Manchester City 17/18 discussion | "If you're here for the Champions clap your hands" (#6505)

[SwansonsTache]

I think City would consider themselves fortunate were they to hold to Pep for a further 4 years, such is his stature within the game.

PSG are already sniffing around from what I hear.

What is the point for Pep to switch to another oil-funded club, but just in a less prestigious and interesting league?

No one will notice if he wins the French league, and he will be deemed a failure without the CL, at City he will be just fine with only league medals.

 

[Vialli_92]

What is the point for Pep to switch to another oil-funded club, but just in a less prestigious and interesting league?

No one will notice if he wins the French league, and he will be deemed a failure without the CL, at City he will be just fine with only league medals.

I don't think Pep is in management to please other people

 

[esmufc07]

Top 5 is plausible... but you can surely see why United fans would be miffed (even a tad annoyed) by any talk of GOATness at this point? Considering we’ve won three back to back titles, twice, since the turn of the century. Both whilst also winning the Champions League. Not to mention the two back to back titles and two doubles we won in the decade before.

So if football does indeed get better with age, and remember the good as great, and the great as imperious...Then how are those achievements even debatably comparable with this 2/3rds of a City season? That won’t be invincible, can’t be a Treble, and hasn’t even matched our largest leadership gap yet? *

You can see why that opinion would seem super weird & short sighted to any Utd fan over about 12, yeah? Especially to those of us who remember Mourinho’s Chelsea side breaking the points record being seen as irrefutable evidence that the very idea of competition in football was over for at least the next twenty years. And how that went.

Of the 2 and a bit decades United have dominated this League, which titles do you remember most? Is it the ones where we ran away with the title and regularly thrashed our rivals? Like 2001, when we beat our closest competitors 6-1 and won it by 16 points? Remember that? Or maybe it was 2000? Where we won by a still held record of 18 points*? Presumably by defulat the PL’s greatest ever team by your metric, no?

Or is what you actually remember, the Treble winners? (Whose title went right down to the last day.) Or the 2008 “Roo & Ron” Double winners? (Who also went to the last day) or perhaps the 1996 “don’t win anything with kids!” Double winners? (Last day again. And after an epic, unlikely, 12 point overhaul.) Or maybe even the Cantona inspired ‘94 double winners? (An utterly dominant season of era defining sexy football, still won with only two games to spare)...

Point being, sure, City are a great side atm, no question. But football posterity remembers drama, romance and narrative more than dominance and statistics. So even if you win by 30 points in the end, it’ll still be less of a deal to most than the “Aguerooooooo!” season (especially if it’s just the one)...because that’s what really gets better with age. And a side with no competition, little youth or English connection, and no wider historical or redemptive narrative to speak of (and a manger who’ll always be more associated with his homegrown success at Barca) is not a side that I’d bet heavily on making a truly massive dent in the public consciousness, beyond a grudging concession that “yeah, that team we’re alright that year”...

And we should know, because we’ve had several dominant sides before. Sides that have won the League by even more points than you’re on course to. And the fact no one seems to remember it, speaks to just how unspectacularly history remembers those kind of seasons. Even when you’re Manchester United.

Of course, if you win the CL in a blaze of glory, that’ll start to build a legend. But anything less will leave a debatable legacy IMO. Because (and I hope this doesn’t come across as bias or bitter, because I genuinely don’t think it is) aside from KBD, and being undoubtedly very good, I can’t think of anything that’s actually very interesting about this side. Narrative wise, I mean. There’s no story there. It’s just a really good, well assembled side. Perhaps Sterling on a mild redemptive arc?

Oh yes.

 

[Shy_Coconut]

What is the point for Pep to switch to another oil-funded club, but just in a less prestigious and interesting league?

No one will notice if he wins the French league, and he will be deemed a failure without the CL, at City he will be just fine with only league medals.

Mansour isn't pumping Billions into City to just compete for the PL. The CL has always been the end game. By all accounts, with the amount spent, he would have expected to have already achieved PL dominance. Pep was being brought in to finish the project by dominating in Europe. They are behind schedule though.

Pep has already said he wants to manage in other leagues. A position at PSG is the next logical step. It's the only club he can go to where he will have a head start on the rest of the teams in the league & an unlimited budget.

Will be interesting to see how he's judged if he leaves City without winning the CL. If he does, this will be both Bayern & City where he has failed to hit his target. Will the facade then start to slip.

 

[royboy16]

Are you serious?

Serious about what ? That City could dominate for 5 years ? Yes its possible,If Pep sticks around and has plenty of financial backing why not,they have a good young team.

 

[royboy16]

He was joking, I hope you were too.

Oh I thought he was serious,too early in the morning for white text

 

[Random Task]

What is the point for Pep to switch to another oil-funded club, but just in a less prestigious and interesting league?

No one will notice if he wins the French league, and he will be deemed a failure without the CL, at City he will be just fine with only league medals.

Given the exorbitant amount of money that City's owners have invested in to the club, surely winning the CL will be smack bang at the top of the list priorities. A Premier League title may suffice for this season, but I'd expect The Sheikh to be upping the anti for the following season and thereafter.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

The Sane goal yesterday was brilliant and quintessential Pep football. The insistence and ability to still play the short passing game while being pressured is delightful to watch, just wish it was someone else playing it than City.

 

[breakout67]

City are already out of contention for best team. People have the habit of placing non united teams in their top lists because it would be boring to not do so. The reality is that the best 2-3 best teams in PL history are united teams, with the treble winning team at the top.

City would have to win the PL, CL double to even be considered. Even then they would have to retain the PL after a PL, CL double to be serious contenders.

Unless City do something unprecedented like two PL, CL doubles in a row, or win the treble next year they aren't even close.

 

[PepsiCola]

Nah it wouldn't, i favor us in a two legged tie, unless ofc referees intervene.

I'm sure Mourinho would have a good game plan. I just don't trust our defence- especially over two legs.

 

[Thisistheone]

Arsenal 04 didn't win back to back anything, two trophies in 3 seasons.

Going the whole PL season unbeaten is remarkable though. And 2 titles in 3 years is exceptional going when you consider they were up against that great Utd side.

 

[SER19]

You come into a thread constantly being a (mostly harmless) wum and dishing out banter (which is usually quite funny). Don't cry now over two harmless comments back. Smug me arse.

Its only football banter don't get too upset over it.

Aaaaaaaaaand smug

Understandable though, you don’t have enough experience not to get giddy with leading.

 

[padr81]

Aaaaaaaaaand smug

Understandable though, you don’t have enough experience not to get giddy with leading.

Its not smug at all, just because you can give it but can't take it doesn't make it so. If you're going to get narky about someone saying pot noodle you should probably grow some thick skin my friend.

 

[padr81]

Going the whole PL season unbeaten is remarkable though. And 2 titles in 3 years is exceptional going when you consider they were up against that great Utd side.

Its a good feat but that doesn't make it a great team, isn't that the very logic used against city? Multiple titles and a cl.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

Zzzzz.... City fans getting more cock sure in every thread. Do you not have yellow ribbons to tie up and hand out?

The transparent smugness of fans of the team who's finally managed to buy another title. Nice to see them being spread out among the likes of Leicester and city now and then, rubbish when the big dogs always win.

I take it that you were multiscreening, maybe watching a rerun of post 2010 United, while composing your usual blinkered whine hence your struggle to stay awake?
Rather than Big Dogs United currently remind me of a stag that was head of the herd for years but is now facing a serious challenge from a smart newcomer with the strength to match the rival and a burning desire to take the old boy's place. The old stag has seen off challenges in the past but all good things come to and end eventually and even the rival will be toppled one day.

You would normally not see a more diffident set of fans than City's but when we have the opportunity to remind the more arrogant posters on here of how the obstacles that were bound to trip us up have now been negotiated and that we can find, attract and keep top players without the need to be paying record transfer fees and wages due as much to impressive governance from the top down, then I think a bit of temporary smugness is forgivable.
There are more targets ahead to achieve. CL progress, retaining domestic titles, using homegrown players more are all things that need to be addressed. The succession when Pep leaves (probably about 2021 IMO) will be another huge decision for the club to make. United cocked up the post Ferguson handover, City must learn from that lesson.

 

[Thisistheone]

Its a good feat but that doesn't make it a great team, isn't that the very logic used against city? Multiple titles and a cl.

Of course that Arsenal side was a great team. Bergkamp, Henry, Vieira, Pires, Cole, Campbell etc. They have a catalogue of work which Pep's City haven't matched, for the time being. I suspect you'll top them in the coming years though if you carry on like this.

I was asked for 5 better PL sides so I gave the ones that instantly come to mind. Arsenal deserve to be in the mix of the best sides. They might fall short of the best Utd teams but they're still above this City side right now.

 

[bosnian_red]

Yes and no, and as always it's a matter of perspective. I loved some of the City teams of the past but if I am honest, they would get hammered by WBA if they were around today. This City side would blow away any team I have ever seen in English football. However that is partially a function of the ever improving game.

Have to completely disagree here. You're playing great football this season but bollocks to they would blow away any other team in English football. United from 2007-2009 was still on a different level. I'd wager that Mourinhos Chelsea with their terrific defence could shut them out, though that would be a tight one between a difference and top offence. United from 2007-09 won 3 premier league titles, semi finalists of the CL in 2007 (unlucky to get knocked out in the end largely due to injuries crippling us in the return leg of the semis), won it in 2008, runners up to Barcelona in 2009 (a game which was probably their most even big game in probably that 3 year spell of dominance of probably the best ever side and light years ahead of this City side because of Iniesta, Xavi and Messi), and 3 consecutive seasons of dominance both on the European scale and premier league level. We were undoubtedly the team to beat and had as complete a team as anyone could hope. An unstoppable attacking force, and the best defensive unit in the world, with the greatest manager of all time. They were so good that we lost fecking Ronaldo and still dominated, being 1 point from winning the league in 09/10 and being unlucky to not go further in the CL, then the next year winning the title comfortably and making the CL final.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I take it that you were multiscreening, maybe watching a rerun of post 2010 United, while composing your usual blinkered whine hence your struggle to stay awake?
Rather than Big Dogs United currently remind me of a stag that was head of the herd for years but is now facing a serious challenge from a smart newcomer with the strength to match the rival and a burning desire to take the old boy's place. The old stag has seen off challenges in the past but all good things come to and end eventually and even the rival will be toppled one day.

You would normally not see a more diffident set of fans than City's but when we have the opportunity to remind the more arrogant posters on here of how the obstacles that were bound to trip us up have now been negotiated and that we can find, attract and keep top players without the need to be paying record transfer fees and wages due as much to impressive governance from the top down, then I think a bit of temporary smugness is forgivable.
There are more targets ahead to achieve. CL progress, retaining domestic titles, using homegrown players more are all things that need to be addressed. The succession when Pep leaves (probably about 2021 IMO) will be another huge decision for the club to make. United cocked up the post Ferguson handover, City must learn from that lesson.

City have spent more money than any other team in history to get were they are now. United's wage bill in 2017 was £265m and City's was £244m.

Where on earth are you getting this idea that you don't spend big on transfers and wages from?

 

[Scarecrow]

Going the whole PL season unbeaten is remarkable though. And 2 titles in 3 years is exceptional going when you consider they were up against that great Utd side.

As far as great Untied sides go, this one has to be pretty low. Those were our transition years.

 

[bosnian_red]

Dude, they are not Leicester - and certainly no Liverpool where Salah is scoring every single game to win games. City are a machine compared to them and I see no reason why it won't continue in the same way, or even better, as long as they keep Pep and his style.

Because football doesn't work like that. Retaining success is among the hardest things in football, and why it took so long for a team to win back to back champions league titles in its current format. Peps Barcelona, arguably the greatest ever club side, couldn't win back to back champions league titles. Real Madrid won 3 champions league titles in the last 4 years, yet only won 1 league title in that time. Mourinhos Chelsea managed 2 terrific seasons, and then couldn't continue. Then he won it again in 2015 and then collapsed next year. City have never managed to retain it, despite their spending. Motivation plays such a big part in football. This year City were motivated as they haven't won anything in a while. They needed to come good. And they did. How many times have we seen city go back to being shite the next year? Obviously they could well win it and are favorites to do so, but it won't be as easy and I highly doubt they'll be able to replicate this season, both in goals scored, and total points. If, and it's a big if, they do manage to retain the title playing great football, only then do they enter the discussion of the greatest sides. And they're still only around Chelsea 05-06 level, with 2 titles. They need a Champions league title to elevate them to being compared to the treble winners... and then a 3rd season of dominance in succession to be compared to United 2007-2009 side. 3 premier league titles. 1 Champions league title, 1 CL runner up (to the arguably best side ever), 1 semi final. That side is just so far ahead of any other at the moment, they have to match that success to even be considered. 2 years with 2 champions league titles, or 3 premier league titles and 1 CL title and other good performances in it and they're on the same level basically. But that's incredibly unlikely.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

I think Pogba is the kinda player who would irritate Guardiola easily with him thinking he is a superstar or something and Guardiola requiring the same mindset from everyone.

It'll be interesting to see how he gets on with Mendy who's not really cast from the same mould as most of City's squad.
When he returns to action he'll have to buckle down and concentrate on his game and less on being a social media junkie.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

City have spent more money than any other team in history to get were they are now. United's wage bill in 2017 was £265m and City's was £244m.

Where on earth are you getting this idea that you don't spend big on transfers and wages from?

Not doing this again. The subject has been done to death.
Suffice to say that most of our best players were obtained for fees that reflected the market value at the time and ,although there have been some clunkers, most of the signings can be justified.
We don't pay Neymar level fees or Sanchez level wages at the moment but obviously may have to one day for a world superstar player.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

Mansour isn't pumping Billions into City to just compete for the PL. The CL has always been the end game. By all accounts, with the amount spent, he would have expected to have already achieved PL dominance. Pep was being brought in to finish the project by dominating in Europe. They are behind schedule though.

Pep has already said he wants to manage in other leagues. A position at PSG is the next logical step. It's the only club he can go to where he will have a head start on the rest of the teams in the league & an unlimited budget.

Will be interesting to see how he's judged if he leaves City without winning the CL. If he does, this will be both Bayern & City where he has failed to hit his target. Will the facade then start to slip.

Fraudiola lite?
What's your views on United the team you purport to support? Nobody on here is any the wiser.

 

[gibers]

Of course that Arsenal side was a great team. Bergkamp, Henry, Vieira, Pires, Cole, Campbell etc. They have a catalogue of work which Pep's City haven't matched, for the time being. I suspect you'll top them in the coming years though if you carry on like this.

I was asked for 5 better PL sides so I gave the ones that instantly come to mind. Arsenal deserve to be in the mix of the best sides. They might fall short of the best Utd teams but they're still above this City side right now.

This City side are on course to break the best single season records in EPl history. Most goals and most points and most wins. Statistically they will be the best side. The rest is all down to what you cherish. If they do that and do the treble then for me they are the best side in EPl history.

For now, they are one the way to. Haven't won anything yet

 

[Problem-free Philosophy]

Fraudiola lite?
What's your views on United the team you purport to support? Nobody on here is any the wiser.

Any 'Fraudiola' accusations are going to be difficult to shed after last season. He had easily one of the best squads in the league but not the out and out best squad in the league. The result? Scraped 3rd - a fairly distant one at that - and won nothing whatsoever. He then spends his way to, by some distance, the best squad in the league and - would you believe it?! - he's winning things again. Astounding. It's the whole basis of the 'fraud' argument and if anything has been proved further, regardless of whether it's ultimately completely irrelevant.

Coconut's point is a good one, so why not discuss those points instead of delivering a sarcastic comment and an attempt to change the subject to United in a thread for discussing Man City?

 

[gibers]

Any 'Fraudiola' accusations are going to be difficult to shed after last season. He had easily one of the best squads in the league but not the out and out best squad in the league. The result? Scraped 3rd - a fairly distant one at that - and won nothing whatsoever. He then spends his way to, by some distance, the best squad in the league and - would you believe it?! - he's winning things again. Astounding. It's the whole basis of the 'fraud' argument and if anything has been proved further, regardless of whether it's ultimately completely irrelevant.

Coconut's point is a good one, so why not discuss those points instead of delivering a sarcastic comment and an attempt to change the subject to United in a thread for discussing Man City?

City created the most goal scoring chances last year and conceded the 2nd or 3rd chances iirrc. The problem last year was thier finishing. Yea best squad, Yaya and Fbs that could barely move.

They came 4th barely the season beforehand on goal difference.

The difference this season is that the team actually finish chances and also the players have all improved. Only Walker and Ederson are the regular starters that werent there last season.

Are you going to sit there and tell me that both those players are the main reason City are on course to break the goal scoring record and Epl points total?


No other coach can do what Pep is doing. The system is the main player.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Top 5 is plausible... but you can surely see why United fans would be miffed (even a tad annoyed) by any talk of GOATness at this point? Considering we’ve won three back to back titles, twice, since the turn of the century. Both whilst also winning the Champions League. Not to mention the two back to back titles and two doubles we won in the decade before.

So if football does indeed get better with age, and remember the good as great, and the great as imperious...Then how are those achievements even debatably comparable with this 2/3rds of a City season? That won’t be invincible, can’t be a Treble, and hasn’t even matched our largest leadership gap yet? *

You can see why that opinion would seem super weird & short sighted to any Utd fan over about 12, yeah? Especially to those of us who remember Mourinho’s Chelsea side breaking the points record being seen as irrefutable evidence that the very idea of competition in football was over for at least the next twenty years. And how that went.

Of the 2 and a bit decades United have dominated this League, which titles do you remember most? Is it the ones where we ran away with the title and regularly thrashed our rivals? Like 2001, when we beat our closest competitors 6-1 and won it by 16 points? Remember that? Or maybe it was 2000? Where we won by a still held record of 18 points*? Presumably by defulat the PL’s greatest ever team by your metric, no?

Or is what you actually remember, the Treble winners? (Whose title went right down to the last day.) Or the 2008 “Roo & Ron” Double winners? (Who also went to the last day) or perhaps the 1996 “don’t win anything with kids!” Double winners? (Last day again. And after an epic, unlikely, 12 point overhaul.) Or maybe even the Cantona inspired ‘94 double winners? (An utterly dominant season of era defining sexy football, still won with only two games to spare)...

Point being, sure, City are a great side atm, no question. But football posterity remembers drama, romance and narrative more than dominance and statistics. So even if you win by 30 points in the end, it’ll still be less of a deal to most than the “Aguerooooooo!” season (especially if it’s just the one)...because that’s what really gets better with age. And a side with no competition, little youth or English connection, and no wider historical or redemptive narrative to speak of (and a manger who’ll always be more associated with his homegrown success at Barca) is not a side that I’d bet heavily on making a truly massive dent in the public consciousness, beyond a grudging concession that “yeah, that team we’re alright that year”...

And we should know, because we’ve had several dominant sides before. Sides that have won the League by even more points than you’re on course to. And the fact no one seems to remember it, speaks to just how unspectacularly history remembers those kind of seasons. Even when you’re Manchester United.

Of course, if you win the CL in a blaze of glory, that’ll start to build a legend. But anything less will leave a debatable legacy IMO. Because (and I hope this doesn’t come across as bias or bitter, because I genuinely don’t think it is) aside from KBD, and being undoubtedly very good, I can’t think of anything that’s actually very interesting about this side. Narrative wise, I mean. There’s no story there. It’s just a really good, well assembled side. Perhaps Sterling on a mild redemptive arc?

Brilliant post.

 

[adexkola]

If, and it's a big if, they do manage to retain the title playing great football, only then do they enter the discussion of the greatest sides.

If we're discussing single-season achievements, then no one needs to wait for 2 years to rank this City sides against other sides from the past. In a few years the discussion of the overall legacy of this City side can be debated, but otherwise, as I've said before, it's fair to compare 07/08 United vs 03/04 Arsenal, without looking at the overall context of what was achieved over 3-5 years.

 

[gibers]

Top 5 is plausible... but you can surely see why United fans would be miffed (even a tad annoyed) by any talk of GOATness at this point? Considering we’ve won three back to back titles, twice, since the turn of the century. Both whilst also winning the Champions League. Not to mention the two back to back titles and two doubles we won in the decade before.

So if football does indeed get better with age, and remember the good as great, and the great as imperious...Then how are those achievements even debatably comparable with this 2/3rds of a City season? That won’t be invincible, can’t be a Treble, and hasn’t even matched our largest leadership gap yet? *

You can see why that opinion would seem super weird & short sighted to any Utd fan over about 12, yeah? Especially to those of us who remember Mourinho’s Chelsea side breaking the points record being seen as irrefutable evidence that the very idea of competition in football was over for at least the next twenty years. And how that went.

Of the 2 and a bit decades United have dominated this League, which titles do you remember most? Is it the ones where we ran away with the title and regularly thrashed our rivals? Like 2001, when we beat our closest competitors 6-1 and won it by 16 points? Remember that? Or maybe it was 2000? Where we won by a still held record of 18 points*? Presumably by defulat the PL’s greatest ever team by your metric, no?

Or is what you actually remember, the Treble winners? (Whose title went right down to the last day.) Or the 2008 “Roo & Ron” Double winners? (Who also went to the last day) or perhaps the 1996 “don’t win anything with kids!” Double winners? (Last day again. And after an epic, unlikely, 12 point overhaul.) Or maybe even the Cantona inspired ‘94 double winners? (An utterly dominant season of era defining sexy football, still won with only two games to spare)...

Point being, sure, City are a great side atm, no question. But football posterity remembers drama, romance and narrative more than dominance and statistics. So even if you win by 30 points in the end, it’ll still be less of a deal to most than the “Aguerooooooo!” season (especially if it’s just the one)...because that’s what really gets better with age. And a side with no competition, little youth or English connection, and no wider historical or redemptive narrative to speak of (and a manger who’ll always be more associated with his homegrown success at Barca) is not a side that I’d bet heavily on making a truly massive dent in the public consciousness, beyond a grudging concession that “yeah, that team we’re alright that year”...

And we should know, because we’ve had several dominant sides before. Sides that have won the League by even more points than you’re on course to. And the fact no one seems to remember it, speaks to just how unspectacularly history remembers those kind of seasons. Even when you’re Manchester United.

Of course, if you win the CL in a blaze of glory, that’ll start to build a legend. But anything less will leave a debatable legacy IMO. Because (and I hope this doesn’t come across as bias or bitter, because I genuinely don’t think it is) aside from KBD, and being undoubtedly very good, I can’t think of anything that’s actually very interesting about this side. Narrative wise, I mean. There’s no story there. It’s just a really good, well assembled side. Perhaps Sterling on a mild redemptive arc?

If they the break the goal scoring record and the points record then they would have had the best single season in history of the the epl. If they reach 100 points they will be imoortalised as the only side to ever do it. If they win the CL and achieve all those I can't think of a better single season especially if all the other EPl sides make the QF and SF.

The way they play is also a standout. No team in the EPl has ever played like this before.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

Any 'Fraudiola' accusations are going to be difficult to shed after last season. He had easily one of the best squads in the league but not the out and out best squad in the league. The result? Scraped 3rd - a fairly distant one at that - and won nothing whatsoever. He then spends his way to, by some distance, the best squad in the league and - would you believe it?! - he's winning things again. Astounding. It's the whole basis of the 'fraud' argument and if anything has been proved further, regardless of whether it's ultimately completely irrelevant.

Coconut's point is a good one, so why not discuss those points instead of delivering a sarcastic comment and an attempt to change the subject to United in a thread for discussing Man City?

Pep and Mourinho started at the same time. Both have spent plenty.
One has overhauled the squad, reducing the average age of its members considerably, is now starting to accumulate trophies and looks likely to add to them for the foreseeable future while playing a brand of football that is the talk of the town among the media.
The other one is Jose Mourinho.

My comment to "Coconut" is reserved specifically for him as he has plenty of previous for obsessively posting anti-City posts and nothing else. He's been banned by the mods several times already but like a weed in the garden keeps springing up again.

 

[Amar__]

Serious about what ? That City could dominate for 5 years ? Yes its possible,If Pep sticks around and has plenty of financial backing why not,they have a good young team.

Winning 5 CL and league titles?

 

[royboy16]

Winning 5 CL and league titles?

No,dominating the league.

 

[Neuron]

Redcafe turning into Bluemoon.

So. Much. Bitterness.

Relax everyone. City are great. It's okay. Shh. Everything's gonna be okay.

 

[Manchester Dan]

Top 5 is plausible... but you can surely see why United fans would be miffed (even a tad annoyed) by any talk of GOATness at this point? Considering we’ve won three back to back titles, twice, since the turn of the century. Both whilst also winning the Champions League. Not to mention the two back to back titles and two doubles we won in the decade before.

So if football does indeed get better with age, and remember the good as great, and the great as imperious...Then how are those achievements even debatably comparable with this 2/3rds of a City season? That won’t be invincible, can’t be a Treble, and hasn’t even matched our largest leadership gap yet? *

You can see why that opinion would seem super weird & short sighted to any Utd fan over about 12, yeah? Especially to those of us who remember Mourinho’s Chelsea side breaking the points record being seen as irrefutable evidence that the very idea of competition in football was over for at least the next twenty years. And how that went.

Of the 2 and a bit decades United have dominated this League, which titles do you remember most? Is it the ones where we ran away with the title and regularly thrashed our rivals? Like 2001, when we beat our closest competitors 6-1 and won it by 16 points? Remember that? Or maybe it was 2000? Where we won by a still held record of 18 points*? Presumably by defulat the PL’s greatest ever team by your metric, no?

Or is what you actually remember, the Treble winners? (Whose title went right down to the last day.) Or the 2008 “Roo & Ron” Double winners? (Who also went to the last day) or perhaps the 1996 “don’t win anything with kids!” Double winners? (Last day again. And after an epic, unlikely, 12 point overhaul.) Or maybe even the Cantona inspired ‘94 double winners? (An utterly dominant season of era defining sexy football, still won with only two games to spare)...

Point being, sure, City are a great side atm, no question. But football posterity remembers drama, romance and narrative more than dominance and statistics. So even if you win by 30 points in the end, it’ll still be less of a deal to most than the “Aguerooooooo!” season (especially if it’s just the one)...because that’s what really gets better with age. And a side with no competition, little youth or English connection, and no wider historical or redemptive narrative to speak of (and a manger who’ll always be more associated with his homegrown success at Barca) is not a side that I’d bet heavily on making a truly massive dent in the public consciousness, beyond a grudging concession that “yeah, that team we’re alright that year”...

And we should know, because we’ve had several dominant sides before. Sides that have won the League by even more points than you’re on course to. And the fact no one seems to remember it, speaks to just how unspectacularly history remembers those kind of seasons. Even when you’re Manchester United.

Of course, if you win the CL in a blaze of glory, that’ll start to build a legend. But anything less will leave a debatable legacy IMO. Because (and I hope this doesn’t come across as bias or bitter, because I genuinely don’t think it is) aside from KBD, and being undoubtedly very good, I can’t think of anything that’s actually very interesting about this side. Narrative wise, I mean. There’s no story there. It’s just a really good, well assembled side. Perhaps Sterling on a mild redemptive arc?

I agree with a lot you’ve said in that post to be fair, football will always remember drama over dominance. Absolutely. I always look back to the 11/12 season over the 13/14 in recent memory. It’s just not very relevant to the original question that was initially asked.

People will always have a difference of opinion to the best side ever in PL history, because context is everything. To some the invincibles will be the greatest side, to others the treble winning side based on trophies alone, to others again the Chelsea side of record points. I’m of the view that any side that breaks that record will become part of the discussion, and would become one of my 5 top teams in a discussion that can only possibly include 26 teams come the end of the season.

 

[red4ever 79]

Was just watching their training drills in doors keeping the ball up in the air against the wall and rotating. Simple, yet wonderful to watch

 

[padr81]

Of course that Arsenal side was a great team. Bergkamp, Henry, Vieira, Pires, Cole, Campbell etc. They have a catalogue of work which Pep's City haven't matched, for the time being. I suspect you'll top them in the coming years though if you carry on like this.

I was asked for 5 better PL sides so I gave the ones that instantly come to mind. Arsenal deserve to be in the mix of the best sides. They might fall short of the best Utd teams but they're still above this City side right now.

They were a great team but trophy wise they were patchy. On their day frightening but history shows 1 league title in 3 years plus an fa cup. In the season before and after invincibles united pretty much dominated them and it wasn't one of Ferguson's best sides.

Thus city side have miles to go but imhi the invincibles was a great season but a couple of Ferguson teams and José Chelsea were far superior. Even the current Chelsea who went 1st, 9th,1st were better in terms of winning the league.

 

[gibers]

They were a great team but trophy wise they were patchy. On their day frightening but history shows 1 league title in 3 years plus an fa cup. In the season before and after invincibles united pretty much dominated them and it wasn't one of Ferguson's best sides.

Thus city side have miles to go but imhi the invincibles was a great season but a couple of Ferguson teams and José Chelsea were far superior. Even the current Chelsea who went 1st, 9th,1st were better in terms of winning the league.

Spot on. The invicibles are too romanticised.

 

[adexkola]

This is why I dismissed Neville's Sunday's histrionics as... histrionics. The ease with which City shred Arsenal's attempt to press the ball winner is frightening. They're just really good at finding the open man in space, creating overloads.

You either press in an organized manner (the way Klopp did against City at Anfield) or just park the bus once City get the ball, and wait for them to lose the ball before you break (us against City at OT). Anything in between is just suicide.

 

[kouroux]

It'll be interesting to see how he gets on with Mendy who's not really cast from the same mould as most of City's squad.
When he returns to action he'll have to buckle down and concentrate on his game and less on being a social media junkie.

Yeah but I don't doubt Mendy. He's crazy off the field but on the field he gets nothing but praise from all his managers in term of what they demand

 

[gibers]

This is why I dismissed Neville's Sunday's histrionics as... histrionics. The ease with which City shred Arsenal's attempt to press the ball winner is frightening. They're just really good at finding the open man in space, creating overloads.

You either press in an organized manner (the way Klopp did against City at Anfield) or just park the bus once City get the ball, and wait for them to lose the ball before you break (us against City at OT). Anything in between is just suicide.

But I thought Pep couldn't impose his style on the mighty EPl?