Julian Weigl

[slig]

And you keep on being proud cultivating players for the real top clubs

Didnt know that you are one atm.

 

[Varun]

Didnt know that you are one atm.

Mkhi disagrees.

 

[slig]

Mkhi disagrees.

Great.

Think Rantiola told him so. There are rumours that Micki was at Old Trafford Wednesday evening to play in the real top clubs competition, but to his own suprise the stadium was empty and nobody was there.

 

[Celestiale]

Didnt know that you are one atm.

Mkhi disagrees.

Pogba and Ibra also disagree Weigl or whoever will become good enough in a few years will also disagree

 

[Crossie]

Yeah, youre right, he struggled a bit in the Rückrunde and will stuggle at some point again, he is so young, its normal and i think if there is a club and fans who knows that, its the BVB. To you really think we create hype around them? I think the club is great in keeping the mouth shut, keep calm and isolate the players from such stuff, focusing on their development and not on stories around them. Let the media and stuff hype someone, if its Weigl or Dembele or Passlack or someone else, the example Weigl (especially last year) shows that we dont mind and keep doing great work.

So i agree with you that he stuggled in the Rückrunde, and needed time to adapt to the new players (Rode, Rapha, Dembele, Mor, Götze, Schürrle) but nothing what worries me. It will be interesting how he will develop this year. Cause you are right: the second year could be more tricky than the first for such young players.

It's in fact media and fans, perhaps also the environment of youngsters who create and fuel the hype - Redcafe is just one of many prime examples of it.
I'm dead certain that if somebody were to dig into the archives, they'd find umpteenth of threads where teenagers or early twens were hyped to no end and most of them have had so far a good but not extraordinary career. José is right about too many Einsteins in football but he's wrong that it's a new development: It's been there for ages but thanks to the internet not just limited to the media.

To me, Weigl has not only to develop in terms of consistency but as he himself pointed out to get out of his comfort zone of safe passes. Without pulling stats, I'd estimate about 75% of his passes are sideway or back passes and are shorter than 10m. Driving more forward, playing some delicious through balls (think Marc's through ball before the opener of Rapha against Wolfsburg - ) is what I hope to see more and more over this season.

 

[Varun]

Great.

No amount of green smileys mask the pain

 

[Crossie]

trolling at it's best
You don't have a single player that would make our first team.

Now THAT'S the finest trolling of today.

 

[fcbforever]

trolling at it's best

Scouting works different at a big club, then at a small team like Dortmund. You can't just scout in Asia or eastern Europe/France for some small players, and throw them into the first team, when there are class players already in those positions. It's a "benefit" only poor clubs or clubs with poor opponents have.
Youth acadamy? You really want to go for our youth academy? Our youth academy is lightyears better then yours..alone in recent years we produced players like Pogba, Pique, Drinkwater, Pereira, Lingard, Rashford and co. 5th choice youth players from us go into other Premier league teams (Burnley/ Michael Keane) and boss their defense. And you are coming with players like Passlack or Durm hilarious.
Envy your players? You don't have a single player that would make our first team. We just bought your best player at a position we have around the least competition (qualitywise, not quantity). And he can't even make the first team. He was kept out of the first team by an academy product from our team by the way, before he got injured.

A lot of things are not working as they should in our club, but those have nothing to do with the quality of our players or our academy.
Really made my day

I know slig can get to your nerves quickly, but your statement is just as ridicoulus.
Not a single player? No need for Reus, no? Aubameyang is shit as well. And even Götze might very well have a good shot. Especially with Rooney in his place.
So, yeah. Your squad is far from stellar.
And claiming Pogba and Pique for your academy, both of whom barely stayed 3 years with your team, Pique arguably never seeing your academy at all because his youth education was finished, is a stretch my friend. A big one. Pique was with Barca since he was 10.
Drinkwater is a mediocre, 26 year old academy reject and Lingard has yet to prove just as much as someone like Pulisic. Talking about Pereira is a joke. Especially since again, he's not reeeeeally your academy product is he? Bought when he was 16?

Rashford looks good, but he's the only serious contender you have. While Dortmund has got Reus, Götze, Sahin and Schmelzer for starters and a ton of guys like Durm. Whatever you might think of someone like Großkreutz, 3 of their academy players have won the world cup in 2014 and with Reus it might very well have been 4.

Make valid points, don't get down to his level. Because this was bullshit.

 

[slig]

No amount of green smileys mask the pain

I dont watch football of the current United so i dont have to feel pain.

 

[SwansonsTache]

We should go for one of those other hot midfielders in Germany. Dahoud and Goretzka is spoken well of.

Weigl, Saul and the likes are ungettable imo.

 

[slig]

To me, Weigl has not only to develop in terms of consistency but as he himself pointed out to get out of his comfort zone of safe passes. Without pulling stats, I'd estimate about 75% of his passes are sideway or back passes and are shorter than 10m. Driving more forward, playing some delicious through balls (think Marc's through ball before the opener of Rapha against Wolfsburg - ) is what I hope to see more and more over this season.

But you have to keep in focus what Tuchel wants from him. I know what you mean, and i think he will trust himself more and more so that he also will try to play more throughballs. But its a question to what amount of that Tuchel wants him to play.. Think even if Tuchel wants to see it more and more in the future, the tasks for Weigl in the last year were more exactly what you described.

 

[Varun]

I dont watch football of the current United so i dont have to feel pain.

Things one has to do to avoid seeing an ex he/she thought would never leave.

 

[slig]

Things one has to do to avoid seeing an ex he/she thought would never leave.

Did i miss a point? Would i see an ex? Or would i be wondering why our ex has turned into a fat old slow lady trying to look like she can play football and has a shirt where "Rooney" is written on it?

 

[Crossie]

We should go for one of those other hot midfielders in Germany. Dahoud and Goretzka is spoken well of.

Weigl, Saul and the likes are ungettable imo.

Beware what you wish for. Goretzka has been quite injury prone during his career so far, perhaps not quite to the extent of Marco Reus but close.
Dahoud hasn't impressed this season so far, was some times benched, but of course he's still very young.

I actually think Weigl is attainable under certain conditions: Him open to move and our bosses accepting a huge bid in the ranks of at least 50m. Because Weigl is not just young but also smart, I'm certain he'd chose a new club not because of money or history but where he can develop himself best. As mentioned earlier, I admire Mourinho but I believe that he won't attract young players in crucial phase of their development, even less so if United/José continue struggling with assembling a coherent team and style of play. Therefore, if such two offers existed, I'm certain Weigl would say yes to Pep but no to José.

 

[Silverman]

Did i miss a point? Would i see an ex? Or would i be wondering why our ex has turned into a fat old slow lady trying to look like she can play football and has a shirt where "Rooney" is written on it?

Ah come on, we knew ya meant Rooney, no need to explain it. Point ruined imo

 

[Varun]

Did i miss a point? Would i see an ex? Or would i be wondering why our ex has turned into a fat old slow lady trying to look like she can play football and has a shirt where Rooney is written on it?

You'd see your ex once he makes the step up to playing for a big club. Takes time as I'm sure you'd agree, it's a huge step up after all.

 

[slig]

Ah come on, we knew ya meant Rooney, no need to explain it. Point ruined imo

I think i got a point To be serious evne if its offtopic: You have to wait if Micki turnes out as the kind of player you want. I wrote in in a nother thread: The beavoiur of Mourinho towards him is quite shocking and exact the opposite from what we did to get the best out of Micki where he were nearly worldclass.

 

[Acrobat7]

Might be going on a limb but I reckon @slig is verging on a ban.

That would make this (and other) threads readworthy again, since I have him on ignore and that turns this thread into on big pile of s***.

 

[slig]

You'd see your ex once he makes the step up to playing for a big club. Takes time as I'm sure you'd agree, it's a huge step up after all.

My theorie is: He made a step up to play for a (currently) not working squad which doesnt have implemented mechanism of attacking and defendig football. And its open if he will play in there like he was playing in a well oiled machine.

 

[Silverman]

I think i got a point To be serious evne if its offtopic: You have to wait if Micki turnes out as the kind of player you want. I wrote in in a nother thread: The beavoiur of Mourinho towards him is quite shocking and exact the opposite from what we did to get the best out of Micki where he were nearly worldclass.

A lot of people don't realise how physical the premier league is and the strength of the opposition and when your not used to it then it's tough to adapt right away. Ya can't say Bayern or Dortmund have anywhere near as much a challenge then United do each week. Mkhitaryan is only settling in coupled with an injury. No need to panic.

 

[Varun]

My theorie is: He made a step up to play for a (currently) not working squad which doesnt have impementet mechanism of attacking and defendig football. And its open if he will play in there like he was playing in a well oiled machine.

That's where my plan to buy tuchel and 5 players from Dortmund comes in. It all makes sense now, doesn't it?

 

[Celestiale]

Not a single player? No need for Reus, no? Aubameyang is shit as well.

Reus would not get past Martial. If he would be at his best all the time, then yes. But with all his injuries, i very much doubt it. Aubameyang is a very good player, but he would not get past Ibra. And Ibra gone, Rashford would definitely be number one there, next to no one would keep him out of the team for long. As i said, we bought their best player this season, and he can't get past our academy product Lingard. Kagawa was also their best player back then, couldn't make it either. It doesn't get much clearer then that.

And claiming Pogba and Pique for your academy, both of whom barely stayed 3 years with your team, Pique arguably never seeing your academy at all because his youth education was finished, is a stretch my friend. A big one. Pique was with Barca since he was 10.
Drinkwater is a mediocre, 26 year old academy reject and Lingard has yet to prove just as much as someone like Pulisic. Talking about Pereira is a joke. Especially since again, he's not reeeeeally your academy product is he? Bought when he was 16?

Well, i thought when a player joins a club at the age of 16, you'd call that academy. That's how the media does it as well. Otherwise most of those "Bayern, Barca or whatever youth players" wouldn't really be their youth players at all. Pique saw nothing apart our academy, because he could never make our first team. Calling Drinkwater mediocre is quite a stretch. I don't know how many games of him you saw, but he was one of the best CMs in the PL last year, and he replicates that performances again - hence earned him a place in the England national team. Being rejected by our first team isn't particularly a sign of a bad/mediocre footballer, or you'd call Pique, Pogba, Chicharito, Nani, di Maria mediocre? Lingard is way further then Pulisic, he showed over years in the Championship that he can deliver, he made 3 crucial goals for our team in the last few month. And again - before his injury he kept Micky out of the team, Dortmunds best player from last year.

While Dortmund has got Reus, Götze, Sahin and Schmelzer for starters and a ton of guys like Durm.

Reus spent his crucial developing years not at Dortmund. He came back as finished footballer. Götze is not better then Drinkwater currently. Schmelzer was older then Pogba or Pique joining us.
You can't have it both ways. Either Reus, Schmelzer, Pogba, Pereira and Pique are all "academy products" of United and Dortmund, or no one of them is. Decide yourself

 

[slig]

Beware what you wish for. Goretzka has been quite injury prone during his career so far, perhaps not quite to the extent of Marco Reus but close.
Dahoud hasn't impressed this season so far but

I actually think Weigl is attainable under certain conditions: Him open to move (which and our bosses accepting a huge bid in the ranks of at least 50m. Because Weigl is not just young but also smart, I'm certain he'd chose a new club not because of money or history but where he can develop himself best. As mentioned earlier, I admire Mourinho but I believe that he won't attract young players in crucial phase of their development, even less so if United/José continue struggling with assembling a coherent team and style of play. Therefore, if such two offers existed, I'm certain Weigl would say yes to Pep but no to José.

Agree. We have to beware of City and Pep, but not of United. Goretzka and Dahoud are interesting.

 

[Sphaero]

That's what, we've stuck to the United way long past its expiry date. Tell me this, does a lion simply hunt a deer when it needs food or develop a deer child till its big enough to satisfy his hunger? Clubs like Dortmund exist for a reason, that's for clubs like Bayern and United to have their players when they're ready. It's the same as what you do to lower German clubs. We've just got to say feck it to the other crap and simply buy players and most importantly, managers from clubs like yours. It's a solid plan imo.

So, it is not because of one of the highest average attendances in the sports world or the millions of fans or one of the best away support or the completely football crazy city which literally turns yellow and black at least twice a month? Well, thank god for reminding me that it is clubs like the holy Manchester United club which allow us to exist.

And congratulations, btw. You just won the award of the worst post in this thread and given that you had really stiff competition for that aswell you really had to try your best. Just be careful not to bump your head at the ceiling from your fecking high horse.

 

[Crossie]

But you have to keep in focus what Tuchel wants from him. I know what you mean, and i think he will trust himself more and more so that he also will try to play more throughballs. But its a question to what amount of that Tuchel wants him to play.. Think even if Tuchel wants to see it more and more in the future, the tasks for Weigl in the last year were more exactly what you described.

I'm the first to come up with that consideration - a player always attempts to fulfill the manager's instructions - and am convinced that's exactly what Tuchel wants to see from him now. I may sound critical with Weigl but I am actually not. All I'm trying to express is that IMHO, there's still a long way for him to go until I would buy into the hype that surrounds him. I can be fully happy with a player's performance and still being relatively objective. Well, at least quite often. I find it hard not to buy into the hype that Rapha is generating these days. What. A. Player. He has the potential to become the 2nd best ever buy by Susi Zorc (after digging out Kagawa for €350,000 from a 2nd tier Japanese club): Pretend to buy a LB for €12-15m and get a Gündogan-esque #8, LAM and LB in one single player. That's so cool.

 

[slig]

I can be fully happy with a player's performance and still being relatively objective. Well, at least quite often. I find it hard not to buy into the hype that Rapha is generating these days. What. A. Player. He has the potential to become the 2nd best ever buy by Susi Zorc (after digging out Kagawa for €350,000 from a 2nd tier Japanese club): Pretend to buy a LB for €12-15m and get a Gündogan-esque #8, LAM and LB in one single player. That's so cool.

Yeah, me too . I have to pull back myself when iam thinking of him. But we really have to stay calm, he seems to be the best transfer since years (what is a hard competition) but the season just has started. I think with him as an 8/CM, and Rode as a new partner, and CAstro fully arrived, Weigl will take the next step.

 

[Varun]

So, it is not because of one of the highest average attendances in the sports world or the millions of fans or one of the best away support or the completely football crazy city which literally turns yellow and black at least twice a month? Well, thank god for reminding me that it is clubs like the holy Manchester United club which allow us to exist.

And congratulations, btw. You just won the award of the worst post in this thread and given that you had really stiff competition for that aswell you really had to try your best. Just be careful not to bump your head at the ceiling from your fecking high horse.

I'm wumming slig ffs, even he understood and didn't take bait.

 

[slig]

I'm wumming slig ffs, even he understood and didn't take bait.

I find it provocating and arrogant, too. Your words are prototype for what are the problems at your club and why he gets behind other clubs in the last years. But i dont let this stop me enjoying make some jokes, to post and also discuss on a good level in here.

 

[Varun]

I took bait. Your words are prototype for what are the problems at your club and why he gets behind other clubs in the last years. But i dont let this stop me enjoying make some jokes, to post and also discuss on a good level in here.

If you believe people who run Man Utd think the way I was pretending to think, there's only 1 person who has a problem I'm afraid.

There's no discussion happening at a good level with you to be honest. You post like you're having a stroke, always taking things to an utterly ridiculous extreme. Some think you do it to wum people, I think it's what you actually believe. Either ways, it's not conducive to good discussion.

 

[Kasper]

Rashford looks good, but he's the only serious contender you have. While Dortmund has got Reus, Götze, Sahin and Schmelzer for starters and a ton of guys like Durm. Whatever you might think of someone like Großkreutz, 3 of their academy players have won the world cup in 2014 and with Reus it might very well have been 4.

Three? Götze, Großkreutz and?

 

[slig]

Either ways, it's not conducive to good discussion.

For me it was, i discussed with a bunch of people about Weigl, and i learned that there are people who really dont want to see why it dont make sense/its not enough to pick up players like Lollypops in the aim to have a threatening,genius playing football club which develops great over years and everybody fears to play against. And looking on the last years of Uniteds club politics, i think you are not the only one who thinks like that, i fear that your board are thinking in that bounderies too.

 

[Varun]

For me it was, i discussed with a bunch of people about Weigl, and i learned that there are people who really dont want to see why it dont make sense/its not enough to pick up players like Lollypops in the aim to have a threatening,genius playing football club which develops great over years and everybody fears to play against.

See, read this very post couple of times and you'll probably understand it exemplifies everything I said above.

 

[m1y2]

future bayern player for sure with Dembelé, kids got potential

 

[Seveneric]

The last 2 pages of this thread are an abortion.

 

[saylon]

Schöpf and Can of the top of my head.
Sansone as well.

Allow me to add a few more players from Munich's youth academy who are playing for first league sides in Europe. I'm sure that's way behind the BVB production of quality players but I feel like it's still not too shabby.

• Markus Feulner - FC Augsburg
• Diego Contento - FC Girondins Bordeaux
• Toni Kroos - Real Madrid
• Thomas Kraft - Hertha BSC
• Sebastian Langkamp - Hertha BSC
• Sandro Wagner - TSG Hoffenheim
• Georg Niedermeier - SC Freiburg
• Mehmet Ekici - Trabzonspor

Oh and of course until the end of last these there could have been a certain Mats Hummels - BVB included in that list.

 

[fcbforever]

Reus would not get past Martial. If he would be at his best all the time, then yes. But with all his injuries, i very much doubt it. Aubameyang is a very good player, but he would not get past Ibra. And Ibra gone, Rashford would definitely be number one there, next to no one would keep him out of the team for long. As i said, we bought their best player this season, and he can't get past our academy product Lingard. Kagawa was also their best player back then, couldn't make it either. It doesn't get much clearer then that.

Well, i thought when a player joins a club at the age of 16, you'd call that academy. That's how the media does it as well. Otherwise most of those "Bayern, Barca or whatever youth players" wouldn't really be their youth players at all. Pique saw nothing apart our academy, because he could never make our first team. Calling Drinkwater mediocre is quite a stretch. I don't know how many games of him you saw, but he was one of the best CMs in the PL last year, and he replicates that performances again - hence earned him a place in the England national team. Being rejected by our first team isn't particularly a sign of a bad/mediocre footballer, or you'd call Pique, Pogba, Chicharito, Nani, di Maria mediocre? Lingard is way further then Pulisic, he showed over years in the Championship that he can deliver, he made 3 crucial goals for our team in the last few month. And again - before his injury he kept Micky out of the team, Dortmunds best player from last year.


Reus spent his crucial developing years not at Dortmund. He came back as finished footballer. Götze is not better then Drinkwater currently. Schmelzer was older then Pogba or Pique joining us.
You can't have it both ways. Either Reus, Schmelzer, Pogba, Pereira and Pique are all "academy products" of United and Dortmund, or no one of them is. Decide yourself

Drinkwater is 26. And I might have been wrong about Schmelzer, but that doesn't really change anything.
And Pique was 17 when he joined you right? Yeah. Pretty sure. So, no academy for him. That is btw the age Reus left Dortmund. So he did have his education at Dortmund.

Allow me to add a few more players from Munich's youth academy who are playing for first league sides in Europe. I'm sure that's way behind the BVB production of quality players but I feel like it's still not too shabby.

• Markus Feulner - FC Augsburg
• Diego Contento - FC Girondins Bordeaux
• Toni Kroos - Real Madrid
• Thomas Kraft - Hertha BSC
• Sebastian Langkamp - Hertha BSC
• Sandro Wagner - TSG Hoffenheim
• Georg Niedermeier - SC Freiburg
• Mehmet Ekici - Trabzonspor

Oh and of course until the end of last these there could have been a certain Mats Hummels - BVB included in that list.

Kroos belongs to Rostock. He wasn't ever part of our youth setup, he straight up went into the first team at age 16.

 

[Blzbud]

I find it provocating and arrogant, too. Your words are prototype for what are the problems at your club and why he gets behind other clubs in the last years. But i dont let this stop me enjoying make some jokes, to post and also discuss on a good level in here.

A certain lack of self awareness is pretty apparent when you're casting round words like provocating (sic) and arrogant. Maybe that's your idea of banter. Personally, I find nearly all of your posts exemplify why it's so hard, despite the great players in the team, to not despise Dortmund and their up their own arse pseudo hipster supporters. You guys (the Dortmund fans on here anyway) are so fecking precious it's actually quite comical.

 

[saylon]

According to transfermarkt, Toni played 19 matches for our U19 team in the season 2006/2007. Aside of that, usually kids don't join the acedemies of the big clubs in Germany when they are younger than 16, unless those big clubs are within a realistic distance to their hometown.
Toni joined us when he turned 16, just like Alaba or Basti Schweinsteiger did, who then spent a couple of years amog our youth/reserve teams. So the fact that Toni, being the wonderkid he was praised for, was already good enough to make it into our first team after spending one year in the U19 and develop among the professional players doesn't make him part of our youth program?

 

[djdhrubs]

I'm wumming slig ffs, even he understood and didn't take bait.

These Germans are a sensitive bunch.

 

[Blackwidow]

Allow me to add a few more players from Munich's youth academy who are playing for first league sides in Europe. I'm sure that's way behind the BVB production of quality players but I feel like it's still not too shabby.

• Markus Feulner - FC Augsburg
• Diego Contento - FC Girondins Bordeaux
• Toni Kroos - Real Madrid
• Thomas Kraft - Hertha BSC
• Sebastian Langkamp - Hertha BSC
• Sandro Wagner - TSG Hoffenheim
• Georg Niedermeier - SC Freiburg
• Mehmet Ekici - Trabzonspor

Oh and of course until the end of last these there could have been a certain Mats Hummels - BVB included in that list.

Nicola Sansone - Villarreal
Roberto Soriano - Villarreal
Max Grün - Wolfsburg

There is more of it.