Television Making a Murderer (Netflix Documentary) - Spoilers from Page 2

[CassiusClaymore]

Case is tore apart and the happens to be a hole in the top of it blood vial. Seriously, if this was a TV show people would be saying it's too stupid to be believable.

As for the brother, I was one of them cussing him out tbf. Obviously he's hurting but I felt how could he be so blind what with all the non evidence, inconsistencies etc. His post court pressers had me fuming.

Context is entirely different. We've just watched a clearly bias 10 hour documentary whereas he's sat through months of court trial evidence (some of which was obviously left out of this).

Added to which you want to think that the police have got the right people. Any rational human being would hope that.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

This specialist lawyer has just taken on Steven Avery's case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Zellner

She has an impressive history of overturning convictions listed on the wiki page.

 

[SteveJ]

The Zellner Law Firm is looking forward to adding Mr Avery to its long list of wrongful conviction exonerations.

Regardless of this specific case, the above seems to me to issue from all the wrong motivations. It's self-advertising, and also a grab for popular approval...and it makes the firm look as cheap, untrustworthy and limited as those defence lawyers who specialise in getting famous and wealthy drunk drivers unfairly off the hook.

 

[Brown Toothpick]

Regardless of this specific case, the above seems to me to issue from all the wrong motivations. It's self-advertising, and also a grab for popular approval...and it makes the firm look as cheap, untrustworthy and limited as those defence lawyers who specialise in getting famous and wealthy drunk drivers unfairly off the hook.

Maybe, but they are well known for it and made millions out of it.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

It's feckin scary and drives home the point to me that the law works for people who have money and fecks over those that don't. Just look at the difference in the quality of lawyers that Avery was able to get compared to Brendan.

The second point is the trial by media thing. It's fecked up. Impossible to get an unbiased jury. Best you can hope for is that they'll have the intelligence to look at the evidence and make an unbiased decision but then I can't imagine the average IQ in that state is much higher than Brendan's.

Agree with your first point, I kept thinking that if Brendan had had Avery's lawyers (who came across as excellent), he might have been more successful.

Though that brings me to the second point and the jury. Like you, I just can't believe that people would look at a case like this dispassionately and without bias. The noises coming out of the jury deliberations (initial count of 7 thinking he was not guilty, people that felt threatened) just gave the impression that he was fecked right from the start given the dynamics that must go on in such deliberations.

And yet I'm not sure he would have been better off with that judge (Fox, was it?), he came across as very hostile towards the defence also and kept throwing out motions that seemed extremely reasonable, to say the least.

Case is tore apart and the happens to be a hole in the top of it blood vial. Seriously, if this was a TV show people would be saying it's too stupid to be believable.

I thought that at one moment, I thought that if this had been a thriller of some kind, the Caf thread on it would have pages and pages about 'plotholes'

Regardless of this specific case, the above seems to me to issue from all the wrong motivations. It's self-advertising, and also a grab for popular approval...and it makes the firm look as cheap, untrustworthy and limited as those defence lawyers who specialise in getting famous and wealthy drunk drivers unfairly off the hook.

I don't agree. They're self promoting, sure, but they're self promoting on the basis of having wrongful convictions overturned. It may come across as crass to some, but seriously it's hardly a disgusting selling point to market.

 

[carpy]

If you have four hours to murder, a full video recording of Brendan Dassey's 'confession' has been leaked on YouTube. The first of three is below:

 

[SteveJ]

I don't agree and you're a twit

It's a fair cop, guv.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

It's a fair cop, guv.

 

[SteveJ]

I don't think I thought it through, chief. I was more-or-less railing against a firm of lawyers who'd already made their minds up about each case they take on - it was stupid & naive of me to expect them to be objective, as if they were a jury.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I don't think I thought it through, chief. I was more-or-less railing against a firm of lawyers who'd already made their minds up about each case they take on - it was stupid & naive of me to expect them to be objective, as if they were a jury.

You can be forgiven, lawyers are awful anyway.

 

[fergieisold]

I'm gonna make a stand and say spoilers are not needed

The cat thing was mentioned in the doc, and obviously there are alarm bells there. What stuff with his niece?

But now what I was alluding to is what Kratz has since come out and said was completely left out of the documentary.

Kratz?! That scumbag sexpest is pure evil. I wouldn't believe a word he says. He will manipulate and make evidence up for his own gain.

I felt chills reading your recollection of that scene with the licence plate. I don't understand how these monsters can get away with such atrocities. They should all be jailed for life.

That was incredible...so chilling the questions to Colburn.

"you weren't looking at these plates when you called them in?" and then "well you can understand how someone listening to that might think that you were calling in a license plate that you were looking at on the back end of a 1999 Toyota...but there's no way you should be looking at Theresa Hallbach's license plate on November 3 on the back end of a 1999 Toyota...because you're aware now that the first time that the Toyota was found, was 2 days later on November 5"

 

[Ivor Ballokov]

I did read somewhere that the vial would be expected to have a hole in the top as that is how they'd get the sample in. Not sure how true that is and it doesn't explain the case being opened but there we go.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Kratz has put links on his, hilariously low budge, website to the 'truth' behind the Avery case.

And its absolutely nothing, how he thinks its a smoking gun that the documentary makers deliberately misrepresented him is anyones guess.

 

[fergieisold]

I'm still open to Avery having done this but I think it's unlikely. I imagine it was someone in his immediate or extended family. It could even be her brother, her boyfriend or room mate. I mean they were very very odd at times. Her brother was an absolute dumbass throughout most of the documentary.

There's a great bit when he confidently proclaims Brendan's confession to be sound and a reporter asks him if he'd seen the ridiculous criminally obtained confession...to which he replies no! She then rolls her eyes behind his back haha.

 

[DatIrishFella]

I'm still open to Avery having done this but I think it's unlikely. I imagine it was someone in his immediate or extended family. It could even be her brother, her boyfriend or room mate. I mean they were very very odd at times. Her brother was an absolute dumbass throughout most of the documentary.

There's a great bit when he confidently proclaims Brendan's confession to be sound and a reporter asks him if he'd seen the ridiculous criminally obtained confession...to which he replies no! She then rolls her eyes behind his back haha.

The fact that Jim Lenk found the key and bullet, the bullet MONTHS after the garage was sweeped multiple times prior, for me, shows that Avery was framed. And that video it Colburn, feck it makes me so angry. Look at his demeanor when he gets called out, starts fidgeting with his hands.

 

[Sylar]

Thing with this is its upto the prosecutors to prove hes guilty and for the jury to think hes guilty without reasonable doubt.
However there were holes torn into this, there was a lot of doubt.

Given what weve seen (and yes its somewhat biased, but the documentary was meant to show a flaw in the system rather than just be about Avery,) it wouldnt surprise me if the jury had one or two "plants" who were there to be the ones to change the opinions of the rest. As has been said, put a bunch of people in a group to discuss things, the dominant ones will take charge and impose their opinions on others (and possibly sway them).

As has been said, Brendan got used and the way he was represented was quite sickening. That dick of a lawyer he first had looked like he was just happy to get on TV, get his name out there and didnt care what happened (plea bargain would be a win for him).

 

[dumbo]

I'm actually very suprised at how well this doc has stood up to claims of bias. All the apparantly 'vital' evidenc that was left out of the film, that I have seen so far, has ranged from the irrelevant to the down right idiotic, despite the hyperbolic claims.

Most of the rebuttals seem to centre around the Avery family being uneducated, poor as feck and uncouth, which if anything only support the film further.

 

[Bubz27]

I got my parents watching this now and naturally have watched bits and parts of it again while they are watching it. It really is ridiculous.

There have been moments after I watched the show where I've kind of doubted, hearing how its biased and evidence is missing etc.

The phone call to Judi on the day of the rape/murder of TH. Just a casual 15 minute phone call to his gf while he's in the middle of raping Theresa? And Theresa's DNA wasn't on the key, only Avery's? Come on.

There's just no way SA did this. And the kicker is even if SA gets out now, how many years of his life has he served in prison as an innocent man? There'll never be justice. Can just hope he gets out and gets enough money so he can go and enjoy the rest of his days away from people.

 

[Skizzo]

Is it just me that thinks Steven Avery's mum looks a bit like LVG?

It's all I could think about every time she was on screen. I kept meaning to ask that myself, but kept forgetting.

 

[Brwned]

I got my parents watching this now and naturally have watched bits and parts of it again while they are watching it. It really is ridiculous.

There have been moments after I watched the show where I've kind of doubted, hearing how its biased and evidence is missing etc.

The phone call to Judi on the day of the rape/murder of TH. Just a casual 15 minute phone call to his gf while he's in the middle of raping Theresa? And Theresa's DNA wasn't on the key, only Avery's? Come on.

There's just no way SA did this. And the kicker is even if SA gets out now, how many years of his life has he served in prison as an innocent man? There'll never be justice. Can just hope he gets out and gets enough money so he can go and enjoy the rest of his days away from people.

Yeah it's all so implausible.

• The key had no-one's DNA on it but Avery's, and it was discovered 3 days into the search by Lenk. The officer from Calumet County in the pre-trial specifically mentions there was no key there when it was checked, and then all of a sudden Jim Lenk comes up and there it is.
• There was blood in the car in three different spots but no fingerprints. So he wore gloves to hide the fingerprints but bled from some unidentified orifice, or he wore no gloves but meticulously cleaned up all of his fingerprints or simply never touched anything in the car (despite supposedly driving it a few metres)...but somehow missed the fact he was bleeding everywhere.
• They live on a scrap heap and had a machine cable of crushing cars, which he'd used countless times before, but instead decided to leave the car uncrushed and sitting on his property.
• He had an incinerator on the property but for some reason decided a much less effective bonfire to burn the remains.
• The evidence box was tampered with and the blood vial had a needle hole in the top of it...just by some bizarre coincidence
• She was brutally murdered but there was no evidence of her blood anywhere on the property, except in her car, despite there being a shitload of the Avery's DNA all over the place essentially proving they hadn't covered anything up.
• The simple fact Lenk and co. were even there is enough to arouse suspicion...unless they're insanely stupid, the only reason they'd go there is to make sure he's convicted because their very presence there only weakens the case.

He might well be guilty of something but he was obviously framed.

A friend in work watched the whole thing and said it was really boring...which I found pretty bizarre. It turns out he thought it was boring because he hadn't even considered he wasn't guilty. He was still on the fence about Brendan for christ's sake! It's unbelievable that someone could see all of the above things be pointed out in the documentary and still come to the conclusion he was guilty.

 

[shabz]

Yeah it's all so implausible.

• The key had no-one's DNA on it but Avery's, and it was discovered 3 days into the search by Lenk. The officer from Calumet County in the pre-trial specifically mentions there was no key there when it was checked, and then all of a sudden Jim Lenk comes up and there it is.
• There was blood in the car in three different spots but no fingerprints. So he wore gloves to hide the fingerprints but bled from some unidentified orifice, or he wore no gloves but meticulously cleaned up all of his fingerprints or simply never touched anything in the car (despite supposedly driving it a few metres)...but somehow missed the fact he was bleeding everywhere.
• They live on a scrap heap and had a machine cable of crushing cars, which he'd used countless times before, but instead decided to leave the car uncrushed and sitting on his property.
• He had an incinerator on the property but for some reason decided a much less effective bonfire to burn the remains.
• The evidence box was tampered with and the blood vial had a needle hole in the top of it...just by some bizarre coincidence
• She was brutally murdered but there was no evidence of her blood anywhere on the property, except in her car, despite there being a shitload of the Avery's DNA all over the place essentially proving they hadn't covered anything up.
• The simple fact Lenk and co. were even there is enough to arouse suspicion...unless they're insanely stupid, the only reason they'd go there is to make sure he's convicted because their very presence there only weakens the case.

He might well be guilty of something but he was obviously framed.

A friend in work watched the whole thing and said it was really boring...which I found pretty bizarre. It turns out he thought it was boring because he hadn't even considered he wasn't guilty. He was still on the fence about Brendan for christ's sake! It's unbelievable that someone could see all of the above things be pointed out in the documentary and still come to the conclusion he was guilty.

He is related to Kratz.

 

[Sylar]

If you read online, some people are saying hes defo guilty cos of the confession by Brendan and it proves the guilt.

seriously. :/

 

[Snow]

I don't think I thought it through, chief. I was more-or-less railing against a firm of lawyers who'd already made their minds up about each case they take on - it was stupid & naive of me to expect them to be objective, as if they were a jury.

I think it's a bit naïve of you to think that a jury would be objective.

If you read online, some people are saying hes defo guilty cos of the confession by Brendan and it proves the guilt.

seriously. :/

Probably that dead girl's stupid faced brother.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Just watched it and thought it was amazing. I feel so sorry for Brendan... He seems like the type of kid that believes wrestling is still real

His lawyer was the biggest dick in my opinion along with Kratz.

And I really wanted to punch the dead girls brother that cnut.

P.s. the female reporter was hot.

 

[Keenst]

The justice system is totally flawed. Imagine you were accused of a serious crime by a wealthy claimant, a crime which you didn't do, but you couldn't afford a decent lawyer.. It's a scary thought.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

They dragged Brendan into it to use him as a witness against Steven, then in the end had to disregard him as a witness as well as all his statements in that case. So in effect he went to prison for no reason.

 

[Sylar]

Speaking of the brother, a few days after,most family members (if not all) would be talking about hoping to see them back / hoping to find them / hoping by some miracle they are still alive. He was already talking about the grieving process and how long it may take (like he already knew the outcome).

Dont get me wrong, id never want to be in his position, but he sure acted like he was happy to be in front of the camera (was he the one that talked about the confession as proof, and then admitted he hadnt seen it when asked?)

Also:

"When tragedy struck in my personal life, I used the experience gained through classes in my interaction with the media to serve as a springboard for greater goals during difficult times"

http://www.uwgb.edu/clampitp/phils site/internet_broadcast/mike.html

 

[crappycraperson]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...defense_information_that_was_left_out_of_mam/

The more and more I read about this case, the more convinced I become of Avery's innocence.

 

[crappycraperson]

Surprised by Fox news stance on this. They seemed to be leaning towards the innocent side much more.

 

[DatIrishFella]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...defense_information_that_was_left_out_of_mam/

The more and more I read about this case, the more convinced I become of Avery's innocence.

I must stop frequenting this thread as it makes me angrier and angrier!

 

[crappycraperson]

They dragged Brendan into it to use him as a witness against Steven, then in the end had to disregard him as a witness as well as all his statements in that case. So in effect he went to prison for no reason.

They used him to poison the jury pool

 

[crappycraperson]

• The defense eliminated as many problematic jurors as the law allowed, but they still ended up with a MCSD sheriff's father and a county clerk's husband. http://www.people.com/article/steven-avery-juror-says-two-jurors-related-county-employees

How can the judge allow such people on the jury?

 

[JackXX]

 

[Sylar]

• The defense eliminated as many problematic jurors as the law allowed, but they still ended up with a MCSD sheriff's father and a county clerk's husband. http://www.people.com/article/steven-avery-juror-says-two-jurors-related-county-employees

How can the judge allow such people on the jury?

Judge probably in on it too.

 

[buckooo1978]

How hot was that brunette reporter.....

 

[Stookie]

Just finished watching this. Some of the most powerful tv I've seen for ages. My heart goes out to Brendan. How can they not give him a retrial after that evidence was reviewed. Made me angry.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

I wonder if he ever got to see Wrestlemania?

 

[dumbo]

Such a funny but heartbreaking moment.

 

[Burrow]

I've never been as infuriated as I was when watching this show! The entire town should be ashamed..

 

[Rooney24]

The Dna thing with the key !

Just amazed how they can overlook that and think some suspicious hasn't happened.

Crazy in fact