defensive contribution between him and that of other player in his position.
As far as Costa goal is concerned, it's amazing how you are blaming Mata, when Depay lost the ball, Schneiderlin was out of position and I think it was Blind who was marking Costa.
As far as the Spurs game was concerned, everyone saw Mata wasn't able to cope up, should have been brought off a long time before. Also, Darmian was poor in positioning as well, so instead of laying all the blame on him, be a bit unbiased in his judgement

 

[Ish]

...

I could find a lot more but, unlike Mata, I'm lazy.

 

[sullydnl]

You are questioning me if I watch him or no this season. But what I can see here your assumption about Mata's work rate are based on people quote not based on what you watched.
And some of the quotes are also talking about his weakness aren't able to support his to do more works which is ineffective. Well, what's the point if your work rate is just running like a headless chicken and ball watching

Remember costa last minute goal? If Mata would have stick his leg or closed down Fabregas instead of being ball watching, Fabregas wouldn't be able to pass the ball from the first ball.
Wouldn't be better if Mata helped Darmian when we got smashed 3-0 by Spurs?

No. What you're seeing here is that other people (who also watched Mata this season) agree that his work rate was good. Yet despite these posters and myself all noticing it, you somehow came away with the opposite opinion.

The point is that "poor work rate" implies lack of effort or commitment. If you want to say he's poor defensively then that's fine, a lot of people woul agree with it. Your "poor work rate" comment is clearly untrue though.

 

[JPRouve]

Would you agree its harsh or fairly accurate to say he's had a decent season for us?

I would say that it's innacurate, he has been efficient which is a quality of his but he didn't created enough, he hasn't a big enough threat nor a big enough creator.

 

[VP89]

I would say that it's innacurate, he has been efficient which is a quality of his but he didn't created enough, he hasn't a big enough threat nor a big enough creator.

He created more than Martial according to Squaka (which is quite reputable by way of stats).

 

[JPRouve]

He created more than Martial according to Squaka (which is quite reputable by way of stats).

And that's not enough for a player of his standing compare him with other players in the league.