Thought the same especially as players looked tired from first half efforts, really thought we needed changing up and Herrera may have gave us something different. Or Carrick a bit more control.
LvG's substitutions
- Thread starter Señor
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If you look at it positively, he put in an 18 year old in our biggest game of the season when we needed a goal...
Falcao wouldve come on no doubt, as said above we didnt have many options.
We never know how fit the players are. If Herrera would be ready, he would have played him, same with Carrick, after LvGs interview it really didn't sound for me like he is match fit for the PL.
I wonder what his previous track record is, with regards to substitutions in games where his team is trailing. @Balu ?
I think we we're playing well enough during the period of looking for more substitutions. He brought the extra striker on, and the rest of the balance was good. No need to unsettle the midfield which was in my opinion having its best game as a unit in a very long time. Carrick and Herrera will no doubt be completely off the pace, and bringing them on against Chelsea mid game could have made us collapse.
We didn't really have any impact subs during his time at Bayern, it really was a thin squad. I remember him celebrating once when he subbed in a defender for a midfielder late in the game and told van Buyten to move forward and play as a striker. Shortly after van Buyten scored a header to win us the game. But while it worked and was of course hailed as a genius move, I would be worried if something like that was a regular plan for subsitutions.
In general I'd say he's better at creating a great match plan for the start of the game than he is at adjusting during the game, even though he seems to be less stubborn and more open to making changes away from his philosophy at United than he ever was at Bayern.
I'm all for giving youth a chance but I thought replacing a top-class player like Mata with an 18-year-old kid with only a couple of matches under his belt when trailing at home against the table-toppers was a bit over the top.
Over the top?
We needed a goal and Wilson is a striker with good finishing. Mata didn't look like scoring or creating anything, so I totally get the substitution. We didn't have any other proven options in that department, so he had to pick Wilson. It doesn't matter if you are a proven top-class player, if you don't deliver or look exhausted, you should come off. Simple.
I noticed that too. Maybe he realised that he made some mistakes during his time at Barca and Bayern and he don't want to repeat them.
This is probably his last big job and i think he want to leave this club without any question about his work here.
Exactly. Seemed pretty standard - chasing a goal, opponents making defensive subs, take off your least effective midfielder and put on an extra striker. (Especially as you know Mourinho will get even more defensive if you do.)
Thanks for the insight mate. Second paragraph is very interesting, about making a plan from the start of the game. That also explains why he is seated for the whole game, I guess.
I'm not a 'Gary Neville' on this but I think the subs were highly tactical. The problem might be that the substitutes themselves didn't perform as they should. But I think LVG is improving in the sense of getting to know better of his players now. Just my two cents.
I know I'm in the minority here but I felt Mata had a really decent game, and was slightly surprised he was pulled off.
But LVG did explain post-match why he had subbed Wilson on, and it had to do with a higher press. Chelsea were beginning to consolidate possession and made the pitch really big, to quote LVG, and Wilson was brought on to press their defensive line and force them off the ball. It kinda worked.
Some were not happy with Paddy McNair being taken off however Louis van Gaal said he had cramp so this explains the substitution.
Great managers live and die by their substitutions. The big moments and big matches are often turned by subs. Mata won us the game today, maybe a great sub will win us 4th place or the FA cup this year, we'll see.
Fergie was just the same, some of it is luck and some of it is inspiration or a mixture of both.
Fergie was just the same, some of it is luck and some of it is inspiration or a mixture of both.
I was a bit baffled with Wilson coming on for Di Maria, albeit him having a poor game, and then deciding to put Van Persie as a centre/attacking midfielder.
The lineup seemed to look like this at the end of the game:
The lineup seemed to look like this at the end of the game:
De Gea
Valencia - Carrick - Blind - Shaw
Fletcher
Mata - Fellaini - Van Persie - Rooney
Wilson
How's that for balance, Van Gaal? Valencia - Carrick - Blind - Shaw
Fletcher
Mata - Fellaini - Van Persie - Rooney
Wilson
I'm still trying to understand why Di Maria was taken off for a second striker when van Persie was doing absolutely nothing. Di Maria was having a poor game but he at least gives us pace into the opposing end. After Mata scored we fell into a defensive situation so it was certain that RVP would become more and more isolated.
We've complained about Rooney being untouchable in the lineup but it looks like the same has become true of RVP.
We've complained about Rooney being untouchable in the lineup but it looks like the same has become true of RVP.
I was a bit baffled with Wilson coming on for Di Maria, albeit him having a poor game, and then deciding to put Van Persie as a centre/attacking midfielder.
The lineup seemed to look like this at the end of the game:
De GeaHow's that for balance, Van Gaal?
Valencia - Carrick - Blind - Shaw
Fletcher
Mata - Fellaini - Van Persie - Rooney
Wilson
, let me get this right, if the player were in thier correct positions it would look likeDe Gea
....................................................Shaw
Fletcher-Blind-Carrick
Valencia................................................
Mata-Fellaini-Rooney
RVP-Wilson
Balance LOL
....................................................Shaw
Fletcher-Blind-Carrick
Valencia................................................
Mata-Fellaini-Rooney
RVP-Wilson
Balance LOL
De Gea
....................................................Shaw
Fletcher-Blind-Carrick
Valencia................................................
Mata-Fellaini-Rooney
RVP-Wilson
Balance LOL
Ye, that's the one. Thankfully we were able to hold on.
There is method in the irrational thinking that you can never have enough ball players on the pitch lest we forget lads. Not saying we're on the roads to Barca or Bayern yet but it was good to see faith in progressive playmaking and possession not just to sling crosses in and hope.
Carrick and Blind had the positional sense to read the attacks of Palace and either hassle and tackle or intercept their play and move the play sideways or forwards. Shaw and Valencia both put in good shifts and generally speaking marshalled their zones well enough to focus on going forward primarily. This allowed Fellaini to do the usual trick of drifting to the opposite side of the play to be a high ball target. Van Persie and Rooney were able drift around and albeit slowly, at least support attacking play. Wilson there for energy and movement. Mata brought more efficient use of the ball. Logical sense because there wasn't much physical threat from Palace today. It gave us the freedom to focus on our play.
It wasn't as pretty as the above principles sound but it got the job done today. In this world where we needed points urgently, job done and subs "worked".
Carrick and Blind had the positional sense to read the attacks of Palace and either hassle and tackle or intercept their play and move the play sideways or forwards. Shaw and Valencia both put in good shifts and generally speaking marshalled their zones well enough to focus on going forward primarily. This allowed Fellaini to do the usual trick of drifting to the opposite side of the play to be a high ball target. Van Persie and Rooney were able drift around and albeit slowly, at least support attacking play. Wilson there for energy and movement. Mata brought more efficient use of the ball. Logical sense because there wasn't much physical threat from Palace today. It gave us the freedom to focus on our play.
It wasn't as pretty as the above principles sound but it got the job done today. In this world where we needed points urgently, job done and subs "worked".
It looked like a pretty standard narrow 4-2-3-1 actually. 3 attacking mids instead of wingers. Fellaini was noticeably right next to Fletcher at the end rather then in front like that.I was a bit baffled with Wilson coming on for Di Maria, albeit him having a poor game, and then deciding to put Van Persie as a centre/attacking midfielder.
The lineup seemed to look like this at the end of the game:
De GeaHow's that for balance, Van Gaal?
Valencia - Carrick - Blind - Shaw
Fletcher
Mata - Fellaini - Van Persie - Rooney
Wilson
Another match totally changed by his shockingly baffling and poor substitutions. He's absolutely abject at making the right change at the right time. RVP off but the knackered Falcao stays on? Move Young to the right when he's tearing them apart on the left, so you can bring on an eighteen year-old who has done absolutely nothing worthwhile in his previous three appearances? Leave Mata on for the whole game when he was worse than invisible?
Exactly this. We were dominating until his changes. Very surprised.
He's been lucky so far. I don't trust him despite our six games won in a row.
Wilson was a needless and pointless sub. came on and did feck all
Why on earth take off your inform striker who was causing havoc with his movement on the 60 th minute? Shocking decision. Falcao had zero space when RvP went off because van Persie was dragging defenders everywhere.
Taking RVP off when we needed a goal is something I don't understand.
I was more concerned with who started than the subs. The first two were spot on, just the Wilson thing that was poor, switching young to the right was especially stupid.
Poor subs all around. His insistence to play the 3-5-2, even after we have a man advantage pissed me off. Taking Valencia off made no sense at all.
RVP change was strange to say the least, I thought he looked the most threatening out of all our attackers. It also came at a time when we were all over them.
This. Why start Fletcher when we know you going to sub him off at half time.
Taking Fletcher off was good. Taking off RVP was madness.
Baffling substitutions. Young to the right was weird too.
Yup, taking off RVP was pretty stupid there.
Totally killed our momentum. Villa were always going to put men behind the ball so what use was Di Maria's pace? Van Persie was perfect for this type of game with his clever movement.
So many stupid changes in one with Valencia off for Wilson. If he wanted Wilson on I would have taken off a CB and kept Young lb, Valencia rb and two of Evans/Jones/Blackett.
To be honest ADM did nothing. At least Valencia tried to break his fullback's shins and get corners.
And at least he's dangerous player inside the box, a useful player in these situations. LVG has (once again) made some poor changes.
First two subs where just what we needed and had an immediate impact, the third messed us up, moving Young to the right and wasting Di Maria on the left for Wilson who offers nothing.