Or maybe because Pogba is better than him.
La Liga - 2014/15
- Thread starter jojojo
- Start date
There's no shortage of hype around Koke. Xavi has already declared him to be his natural heir to the centre of Spain's midfield. United bid for him twice last season, Barcelona tried to get him in the summer. He's had three new contracts in the last 18 months and his release clause stands at €60m.
I really like Koke but this is true. If anything I think he's maybe become a bit overrated, haven't changed my mind on his potential but I wouldn't put him in the top bracket just need.
In my view, it's time for Simeone to start trusting him in the middle more often, that's where he'll start to flourish properly.
But surely there's a reason why Simeone doesn't like using him down the middle, which is directly linked to the way he likes his teams to set up and function. If Koke played in the middle for Atleti it would alter the balance of Simeone's system and make its spine less solid, which is why Simeone won't make the change unless circumstances force his hand. Personally speaking I'm fascinated at how Simeone has managed to make two banks of four a staple of European football again.
Yeah I was thinking it was a foregone conclusion that Peter Lim was going to get it sooner than later. And I read about the demonstrations just now.
http://www.espnfc.com/spanish-primera-división/story/2055791/valencia-fans-protest-in-favour-of-peter-lims-takeover
Say Lim takes over, do you think the dynamics of Valencia could change esp transfer wise?
Putting Koke in the middle would make the spine less solid? I'd argue it would make it better but the flanks would be weaker. The spine is the middle you know. Unless by spine you mean their main form of scoring goals. In that way, yes the spine would change but not necessarily be less solid. Could even be stronger.
I'm not criticising Simeone's tactics, just think that the natural progression is to move Koke into one of the deeper roles. Doesn't even mean they have to deviate from their usual formation.
If they do that Koke will improve his ability to control games, and Atléti may start to look better against the small sides that they've struggled against this season without Diego Costa to find a goal.
Would mean they'd have to adapt their tactics, but I think they're going to have to anyway because they look a bit short on ideas so far this season. Also, Simeone has used Koke in the middle at times in the past when he's been chasing the game so I don't think he doesn't trust him there, just think he likes the more defensive duo of Gabi and Mario Suárez/Tiago with Koke out wide.
(I thought I posted this earlier but my phone must have messed up, had a few more things to say on the issue but I've forgotten them now
)Yes it would make their spine less solid for the reasons highlighted in Bob's post below:
I'm not saying Simeone doesn't trust Koke in centre midfield, I'm saying (as you point out) he prefers to have the security of Gabi and a.nother's hard running, tackling and work ethic in the middle. As you know, the doggedness of Atleti's midfield provides the basis for the likes of Koke and Arda to go forward and support their attackers. Koke is a Simeone player so he is willing and able to muck in, but his game is naturally more expansive than Simeone's other centre midfield options. The way Simeone lines up his midfield allows Koke, and the other forward thinking players in his squad, the freedom to concentrate more on attacking than defending. I think that's the best way to use him. While I accept he's not a David Silva/Juan Mata type who wouldn't suit #8, I don't think you want to give Koke the responsibility of protecting the back four or tracking runners.I'm not criticising Simeone's tactics, just think that the natural progression is to move Koke into one of the deeper roles. Doesn't even mean they have to deviate from their usual formation.
If they do that Koke will improve his ability to control games, and Atléti may start to look better against the small sides that they've struggled against this season without Diego Costa to find a goal.
Would mean they'd have to adapt their tactics, but I think they're going to have to anyway because they look a bit short on ideas so far this season. Also, Simeone has used Koke in the middle at times in the past when he's been chasing the game so I don't think he doesn't trust him there, just think he likes the more defensive duo of Gabi and Mario Suárez/Tiago with Koke out wide.
(I thought I posted this earlier but my phone must have messed up, had a few more things to say on the issue but I've forgotten them now
I know what you mean. I'd argue however that in most games, like against the likes of Almería and Granada where they seem to be struggling, putting him in midfield next to Gabi would be the way to go. If we were to play like Atlético it would be like us playing always with Fletcher and Carrick in midfield. We know first hand that the midfield can be better without sacrificing the offence. He's brought in Griezemann and Cerci to play on the flanks with Mandzukic replacing Costa. I don't know why he bought them if he's not going to use them to their full power. It's pretty strong to play Mandzukic up front with Koke and Gabi in midfield and Griezmann, Turan and Raúl García ahead of them. That still leaves him Cerci. He's struggling for goals and the reason for that is largely because of the midfield duo that he's using.
The fans hope he'll invest in the new stadium, the team and clear the debts. But he is a football businessman so it won't all be plain sailing. I can imagine certain Lim/Mendes clients being parked at Valencia as a shop window for example - as long as that's the only thing they do I doubt many Valencia fans will protest.
It's still a better scenario than the one they've faced this past few years, or the alternatives offered so far. Atletico, for example, are another Lim/Mendes project though not directly as owners/shareholders and they've been able to use it as a stepping stone to a better and more stable structure.
Matchday 6 - 27 Sep
I said it was all Liga, all the time this week and so it continues with match 6.
Tonight - All times UK
Elche v Celta de Vigo 20:00
Sat 27 Sep 2014 - Spanish La Liga
Barcelona v Granada CF 17:00
Villarreal v Real Madrid 15:00
Atl Madrid v Sevilla 19:00
Ath Bilbao v Eibar 21:00
Levante v Rayo Vallecano 21:00
Sun 28 Sep 2014 - Spanish La Liga
Getafe v Málaga 11:00
Deportivo de La Coruña v Almería 16:00
Real Sociedad v Valencia 18:00
Córdoba v Espanyol 20:00
La Liga after 5 games:
Valencia, Barcelona, Sevilla have 13 points
Atletico has 11
Real Madrid and Celta have 9
Villareal and Granada have 8
Eibar has 7
Everybody else has less
Annoyingly, I have to miss what I suspect will be the best Liga match of the weekend. I'll just have to console myself with the fact I can watch Atletico-Sevilla afterwards, and that Athletic-Eibar is such a big game in the history of Eibar that it will be worth watching as well.
Tonight - All times UK
Elche v Celta de Vigo 20:00
Sat 27 Sep 2014 - Spanish La Liga
Barcelona v Granada CF 17:00
Villarreal v Real Madrid 15:00
Atl Madrid v Sevilla 19:00
Ath Bilbao v Eibar 21:00
Levante v Rayo Vallecano 21:00
Sun 28 Sep 2014 - Spanish La Liga
Getafe v Málaga 11:00
Deportivo de La Coruña v Almería 16:00
Real Sociedad v Valencia 18:00
Córdoba v Espanyol 20:00
La Liga after 5 games:
Valencia, Barcelona, Sevilla have 13 points
Atletico has 11
Real Madrid and Celta have 9
Villareal and Granada have 8
Eibar has 7
Everybody else has less
Annoyingly, I have to miss what I suspect will be the best Liga match of the weekend. I'll just have to console myself with the fact I can watch Atletico-Sevilla afterwards, and that Athletic-Eibar is such a big game in the history of Eibar that it will be worth watching as well.
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What a weekend in La Liga (and even in the PL). Annoyingly I am at the OktoberfestI said it was all Liga, all the time this week and so it continues with match 6.
Tonight - All times UK
Elche v Celta de Vigo 20:00
Sat 27 Sep 2014 - Spanish La Liga
Barcelona v Granada CF 17:00
Villarreal v Real Madrid 15:00
Atl Madrid v Sevilla 19:00
Ath Bilbao v Eibar 21:00
Levante v Rayo Vallecano 21:00
Sun 28 Sep 2014 - Spanish La Liga
Getafe v Málaga 11:00
Deportivo de La Coruña v Almería 16:00
Real Sociedad v Valencia 18:00
Córdoba v Espanyol 20:00
La Liga after 5 games:
Valencia, Barcelona, Sevilla have 13 points
Atletico has 11
Real Madrid and Celta have 9
Villareal and Granada have
Eibar has 7
Everybody else has less
Annoyingly, I have to miss what I suspect will be the best Liga match of the weekend. I'll just have to console myself with the fact I can watch Atletico-Sevilla afterwards, and that Athletic-Eibar is such a big game in the history of Eibar that it will be worth watching as well.
so will miss out on all games But hopefully we'll still manage to get into an Irish pub in the city tomorrow for the United game!
Fair points.
Perhaps, but I think it is more a Gerrard vs Scholes type of thing stylistically.
When I say hype I was meaning from football fans, you don't see various supporters clamourng for their side to sign Koke or him listed as highly as Pogba when it comes to the best young CM's in Europe by fans, the clubs clearly see his value though I agree.
Thank God for Athletico Madrid. I still dont watch La Liga but their emergence has given the league a different look.
The 'come back home ronaldo' banner actually flew over madrigal. 
What a goal from Modric
Ronaldo on the scoresheet again (surprise, surprise) great assist Benzema.
I do wonder if this is gonna last this season.
He always starts off ridiculously and then obviously it tails off (because it's practically impossible to keep up such a rate over 30+ games) but he's just absolutely on fire isn't he?
Varane has been excellent. He stops pretty much everything.What a goal from Modric
It's ridiculous right now.
Yeah, Marcelo aswell.
Is this his best start to a season? I think it is statistically.
That is because he get's injured, not necessarily due to his form dropping off. If he is rotated properly and can avoid injuries I see no reason why he cannot keep this form up. In the 10/11 and 11/12 seasons he maintained great goalscoring form throughout pretty much the whole campaign (there was only a short drop-off in 10-11 due to injury but he recovered quickly after).
Don't know for sure, but it would surprise me if he's ever done better.
Fecking Real Madrid got the greatest steal in footballing history paying us a paltry sum of 80m pounds. They would have paid us 500m.
He has 13 from 9 games.
Closest he got was 10 from 9 in 2011/12 according to Soccerbase at least.
Are more Real and Barca games kicking off at 3pm our time this season?
I think it usually only happens when they have UCL fixtures mid-week. Outside that its usually an evening KO
Cheers. Just seems to be happening more this season. I used to like watching them of an evening and keep missing them now.
The fixture organisers have said it's a decision they made. Real Madrid, Atlético Madrid and Barcelona will all play at 3pm at least once per month now, apparently.
I know what you mean, todays been a full day of football for me and i was hoping to catch some La Liga game after the Asnl-tottenham game...
The spanish can be so selfish sometimes!
We- barca- are shit.
Complacency and lack of creativity continue from last season.
Complacency and lack of creativity continue from last season.
ps : they are leading 3-0
spoiled fans
spoiled fans
Neymar appears to have gone into extra selfish mode so far this season, no wonder he's been subbed so many times. Always trying to dribble his way to goal, failing miserably at times, not passing when he should either. Messi looks a bit pissed off with him at times.
Xavi-Dani Alves-Messi combo for Messi's 400th senior goal, had to be. Brilliant team goal.
A rare good cross from Alves!
Great goal.
4-0 now. Barca's attack already looks really good without Suarez.
Neymar hat-trick. Messi with the assist again...